[5.0_GT_kid]

Ok guys well I am a n00b when it comes to this tuning stuff but I have some questions for you guys (please excuse me if these have been asked before, but a search turned up no results)

Lately I have been considering getting a Tweecer for my car, but the fact I don't know too much about tuning or the Tweecer itself, has kinda scared me off. My next option is getting a chip burned for my car from one of the local area tuners here. Problem there is, it can get very costly (especially if you make changes) and finding a tuner you can trust.

Just for reference, I will be building a 306 for my car that will occasionally be used with nitrous.

Here are my questions...

1. Regarding chips, is one type better than another (SCT, Diablo, other?). I would think they would be basically the same but I wanted to ask.

2. I know there are different types of Tweecer programs, what does each version do and what are the differences?

3. How hard is it to learn Tweecer? I'm a fairly quick learner. Screen shots of the Tweecer programs would be nice if anyone can provide.

4. If I buy a Tweecer, I'd like to get one fairly soon and start making small changes/learning now. If I go this route, what are some of the first changes I should make?

Also any other comments, suggestions or the like regarding any tuning method would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance guys.

[5.0_GT_kid]

Also I should add this car is going to be a daily driver for a little while longer, then become a weekend car that sees the track and autocross for recreation only.

[final5-0]

Originally Posted by 5.0_GT_kid

Ok guys well I am a n00b when it comes to this tuning stuff but I have some questions for you guys (please excuse me if these have been asked before, but a search turned up no results)

Lately I have been considering getting a Tweecer for my car, but the fact I don't know too much about tuning or the Tweecer itself, has kinda scared me off. My next option is getting a chip burned for my car from one of the local area tuners here. Problem there is, it can get very costly (especially if you make changes) and finding a tuner you can trust.

Just for reference, I will be building a 306 for my car that will occasionally be used with nitrous.

Here are my questions...

1. Regarding chips, is one type better than another (SCT, Diablo, other?). I would think they would be basically the same but I wanted to ask.

2. I know there are different types of Tweecer programs, what does each version do and what are the differences?

3. How hard is it to learn Tweecer? I'm a fairly quick learner. Screen shots of the Tweecer programs would be nice if anyone can provide.

4. If I buy a Tweecer, I'd like to get one fairly soon and start making small changes/learning now. If I go this route, what are some of the first changes I should make?

Also any other comments, suggestions or the like regarding any tuning method would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance guys.

1) I've seen a lot of good things about the SCT system.

2) There is the basic Tweecer and the Tweecer RT. The basic Tweecer won't datalog. The RT will datalog and that data is so helpful for many reasons but the extra cost of the RT IMHO is worth it and then some.

As for the software that drives the Tweecer, V1.30 is the latest but I prefer the V1.20 as the datalogging is more stable.

The ability to gather hard data is really what I think makes the Tweecer a good tool to not only tune for max power but help you solve drivability issues. Other programs like MS Excell, Log Analyst, EEC Analyzer can be used to enhance the raw data and you'll be able to see things the simple little default playback feature can't show you.

3) It is not that bad. A lot of the stuff is obvious and some of it will take a bit of effort on your part to learn about.

btw...The focus of the learning part is about the pcm...not how to use the Tweecer interface.

4) That is how I got started. Learn a little, tune a little, lol.
Simple things like Tip in Retard, Spark Tables, and the like can make a good bit of difference.

If you are gonna self tune you need a wide band or else you have no way to know your af ratio. With a wide band, you can get your tune very close to "right on the money" as they say. That way when you go to the dyno, all you gotta do is a little fine tuning.

The PMS is good and is easier to use than the Tweecer but I have no experience with it. I bet some of the guys who have one will give you some info about it.

Later
Grady

[5.0_GT_kid]

Thanks Grady, I'll have to look into a wide band.

[CManT1914]

Not to hijack the thread, but where can I find a twEEcer? I know AFM sells the PMS (since it's their system) and it's around $900. Does the tweecer have a website?

[5.0_GT_kid]

www.tweecer.com

[5.0_GT_kid]

Anymore input?

[95strokerPSU]

I just got an SCT done on my car last week, and I'd recommend it to anyone doing h/c/i, or in your case a whole rebuild. Unless you think you'd like to play with a tweecer and learn that whole thing. Personally I wanted it tuned, and then be done with it. But the SCT gave me is near perfect driveability and I no longer experience hard starts. And the new power is nice too.

Dave

[5.0_GT_kid]

Cool deal Stroker, I am still considering the SCT tune, but I would really like to do it myself and also for the experience, since I want to get into the performance industry.

We'll see what more people have to say about this.

[final5-0]

Originally Posted by 5.0_GT_kid

I would really like to do it myself and also for the experience, since I want to get into the performance industry.

Now that I see that, you may want to know this about the Tweecer.

It gives you access to many more pcm options than some of the other tuning interfaces according to what peeps who use those other interfaces have said in various threads I've seen.

Thats the very reason lots of peeps don't wanna get involved with the Tweecer ......... they want to tune without having to learn about their pcm.
I think those peeps have a very valid point of view and the PCM is more along the lines of their thinking. You just gotta figure which camp of folks you wanna be in I guess, lol.

You will see things in the Tweecers functions, scalars, and tables that will cause you to ask .......... what does that do, or mean, or how does it work ................. and that leads to you gaining more knowledge about the pcm.

Like I said above ...... Your basic understanding about the pcm will cause you to know WHY you would want to make a change in its various values. The raw data in the data logs will confirm your NEED to make those changes and after the change, new data will confirm or verify, those changes were correct.

To sum it up ... The Tweecer only allows you the ability to make a change in the pcm and gather data. Its up to you to know WHY you would wanna make those changes, lol.

Later
Grady

[5.0_GT_kid]

Very true Grady. I don't plan on playing with it just to learn, but make the changes I need.

Overall the Tweecer is looking like the best option for me right now.

[CManT1914]

Again, not to hijack the thread (kinda pointless to make a whole new one though), but would one be better off going with a tweecer, or a custom dyno tune? I would think both would have advantages right? I heard somewhere that even with a tweecer you still need to get a dyno tune. True?

[BlackVert]

Originally Posted by CManT1914

Again, not to hijack the thread (kinda pointless to make a whole new one though), but would one be better off going with a tweecer, or a custom dyno tune? I would think both would have advantages right? I heard somewhere that even with a tweecer you still need to get a dyno tune. True?

as grady has said before, it really depends on your goals. if you are interested in knowing how the pcm works and what settings effect what, then the tweecer is a great tool. the downside is there is so much there, it is easy to be overwhelmed. you can get a dyno tune done in a day and be done with it, but that may not address whatever drivability issues you may have. or you can spend more time with the tweecer and end up with what is likely to be a better tune. it will take a lot longer, but at the end you would have a working understanding about how the computer makes its decisions, and you would be better equipped to address any changes you may make in the future.

[final5-0]

Originally Posted by CManT1914

Again, not to hijack the thread (kinda pointless to make a whole new one though), but would one be better off going with a tweecer, or a custom dyno tune? I would think both would have advantages right?

Chris

I guess only you could answer the Q about if you want to tune your combo or let somebody else tune it.

I heard somewhere that even with a tweecer you still need to get a dyno tune. True?

If you make the investment for a device that will allow you to tune your combo and then have some dyno guy use it while your car is on the dyno then what would be the point of buying the device in the first place.

That is one of the big advantages of self tuning.................................
The dyno is then only needed for fine tuning and verification of the hp & tq numbers so you can then come on this site and brag about your combo to the rest of us.

If I have not understood your Q then ...... set me straight, lol.

Later
Grady

[CManT1914]

Originally Posted by final5-0

Chris

I guess only you could answer the Q about if you want to tune your combo or let somebody else tune it.



If you make the investment for a device that will allow you to tune your combo and then have some dyno guy use it while your car is on the dyno then what would be the point of buying the device in the first place.

That is one of the big advantages of self tuning.................................
The dyno is then only needed for fine tuning and verification of the hp & tq numbers so you can then come on this site and brag about your combo to the rest of us.

If I have not understood your Q then ...... set me straight, lol.

Later
Grady

This forum's freaking awesome!! You understood me right. I originally wanted (when I decided to do the heads/cam) to get a custom dyno tune. 1) I wanted a good and safe tune so I wouldn't screw anything up. 2) I wanted to see what kind of numbers I was putting down. But dyno tunes from what I've been told are pretty expensive too. I just finished reading the entire Tweecer website and decided once my bank account gets a little more padding then I'm gonna get one. I don't mind doing the work myself, in fact I like messing with stuff like that anyway. Plus, there's no reputable dyno shops anywhere near here. Thanks Grady and Chris!

[mootang]

i got a dyno tune yesterday and so far I have no complaints. drivability is much better and it seems to be stronger. I use to be lucky to get a chirp when i shifted from 1st to 2nd but now it smokes the $hit out of the tires on the 1st to 2nd shift. that most likely has to do with the shift retard being gone though!

[bjl95mustang]

I'm going to stick with my tweecer rt for now.

Becuause i'm going with a 4r70w tranny I can still change that around and get it just right and I can data log to my laptop while i'm out driving. Once I get right I might just have my tranny adjustments added to a cystom dyno chip. I have some pre done tranny programs I want to try out before I get the chip.

And Chris here in pflugerville about 3 min from my house there is an awesome custom tuner with a dyno. He is doing my car once I get it ready. Pm me and I will give you his info if you want it.

[rocketcarx]

or you could forego the dyno tune w/tweecer and buy a stand-alone. the pcm is complicated even the company that makes tweecer says that right on thier web-site. why learn the pcm if you could just easily replace it with a more user friendly modern alternative? Accel, AEM, FAST, SDS.

You will always need a dyno tune no matter how you control the drivetrain. I would either go with a traditional dyno tune ar a real stand alone system. I mean are you really going to visit a dyno every time you make a change in the tweecer? If you a "guessing" while tuning then i would say it is even dangerous to buy a tweecer. JMHO.

[CManT1914]

Originally Posted by bjl95mustang

I'm going to stick with my tweecer rt for now.

Becuause i'm going with a 4r70w tranny I can still change that around and get it just right and I can data log to my laptop while i'm out driving. Once I get right I might just have my tranny adjustments added to a cystom dyno chip. I have some pre done tranny programs I want to try out before I get the chip.

And Chris here in pflugerville about 3 min from my house there is an awesome custom tuner with a dyno. He is doing my car once I get it ready. Pm me and I will give you his info if you want it.

PM sent.

[Venom351R]

I just had a superchip burnt for mine. I dont really have the time or the know how to tune the car myself so the chip was the next best option. Cost $400 for the dyno tune and it was well worth it.

[final5-0]

Originally Posted by rocketcarx

or you could forego the dyno tune w/tweecer and buy a stand-alone. the pcm is complicated even the company that makes tweecer says that right on thier web-site. why learn the pcm if you could just easily replace it with a more user friendly modern alternative? Accel, AEM, FAST, SDS.

I think it is a good thing to keep in mind that not everybody has a prob with wanting to learn how the pcm does it thing and why it no longer works correctly after one bolts all those hot rod parts on their car. Some folks just like to understand stuff about their car. Some don't. Its all good for either kind!

Again, if one has just a basic understanding of the pcm ..................
All the Tweecer does is allow them to adjust its values based on that knowledge and the data they have at their disposal from the data logs.

I totally agree with you about the more user friendly & modern tuning interfaces like you have listed and they are great for those who just don't want to get involved in the pcm that much. So YES, with a doubt, If one thinks that might describe them ............ The Tweecer is most likely not for them.

For that user friendly advantage ... you are gonna have to pay a good bit more for that convenience.

And if we are gonna have an apples to apples comparison .......................
you have to include the datalogging option to those other tuning interfaces which drives their price even higher.

You will always need a dyno tune no matter how you control the drivetrain. I would either go with a traditional dyno tune ar a real stand alone system. I mean are you really going to visit a dyno every time you make a change in the tweecer? If you a "guessing" while tuning then i would say it is even dangerous to buy a tweecer. JMHO.

I could be misunderstanding what you are trying to say here ...........
but from my point of view..............

Your perception of what it is like to self tune with the Tweecer is nothing like what I have found from using mine to tune my car.

Lets just focus on wot tuning.

If you got a wb then you should be able to tune your af ratio without a dyno no matter which tuning interface you use.

As for going to the dyno for verification every time you make a change.......
Thats what the data logs are for.

As for guessing while tuning ..............
IMHO, Thats one of the best things about using a Tweecer to self tune!!!
The data logs are what makes it possible to not have the unknowns.

If you get a wide band to go along with it you have a pretty complete self tuning package and you should be able to have your combo tuned to ... lets say about 98% BEFORE you go to the dyno. I know several guys who use it and have never been to the dyno.

Hey don't get me wrong................
The Tweecer is not without its probs and I don't think its the ONLY way.

I do think that for the money spent ...... it gives a lot of value but you do have to be willing to gain a bit of knowledge to go along with it.

I think this would be an example to show the Tweecer is effective..........

Take a look at my sig ...... My numbers are not the highest on this site for sure ...... but without the Tweecer ...... the numbers & curves you see in the pull would not have been possible because I was using the stock tb, maf, & catback. Don't forget to notice that I was using 30lb inj's also.

Another benefit I enjoy from using the Tweecer to self tune is.................
except for cam lope........my car behaves like a stocker.

Later
Grady

[nmcgrawj]

I run the older PMS(02 year) in mine with my h/c/i combo and now or soon to be with the 351w combo. On my h/c/i it was a breeze to tune it. Now i got the Innovative Motorsports xd-1/lc-1 wideband and it will be a walk in the park im sure again.

The PMS will get the same tune quality and get you down the track as fast as a chip or tweecer. The tweecer just lets you change some of the "luxuries" as i call them like turning off the EGR (which can be tricked without it) and adjusting for long tubes but thats not always needed.

If you want to make the changes yourself than the PMS is a great beginner. I was thinking about switching to the tweecer to try it out but i decided to keep it simple for now. When i have the time to read and read and read to figure out how to tune, i will get the tweecer. But for now i will just go out, drive around, hit a couple buttons and get a nice tune for my car. With the wideband, i have no need for the dyno but others who dond have one will most likely need one for WOT tuning.

You dont have to get the $800 PMS from AFM, you can get a pre-04 model like did for $400 shipped and use it. The pre-04 just has less "windows" for tuning than the 04 and a couple other things. But you can upgrade later when u want to for $200 or so.

Let me know if u have any specific questions about the PMS. I will be more than happy to answer them.

[db1994]

Everyone here is giving you pretty accurate advice.

I have the tweecerRT myself, and while it has some quirks, and does take a reasonable amount of time to get aquainted with in order to make it do the things you want - there are couple functionalities of it that make it invaluable to me personally as opposed to the other tuning solutions.

1) Turning off the EGR. and thermactor.
2) Turning off the driver side o2 sensor, and using a widebands simulated narrowband output to the PCM for my o2 sensor reading.

All in all, I have no doubt that an SCT tune could probly get more power and be more convienent, or that a PMS is easier to use.

But for my intended use, the tweecer was the only way to go. Just like most mustang mods, you just have to decide up front which direction you want to go with it

-Jason

[CManT1914]

Originally Posted by nmcgrawj

I run the older PMS(02 year) in mine with my h/c/i combo and now or soon to be with the 351w combo. On my h/c/i it was a breeze to tune it. Now i got the Innovative Motorsports xd-1/lc-1 wideband and it will be a walk in the park im sure again.

The PMS will get the same tune quality and get you down the track as fast as a chip or tweecer. The tweecer just lets you change some of the "luxuries" as i call them like turning off the EGR (which can be tricked without it) and adjusting for long tubes but thats not always needed.

If you want to make the changes yourself than the PMS is a great beginner. I was thinking about switching to the tweecer to try it out but i decided to keep it simple for now. When i have the time to read and read and read to figure out how to tune, i will get the tweecer. But for now i will just go out, drive around, hit a couple buttons and get a nice tune for my car. With the wideband, i have no need for the dyno but others who dond have one will most likely need one for WOT tuning.

You dont have to get the $800 PMS from AFM, you can get a pre-04 model like did for $400 shipped and use it. The pre-04 just has less "windows" for tuning than the 04 and a couple other things. But you can upgrade later when u want to for $200 or so.

Let me know if u have any specific questions about the PMS. I will be more than happy to answer them.

Where can you get the older model for $400??

Originally Posted by db1994

Everyone here is giving you pretty accurate advice.

I have the tweecerRT myself, and while it has some quirks, and does take a reasonable amount of time to get aquainted with in order to make it do the things you want - there are couple functionalities of it that make it invaluable to me personally as opposed to the other tuning solutions.

1) Turning off the EGR. and thermactor.
2) Turning off the driver side o2 sensor, and using a widebands simulated narrowband output to the PCM for my o2 sensor reading.

All in all, I have no doubt that an SCT tune could probly get more power and be more convienent, or that a PMS is easier to use.

But for my intended use, the tweecer was the only way to go. Just like most mustang mods, you just have to decide up front which direction you want to go with it

-Jason

I like the fact that you can turn off the EGR via the tweecer since I'm probably gonna have to take mine off. Why would you turn off the driver side O2?

[final5-0]

Originally Posted by db1994

Everyone here is giving you pretty accurate advice.

I have the tweecerRT myself, and while it has some quirks, and does take a reasonable amount of time to get aquainted with in order to make it do the things you want - there are couple functionalities of it that make it invaluable to me personally as opposed to the other tuning solutions.

1) Turning off the EGR. and thermactor.
2) Turning off the driver side o2 sensor, and using a widebands simulated narrowband output to the PCM for my o2 sensor reading.

All in all, I have no doubt that an SCT tune could probly get more power and be more convienent, or that a PMS is easier to use.

But for my intended use, the tweecer was the only way to go. Just like most mustang mods, you just have to decide up front which direction you want to go with it

-Jason

Jason

I agree with everyting you have said .........................

except

Why do you think a SCT chip would yield more power for your combo than your Tweecer?

Later
Grady