BlackVert's DIY water injection thread

BlackVert · #1 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 12:49 PM

i plan to to screw one of these nozzles backwards into one of these bushings:

and then screw that into my intake. there is already a fairly good sized hole in the intake for the bushing. i am hoping the head of the nozzle isn't too big to fit through the hole in my intake.

for the pump, i'm going to try using a windshield washer pump at first.

i will turn it on and off by hand (at least for now) with a little switch in the cabin.
*edit* i think i should use the above hobbs switch instead *edit*

i will try attaching the pump to the nozzle with a rubber hose and a zip tie.

sounds pretty ghetto, huh?

costs so far:

Code:

$17 - universal windshield washer pump
 11 - 2 nozzles (McMaster-Carr, #s 3178K63, 3178K75)
 24 - hobbs switch (ATP turbo, #ATP-BCS-003)
  5 - 5 feet of rubber hose
  2 - switch from Radio Shack
-----
 59 - within my budget, so far.

**haulbalz** · #2 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 12:57 PM

I WANNA KNOW HOW THIS TURNS OUT

**tmoss** · #3 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 01:16 PM

what will activate the Hobbs?

BlackVert · #4 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoss

what will activate the Hobbs?

boost pressure from the blower

**tmoss** · #5 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 01:48 PM

give it a shot, good old fashioned shade tree mechanic stuff. Be sure you know how much water is being injected (flow into a measuring bowl) and about what the rate should be.

**94TURBO5 O** · #6 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 04:15 PM

LOL I was ready to inject that blower and tap the nozzles 2 days before it came off. Do you already know where to tap the nozzles?

**Don 95Vert** · #7 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 04:30 PM

Yellow95 over at the Corral (Gary Gant) and I designed a DIY water injection setup years ago - if you need some tech about that, check out my web page (http://www.lasotaracing.com) and go to the tech articles - I moved the tech article over there.

The McMaster Carr nozzles work very well - I think I used a 5M for my KB when I had it. I also used a bushing, but I made it myself. Its called a 'hex nipple' and you can get it in any hardware store - get a 1/4" hex nipple, then tap the inside part for 1/8" NPT thread - the sprayer will screw right in - I ALWAYS used red Loctite so it never came apart. I also show on the website where we found one of the best areas to inject before the blower. Since then a couple of people have injected in the discharge manifold with good results. The 5M nozzle at 14# of boost dropped my ACTs from probably close to 300* to just under 200*.

Hope this helps you all out.
Don

BlackVert · #8 (**permalink**) 02-28-06, 08:14 PM

i probably should include a solenoid ... add $13 more to the total ..

http://www.poweraire.com/products/va...valve-mini.php

Code:

$17 - universal windshield washer pump
 13 - Solenoid (PowerAire #2MS10/3212DC)
 11 - 2 nozzles (McMaster-Carr, #s 3178K63, 3178K75)
 24 - hobbs switch (ATP turbo, #ATP-BCS-003)
  5 - 5 feet of rubber hose
-----
 70 - within my budget, so far.

if i get to $100, then i might abort and decide it's not the savings. in that cas, i'd get the stage 2 system from snow performance and be done with it.

donkey_punch · #9 (**permalink**) 03-01-06, 08:43 AM

this should help you out some. http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html
i hope to one day put something together.

take pics and let us know how it turns out.

later
joe

BlackVert · #10 (**permalink**) 03-02-06, 01:59 PM

The nozzles got here from McMaster-Carr in 1 day

The nozzle is 1/8" NPT and it fits in the 1/4" x 1/8" bushing (in the first picture) that fits in the port on the blower, but the threads don't go all the way through, so I can't put it in backwards yet. Also, the head of the nozzle is too big to fit thru the hole, so I'll have to grind it if I want to use it in the blower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94TURBO5 O

LOL I was ready to inject that blower and tap the nozzles 2 days before it came off. Do you already know where to tap the nozzles?

There is already a 1/4" NPT threaded tap on the vacuum side of the blower. I'm hoping to use that. I'm using it now for the PCV, but I can TEE that into either the tree or the emissions vacuums that are using the other 2 ports.

Quote:

Originally Posted by haulbalz

I WANNA KNOW HOW THIS TURNS OUT

It turns out that Eades (Chris) is selling his Snow Stage 2 kit, and the price is good enough that I have decided to take his and be done with it. And the Snow nozzles don't have the problem with the heads not fitting through the hole, so I won't need to machine the nozzle either

I still plan to complete my kit as time permits though, installing it before the throttle body for fun and to compare it to the Snow Kit. I might end up using mine for cooling (water only) under normal driving and the Snow kit (with methanol) for when it is under boost ...

BlackVert · #11 (**permalink**) 03-03-06, 09:48 PM

it's alive!

BlackVert · #12 (**permalink**) 03-08-06, 11:03 AM

My goal for my DIY injection system is to cool the intake charge under normal driving conditions (not WOT).

To that end, I want to be able to have it inject my "liquid of choice" under the following conditions:

- when the voltage from the ACT is over some value I can control with a dial (e.g. - 3.2 volts)
- when the voltage from the MAF is over some other value I can control with a dial (e.g. - 1.6 volts)

I am working on the circuit for that, and I think I am pretty close, but I am still messing around with it.

So far, here are the components in the circuit:

- 1 POTENTIOMETER for the ACT threshold dial
- 1 POTENTIOMETER for the MAF threshold dial
- 2 OP-AMPs (in a single IC) to detect when the ACT and MAF voltages reach their thresholds
- 2 NPN TRANSISTORs to AND the signals from the OP-AMPs together
- 2 RESISTORs to force the current across the TRANSISTORs to the RELAY (not thru the bases)
- 1 RELAY to provide power to the secondary circuit (with the pump)
- 1 LED to tell me when the PUMP is activated

I am currently using POTENTIOMETERs to simulate the outputs of the MAF and the ACT.

I have it turning on the LED at the right time

, but I have no confidence in it yet.

I'll post a schematic later when I can ...

**tmoss** · #13 (**permalink**) 03-08-06, 11:32 AM

cool stuff - keep it comming.......

BlackVert · #14 (**permalink**) 03-08-06, 11:59 AM

Here's the schematic:

The 2 POTs are how you adjust the trigger voltages for the ACT and MAF

So far, I have burned up one op-amp and a potentiometer on my breadboard ...

**tmoss** · #15 (**permalink**) 03-08-06, 12:31 PM

cool - remove the ground symbol from your POS will ya

BlackVert · #16 (**permalink**) 03-08-06, 03:23 PM

lol, i'm not up to par on the symbols yet.

BlackVert · #17 (**permalink**) 03-08-06, 07:26 PM

This one is more accurate ...

BlackVert · #18 (**permalink**) 03-10-06, 01:29 PM

geez, i thought at least one EE type would have a comment or two

Zero Signal · #19 (**permalink**) 03-10-06, 02:06 PM

Yeah too bad my brother isn't on these boards. I can't wait to see how it works out!

**tmoss** · #20 (**permalink**) 03-11-06, 09:40 AM

How finicky is the pot adjustment? How many turns pot did you use - 1 turn, 10 turn,?

BlackVert · #21 (**permalink**) 03-11-06, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoss

How finicky is the pot adjustment? How many turns pot did you use - 1 turn, 10 turn,?

right now, they are a one turn pots with resistors to bring the range from 0 to 5 volts.

BlackVert · #22 (**permalink**) 03-23-06, 03:15 PM

I have developed a generic "voltage switch" board that can select one of two circuits based on whether an input voltage is higher than a reference voltage. If the input voltage is lower than the reference voltage, circuit one is enabled; if it is higher, circuit two is enabled.

This is going to prove extremely useful in the long run. You can use it to turn anything you want on or off based on a signal from any sensor.

I am going to use two of them for this project: one for the MAF sensor and one for the ACT sensor. When the input voltage from both sensors are higher than their respective reference voltages, the water pump will be turned on.

I'll probably use another one to monitor the water level and turn on a LED when it is almost empty.