[Z28x]

If the Shelby Cobra comes out, will it hold back the performance of the SVT Cobra?

THe Ford GT is 500HP and $140K and rumors have it that if the Shelby Cobra is built it will cost about the same as a Viper ($83K). Since it would be cheaper, I would also expext it to have less HP than Fords Flagship car the GT(40). THe same then could probably be said for the SVT Mustang Cobra, Ford wouldn't want the $35K SVT Cobra to be as fast as an $80K Shelby Cobra.

If the Shelby is built then we might get a Ford line up that looks like this:
Ford GT = 500HP
Shelby Cobra = 460HP
SVT Cobra = 425HP

or if the final production Ford GT HP goes up, thanks to the new twin screw s/c it now has, we might see.

Ford GT = 550HP
Shelby Cobra = 500HP
SVT Cobra = 450HP

It seems like for us Mustang fans it would be better if the Shelby isn't built, Then we could get a higher HP Cobra, What do you guys think?

[Rootus]

I'm betting that the Cobra will have nearly the same drivetrain as the 03/04, with maybe a touch more power (or even just a more correct horsepower rating, with no change at all to the power). And I think this would be a GOOD THING. The Mustang has never been a high-end car, it's about bang for the buck. If Ford wants to compete with the Vette, they should do as Chevy does and create a car for the purpose (read: Shelby Cobra ). I would like an '06 Cobra myself, but only if they keep it in the same price range... if it jumps to $45k for a coupe, I will just get a GT.

Dave

[Azul93GT]

I don't see that the new Shelby Cobra roadster will hurt SVT Cobra Mustang development. The Shelby Cobra roadster is going in a different direction than the Ford GT(40) and the SVT Cobra in that it purportedly will have the an N/A V10. Regardless if the Shelby Cobra roadster is produced I think for the forseeable future the factory ceiling for SVT Cobra HP will be around 450HP, which to me seems like plenty.

[Ron Jeremy]

I could care less. The Shelby Cobra is an ugly rounded ball of $hit. It doesn't look like the older Shelby Cobra of the 60's. Ford should be ashamed to built a $hitball car like the Cobra. Horsepower or no horsepower. It's ugly.

[awalbert88]

Uhm... the Shelby Cobra will have the 5.8 V10 rated at 425hp. SVT is going upscale, so expect the 500hp V8 in the SVT Mustang (SVT Cobra implies that SVT is making a version of the Shelby Cobra). The SVT Mustang won't be a $35k car anymore, unfortunately, but there will be special models in that price range (perhaps a little below).

The Shelby Cobra was designed around a V10 being in the engine bay, so I can't fathom a reason they would go with a V8 in the production version. The notion of a V10 in the SVT Mustang is something that has absolutely no basis in reality -- it doesn't even deserve the name "rumor", because it's just rampant speculation. The SVT Mustang will probably have the same motor as the SVT Lightning, though tuned a little bit differently. It will also be setup for serious road-racing, and oh by the way, be able to beat a Viper at the drags if it wants to. SVT is aiming to make the SVT Mustang capable of taking on the M cars from BMW, so a 425hp motor isn't going to cut it.

I just want to know what they're going to call the SVT version of the Mustang; maybe just "Mustang SVT". If the Shelby car is produced (and I don't know why they'd spend that kind of money and effort getting Shelby back into the company if they weren't going to build that car), then it will be there for the purpose of beating up on the Vette and Viper, leaving the M-SVT as a more practical (four-seater) vehicle to beat up on the sports coupes from Germany, and the Ford GT as the Italian beater. Ford seems to be quite serious about definitavely owning the performance market, at least domestically.

[GAU89LXStang]

I think they may do a Shelby Cobra, but I think the most likely avenue right now is a Shelby version of the Mustang. I am sure that John Coletti and old Carroll Shelby are duking it out over what will be the top offering. I personally would like to see Shelby get it. I can also see the Shelby as more geared towards road racing. That is what the original Shelbys were geared towards. With the exception of the Boss Mustangs, Ford itself didn't seem to get into the road racing thing then.
I can't wait until 2006 to see what is offered then. I think I read that Shelby "leased" the use of the "Cobra" name to Ford...Maybe he will pull the name back...I know that ol' Shel was suing all of those kit car companies for calling their cars "Cobra".
Just my 2 cents, don't count this as the gospel truth though...I have been wrong before.

Mo' Town

[Omegalock]

Don't forget the GT is going away in short order so I honestly don't expect it to affect the SVT Cobra.

[ttown]

I don't think cars like the Ford GT and Cobra R mean much to the regular mustang brand. Those cars are very limited with only a few hundred produced and not meant for the masses. A true collectors car and are designed to go head to head with the high dollar Europeian models.

The Shelby will be tested by Car and Driver type rags just like the Ford GT IMO. It will go head to head with the 100k plus market even if it doesn't quite cost that much.

The Z06 isn't in the class of the Ford GT and GM dosen't ever have an entry in that market. It's about time we can throw it in the face of the GM guys.

[numenor27]

Originally Posted by Z28x

If the Shelby Cobra comes out, will it hold back the performance of the SVT Cobra?

THe Ford GT is 500HP and $140K and rumors have it that if the Shelby Cobra is built it will cost about the same as a Viper ($83K). Since it would be cheaper, I would also expext it to have less HP than Fords Flagship car the GT(40). THe same then could probably be said for the SVT Mustang Cobra, Ford wouldn't want the $35K SVT Cobra to be as fast as an $80K Shelby Cobra.

If the Shelby is built then we might get a Ford line up that looks like this:
Ford GT = 500HP
Shelby Cobra = 460HP
SVT Cobra = 425HP

or if the final production Ford GT HP goes up, thanks to the new twin screw s/c it now has, we might see.

Ford GT = 550HP
Shelby Cobra = 500HP
SVT Cobra = 450HP

It seems like for us Mustang fans it would be better if the Shelby isn't built, Then we could get a higher HP Cobra, What do you guys think?

I think that the Shelby cobra will be faster and more expensive than the ford Gt. then the SVT Mustang cobtra would be under the ford gt

[Azul93GT]

Originally Posted by awalbert88

...I just want to know what they're going to call the SVT version of the Mustang; maybe just "Mustang SVT". If the Shelby car is produced...

Why wouldn't they continue to call it the SVT Cobra Mustang? The Shelby Mustangs were called GT 350 and GT 500 in the past.

I don't think that they'll make a Shelby Mustang with Saleen, Roush and others out there already. I think we'll see a production version of that Shelby Cobra roadster that was featured on Rides.

[RodStang]

Originally Posted by GAU89LXStang

I think they may do a Shelby Cobra, but I think the most likely avenue right now is a Shelby version of the Mustang. I am sure that John Coletti and old Carroll Shelby are duking it out over what will be the top offering.

I kind of doubt that. Every indication is that Carroll is more of a marketing figure now. Am I the only one who remembers the scam he was trying to run a few years ago by making new Cobras and claiming they were real originals becuase they were made out of parts from the 60s? Carroll did some great stuff in his day but I have seen nothing that indicates he is in a real leadership postion at Ford. He is 80 years old and probalby did not have a healthy lifestyle so I doubt he will be with us much longer.

Where did I read that the next Cobra would be aimed at the BMW M3?

[RiceEating5.0]

I think it'll be like this.

From 2004 to 2006
Ford GT - 500-550hp factory rating - actual rating probably closer to 600hp.

in 2006 as a 2007 model
Ford SVT Cobra- 500hp. Same engine as SVT lightning which should get 500hp mill as well. Ford already said they plan to use the GT's engine in other applications and that it wasn't developed for GT alone. SVT Cobra and L are prime candidates.

Shelby Cobra- Probably same engine as concept (6.4L 605hp v10)- should come on as GT replacement. 605hp would give the shelby breathing space while allowing Cobra and L to be bumbed to 500hp. This shelby will probably be a Corvette bluedevil and Hemi Viper fighter (both rumored to have 600+).

[RiceEating5.0]

This is some parts i'm quoting from the recent C&D mag.

Title: Cobra Aspires to be M fighter.

Phil Martens has put his fingerprints all over the new mustang.....Martens also has an idea where the next SVT Cobra is headed: We have to have a Cobra that is world-class level. The old fox platform couldn't deliver that; this one can". Expect a bigger, broader separation between Mustang GT's and SVT Cobra's, he says. BMW's M cars are serving as inspiration....The expectation in this category is for a much more refined product.

"Also likely: supercharging and a substantial increase from the current Cobra's 390 hp. Ford has set no firm price ceiling, Martens says. "The only restriction is that you have to build it on the mustang line,and the quality has to be there.".

[351CJ]

Originally Posted by RiceEating5.0

This is some parts i'm quoting from the recent C&D mag.

"Also likely: supercharging and a substantial increase from the current Cobra's 390 hp. Ford has set no firm price ceiling, Martens says. "The only restriction is that you have to build it on the mustang line,and the quality has to be there.".

There are rumors that the 2006 SVT Cobra (Mustang) will get a version of the 5.4L SC engine in the GT. It will supposedly have around 500 HP. I don't remember the exact quote, but John Colletti said something link this:

We didn't spend all this money developing this engine (5.4L SC engine) just to use it in a single low volume car (Ford GT).

The rumor mill says the 5.4L SC GT engine puts out about 530 HP, not the 550+ that some people have claimed. There also is a rumor that at the end of its productin, Ford will build a limited number of Ford GT's with the 6.4L V10 from the Shelby Cobra concept car.

[RodStang]

Originally Posted by RiceEating5.0

Title: Cobra Aspires to be M fighter.

Phil Martens has put his fingerprints all over the new mustang.....Martens also has an idea where the next SVT Cobra is headed: We have to have a Cobra that is world-class level. The old fox platform couldn't deliver that; this one can". Expect a bigger, broader separation between Mustang GT's and SVT Cobra's, he says. BMW's M cars are serving as inspiration....The expectation in this category is for a much more refined product.

"Also likely: supercharging and a substantial increase from the current Cobra's 390 hp. Ford has set no firm price ceiling, Martens says. "The only restriction is that you have to build it on the mustang line,and the quality has to be there.".

Yeah. That is what I was thinking of. An M3 Coupe starts at $47K so I would not mind that kind of performance if I could get it for a lot less. Hell, at the mid $20s the Mustang is almost as powerful.

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by RodStang

Yeah. That is what I was thinking of. An M3 Coupe starts at $47K so I would not mind that kind of performance if I could get it for a lot less. Hell, at the mid $20s the Mustang is almost as powerful.

The current M3 are a little slower than an LS1 Camaro, The next M3 (called M4) is rumored to get a 380HP V8. I don't think the SVT Mustang Cobra will have any problems against that cars

Originally Posted by ttown

The Z06 isn't in the class of the Ford GT and GM dosen't even have an entry in that market. It's about time we can throw it in the face of the GM guys.

I wouldn't under estimate GM, the 2006 Z06 will be 500HP and close to 3000lbs. That is 300lbs. lighter than the Ford GT and will be $80,000+ cheaper.

[351CJ]

Originally Posted by Z28x

I wouldn't under estimate GM, the 2006 Z06 will be 500HP and close to 3000lbs. That is 300lbs. lighter than the Ford GT and will be $80,000+ cheaper.

That's where the new V10 Shelby Cobra comes in. As J Mays said: "The reason for the Cobra (then - 1960's and now) has always been to spoil the Corvette's party."

[tylers65]

Originally Posted by 351CJ

That's where the new V10 Shelby Cobra comes in. As J Mays said: "The reason for the Cobra (then - 1960's and now) has always been to spoil the Corvette's party."

Check your PM's

[ttown]

Originally Posted by Z28x

I wouldn't under estimate GM, the 2006 Z06 will be 500HP and close to 3000lbs. That is 300lbs. lighter than the Ford GT and will be $80,000+ cheaper.

I like how you make the vette that weights around 3250lbs at it present weight come out to 3000 lbs so you can say 300 lbs lighter instead of 50 lbs The same rumors existed that the 05 Mustang would be lighter than the present one but we see how that happened. Fact is Chevy made the vette about as light as it's going to be IMO and pass federal safety laws.

The Ford GT is being built in 04 not 06 and all engines will advance IMO. Unlike the Vette the Ford GT is a very limited production car and is more in the collector car class and a test platform for Ford than a common production run. It's been beating cars costing much more than it's price and is in a class that chevys isn't. Very few cars in the world produce it's power and handles with the best of the world class cars for the price

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by ttown

I like how you make the vette that weights around 3250lbs at it present weight come out to 3000 lbs so you can say 300 lbs lighter instead of 50 lbs

The current Z06 is 3118lbs., so if it drops 50-75lbs. like the regular C6, that will put it at just over 3000lbs. Plus the next Z06 is getting aluminum frame rails, the base C6 has steel ones. The Ford GT will be over 3300lbs. That is closer to 300lbs. than 50lbs. by my math

Originally Posted by ttown

The Ford GT is being built in 04 not 06 and all engines will advance IMO. Unlike the Vette the Ford GT is a very limited production car and is more in the collector car class and a test platform for Ford than a common production run. It's been beating cars costing much more than it's price and is in a class that chevys isn't. Very few cars in the world produce it's power and handles with the best of the world class cars for the price

The Ford GT will be in late 2004 and the next Z06 in summer 2005. Even if a sub $60,000 Z06 is as fast as the $140,000 Ford GT, I would still consider the Ford GT a good deal since it will be kicking Italian cars asses that cost twice as much, and that is what it was built for.

[awalbert88]

I've heard a lot of talk that the Z06 will have 500hp. However, I've yet to see a single quote, press release, or other hard fact about it. Not even any real rumours. Just speculation.

I don't think the Shelby Cobra will get the 6.4 V10. It would have the 5.8 V10 from the V10 Mustang testbed. No other reason to have developed the engine that much. The 6.4 V10 would make a nice limited-run Ford GT for the final year, though. Chevy says, "hah, guess what Ford, your parade just got rained on with our blue devil!" Ford responds, "too late, we have a 650hp V10 in our GT, and oh by the way, it still outhandles your offering."

Too bad the Viper isn't in the same handling class as the GT or the Vette. I think the Hemi V10 is going to be seriously overhyped. The fuel economy will be really horendous. Not that fuel economy is a concern when you're spending that kind of money on a car, but the Viper V10 already gets pretty bad mileage. And going to a Hemi head will not help much (the Hemi V8 is worse than most truck V10's in that regard)

Oh well, I'm far too tired to remember where I was heading with all this, so...

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by awalbert88

I've heard a lot of talk that the Z06 will have 500hp. However, I've yet to see a single quote, press release, or other hard fact about it. Not even any real rumours. Just speculation.

Corvette Chief Engineer, Dave Hill, has already publicly announced the C6 Z06 will be out in 2005 and have 500HP

[RodStang]

All of the horsepower makes me happy regardless of where is comes from.

[HuskerCobra96]

Couple of quick comments from misinformation I've read above.

Ford owns the "Cobra" name. They aren't leasing it from Shelby.

Secondly, the Shelby Roadster will share a large amount of suspension geometry as the Ford GT.

Ford states they can bring this into production in 30 months. If they started today, you wouldn't see this car until 2006 at the earliest, most likely in 2007 after the Ford GT is discontinued.

Keep in mind the Shelby Roadster will come in at an estimated 3000-3100 lbs.

The Shelby Roadster will be a Ford Specialty car and won't hurt sales of the SVT Cobra, or SVT Mustang, as they are purchased by different classes of people.

The first car under $80K Ford brings to the table with over 500 HP will be in my garage. I don't care if it's a Roadster or SVT Mustang, as long as the car is tight.

Playing the waiting game is half the fun...

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by HuskerCobra96

The Shelby Roadster will be a Ford Specialty car and won't hurt sales of the SVT Cobra, or SVT Mustang, as they are purchased by different classes of people.

The issue isn't whether it will hurt sales, because it won't, both cars (SVT Mustang Cobra and Shelby Cobra) are limited quanity and sold to different types of people.

The Real question is will it put a ceiling on the performance of the SVT Mustang Cobra? If the Shelby is 500HP, I don't think Ford will ever build a SVT Cobra over 450HP. That isn't really that bad though, 450HP is still a hell of a lot of power.