[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Since when are the corporation fat cat lobbyists, representing the people? Seems to me that article is intended for the average citizen, to have the right to question, or have their grievances heard by the gov against these leaches, or said gov. it is not intended to protect the multi million billion dollar special interest crowd, that have f***ed up the economy of THE PEOPLE. Look around man, 8 years of the Neo-Con deception, and their supporters raping this country is ENOUGH. The hypocrisy of those criminals is apparent, without having to spinn the constitution on their behalf, are you insane? Do you really think the constitution says it's ok for these F**ks to stomp the working man and hold the corporations and the lobbyist that work for them, in higher regard then the common man/women? I can't believe the levels of insane people will stoop to in order to justify this crap. Face it the Republican party has been HIJACKED, and has been in power for at least 8 years and has screwed it up, it and it's supporters have to take responsibility for the way this country is now, and realize they F**ked it up.Let's question these so called leaders, take your party back and away from these criminals. Have these people no shame? What does it say about the supporters of these criminals? Wake the F***k up already, and think about AMERICA, not the a-holes who got us into this mess. Jesus friking Christ, our country is in a crisis and you want to site the constitution to stick up for these GodDamned criminals? You people remind me of the abused wife, who will deny her torment till the death, it's sickening. It's sickening to watch the BS spinn on TV, to hear it on the radio, in the papers, and here, it is time to join together, everybody and say enough is MFing, enough, we are under the illusion that they have our best interest first? Don't vote for McCain, don't vote for Obama, let's vote for a third candidate, we need to send a message to these A-holes, we want our country back, and we are tired of the lies, and the privileged few only getting a fair shake and say in life, it's a damned insult to ALL of us, they don't give a crap about you, me or anybody but themselves and feed us a crock full of year after year, by them telling us what is good for us. I guarantee, most of these Bas***ds, are going to let this countries value tank while they invest in foreign currencies, and come back and buy it out for pennies on the dollar, and we are letting them do it by believing the BS, and arguing over who can F**k us over the least. We will never ever, change anything, anytime unless we rise up as a united peoples, and take back our nation right NOW. I gota take a break from this crap for a while before I bust a cranial vein

Case in point right here. It would appear that you're trying to start a "slow clap", only to come to the realization that you're the only one clapping.

You've completely bored us to death with your ridiculous attempts to pretend that you're an independent, yet all you do is slam Bush, Mccain, and every other Republican out there.

And dropping the f-bomb every other sentence only further reminds us that your dialect parallels that of a middle-schooler. What's that? I can't understand you? Did you say that Bush is a terrorist and he's behind 9/11? I'm sorry? Ron Paul is your candidate of choice yet you can't BE any more liberal? Oh, my bad. I didn't hear you. I thought I heard you say that the Palestinian terrorists were just mis-guided people.

Oh that's right...you DID.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by Wart

He's giving you the same chance.

I have a feeling that as soon as you start actually debating, or even make the attempt, so will others.

But Ikie, little one, you've thrown out your own insults so your not one to be making an issue of another pointing out your ignorance.

Your way past taking the high road.

I'm sorry Wartie...your what hurts? Oh, well it's probably because the rest of the room has made a habit of having their way with you. I'd try an icepack...see if that helps.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

I believe you're in the minority in this room poboy. The rest of us aren't busy trying to convince everybody else that our President was behind 9/11. Though I continually give you chance after chance to carry on a mild-mannered debate, you simply can't refrain from calling the other person ignorant and claiming that anyone who doesn't follow your childish "conspiracy theories" is blinded by the MSM (which is actually a liberal machine...like yourself). I even went so far as to apologize to you for categorizing you with Wart, and you've returned the favor several times by being the liberal douchebag that I suspected you were from the very beginning.

You're a complete waste of time poboy, and I will simply respond to you the same way I respond to Wart...as if I'm talking to a mentally-handicapped kindergartener. Thanks!




You're right. This country IS for Americans. So what are you doing here? Don't you know that Hamas is calling and they need their liberal douchebag back?

You should get going.

Alas it is no use debating with someone who's only intelligent response is " you're a douchebag" You must be really proud of yourself, having to strain so hard to come up with something so difficult to respond with and all. You are one sorry a** kid.

[EMW150]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Since when are the corporation fat cat lobbyists, representing the people? Seems to me that article is intended for the average citizen, to have the right to question, or have their grievances heard by the gov against these leaches, or said gov. it is not intended to protect the multi million billion dollar special interest crowd, that have f***ed up the economy of THE PEOPLE. Look around man, 8 years of the Neo-Con deception, and their supporters raping this country is ENOUGH. The hypocrisy of those criminals is apparent, without having to spinn the constitution on their behalf, are you insane? Do you really think the constitution says it's ok for these F**ks to stomp the working man and hold the corporations and the lobbyist that work for them, in higher regard then the common man/women? I can't believe the levels of insane people will stoop to in order to justify this crap. Face it the Republican party has been HIJACKED, and has been in power for at least 8 years and has screwed it up, it and it's supporters have to take responsibility for the way this country is now, and realize they F**ked it up.Let's question these so called leaders, take your party back and away from these criminals. Have these people no shame? What does it say about the supporters of these criminals? Wake the F***k up already, and think about AMERICA, not the a-holes who got us into this mess. Jesus friking Christ, our country is in a crisis and you want to site the constitution to stick up for these GodDamned criminals? You people remind me of the abused wife, who will deny her torment till the death, it's sickening. It's sickening to watch the BS spinn on TV, to hear it on the radio, in the papers, and here, it is time to join together, everybody and say enough is MFing, enough, we are under the illusion that they have our best interest first? Don't vote for McCain, don't vote for Obama, let's vote for a third candidate, we need to send a message to these A-holes, we want our country back, and we are tired of the lies, and the privileged few only getting a fair shake and say in life, it's a damned insult to ALL of us, they don't give a crap about you, me or anybody but themselves and feed us a crock full of year after year, by them telling us what is good for us. I guarantee, most of these Bas***ds, are going to let this countries value tank while they invest in foreign currencies, and come back and buy it out for pennies on the dollar, and we are letting them do it by believing the BS, and arguing over who can F**k us over the least. We will never ever, change anything, anytime unless we rise up as a united peoples, and take back our nation right NOW. I gota take a break from this crap for a while before I bust a cranial vein

So it's the Republican party that is responsible for all this?? What's your take on this? Morning Bell: The Left’s Crony Capitalism Exposed The Foundry

and this:
http://usconservatives.about.com/od/...ainLenders.htm

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

Case in point right here. It would appear that you're trying to start a "slow clap", only to come to the realization that you're the only one clapping.

You've completely bored us to death with your ridiculous attempts to pretend that you're an independent, yet all you do is slam Bush, Mccain, and every other Republican out there.

And dropping the f-bomb every other sentence only further reminds us that your dialect parallels that of a middle-schooler. What's that? I can't understand you? Did you say that Bush is a terrorist and he's behind 9/11? I'm sorry? Ron Paul is your candidate of choice yet you can't BE any more liberal? Oh, my bad. I didn't hear you. I thought I heard you say that the Palestinian terrorists were just mis-guided people.

Oh that's right...you DID.

Once again you are And you twist things around because you can't debate those things, you not only lack the intelligence to do so, and are woefully ignorant, but you run from debates like a sissy. It's best you stick to your sideline cheer leading, it'll keep you from constantly looking like an idiot.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by EMW150

So it's the Republican party that is responsible for all this?? What's your take on this? Morning Bell: The Left’s Crony Capitalism Exposed The Foundry

The Neo Conmen have had the White House and congress for years now, seems like if they wanted to do a little regulating they would have done so, the mess falls on their watch. And honestly, nobody seemed to be in a hurry to do anything about it. Even McCain is 2 faced about Fannie and Freddie.
McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections

John McCain railed against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the campaign trail today, saying that the CEOs that led the lenders to ruin "deserve nothing" and should have to pay back their severance packages. In an Wall Street Journal op-ed co-bylined by his vice presidential pick, Sarah Palin, McCain suggested bold reforms for Fannie and Freddie that would "terminate future lobbying, which was one of the primary contributors to this great debacle."

If that's the case, McCain should look first to his campaign staffers as the cause of that debacle. One of them was Fannie Mae's head of lobbying, and spread tens of millions of dollars around Washington in the form of lobbying contracts. A number of McCain staffers were on the receiving end of those contracts, collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each from the lenders to rep their interests. And McCain's campaign manager served as president of a lobbying association that fought to protect Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from the sort of regulation that McCain is now proposing.

In McCain's op-ed in the Journal, he and Palin wrote:

For years, Congress failed to act and it is deeply troubling that what we are seeing is an exercise in crisis management rather than sound planning, and at great cost to taxpayers.

We promise the American people that our administration will be different. We have long records of standing up to special interests…

But McCain's own campaign staffers are those special interests, a fact that casts doubt on both McCain's hiring judgment and his ability to pursue tough reforms of Fannie and Freddie.

Aquiles Suarez, listed as an economic adviser to the McCain campaign in a July 2007 McCain press release, was formerly the director of government and industry relations for Fannie Mae. The Senate Lobbying Database says Suarez oversaw the lending giant's $47,510,000 lobbying campaign from 2003 to 2006.

And other current McCain campaign staffers were the lobbyists receiving shares of that money. According to the Senate Lobbying Database, the lobbying firm of Charlie Black, one of McCain's top aides, made at least $820,000 working for Freddie Mac from 1999 to 2004. The McCain campaign's vice-chair Wayne Berman and its congressional liaison John Green made $1.14 million working on behalf of Fannie Mae for lobbying firm Ogilvy Government Relations. Green made an additional $180,000 from Freddie Mac. Arther B. Culvahouse Jr., the VP vetter who helped John McCain select Sarah Palin, earned $80,000 from Fannie Mae in 2003 and 2004, while working for lobbying and law firm O'Melveny & Myers LLP. In addition, Politico reports that at least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pocketing at least $12.3 million over the last nine years.

For years McCain campaign manager Rick Davis was head of the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, real estate agents, homebuilders, and non-profits. According to Politico, the organization opposed congressional attempts at regulation of Fannie and Freddie, along the lines of what John McCain is currently proposing. In his capacity of president of the group, Davis went on record in 2003 and insisted that no further reform of the lenders was necessary, in contradiction to his current boss's sentiments. "[Fannie and Freddie] are subject to an innovative and stringent risk-based capital stress test," Davis wrote. "The toughest in the financial services industry."

At a campaign rally Wednesday morning in Fairfax, Virginia, John McCain said that the heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ought to give back the millions of dollars they've earned. What about the lobbyists who helped Fannie and Freddie game the system? Maybe McCain can ask them — at the next campaign strategy meeting.

[EMW150]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

The Neo Conmen have had the White House and congress for years now, seems like if they wanted to do a little regulating they would have done so, the mess falls on their watch. And honestly, nobody seemed to be in a hurry to do anything about it.

Did you read both links? Who tried to clamp down on Fannie and Freddie two years ago?

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

and are woefully ignorant.

Ahhh yes, there it is again. Very nicely done pogirls, you've convinced me that I'm not nearly as smart as you once again.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

You are one sorry a** kid.

And I see that you've FINALLY figured out that there aren't any "z"'s in the word ass. I guess better late then never though, right little girl?

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

The Neo Conmen have had the White House and congress for years now, seems like if they wanted to do a little regulating they would have done so, the mess falls on their watch. And honestly, nobody seemed to be in a hurry to do anything about it. Even McCain is 2 faced about Fannie and Freddie.
McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections

John McCain railed against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the campaign trail today, saying that the CEOs that led the lenders to ruin "deserve nothing" and should have to pay back their severance packages. In an Wall Street Journal op-ed co-bylined by his vice presidential pick, Sarah Palin, McCain suggested bold reforms for Fannie and Freddie that would "terminate future lobbying, which was one of the primary contributors to this great debacle."

If that's the case, McCain should look first to his campaign staffers as the cause of that debacle. One of them was Fannie Mae's head of lobbying, and spread tens of millions of dollars around Washington in the form of lobbying contracts. A number of McCain staffers were on the receiving end of those contracts, collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each from the lenders to rep their interests. And McCain's campaign manager served as president of a lobbying association that fought to protect Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from the sort of regulation that McCain is now proposing.

In McCain's op-ed in the Journal, he and Palin wrote:

For years, Congress failed to act and it is deeply troubling that what we are seeing is an exercise in crisis management rather than sound planning, and at great cost to taxpayers.

We promise the American people that our administration will be different. We have long records of standing up to special interests…

But McCain's own campaign staffers are those special interests, a fact that casts doubt on both McCain's hiring judgment and his ability to pursue tough reforms of Fannie and Freddie.

Aquiles Suarez, listed as an economic adviser to the McCain campaign in a July 2007 McCain press release, was formerly the director of government and industry relations for Fannie Mae. The Senate Lobbying Database says Suarez oversaw the lending giant's $47,510,000 lobbying campaign from 2003 to 2006.

And other current McCain campaign staffers were the lobbyists receiving shares of that money. According to the Senate Lobbying Database, the lobbying firm of Charlie Black, one of McCain's top aides, made at least $820,000 working for Freddie Mac from 1999 to 2004. The McCain campaign's vice-chair Wayne Berman and its congressional liaison John Green made $1.14 million working on behalf of Fannie Mae for lobbying firm Ogilvy Government Relations. Green made an additional $180,000 from Freddie Mac. Arther B. Culvahouse Jr., the VP vetter who helped John McCain select Sarah Palin, earned $80,000 from Fannie Mae in 2003 and 2004, while working for lobbying and law firm O'Melveny & Myers LLP. In addition, Politico reports that at least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pocketing at least $12.3 million over the last nine years.

For years McCain campaign manager Rick Davis was head of the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, real estate agents, homebuilders, and non-profits. According to Politico, the organization opposed congressional attempts at regulation of Fannie and Freddie, along the lines of what John McCain is currently proposing. In his capacity of president of the group, Davis went on record in 2003 and insisted that no further reform of the lenders was necessary, in contradiction to his current boss's sentiments. "[Fannie and Freddie] are subject to an innovative and stringent risk-based capital stress test," Davis wrote. "The toughest in the financial services industry."

At a campaign rally Wednesday morning in Fairfax, Virginia, John McCain said that the heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ought to give back the millions of dollars they've earned. What about the lobbyists who helped Fannie and Freddie game the system? Maybe McCain can ask them — at the next campaign strategy meeting.

Make very sure you aren't being one-sided here.

McCain tried to help Fannie/Freddie about 3 years ago. His bill never made it out of committee.

Chris Dodd, then the ranking member of the Banking Committee and now its chair, was in the middle of receiving preferential loan treatment from Countrywide Mortgage, one of the companies gaming the system in the credit crisis. Meanwhile, Barack Obama took hundreds of thousands of dollars from the lobbyists McCain mentions in this speech, making him the #2 recipient of Fannie/Freddie money.

Update: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by EMW150

Did you read both links? Who tried to clamp down on Fannie and Freddie two years ago?

Yes I did and it surprised me. I am at a loss as to why this man would swing his opinions and be for such legislation, then turn around and associate himself and his campaign with people who were in cohoots with the Freedie Fannie debacle? I pasted a story about that , if you didn't read it here's the link:
MotherJones Blog: McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections
This mans hypocrisy runs deep.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by GT40XStang9

Make very sure you aren't being one-sided here.

McCain tried to help Fannie/Freddie about 3 years ago. His bill never made it out of committee.



Update: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Invest in Lawmakers

I replied to EMW150 about the same thing, surprising, and hypocritical IMO. MotherJones Blog: McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections

[poboys 94]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by GT40XStang9

Make very sure you aren't being one-sided here.

Here's some dirt on Obama, he's in bed with the bankers also, like I've suggested, neither of these men will bring positive change to this country, maybe different positions on how they screw us over, either way we still will be run by the bankers no matter who is in office.
Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Yes I did and it surprised me. I am at a loss as to why this man would swing his opinions and be for such legislation, then turn around and associate himself and his campaign with people who were in cohoots with the Freedie Fannie debacle? I pasted a story about that , if you didn't read it here's the link:
MotherJones Blog: McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections
This mans hypocrisy runs deep.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

I replied to EMW150 about the same thing, surprising, and hypocritical IMO. MotherJones Blog: McCain's Fannie and Freddie Connections

He was #20 on the list, receiving a mere fraction of what Obama was. The fact is, he saw the writing on the wall and tried to help them and his bill was shot down. For that, you're calling him a hypocrite.

McCain should have been the last person you brought up when talking about Fannie/Freddie. The two CEOs getting bailed out are advisers to which presidential nominee? Hint: It isn't McCain.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by GT40XStang9

He was #20 on the list, receiving a mere fraction of what Obama was. The fact is, he saw the writing on the wall and tried to help them and his bill was shot down. For that, you're calling him a hypocrite.

McCain should have been the last person you brought up when talking about Fannie/Freddie. The two CEOs getting bailed out are advisers to which presidential nominee? Hint: It isn't McCain.

One thing about me GT40X9 is that I do appreciate information, you know as well as I do that there's 2 sides to every story. I am so sick of these players lying or severely distorting things to get in power. I don't trust any of these people, they haven't shown to be 100% truthful and it is a shame they are what we have left to choose from. Did you read the link I posted though? I still feel McCains ties put him in a dubious position as far as real transparency of government is concerned. We can't take these guys for their word, if we don't check them out on everything we won't know the truth. Thanks

[poboys 94]

For whoever is interested, here's a link to a movie that sums up the danger to our society when a select few have influence on our law makers and our leaders in government. Though some may find it far fetched or even troubling, much of it is true and can be verified with a few investigative searches.
Wake Up Call - New World Order Documentary | 100777.com

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

One thing about me GT40X9 is that I do appreciate information, you know as well as I do that there's 2 sides to every story. I am so sick of these players lying or severely distorting things to get in power. I don't trust any of these people, they haven't shown to be 100% truthful and it is a shame they are what we have left to choose from. Did you read the link I posted though? I still feel McCains ties put him in a dubious position as far as real transparency of government is concerned. We can't take these guys for their word, if we don't check them out on everything we won't know the truth. Thanks

[Ike83]

Here's the thing...in my opinion. Almost EVERY politician is going to be involved in SOMETHING. It's a given. Especially if you've been in Congress for over 20 years.

But it seems that Mccain's scandals involve lobbyists, whereas Obama's scandals involve terrorists...and people who hate this country. Mccain will at least salute the American flag, whereas Obama won't. After being in Congress for 20 years, Mccain actually has proven to stand up against his own party when he feels it's the right thing to do, even though he's recently moved more towards the right (and so has Obama ). On the otherhand, Obama has been in the Senate for two years, and he's voted WITH his party 97% of the time. If you ask me, that's not CHANGE. That's not being a leader who will make the right decision when the pressure's on. That's just another typical liberal who wants to raise taxes and redistribute income...just like Joe Biden. On the flip-side, you have a ticket consisting of two candidates who are KNOWN to go against their party if it means fighting corruption and doing what's right. I mean, the WORST that the liberals can bring against Palin, is the fact that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant....BIG DEAL. If that's what we consider a scandal these days...then America's going to REALLY be in trouble with Obama in office. I'm just sayin.


But my point is, if you compare the two candidates, one should CLEARLY be more of a concern then the other. And even though I didn't vote for Mccain in the primary, I at LEAST feel that he's fit to run the country.

Just my .02.

[strtrcr50]

Originally Posted by Ike83

On the otherhand, Obama has been in the Senate for two years, and he's voted WITH his party 97% of the time. If you ask me, that's not CHANGE. That's not being a leader who will make the right decision when the pressure's on.

I don't believe that 97% number to be accurate. Source Please. Anyone who has looked at Obama's voting record knows he usually votes present, not for or against. That's the kind of voting record I can respect. A senator that won't make up his mind and vote for or against.
I think this may be my favorite thing Obama chose not to vote on.

Vote to pass an amendment to reaffirm support for all men and women of the United States Armed Forces, to strongly condemn any attacks on General David Petraeus and all members of the US Armed Forces and to specifically condemn Moveon.org's advertisement about General David Petraeus.

Way to support the troops *******.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

I don't believe that 97% number to be accurate. Source Please.

I wouldn't let you down homey. Just ask and ye shall receive.

Barack Obama | Congress votes database | washingtonpost.com

Barack Obama has voted with a majority of his Democratic colleagues 96.0% of the time during the current Congress. This percentage does not include votes in which Obama did not vote.

I'm sorry, I was off by 1%.

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

Anyone who has looked at Obama's voting record knows he usually votes present, not for or against.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Ever-'Present' Obama

Funny you bring that up. It appears Obama voted PRESENT on many tough issues when he was in the Illinois state senate. Like on the bill which would have prohibited strip clubs and other adult establishments from being built within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares. I mean, is that really even a tough decision right there?

I would think that ANY decent-minded person would respect the establishment of a church (whether you're religious or not), or at least a SCHOOL?!

Wouldn't you think? I don't know...maybe it's just me. Maybe I really am all twisted up in the brain for thinking that children shouldn't have to go to a daycare center next to "Wet Willy's".