[Xtreme Limits]

Hey guys i need help a.s.a.p. i have a 1990 GT Vert that was a 5-speed, a couple months back i put in a AOD tranny in it and the junk yard said it had just been rebuilt, but form day 1 OD didnt work, and only 2weeks and it stated to slip really bad, then the next weekend i went for a ride an just made it home doing 15mph @ 5,000rpm, needless to say its shot , but the junkyard gave me a 6month warrenty on it an i told the owner said he'll give me another, he told me he has two c4's, five AOD's, an tons of AODE.

Now my question is what would i need to put in a AODE into my car?
do i just need a wire harness, or something eles Will it work with my 90 gt 5-speed computer?
I do want to get a after market computer for the tranny so i can ajust the shift points and also want to have manutronic operation aka paddel ****er, but wont have enuff money till october, So what the cheapest for now?

Please take me step by step on what i need or have to do , or point me to a website that has a T-5 to AODE write up.

[Myke86GT]

Probably the cheapest & only way would to put a manual VB in it.

[notchback]

you shouldn't be able to run the aod w/ a 5-speed puter in it?

i would say you need a computer, and a yoke from a DS from a aode car

pretty sure the output shaft is bigger, it is on a a4ld for sure and i think they are the same.

[Xtreme Limits]

well i dont want a manual VB, i want a electronic tranny, btw my AOD that i put in seemed to work just fine with my 5-speed puter, now i know i mite need an auto puter for an AODE/4R70W Tranny, but what eles?
btw by cheap i meen $200-300bucks..fyi

[HISSIN50]

If wanting an AODE, do the 4R instead.

You DEFINATELY need to control the electronic trans, so some sort of puter (either a U4p0 puter or a stand alone unit) will be needed. Then all the rewiring for the EEC and/or trans.

I would much rather use a mechanical trans instead. The cost and headaches spent to get it right will outweigh the extra cost or whatever, of using a mech trans IMHO.

[jwzg]

A Baumannator TCS is the only way to run the AODE in a Fox that I know of. You would do well to read through that site and perhaps use the parts from the 4R70W which was the wide-ratio version of the electronic AOD used in the 96-04 v-6 Mustangs to rebuild your current AOD. Look up nosmatt on corral.net and see if he'll tell you about his AOD rebuild experience. Good luck.

[Xtreme Limits]

Originally Posted by HISSIN50

You DEFINATELY need to control the electronic trans, so some sort of puter (either a U4p0 puter or a stand alone unit) will be needed. Then all the rewiring for the EEC and/or trans.

what is a U4p0 computer?
does it come in 1999-2004 v6's, cus i have a uncle that has a 2000 v6 vert that hes been parting out, and im sure he'll let me have the harness an computer for free , i think he mite even have the tranny still, but if not i can get a 4R70W insted of a AODE at the junk yard, so what do i need to look for on the 2000 vert?

[HISSIN50]

U4 puter is from 94-95 GT Automatic cars.

I am not well versed in the AODE to 4R swap. If you search posts by Oink, I believe he has done the swap.

Here is an outstanding set of articles. You can see more about the interchangability of the trannies.

FWIW, I have seen folks mention swappin in a 4R trans from the New Edge V6 stangs (not mod motor) - even the V6 trans is supposed to be stronger than the AODE IIRC.

Good luck.

[Myke86GT]

You won't be able to put the eletronic tranny in for $200-$300 right now. To get by right now I would just take out the AOD and replace the OD band and what ever clutches are bad. Should be able to do that for less than you are wanting to spend right now.

Then when ready you can either get an AOD-E or the (99+) V-6 4r7w with a stand alone. The 4r7w will need to minor mods though. Like some clutches added, and shortened drive shaft.. Check out this link,, I have been thinking of the 4r7w/ Baunmator swap myself.. http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=543458

[Xtreme Limits]

ok guys thanks for the help,
i talked to my uncle and hegave me the 00 v6 4R70W w/wire harnness, and drive shaft just incase i needed it....
So im just going to sell the tranny i get from the junk yard, an the but the Baumannator TCS !

now i think im set but just to clairify , how do i make my speedo to work with the 4R70W? (just change the tail shaft off my blown AOD?)

Anything eles i need to know

[Myke86GT]

Originally Posted by Xtreme Limits

now i think im set but just to clairify , how do i make my speedo to work with the 4R70W? (just change the tail shaft off my blown AOD?)

Anything eles i need to know

Think that is all you need to do is swap tail housingd to get the speedo to work.. Think that link I posted explains all that. (beenawhile since I rea it.)

Let us know how it goes and possible do a write on it. I am still debating the 4r7w w/Baumanator for my 84..

[macx]

I'm getting close to swapping an 00 V6 4R for my 89 AOD.

Have done a bunch of research.

The 99-up V6 4R is the best one to use.
The 4.2 unit out of light trucks w/4.2 V6 is the same internals as the mod motor V8 trannys. The 3.8 Mustang 4R just has one less direct clutch plate than the others, not a tough add.

You do have to control it somehow.
Probly the easiest is the Baumannator
www.becontrols.com.

By all means read the first 2 or 3 articles at www.tccoa.com, in the tech section, trans.

Here's kind of a summary of the first one.

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article80.html

The 4R is 7/8" longer than your standard length AOD. You'll also need the yoke as the OD is larger even though the spline & dia of the output shaft are the same.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to add the 99-up Stang ecu to run the trans. There's have to be inputs from the motor like tps voltage, rpms, besides power, ground & speed sensor. The harness from your unc's Stang would be the ticket, as the later 4R's have a different plug on the range sensor on the external linkage that must match the plug.

I'm going to try to find a wiring diagram in the library in a big Motor Manual and see if I can figure out what has to be input to the ecu to run the 4R. BTW, the Baumann control is like $425. You'd still need the trans wiring harness, and do the valve body mods per the tccoa articles. Even without adding that extra direct clutch plate, that 4R is stronger than any AOD and is as strong as the mod motor tranny's if you do the valve body mods per the tccoa article. I think ( not entirely sure) that the flex plate off that 3.8 V6 will bolt to your 302, but don't know if the balance is correct. If not, you can get a flexplate from like a 94/95 Stang w/302 & AOD/E from a junkyard, or new most anyplace for $50. The 3.8 converter will then work, and although not a "high" stall, is still several hundred
higher than the stock AOD converter.

macxx1@excite if I can be of any help.

If you're in a rush, the Baumann control is the way to go. If not, maybe we can figure out how to run the trans from the
Stang oem ecu.

[Xtreme Limits]

macx - im not so much in a rush as like needing to have the car to go to work an such.. My stang is going to be my weekend play car! But i need to put in joystick controls so i will be able to drive it(im a c4-5 quadrapligic) an have to have the car drive able to put the handycap controls in... Now i have found out i have a A9L ecu in my car, an to make the tranny run i need etheir the Baumannator, or get a 94-95 ecu called U4P0 an get tweecer this will adjust the tranny just like the Baumannator, but is alittle more complicated but i would also have control over the motor!
Here is a post by DavidNC about how to adjust with tweecer -
BTW ITS VERY LONG......
The guys using TwEECer to shifts their autos say that it works great.

Here is a write up on some of the TwEECer electronic transmission tuning parameters, not all apply to the aode:

Automatic Transmission
There is something in the trans function called TV pressure, this is a
throw back to when there was a TV rod from the throttle to a valve in
the trans, and TV stands for Throttle Valve. There is an electric
solenoid that controls TV pressure. TV can also be called EPC,
Electronic Pressure Control. TV pressure acts on the main regulator
valve to change line pressure. Line pressure, in most Ford
transmissions, equals 1.6 times TV pressure plus 40. All trans speak is
done in TV pressure.
There are two components to TV pressure, they are called torque input
and user input. Torque input pressure is calculated based on some
inputs (which I'll cover in a minute) and user input is user controlled
(that's you).
When you are not shifting, TV pressure is just the output of a Y=mX+b
slope, where m is a calibrated slope and b is an intercept. X is the
calculated torque that the EEC thinks the engine is making, multiplied
by the torque ratio of the torque converter based on the speed ratio
that you are at . So, for example, lets say the slope is .2 (typical
numbers are in the .1-.4 range) and the intercept is -4 (typical
numbers are in the -20 to 10 range) and you are making 200 ft-lbs of
torque. You take 200*.2-4 or 36 psi TV pressure. Now, most transmission
have a minimum clip for pressure when you are not shifting so you
cannot run the trans below a certain pressure. From the above example
you can see why making sure the EEC calculates the correct torque is
important. The b value in the equation, or intercept is
trans_pressure_offset_x_gear, where x is the gear you are in at that
time. The slope value, of m term in the equation, is
trans_nonshift_slope_x, where x is the gear that you are in at that
time.
Now when you are shifting, it's a little different. It has a separate
set of slopes for each upshift and downshift. Other than unique slopes
the torque input part of shifting pressure is the same, other than
where it gets it's torque from... These slopes are
trans_upshift_slope_x where x is the gear you are shifting into and
trans_downshift_slope_x where x is the gear that you are shifting into.
When and engine is slowed down, during that transient, torque rises.
This is why a car can get rubber on an upshift. That inertia from the
engine results in a temporary rise in torque coming out of the
transmission. When and engine is accelerated, the engine uses it's
torque to accelerate itself, so torque actually drops during this
transient. The EEC takes these into account.
During an upshift, the engine speed is going to drop, assuming no
torque converter slip, by the ratio of the gear you are going to
divided by the gear you are coming from. On a 1-2 shift in a 4R70W the
ratio would be 1.55/2.84, or .55. So, if you are at 6000 rpm, the
engine speed, again assuming no converter slip, would drop to 55*6000,
or 3300 rpm. Now it never really drops this much since you are
accelerating through the shift, the input shaft of the trans is coming
up and there is converter slip, but you have to assume something. So,
now it takes the amount the engine speed has to drop, 6000-3300 or 2700
RPM, and basically multiplies it by a value (this is not exactly what
happens but for our discussion, let's say it is). The result of this
calculation results in a torque value that gets added to the calculated
engine torque, which is then multiplied by torque converter torque
ratio for the total torque going into that shift. On a downshift the
inertia term results in a negative torque, thus reducing pressure
during a downshift.
So now you have an engine torque that gets an inertia torque added to
it and then you determine an amount of static shifting TV pressure for
the shift. The next part of shifting pressure is user input pressure.
There are several things that get added together to make the user input
TV pressure number. I'll cover a few the more important ones.
There is a user input TV pressure table for each shift, trans
trans_TV_pressure_xy where xy is the shift you want to change, like a
1-2 shift of a 2-3 shift. These tables are throttle position across the
X-axis and vehicle speed across the Y-axis. The output of this table is
the dynamic pressure for that shift. In some of the older software
these are just functions of throttle position on the X-axis and added
pressure on the Y-axis. There are things like blip pressures, stroke
pressure, TV ramps, pressure profiling, and some other adders that all
get added together to make the total dynamic TV contribution.
Now, user input TV is added to torque input shifting capacity TV to end
up with total TV for the shift.
In the tables, the far left column is used for all closed throttle
shifts, both upshifts and downshifts.
If you want to make a shift firmer, just add pressure to the tables.
The throttle position across the X-axis is A/D counts. Typically 750 is
WOT for TP_REL, throttle position relative to closed throttle. The
vehicle speed is ratio'd from the stock axle ratio divided by the axle
ratio you have in there now.
During shifts, the EEC can reduce engine torque. This is done either
via spark retard or shutting of fuel injectors. In most cases shutting
this off makes the shifts firmer and the vehicle performance improves.
On some of the E4OD and 4R100 transmission, if you disable the torque
reduction the shifts get softer since the transmission does not have
enough capacity to stop the oncoming clutch with the power its making.
In these cases, you should reduce the amount of torque that is reduced
during the shift. In the some software there are two ways to disable
this torque reduction, setting trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod to 900 or
setting trans_min_ECT_for_torque_mod to 250 will disable this
reduction. In some versions of software there will be these two values
plus two others that need to be set to 900,
trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod_upshift and
trans_min_tp_for_torque_mod_downshift.
If you do not want to shut off the torque reduction and just want to
reduce it, then you can change the amount in the torque reduction
tables. These tables are a percent of total torque you want the engine
to have. A value of .8 means you want the engine to have 80% of its
normal torque, or a 20% reduction. These tables are specific for each
shift and are as follows, trans_tqmod_xy where xy is the shift you want
to change. A 1-2 shift would be trans_tqmod_12.
The shift schedule is pretty straightforward. There are functions for
each upshift and downshift, trans_shift_schedule_xy where xy is the
shift. These are throttle position relative to closed throttle vs. what
speed to shift at. You must make sure that the pair of shift curves do
NOT cross. For example, you cannot have the 1-2 and 2-1 shift curves
cross. If they do, the trans will most likely just shift back and forth
at a fairly high frequency in the range that they cross.
It is also recommended that you keep the existing shift schedule for
that vehicle and just modify it. Making a whole new schedule is very
difficult and probably won't work right.
The same applies to the torque converter lock schedule, make sure they
don't cross. At WOT, a locked up torque converter WILL transmit more
torque to the wheels than an open converter, period. So, it is
recommended to have the converter locked at WOT in all gears. Some of
the older 5.0L Mustangs with AODE's had the torque converter locking at
light throttle in 2nd gear to increase fuel economy. It is recommended
to eliminate this to improve the driveability of the car. To eliminate
this, just raise the MPH points so that they are very high and it will
no longer lock. You can then step the curve down at heavy throttle
positions so that it is allowed to lock up at WOT.
To also improve driveability of the vehicle, it is recommended to take
the 3-4-shift schedule and paste it into the 3rd gear lock function,
trans_converter_lock_3rd. This prevents the torque converter from
locking in 3rd gear before the 3-4 shift and will generally improve the
feel of the car when driving it.
At WOT, the trans shifts off of one of two things. Either the vehicle
speed that is in the shift schedule functions or the WOT engine speed
scalars, trans_wot_shift_xy, where xy is the shift, like 12. What this
means, in most cases, is that this is where the shift is COMMANDED and
not where it will occur. In some transmissions it can take up to one
second to fill the on coming clutch. If the engine is accelerating at
1000 RPM per second (not unusual for low gear with a 3.73 ratio) that
means that from the commanded of the shift to the actual shift point,
the RPM will increase by 1000 rpm. So, if you set the
trans_wot_shift_12 to 5000 rpm, the shift could occur 6000 rpm. This is
important to know when setting up WOT shift points.
There is an excel spreadsheet to allow the graphing and calculation of
shift points.
Now the tricky part. The vehicle speed in the shift functions is not
always the actual vehicle speed that the speedometer shows. Here is
why.
First there is a parameter called N/V, say N over V (this actually
shows up on the dynojet software right before you click OK, to a graph
with all the values on it). This is the engine speed (N) over the
vehicle speed (V) of the vehicle in direct drive ratio of the trans
(typically 3rd gear in a 4 speed trans). A typical 3.27 axle ratio
Mustang has an N/V of 44.5, meaning that in 3rd gear (with an auto) for
every 44.5 increase in engine RPM, you get a 1 MPH increase in speed.
Now, the transmission shift schedule is setup for a certain N/V, this
is called trans_Base_N/V_of_Vehicle. There is another value on some
older cars called trans_4_times_NVBASE. This value will either be 4
times or 10 times the trans_Base_N/V_of_Vehicle. You'll have to look at
the production file to see if it's 4 times of 10 times. If you want to
change trans_Base_N/V_of_Vehicle then you'll also need to change this
values, if it's there, by either 4 or 10 times
trans_Base_N/V_of_Vehicle.
Now, all the MPH's in the shift and lock schedules are based on this
trans_Base_N/V_of_Vehicle. So, if you change the axle ratio what
happens?
Assuming there is range in learning, and this will be covered later, it
adjusts if you give it the right information. On, the cars where the
EEC sends the vehicle speed info out to the cluster this means changing
the axle ratio value in the software. On cars with vehicle speed
sensors, this means changing the speedo gear so that the speedo reads
correctly. This is important since the EEC always assumes that the
vehicle speed is correct.
So, let's say you put a 3.73 axle in a Mustang that was setup for a
3.27. The MPH's in the shift and lock functions are ratio'd by the
trans_Base_N/V_of_Vehicle divided by the current calculated N/V of the
vehicle. The EEC is smart enough to calculate a new N/V based on the
driveshaft speed (which it knows since it has a sensor to measure this)
and then divides this by what it thinks the vehicle speed is. The EEC
now treats this at the real N/V of the vehicle. In this example, the
N/V of a 3.73 axle Mustang with production tire diameter, is about
50.5. So, it would take a ratio of 44.5 divided by 50.5 to get a ratio
of .88. So, it now takes all the MPH's in the shift and lock functions
and multiplies them by .88. So, if you had a shift setup to be at 50
MPH, with this axle change, it would be at 50 * .88 or 44 MPH. There is
an Excel spreadsheet to calculate N/V and Tire Rev per Mile in the
software package and a spreadsheet to plot the shift curves.
The min and max correction allowed can be changed.
Trans_Min_learned_N/V is the min correction, set this to .75 and
trans_Max_learned_N/V is the max correction, set this to 1.25.
There are a few other shift point values that are available to change.
Trans_2-1_pullin_max_speed
This is the speed to allow the trans to shift into low gear when the
shifter is placed in manual 1.
Trans_3-2_pullin_max_speed
This is the speed to allow the trans to shift into 2nd gear when the
shifter is placed in manual 2.
Trans_vs_o/d_cancel_override
Above this vehicle speed, if the OD cancel button is pressed so the
driver has the vehicle in 3rd gear, the OD Off light will go out and
the transmission will shift into 4th gear. Make this value 127.5
Trans_man_shift_12_limit
Above this RPM, the transmission will shift out of manual 1 and into
second gear even though the shift was not moved. To prevent this from
happening, set this RPM above the engine rev limiter.
Trans_Tm_Sequence_thru_3rd_P4
This is the time the EEC must be commanding 3rd gear before letting the
trans shift into 4th gear. This value should be at least 1-1.5 seconds.
Trans_Tm_Sequence_thru_2nd_P4
This is the time the EEC must be commanding 2nd before it will command
3rd. This value can be lowered to zero but should be around .5 - 1.0
seconds.
Trans_Tm_Sequence_in_man1
On some older applications, when you put the shifter into manual low,
it delays the engagement into low by a long time, even though you are
below the trans_2-1_pullin_max_speed. Make sure this timer is at or
near zero.
Trans_Tm_Sequence_in_man2
See above explanation of manual shifts into 1, this is the same thing
but into position two.
There is also a way to unlock the torque converter based on how fast
the throttle is moved in or out. This can cause the converter to unlock
when the drive may not be expecting it too. It is recommended to make
this none functional. Make trans_thrtl_rate_lowTP_in and
trans_thrtl_rate_hiTP_in to values of 500 and make
trans_thrtl_rate_lowTP_out and trans_thrtl_rate_hiTP_out to -500.
Shifting pressure was briefly mentioned before. There is either a
function of TP vs. added pressure for each shift, or a table of TP on
the X-axis and vehicle speed on the Y-axis for added pressure during
the shift. These functions/tables are trans_TV_pressure_xy, where xy is
the shift you want to add pressure too. For example,
trans_TV_pressure_12 is added pressure for a 1-2 shift. Normally adding
10 psi to the 1-2 shifts makes them noticeably firmer. To get this same
result on the 2-3 shift you need to add about 15 psi and for the 3-4
shift adding 10 has similar results. For maximum firmness at WOT, make
the high TP columns near WOT, about 650+ TP, all 99's. This will ensure
max pressure for WOT shifts.
In some of the newer transmissions, the EEC measures the time it takes
the clutch to apply and then the shifting pressure adjusted so the time
it takes the clutch to apply is within a target range. These target
values are in tables like trans_Tagret_slip_time_xy, where xy is the
shift that that table controls. The value in these tables are in
milliseconds. To make a shift firmer, make these values smaller. I'd
move them in 100-150 millisecond increments.
On some older software versions and applications, ramps were used to
ramp pressure in or out during a shift. These ramps are
trans_TV_Ramp_xyshift, where xy is the shift that pressure is being
ramped into or out of. Just check these values to make sure there is
not a large negative number in there. If there is, then as you try to
add pressure, this will take the pressure back out. I'd make all these
values zero or positive numbers.
When manually shifting from 1 to 2, to make the shift firmer on some
cars, make trans_manual_12 zero. This changes the way pressure gets
calculated during 1-2 shifts.
To make engagements faster there are two functions that control the
pressure in the trans when the vehicle speed is zero. If you change the
zero to low TP area of these functions, it will change the pressure the
engagement is made on. These functions are trans_stall_curve_F for
pressure into Drive and trans_stall_curve_R for pressure into Reverse.
For pressure into drive, I'd make the value about 20 for a quick
engagement and for reverse the value should be around 25.
Torque converter lockup feel/function.
The EEC controls the rate at which the torque converter can be ramped
on. There are quite a few parameters to change.
trans_Lockup_rate_w/high_TP controls the rate the converter locks when
at high throttle positions. trans_Lockup_rate_after_upshift is the rate
at which the converter locks after an upshift and
trans_Lockup_rate_after_tip_in is the rate at which the converter locks
up after a tip in from closed throttle or any other time not covered by
the other two. Larger numbers are faster lockups. A stock converter can
have these numbers increased by 50-100%. Different model years used
different types of values in these scalars so don't be surprised from
one vehicle to another that the numbers may be very different.
Aside from the above values that control lockup rate, the following
also control the rate, trans_slip_rate, trans_slip_rate_low_TP and
trans_slip_rate_shifts. To make the lockup under these conditions
faster, make these values smaller. Good values for these to start with
are around .2
Some vehicles allow steady state slip across the torque converter. This
is bad, it just generates heat and no good can come from it. The
following 3 tables determine how much steady state slip the converter
will try to control to, trans_tqconv_slip_2nd, _3rd and _4th. Make the
values in these tables zero's.
Some vehicles will also slip the converter for the A/C clutch apply,
again no good can come of it. Setting the following two values to zero
makes this go away, trans_ac_slip and trans_ac_slip_watchdog.
During shifts, the torque converter can also slip. The amount of slip
during a shift is trans_Slip_during_shift. This value can be made
either zero of 8 rpm.
trans_Min_Speed_Ratio_to_lock
This is a ratio of transmission input shaft speed divided by engine
speed, to allow the converter to lock. If you are below this value the
converter will not lock up. A good value for this is around .85.
trans_Tm_dealy_lockup_at_tipin
When coming in from closed throttle, this is a time delay to lock the
converter. A good value for this is around 2 seconds.
trans_Tm_remained_locked_CT
This is a time to keep the converter locked at closed throttle.
There are several values for minimum transmission shifting pressure.
They are specific for each gear and are for either power on (P/on),
power off (P/off) or non-shifting. The none shifting values should all
be around 30 to ensure enough line pressure to hold all the clutches
on. The power off values should be around 10-20 psi and the power on
values should be around 20 psi. These are trans_min_TV_P/off_into_1st,
trans_min_TV_P/on_into_1st, and trans_min_TV_nonshift_1st. Are the
values for 1st gear.

[Xtreme Limits]

Now ive read that over an over an so far i only get the jist of 25%, i am thinking if i were to have tweecer installed i would be sure to pick it up.... I hope lol....
But im still not sure one hand i got Tweecer an the other the Baumannator?

The main thing about the Baumannator is it has a paddel shift option (and for me being handycap would be the only manual way to shift a auto tranny) but from what i heard its like a 1-2seconds delay from pushing the button an the tranny actualy shifting, if so, i think tweecer is our best bet!

Damit all i want is F1 CAR Shift quickness is that to much to ask for,LOL!
In the fall/spring i want to rebuild the tranny a.k.a. 8 clutchs, J-mod/shift kit

Did u find out about the wire diagram?

[SilverFoxbody]

Hmmm....so nosmatt is the big dog tranny guy on the corral huh.....oh thats fine, not like I havn't posted or nothing...

anyway I am here to see what Macx has going on...tryin gto keep up. I have been too involved in AOD **** - time to wrap that up and get the skinny on 4R upgrades and throw the AODs out.

[Xtreme Limits]

Originally Posted by SilverFoxbody

Hmmm....so nosmatt is the big dog tranny guy on the corral huh.....oh thats fine, not like I havn't posted or nothing...

anyway I am here to see what Macx has going on...tryin gto keep up. I have been too involved in AOD **** - time to wrap that up and get the skinny on 4R upgrades and throw the AODs out.

Yep AOD=T5=Pain in the ass !
I figure ill over build my engine an tranny, so i can beat the crap out of it when i do drive it And guess what it should hold no problem
Hmmm.... now where to find cheap/free Gas,lol.