[caballo]

Originally Posted by DBMSTNG

did you stash any of that 6 figure salary away for a rainy day fund? i wouldn't say you are irresponsible, but i do think with the salary you did make, and the lack of bills, you should have been (if you aren't) more prepared for a situation like the one you are in now.

way too many people in this country live paycheck to paycheck regardless of how much money they make.

Oh we had a nice little nest egg that got eaten up by medical bills for our son. Not the health industry's fault. Not the government's fault. Not our fault. Stuff happens.

The thing I don't get is, I tried for a solid two weeks to find a job and went on interviews. It took having dinner with a couple from Church telling me that I NEEDED to go file for unemployment before I did. I still haven't got anything out of it. They said it'll take up to six weeks. But here's the deal. BECAUSE I filed for unemployment they MADE us file for WIC, MEDICAID, AND FOODSTAMPS. My son with seizures qualified for Medicaid before hand and WIC because he was under a year old at the time. But they still wouldn't pick up the tab for the old bills. Which I didn't expect they would.

The thing I DON'T get, but it does make me see how EASY it would be to get people hooked on it. They gave us almost $700/month to feed a family of four. WHAT?! In a GOOD month we might spend $500 to feed ourselves, but the average was around $350- $400.

I hate NEEDING help. but it's the way it is.

My whole point was, not ALL people want or stay on welfare/entitlements.

[5.0_GT_kid]

Originally Posted by timeless2

To be honest, we don't get as much snow here as they used to 25 to 30 years ago. The jet stream brings down more Artic air mass, but most of the precipitation drawn up from the gulf pushes east of where I'm located (the Omaha metro area). Central and Eastern Iowa, Wisconsin, and Northern Illinois got a lot more snow and rain this past year than we did.

I think at one point, we might have had 6 inches at once and that was our "big" storm of this past winter.
As for mountains being nearby, there are none in the "backyard" so to speak, but I do live in the Loess Hills (Google it) and there are still some pretty fun slopes to ski and tube down.

Totally. It's all about the three truisms of real estate: location, location, location.

Good point.

Just an FYI, I will probably be moving back to Omaha/Council Bluffs after being gone for over 6 years.

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

Sorry, but I have to say it... Why would somebody have 4 kids knowing they can't afford them with their income? That is just completely irresponsible and hardly shows much concern for their own children.

People wind up with unplanned pregnancies all the time. One little slip up and BAM there's another mouth to feed. Course I guess if they know they aren't making enough to support that extra mouth they can choose to give the child up one way or another. Is that what they should do?

So, people who've acted responsibly and made wise choices should have to sacrifice more of their earnings to make up the difference for those who haven't. That's !

Stop acting responsible then you can stop being so jealous of those irresponsible free loaders.

[BlackArtemis]

I live in west Chester PA, I will change my location on the 28th because that's when I move back home and start the next chapter of my life. I just have the **** luck to do so under Obama.

The average Thai make 7,000-10,000 per month ($200-350) My wife and I were making 70,000+ through teaching and tutoring, so we were never for want here.

I have watch idiocracy, and I believe that movie has a very strong point. Thus begin my program now, if we start now we can still get bob barker!

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by Therian

I may be incorrect here - I searched for a bit trying to make sure I had the facts right. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I see nothing in the tax plan that speaks towards gross business earnings being taxed. The only thing I see is the 6% payroll tax on families that make 250+ or individuals that make 200+.

Even if this did apply to businesses, as we all know, they are taxed on Net Income, not Gross Income.

Anyone who has 'worked their hands to the bone' for their business, and put in hours of hardwork, will do a couple hours of research or will hire an accountant to make the necessary entries to lower his/her net income.

For example:

"an owner can write off any expenses s/he makes into employee health care plan. An employer can also write off 15% up to $45,000 if the owner opens up a Keogh or SEP IRA account. Additionally, the company can choose to offer the account to employees and write off anything the company puts in for employees in addition to the 15%/$45,000. Even if a company makes over $250,000 net after doing these things,there are many ways to reduce their taxes and net income."

Next, how many sole proprietorship small businesses are there making over $250,000 net income? Probably not many, right? Probably less than the 2% of all small businesses that make over $250,000.

So with 98% of small businesses making under 250,000 net income, I see an overblown situation.

McCain's 23m figure was wrong

you are obviously not a business owner, or an accountant. yes businesses that make more than $250k per year can cut their expenses, a small amount, they can cut their prices, they can cut the hours of their employees. but all these have risks. if you cut expenses, you may not be able to take care of the customer as they want you to, so you lose business, and thus revenue. you might be able to weather a short term storm, but if it goes on too long for a small business it becomes untenable to maintain business operations and people lose their jobs. if they cut the hours of their employees, the employees will go looking for new jobs, and you have to hire and train new employees, and that costs money. a high turn over rate tends to kill a business as well. the business can also cut prices, and this works in a reasonably ok economy, and it only works in the short term. if this goes on too long, and the business has a sudden downturn, it will also die.

Originally Posted by DBMSTNG

a flat tax of 20% would mean significantly less tax revenue. the only way a 20% flat tax would work is if government spending would be drastically cut.

people like to bitch and complain about tax breaks to the wealthy, but what most fail to realize is what percentage of tax revenue is paid by the wealthiest 10% in America compared to the average Joe. the more you make, the higher percentage you are taxed. 30% of $1,000,000 is a hell of alot more than 20% of $50,000. change that 30% to 20% and the government has $100,000 less tax revenue.

you are assuming that the economy is a zero sum gain and it isnt. that so called loss of $100k revenue to the government is bogus to begin with. if a business had that $100k to invest in expanding the business, they increase sales, add to the payroll, and thus add to the tax base, and usually far more than that $100k that would have been lost in a zero sum gain economy.

[Lisa GT]

Originally Posted by jikelly

People wind up with unplanned pregnancies all the time. One little slip up and BAM there's another mouth to feed. Course I guess if they know they aren't making enough to support that extra mouth they can choose to give the child up one way or another. Is that what they should do?



Stop acting responsible then you can stop being so jealous of those irresponsible free loaders.

An unplanned pregnancy isn't a 'little slip up', it's a monumental mistake if you can't afford the child.

That 'little slip up' attitude is the problem. If people would treat an unplanned pregnancy as something that can't happen under any circumstance, then chances are it won't. Once I had my second child, I realized that was all I would be able to manage and there could be no more pregnancies, and there weren't. It can be done, it's a matter of people caring enough to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences.

Birth control is available free at Planned Parenthood and community health departments. You can buy it in the drug store, grocery store or even WalMart or Target. Any doctor can write a prescription for birth control and so can Nurse Practitioners. Birth control is easy, readily available and often free. Lots of insurance plans will pay a significant portion of a tubal ligation, mine paid half if I remember correctly and I came up with the other half to make sure I'd never get pregnant again.

But that's for another thread topic, excepting how the social programs indigent people access to deal with these 'slip ups' are funded with tax money.

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by Obama

But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby.

Moral decline.

[Therian]

Originally Posted by dew22

To those making the case for the increase at 250,000.


Would you really rather the Govt. Have the money?

Really?

What if that money goes directly to paying down the national debt?

Originally Posted by rbohm

you are obviously not a business owner, or an accountant.

You're right on one of your assumptions, and incorrect on the other.

yes businesses that make more than $250k per year can cut their expenses, a small amount, they can cut their prices, they can cut the hours of their employees.

Or...you could do none of those things

As far as I understand this, we should not be talking about gross income, nor should we be talking about business income at all.

The only reason we should be talking about small businesses is if we're talking about a sole proprietorship where the owner takes home net income as salary.

I doubt we would see very many small businesses that are parternships, LLC's, or Corporations that have employees that are taking home 250k+ annually.

Even if we did see this often...the same accounting principles I was talking about earlier still apply.

This is not about cutting expenses, cutting wages, or letting employees ago.

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

An unplanned pregnancy isn't a 'little slip up', it's a monumental mistake if you can't afford the child.

That it is, but it happens and once the cat's out of the bag it's out.

Birth control is not 100 percent fool proof.

[Lisa GT]

Once the cat's out of the bag, it's YOUR (not specifically addressed to you J) responsibility to step up and do what you have to in order to take care of YOUR child.... not mine.

[Strype]

I don't see a problem with helping a single mom out with welfare. No problem at all. If I were a rich man I'd help her myself. What I do see a problem with is helping her friend who's got 5 different babies by 5 different baby's daddies.

[Lisa GT]

I can see it Strype if it's a TEMPORARY measure for somebody to get situated and on their feet, but welfare and all that other stuff has become an accepted way of living life for too many people in this country. There should be limits to how long one can stay on government assistance, also I think there should be caps where it doesn't keep increasing with each additional child.

[foghorn67]

Originally Posted by jikelly

Really?

You really believe that Reagan's tax policies were good for the nation? Did we wind up with a massive federal budget deficit in the 80s due to his tax policies and unprecedented government defense spending?

And his unprecedented education spending?

[Lisa GT]

Interesting articles in the Wall Street Journal online and New York Post:

Obama's 95% Illusion

Obama's 95% Illusion - WSJ.com

Obama Tells the Tax Truth

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/...uth_133633.htm

[Dusstbuster]

Originally Posted by Therian

What if that money goes directly to paying down the national debt?

You honestly believe the government would put all the "newfound" money towards paying down the national debt? Therian surely you of all people is smart enough to know that's not and never will be how it works...the government can be just as corrupt as any business all these dem's talk about being so corrupt.

Originally Posted by jikelly

That it is, but it happens and once the cat's out of the bag it's out.

Birth control is not 100 percent fool proof.

My gilfriends BC costs her $5 a month, you can get free condoms at planned parenthood.

So for $5 a month (max) you can be 99.9999999% sure you're not going to get pregnant. You could also not have sex for the 10 or so days leading up to her period and be even more certain.

[Strype]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

I can see it Strype if it's a TEMPORARY measure for somebody to get situated and on their feet, but welfare and all that other stuff has become an accepted way of living life for too many people in this country. There should be limits to how long one can stay on government assistance, also I think there should be caps where it doesn't keep increasing with each additional child.

Yea I agree as well but there are indeed some people who simply cannot work. My wife cries sometimes about work. She's a nurse and when she worked at the hospital she was on the heart floor. She'd see people with all kinds of problems and no family. I remember one guy was crippled with RA (like my father) and he had no family. They had all passed away and he never married if I remember the story correctly.

Anyway he was in there for a month or 2 with complications and my wife said rarely did he have a visitor. Maybe once or twice. I think we should take care of these people as long as they need. The people like you are talking about remind me of some of my family who are quite capable of working yet they sit around on welfare and ask for money. Sad.

[Lisa GT]

Originally Posted by Strype

Yea I agree as well but there are indeed some people who simply cannot work. My wife cries sometimes about work. She's a nurse and when she worked at the hospital she was on the heart floor. She'd see people with all kinds of problems and no family. I remember one guy was crippled with RA (like my father) and he had no family. They had all passed away and he never married if I remember the story correctly.

Anyway he was in there for a month or 2 with complications and my wife said rarely did he have a visitor. Maybe once or twice. I think we should take care of these people as long as they need. The people like you are talking about remind me of some of my family who are quite capable of working yet they sit around on welfare and ask for money. Sad.

There are many sad situations and valid claims for people who need help Strype. Those people who qualify can draw disability from the Social Security Administration. Hospital social workers should be able to assist people in initiating those claims. I'm somewhat familiar with the system since the attorney I work for specializes in Social Security Disability claims.

Like you, it's able bodied people with no drive or ambition who frustrate me. I'm not about kicking people to the curb who are in real need of help.

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

I can see it Strype if it's a TEMPORARY measure for somebody to get situated and on their feet, but welfare and all that other stuff has become an accepted way of living life for too many people in this country. There should be limits to how long one can stay on government assistance, also I think there should be caps where it doesn't keep increasing with each additional child.

There are. At least there are in my state. it's like 3 months or so till you're off. No one seems to remember that Clinton signed the welfare reform bill.

Lisa, I want to agree with you, but the reality of American society says that your plan can't work. There are a lot of idiots out there too dumb to keep their stuff in their pants and/or use protection. The result is a child that gets to suffer for their mistake.

I will never understand how one can be hardcore prolife and wish to dismantle any program aimed at helping anyone in the lower income brackets. (not that I'm saying that's what you are advocating. I'm just saying it is problematic.)

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by Dusstbuster

You honestly believe the government would put all the "newfound" money towards paying down the national debt? Therian surely you of all people is smart enough to know that's not and never will be how it works...the government can be just as corrupt as any business all these dem's talk about being so corrupt.

That is an excellent point.

The difference is that there is a lot more oversight and accountability (should be anyway) in government than there is in the private sector.

Originally Posted by Dusstbuster

My gilfriends BC costs her $5 a month, you can get free condoms at planned parenthood.

So for $5 a month (max) you can be 99.9999999% sure you're not going to get pregnant. You could also not have sex for the 10 or so days leading up to her period and be even more certain.

Another good point.

[Lisa GT]

Originally Posted by jikelly

There are. At least there are in my state. it's like 3 months or so till you're off. No one seems to remember that Clinton signed the welfare reform bill.

Lisa, I want to agree with you, but the reality of American society says that your plan can't work. There are a lot of idiots out there too dumb to keep their stuff in their pants and/or use protection. The result is a child that gets to suffer for their mistake.

I will never understand how one can be hardcore prolife and wish to dismantle any program aimed at helping anyone in the lower income brackets. (not that I'm saying that's what you are advocating. I'm just saying it is problematic.)

jk, I have found in my line of work (helping people with bankruptcy and disability) that people are just as dumb as they want to be or think they need to be. It's amazing to me what people can understand when they see it as a benefit but the same person just can't grasp something they basically don't want to hear. I've also got clients that are filing their 4th bankruptcy, it's a way of life. Side note: Chapter 7 filers often begin receiving credit card applications before their discharge is even final! As long as people know that the system is there to prop them up if they have another child or don't put too much effort into trying to find gainful employment, or that they can discharge their debt in another 7 years there is no motivation for them to change. I don't claim to be an expert on how to repair this broken system, but something needs to change.

[Therian]

Originally Posted by Dusstbuster

You honestly believe the government would put all the "newfound" money towards paying down the national debt? Therian surely you of all people is smart enough to know that's not and never will be how it works...the government can be just as corrupt as any business all these dem's talk about being so corrupt.

Whoa now...I was proposing a hypothetical answer to Dew's question. I wasn't implying that's what the Government would actually do. However, there's no reason they *couldn't do it*. We've done it many times in Canada.

[caballo]

The whole pregnancy thing and birth control....


$5 a month for birth control/free condoms etc....


Birth control (hormones) is the most selfish lazy thing a man could ask a woman to do. You guys need to seriously look into the risks you are putting your woman through. Cancer, stroke, and heart attack are increased risks anytime she puts a pill, takes a shot, or has a hormone based IUD put in.

Use a condom AND pull out or don't do it. My wife and I have already talked and if we can't control ourselves we take care of it ourselves or we use our favorite forms of birth control (BJs and BS) until we are in a place that WE can take care of the child along with the children we ALREADY have.

Seriously, people, if you love your wife/girlfriend and value their LONGTERM health, don't do ask/let them do the hormone thing...

[/sermon]

[GT40XStang9]

I never would have thought BJs and BS would make for conservative talking points.

[Lisa GT]

Okay, so I know what a BJ is, but forgive me for being so naive, what does BS stand for?

OMG, yes I really asked.

[caballo]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

Okay, so I know what a BJ is, but forgive me for being so naive, what does BS stand for?

OMG, yes I really asked.

Butt.... figure it out....