[Adam95GT]

Hey guys... here is the saturn i picked up... it still looks decent its the SC2 1999 im the second owner aparently it looks good but shakes bad at idle other then that its a great car.... i havent noticed any smoke maybe just a tiny bit after its been sitting... but thats about it.... here is some pics and videos of the car and problems... I got it for only $1250 though.... talked the owner down from $2100 lets hope its an easy fix














So far i think it may either be iac or the EGR.... maybe a mount... it runs 2 nice to be a head problem and the coolant looks clean... in the second video when i slow down to turn you can hear a knocking sound... that isnt the engine... thats the muffler shaking...

[gcomfx.com]

It's about out of gas, that's why it's sputtering. LOL

No really, do you know if the timing chain/belt whatever it has, has ever been changed? Does the serpentine belt move any?

[Adam95GT]

timing chain is origional i think... think its about to jump???

[OrangeMustangGt]

needs a turbo!! look at that header begging

[gcomfx.com]

Originally Posted by Adam95GT

timing chain is origional i think... think its about to jump???

Sounds kinda loud in the vid? Might throw some lucas oil additive in the next oil change.

[Bens95cobra8594]

Adam -
Much easier format... tnx.

Check plugs for carbon tracking and age. Wires may be junk too. They are usually dated when they are made...

That torque axis mt does look poor, but that wouldn't cause jumping around like that.
Coolant temp sensors are notorious as are Idle Air Control valves and sticky throttle bodies. If you take off the intake hose and see a LOT of carbon built up in there... go to town with brake clean and a rag and maybe screwdriver (CAREFULLY and after you remove the sucker from the car, so no further carbon gets inside the intake).
PCV valve and hose may need replacement too, check for cracked vacuum line coming out of PCV (it's pointed toward gauge cluster, sort of behind engine near cowl, about 2" long and black).
Probably needs a muffler strap, that's the banging noise. They should be like $60-$70.
Check and/or test all that stuff and you should have a cherry ride.

The timing chains never need replacement if they were maintained well, but since it has a chain and it's a hot-running 4 banger, they run hot and can consume oil. So if oil changes were kept regular and oil wasn't let low, it shouldn't jump teeth. If oil and changes were bad, may cause excessive wear on the timing chain guides, but start with the above issues first.

+2 on the Lucas additive. I ended up using it on my plow truck for the trans and it works, not just a snake oil anymore.

[Bosko5.0]

don't forget O2's. check balancer. also check the motor mounts .

[Adam95GT]

i bought new plugs and wires.... and some carb cleaner... ill take a crack at it tomorrow....

[Adam95GT]

it made the 60 mile trip from school to home.... i did a launch and all i heard was the exhaust smacking the car... i think there is a mount broken somewhere

[94 Cobra 5.0]

good gas saver, i worked at a saturn dealer for about a year and have seen many with 200,000 mi plus on them.
now for the bad
1. manual transmissions above 60,000 mi have a nasty problem of the input shaft seal going bad and taking out the clutch. wouldnt be much of a problem if the transmission was like the t-5 except in order to change the seal you have to disassemble the trans because the seal is pressed in from the other side.
2. egr valves like to go out and they are a dealer only item and cost about $160.
3. your surging might be coming from the coolant temp sensor. check that first before getting the egr.
4. dont put any other plug except the dealer plugs in the car. sorry to say but from the things that i have seen with those cars misfire codes pop with non saturn plugs.
5. plugs wires good move for ovious reasons.
6. if your getting a hell of a vibration the upper motor mount is the likely suspect. easy to check and they cost about $70

other than that they are great cars when they are taken care of just like anything else. good luck and hope the info helps.

[StangGT1995]

Moved to Other Auto Tech. May get more help down here.

[Adam95GT]

Plugs and wires changed... removed the TB cleaned it and the IAC out started the car with no TB to see if i could see the iac working... no cel but i went to autozone and checked codes... i got random missfire... TPS... and maf.... tps is probally from me removing it... cleared codes and now the SERVICE ENGINE light is on (not the check engine light).... car still shakes pretty bad... next moves anyone??? muffler strap was broken and welded on to the muffler... hence the banging... car still idles horrible... just got the oil out... it looks ok kinda dark... the plugs that i took out were weird 2 were black the other 2 were kinda whiteish.... i hope its not a head problem....

[Adam95GT]

Originally Posted by 94 Cobra 5.0

good gas saver, i worked at a saturn dealer for about a year and have seen many with 200,000 mi plus on them.
now for the bad
1. manual transmissions above 60,000 mi have a nasty problem of the input shaft seal going bad and taking out the clutch. wouldnt be much of a problem if the transmission was like the t-5 except in order to change the seal you have to disassemble the trans because the seal is pressed in from the other side.
2. egr valves like to go out and they are a dealer only item and cost about $160.
3. your surging might be coming from the coolant temp sensor. check that first before getting the egr.
4. dont put any other plug except the dealer plugs in the car. sorry to say but from the things that i have seen with those cars misfire codes pop with non saturn plugs.
5. plugs wires good move for ovious reasons.
6. if your getting a hell of a vibration the upper motor mount is the likely suspect. easy to check and they cost about $70

other than that they are great cars when they are taken care of just like anything else. good luck and hope the info helps.

EGR valve is at autozone for $93 in stock... i dont have alot of cash to just go throwing parts at it however

[Bens95cobra8594]

Originally Posted by 94 Cobra 5.0

good gas saver, i worked at a saturn dealer for about a year and have seen many with 200,000 mi plus on them.
now for the bad
1. manual transmissions above 60,000 mi have a nasty problem of the input shaft seal going bad and taking out the clutch. wouldnt be much of a problem if the transmission was like the t-5 except in order to change the seal you have to disassemble the trans because the seal is pressed in from the other side.
2. egr valves like to go out and they are a dealer only item and cost about $160.
3. your surging might be coming from the coolant temp sensor. check that first before getting the egr.
4. dont put any other plug except the dealer plugs in the car. sorry to say but from the things that i have seen with those cars misfire codes pop with non saturn plugs.
5. plugs wires good move for ovious reasons.
6. if your getting a hell of a vibration the upper motor mount is the likely suspect. easy to check and they cost about $70

other than that they are great cars when they are taken care of just like anything else. good luck and hope the info helps.

Adam -

From what I remember. , the service wrench light means something catastrophic happened (or is happening). I could be wrong about this though, I forgot what lights comes on for routine maintenance, but sort of looks scary. I thought they changed this in the 00 or 01 model year though...
My best advice would be to check with the dealer (I know, I know, grab your ankles). They would be able to tell you what the light is.
AutoZone may be able to scan the computer again and see what the dilly is though.

I am little hazy about this, but I think two misfire codes you don't really have to worry about (esp with new plugs and wires) are 340 and 341. They are real common on Saturns, esp when it's damp outside.

I am a little worried about the two black looking plugs though... that may be indicative of internal engine issues. Head gaskets are not that common on those cars, but what is common is worn piston rings and worn valve seals; especially if maintenance wasn't up to par.

On the flip side, if there is no excessive engine wear inside, those little engines are pretty darn reliable and infinitely rebuildable with a ton of parts available at cheap prices.

So for now: check what the codes are and go from there. A new EGR may possibly cause bucking, but probably not at idle, unless it is completely clogged. Even if it was clogged, the idle shouldn't jump around like that. I wouldn't dump the $93 on it just yet.

[Bens95cobra8594]

Oh, the other thing I agree with 94 Cobra 5.0 on is the CTS. They are strange little things that work well when the do, but cause MAJOR problems when they don't. They can also cause other codes that aren't really true... namely misfires and loads of throttle body codes (IAC, TPS, etc.).

It may be worth just replacing that little guy in order to get a good baseline and know that the computer is getting accurate data.

Especially in extreme weather (hot or cold) they cause issues. Middle of winter didn't do them well and hot summer same problem.

[Adam95GT]

Originally Posted by Bens95cobra8594

Adam -

From what I remember. , the service wrench light means something catastrophic happened (or is happening). I could be wrong about this though, I forgot what lights comes on for routine maintenance, but sort of looks scary. I thought they changed this in the 00 or 01 model year though...
My best advice would be to check with the dealer (I know, I know, grab your ankles). They would be able to tell you what the light is.
AutoZone may be able to scan the computer again and see what the dilly is though.

I am little hazy about this, but I think two misfire codes you don't really have to worry about (esp with new plugs and wires) are 340 and 341. They are real common on Saturns, esp when it's damp outside.

I am a little worried about the two black looking plugs though... that may be indicative of internal engine issues. Head gaskets are not that common on those cars, but what is common is worn piston rings and worn valve seals; especially if maintenance wasn't up to par.

On the flip side, if there is no excessive engine wear inside, those little engines are pretty darn reliable and infinitely rebuildable with a ton of parts available at cheap prices.

So for now: check what the codes are and go from there. A new EGR may possibly cause bucking, but probably not at idle, unless it is completely clogged. Even if it was clogged, the idle shouldn't jump around like that. I wouldn't dump the $93 on it just yet.

i think the missfire was a p0300... i cleared the ecu... and the service engine light was throwing no codes

[Adam95GT]

just drove it around for like 15 minutes... i think the wrench might of had something to do with me disconnecting the Code reader or something of the sort... because now its not comming on... another thing... when i turn the ac on it Completely kills the engine at idle... i dont know if that leads the problem to any specific region

[Darkwriter77]

FWIW, the "Check Engine Soon" light can be set off on any '96 or newer OBD-II compliant vehicle by something as minor as leaving the gas cap loose, or if the seal on the gas cap is leaking. I wouldn't exactly define that as something "catastrophic" in nature, but it will put a frown on your face when that light comes on... And that light usually will not go out on its own unless you either reset the ECM or use an OBD-II code reader to wipe the codes from memory. (However, it'll keep coming back on until you fix what's tripping the code, of course.)

Follow every single vacuum line from end to end that you can find on the car, and verify that none of the hard lines are cracked/broken and that none of the rubber portions have dry-rotted, split, or are otherwise leaking.

I've had experiences in the past with newer GM vehicles getting fussy when the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor craps out, and it had some symptoms similar to what you're describing - crappy idle, bucking/hesitation, and occasional stalling. Our 2200-series (2.2L four-banger) 2000 Chevy S-10 delivery truck had this issue, and we took it in several times to two different commercial accounts (Goodyear and some other place I can't remember) ... places that are supposedly dealer-service-certified, basically ... and they couldn't figure it out. Never seemed to throw any specific codes, either, and never touched off the CEL. Just on a whim, we swapped the IAT sensor from our other identical truck into it, and POOF! Suddenly, it was healed and ran like new. Plugged a brand new IAT in there and never had an issue with it, afterward. Might give that a try, if all else fails. A new IAT usually doesn't cost more than $25 at most places (Autozone, Advance Auto, etc.)

And IAC valve crapping out wouldn't explain the stumbling/misfire issue, but it could be contributing to the stalling. That's kind of a pricey piece to go replacing on a whim, though. I'd look into other alternatives, first, and eliminate everything else before spending the cash on one of those. Maybe even look for one you could use out of a junkyard Saturn, perhaps...?

[Adam95GT]

Originally Posted by Darkwriter77

FWIW, the "Check Engine Soon" light can be set off on any '96 or newer OBD-II compliant vehicle by something as minor as leaving the gas cap loose, or if the seal on the gas cap is leaking. I wouldn't exactly define that as something "catastrophic" in nature, but it will put a frown on your face when that light comes on... And that light usually will not go out on its own unless you either reset the ECM or use an OBD-II code reader to wipe the codes from memory. (However, it'll keep coming back on until you fix what's tripping the code, of course.)

Follow every single vacuum line from end to end that you can find on the car, and verify that none of the hard lines are cracked/broken and that none of the rubber portions have dry-rotted, split, or are otherwise leaking.

I've had experiences in the past with newer GM vehicles getting fussy when the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor craps out, and it had some symptoms similar to what you're describing - crappy idle, bucking/hesitation, and occasional stalling. Our 2200-series (2.2L four-banger) 2000 Chevy S-10 delivery truck had this issue, and we took it in several times to two different commercial accounts (Goodyear and some other place I can't remember) ... places that are supposedly dealer-service-certified, basically ... and they couldn't figure it out. Never seemed to throw any specific codes, either, and never touched off the CEL. Just on a whim, we swapped the IAT sensor from our other identical truck into it, and POOF! Suddenly, it was healed and ran like new. Plugged a brand new IAT in there and never had an issue with it, afterward. Might give that a try, if all else fails. A new IAT usually doesn't cost more than $25 at most places (Autozone, Advance Auto, etc.)

And IAC valve crapping out wouldn't explain the stumbling/misfire issue, but it could be contributing to the stalling. That's kind of a pricey piece to go replacing on a whim, though. I'd look into other alternatives, first, and eliminate everything else before spending the cash on one of those. Maybe even look for one you could use out of a junkyard Saturn, perhaps...?

its not the check engine light... saturns have another light it is service(wrench) light

[Adam95GT]

bad news.... i got raped... no compression in 2 cyls (1,2) i dont know if its a cracked head or a head gasket... i called my friend who works at a junk yard... he said $800-$1000 for an engine... aparently they are 99 specific... im screw... how do you tell if its the head or just a gasket...

[Adam95GT]

also.... how do i tell if its a cracked block... if its just a head gasket ill just get it done

[Adam95GT]

ben wanna take a drive to NJ to fix my car.... either one of them....

[94 Cobra 5.0]

check for the milkshake oil if its not nasty in there you might be alright with just slapping a head gasket on there. i would throw a coolant pressure checker on there and see if you start losing pressure. if you do you might have a cracked head. pull the valve cover off with the pressure checker on there and see what happens. more than likely your block is fine, but i have seen that head crack inbetween the #1 and #2 cylinders. hope all works out and hopefully its just the head gasket.

[Adam95GT]

i pulled the VC today and the top end looked really clean like someone actually took care of the car...i did an oil change the yesterday... it looked dark... but not really bad... i didnt notice coolant or anything.... im not loosing any...car is staying nice and cool.... is it possible for the gasket to go between the 2 pistons and not hit any coolant journals...???

[Adam95GT]

oil looked good i drained some out in to a clear container.... dark but not foamy still clear like