[Blackie Lawless]

Originally Posted by caballo

It is ILLEGAL for any healthcare facility/provider to refuse to give LIFE SAVING treatment to ANYONE in this country.

When did I say anything about hospitals denying people anything?

A majority of kids qualify for MEDICAID until they are 18. Therefore all their vaccinations, regular medical/dental care is covered until they are 18.

So I guess all the kids in the "minority" are screwed right?

[Strype]

Originally Posted by jimfitzgerald

Please leave me out of your discussion. I came in here in support of Obama not knowing I was going to get trampled for my beliefs. I just as soon not be the topic of debate. Thank you.

Consider it dropped

[caballo]

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

When did I say anything about hospitals denying people anything?

You didn't. Nor did I imply you did. My point was if you know of this happening, you should report it.

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

So I guess all the kids in the "minority" are screwed right?

Nope. Like I said there are programs and public/private institutions that will help pay and/or provide free care for them. Ignorance of what's available isn't the fault of the government. And thinking that ALL things will be covered ALL the time for all people is naivete. IF someone has a need, they need to do the research to find the resources available to them. If they don't try and blame the government for not providing I think it reflects the "what have you done for me lately" attitude that most people who disagree with the universal healthcare proposal are embittered toward.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

Hey ass clown, when the f'k did I ever say I was Democrat? Maybe if you tried understanding other people's point of views rather then trying to label everyone you wouldn't be such a dick. It seems all the McCain bitches are so eager to label anyone with a different point of view. I have never asked ANYONE for anything. I wont even take money from my own Father when I can't make ends meat.

Looks like somebody's got their pink panties all in a bunch.

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

Your comparing home owners insurance to health insurance? Get the f'k out of here man. You can replace a roof, not a lung. Go hold your "I'm McCains bitch" sign on some intersection somewhere.

I can't...there's really no room left for me at ANY intersection.

Too many brainwashed Messiah-followers (like yourself) are already out there registering people to vote...

...over and over and over again.



That was special...

[Blackie Lawless]

The simple fact that you would state that someone who feels Obama's plan is the better plan and that he is the better candidate out of the two is "brain washed" says all that needs to be said about yourself.

That's a whole hell of a lot of people, businesses, and reputable respectable brain washed zombies out there.

But then maybe your just pissed that the Dem's actually have such a popular/winning candidate in "The Messiah" as you like to call him, and the best the Rep's could do is "w part deux" McCain. Even republican voters (see other threads) have admitted he sucks and would prefer Palin as the presidential nominee.

But I understand. Just like them you gotta keep doing "what you've always done".

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

The simple fact that you would state that someone who feels Obama's plan is the better plan and that he is the better candidate out of the two is "brain washed" says all that needs to be said about yourself.

That's a whole hell of a lot of people, businesses, and reputable respectable brain washed zombies out there.

But then maybe your just pissed that the Dem's actually have such a popular/winning candidate in "The Messiah" as you like to call him, and the best the Rep's could do is "w part deux" McCain. Even republican voters (see other threads) have admitted he sucks and would prefer Palin as the presidential nominee.

But I understand. Just like them you gotta keep doing "what you've always done".

I could personally care less about anyone else's opinion of Mccain, Obama, OR Palin. Their vote doesn't affect mine in any way, shape, or form. So pointing to the liberal bias in the media, and the amount of support Obama is receiving from uneducated people (who are only voting for Obama because of the word "change") is irrelevant.

So whenever you're done name-calling and throwing a temper-tantrem, maybe you'd like to explain to me HOW our healthcare system is letting people die.

What a joke...

[Blackie Lawless]

Originally Posted by Ike83

I could personally care less about anyone else's opinion of Mccain, Obama, OR Palin. Their vote doesn't affect mine in any way, shape, or form. So pointing to the liberal bias in the media, and the amount of support Obama is receiving from uneducated people (who are only voting for Obama because of the word "change") is irrelevant.

So whenever you're done name-calling and throwing a temper-tantrem, maybe you'd like to explain to me HOW our healthcare system is letting people die.

What a joke...

Rest assured, the only "joke" here is you.

According to your mode of reasoning anyone voting for Obama is uneducated?
The minds behind Google are uneducated? Colin Powell is uneducated? Get out of here man. Seriously, your rebuttal's are becoming even weaker and pathetic by the minute. For someone who doesn't care much about how anyone besides yourself is voting, you sure spend a lot of time ridiculing those of us whom are voting differently then you.

As far as health care. Are you saying that health care companies have never denied procedures/treatments because they have deemed them unwarranted, leaving people to fend for themselves despite being insured?

It seems you've never had to deal with the health care system. And hey, if so, I am glad for this. I did however, and despite the fact that I had insurance through my job, my health care company (United at the time) was calling me questioning my doctors diagnoses, my doctors recommendations, and not wanting to cover an MRI he had deemed necessary. I had to fight with them tooth and nail to get them to approve the MRI. And even afterwards, they wanted me to foot the bill because they claimed the hospital didn't get pre-authorization, which was BS, and again I fought them on that until they finally covered it.

But hey, when I am bored I will look up the horror stories of people being denied medical services through their insurance companies. Not while I am watching the Dolphins.

Please don't give me this crap about how our health care system is great and not flawed. I've dealt with it, it has been corrupted by $ signs for a long time, much like everything else, politicians included.

Edit: Its your lucky day. I have an article bookmarked. Its a long ass read but its a perfect representation of our health care system. I will only quote the first page as it is three pages long. You can read the rest if you want.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/13/he...=1&oref=slogin

When Bracha Klausner returned home after an extended hospital stay for a ruptured intestine three years ago, she found stacks of mail from doctors and hospitals waiting for her.

There were so many envelopes - some of them very thick - that at first, Mrs. Klausner, 77, could not bring herself to open them, and she stored them in large shopping bags in her Manhattan apartment.

When she finally did open some of the envelopes, there were pages filled with dozens of carefully detailed items, each accompanied by a service code: "Partial thrombo 2300214 102.00," "KUB Flat 2651040 466.00."

On the 15th page or so of each bill, a "balance forward" line listed amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars. One totaled $77,858.04.

Another mailing, from her insurance company, clearly said, in large type, "This is not a bill." But she could make no sense of the remark codes: "G7 - Your benefit is based on the difference between Medicare's allowable expense and the amount Medicare paid" or "QN - Your claim may have been separated for processing purposes."

Mrs. Klausner's experience is shared by millions of Americans who, frustrated and confused, find themselves devoting enormous amounts of time and energy to sorting out their medical bills.

Walk into any drugstore, and the next few minutes of your life are fairly predictable. After considering the choices, you make your purchases and head for the cashier. Seconds after the transaction, you are handed a receipt that reports to the penny what you paid for each product, along with its brand, its size, and the date, time and location of the purchase. But become a patient, and you enter a world of paperwork so surreal that it belongs in one of Kafka's tales of the triumph of faceless bureaucracies. And although some insurers and hospitals are trying to streamline and simplify bills, the efforts have been piecemeal.

Medical paperwork is a world of co-payments and co-insurers, deductibles, exclusions and contracted fees. Nothing is as it seems: patients receive statements that often do not reflect what is actually owed; telephone calls to customer service agents are at best time-consuming and at worst fruitless. The explanations of benefits that insurers send out - known as E.O.B.'s - are filled with unintelligible codes.

The system is so impenetrable that it mystifies even the most knowledgeable.

"I'm the president's senior adviser on health information technology, and when I get an E.O.B. for my 4-year-old's care, I can't figure out what happened, or what I'm supposed to do," said Dr. David Brailer, National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, whose office is in the Department of Health and Human Services. "I can't figure out what care it was related to or who did what."

Dr. Blackford Middleton, a professor at Harvard Medical School with special training in health services research, said he did not fare much better than Dr. Brailer.

"I understand the words of diagnoses and procedures," he said. "But codes? No. Or how things are paid or not paid? I don't understand that."

Dr. Brailer said he often used an analogy to describe the current state of medical billing.

"Suppose you walk into a restaurant," he said, "and you don't get a menu, you don't get any choice of what food you'll eat, they don't tell you what it is when they're serving it to you, they don't tell you what it's going to cost."

"Then, weeks or months later, you get a bill that tells you all the food you ate and the drinks you had, some of which you remember and some you don't, and although you get the bill, you still can't figure out what you really owe," Dr. Brailer said.

Some people make valiant efforts to sort through bills and claims, but end up throwing up their hands; others ignore them, until they are pursued by collection agencies; still others, basically healthy but weary at the prospect of a paperwork fusillade, stop going to the doctor altogether.

Piles Upon Piles

In the days before managed care, most insurance plans operated on a fee-for-service basis. Patients paid 20 percent of medical fees; insurers paid 80 percent. But as health care costs have continued to rise, many patients are being required to pay an ever-larger part of their medical bills, and deductibles continue to increase. And to keep the system churning, close to 30 cents of every dollar spent on health care goes for administration, much of it spent generating bills and explanations of benefits.

Best health care in the world... Yeah.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

According to your mode of reasoning anyone voting for Obama is uneducated? The minds behind Google are uneducated? Colin Powell is uneducated?

Actually, I never once said EVERYBODY voting for Obama is uneducated. But I WILL say that a majority of them are. I mean for goodness sakes, I can't count HOW many times I've asked an Obama supporter what their reason was for voting for Obama, and had them respond with...

"He's all about change man."



Second of all, I find your above examples of "educated" people to be equally hilarious. This coming from a man who recently referred to a Michael Moore movie as educational.

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

As far as health care. Are you saying that health care companies have never denied procedures/treatments because they have deemed them unwarranted, leaving people to fend for themselves despite being insured?

Umm, actually no I'm not. Our health care system has flaws in it just like every other system in the world. It's a give and take relationship. Do you want to sacrifice the quality of care in our health care system for the amount of availability? It's a debate that has gone on for a very long time. I just find it funny you refer to how our health care system is letting people die, when on the flip-side other health care systems are virtually letting people die in the "waiting rooms".

Healthcare Today: Another ER Waiting Room Death

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

It seems you've never had to deal with the health care system. And hey, if so, I am glad for this. I did however, and despite the fact that I had insurance through my job, my health care company (United at the time) was calling me questioning my doctors diagnoses, my doctors recommendations, and not wanting to cover an MRI he had deemed necessary. I had to fight with them tooth and nail to get them to approve the MRI. And even afterwards, they wanted me to foot the bill because they claimed the hospital didn't get pre-authorization, which was BS, and again I fought them on that until they finally covered it.

I'm pretty sure EVERYBODY has had bad experiences with ANY insurance company throughout the course of their lives. Dude, it's a given.

But that doesn't mean that we abandon the ENTIRE system because there have been bad experieces along the way. If your idea of "fixing" the system is to let the government get more involved, and eventually manage the system, then I would wonder why you would be so naive to think that they would improve the healthcare system any better then they RECENTLY handled the mortgage crisis we're in right now.

Bigger government isn't the answer. It will only lead to MORE problems with the healthcare in this country. Just my .02

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

But hey, when I am bored I will look up the horror stories of people being denied medical services through their insurance companies. Not while I am watching the Dolphins.

Me too...

The Problems with Socialized Health Care

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

Please don't give me this crap about how our health care system is great and not flawed. I've dealt with it, it has been corrupted by $ signs for a long time, much like everything else, politicians included.

You're right...America and capitalism are the root of all evil.

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

Best health care in the world... Yeah.

Yep...you got it.

[jikelly]

Wow 11 pages. It's going to take me forever to catch up.

[Wart]

What I'm thinking is if Michelle Obamas thesis can be brought up then we can address Todd Palin being a successionist.

[caballo]

Originally Posted by Wart

What I'm thinking is if Michelle Obamas thesis can be brought up then we can address Todd Palin being a successionist.

Fair enough. Make your case for "racist" (as implied by the poster) and "secessionist"(as implied by you) being analogous.

edit: make sure you include how POTUS candidate spousal influence on the country and VPOTUS candidate spousal influence on the country are analogous as well.

[Wart]

Originally Posted by caballo

Fair enough. Make your case for "racist" (as implied by the poster) and "secessionist"(as implied by you) being analogous.

I'll simple it down for you,

If you want to make spouses an issue ....

[Kraw]

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

because people don't give an eff about other people and don't want to give a dime to help someone else out.

damn right I don't

Originally Posted by Blackie Lawless

If it was there asses at the bottom they would have a whole different perspective on things.

every child in the US has a chance at being someone, but so many drop out of school or just don't try. If anyone is at the bottom, it's their own fault.

I went to public school. I went to a state university. Anyone can succeed in HS and get a scholarship or loan to go to college IF THEY WANT TO. Why should I pay for THEIR mistakes?

[caballo]

Originally Posted by Wart

I'll simple it down for you,

If you want to make spouses an issue ....

So... you got nothing... again.

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

If this was a similar comment made by a white woman, it would be considered 'racist'. If Cindy McCain had written that, you can bet the MSM would be talking about it morning, noon and night and paint the McCains in the most detrimental light they could.

This is an old argument. I understand what you are saying and it's highly likely that if McCain's wife were to say she wished to support the advancement of the White community there would be many crying racism.

Now if McCain's wife were advocating the support of a community in some area of the country, even if it were predominantly white would that be ok? What if it were a rural Louisiana community that with entrenched poverty? Would that be ok?

Me personally, I would have no problem with McCain's wife saying she wants to give back to the community she came from. I would argue that Michelle is saying something along that same line.

You find it racist because Michelle says the "black" community and not just some community in a certain geographic location. Am I way off base?

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by Lisa GT

Do you believe the black community wants racial equality any more than the white community?

Not all blacks want equality, but I would argue that they are misguided, deluded, and stupid. Maybe racist as well. This is America. We are all Americans.

[colvindesign]

[QUOTE=Uncle Meat;7680441]
...and you really want this women to be our first lady? No thanks...

[U.M.QUOTE]

Are you serious?

Judging from your sig, is it your personal mission to try to get everyone on earth to hate Osama and his wife as much as you do?

There was nothing wrong with the thesis. Sure, she felt like an outsider who was treated different, that's what happens to black people and she wrote about it. WOW, earth shattering. Just about as earth Shattering as when McCain said "this one" while pointing to Obama.....

The only issue you are basing your vote on is pretty clear, it's right there in black and white.

So when you do vote for McCain (because he's white) and he wins, he already stated he will go full out into Aphganistan, and do "watever it takes". Iraq and Aphgan have already put us in the red to where we are today, but that's not enough, next we'll need a draft to supply enough bodys for these wars to kill hundreds of thousands more middle easterners (I wonder why they hate us), and thousands more of our children, to try to catch a few hundred. He has also stated he will pursue military action against Iran as well. He's pushing for WW3, and you'll vote for him because you won't vote for a black person.

How do you get a cockroach to come out? Turn off the lights and leave the room.

BTW, after reading the last page, since we are talking about health care, Obama's solution is not socialized health care, but more regulation on health care. If you don't think there is a problem with health care, you're out of touch with reality. My family has paid out over 10,000 dollars a year in premiums, then over 300 a month on perscriptions and received over 25,000 in medical bills for that year. That's with some of the best insurance money can buy.

[caballo]

Originally Posted by jikelly

You find it racist because Michelle says the "black" community and not just some community in a certain geographic location. Am I way off base?

I do.

When someone is constantly referring to race in their speeches, policies, agenda, and school papers, it's obvious that their thoughts are dominated with race. Under any other circumstance, that would be considered racism.

It's very easy to lose respect for any person who demands you recognize their ethnicity/nationality before or as part of their argument before they make their point. It shows a lack of integrity and quite a bit of insecurity.

[jikelly]

Originally Posted by caballo

I do.

When someone is constantly referring to race in their speeches, policies, agenda, and school papers, it's obvious that their thoughts are dominated with race. Under any other circumstance, that would be considered racism.

It's very easy to lose respect for any person who demands you recognize their ethnicity/nationality before or as part of their argument before they make their point. It shows a lack of integrity and quite a bit of insecurity.

Does Michelle Obama constantly refer to her race in her speeches, policies, agenda and other papers?

I will say that to be black in America means something. It means something different for me who grew up middle class and divorced from the black community and for a black person who grew up as very much a part of the black community. Especially so for someone who remembers the civil rights movement because they were alive at that time.

Something else to consider. Until the civil rights movement, blacks were not allowed to live as Americans with access to all the rights guranteed to all by the Constitution.

[colvindesign]

before anyone says "oh another follower....."

I'm not a "believer". Obama is a band aid. McCain is salt. We need more than a band aid, we sure as hell don't need salt.

Obama might try to "change" things, but he is not going to change the two party system.

I love the Marxist remarks on here. Yeah, if you belive in Universal health care, you're a marxist, should have known those canadians.......

People only refer to Marxists because it was a catastrophic failure. If McCain gets elected, keeps taxes where they are or gives more tax cuts to businesses as he promises, and gives more tax cuts to the 1%, then attacks Iran, and goes full out into Aphgan, we are headed straight into a catastrophic failure. Haliburton and other companies already are incorporated off shore, at a PO box, in order to avoid paying taxes. How much in taxes? Tens of billions a MONTH. The US could become the next Marx type failure. We are at the brink of a huge recession. It all depends on huge it becomes to determine the US's place in history, a society with ups and downs like others, or a failed attempt at democracy. When the dollar becomes worth less and less, kind of like how potatoe bread was worth thousands and thousands of Rubles in Russia. The dollar has started to fall, how far will it go?

Obama is not the mesiah. He is not going to change the world. He may change the worlds perception of the US, and right now we need that. He won't change the two party system which is exactly what has let us down. They have learned to play the game and bend the rules in their favor. Get rid of personal contributions and run all Senate, Congress and Executive elections of public finances, and you take the money out of elections. Take the next step and stop lobbying altogether and everyone has a fair shake.

You guys who are stark McCain backers, why are you backing him? If you believe the US is not in trouble, you're out of touch. If you think we still need to cater to the wealthy 1% and the big businesses, then will you still be happy when you need to wait in line all day for a loaf of bread that costs you 600 dollars?

Also, I love the marxist remarks in another regard. Who ran the marxist governments when they failed? The government who were also the wealthy, and if you were wealthy, you had friends in government. That is the same exact situation you are so diehard to defend now. If you're poor, you're not jack **** to this government and they will hand you a few food stamps, but they will spend two weeks in nebraska with an oil or tobacco tycoon and wipe their ass with 100 dollar bills.

So, if I say I want Health care to be more balanced and affordable and you say I am a Marxist, am I? Or are you?

For every 100 dollars that anyone pays into insurance, only 40-55 dollars goes to the health care provider.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by colvindesign

before anyone says "oh another follower....."

I'm not a "believer". Obama is a band aid. McCain is salt. We need more than a band aid, we sure as hell don't need salt.

Yep, looks like we got another follower.

Good grief.

Originally Posted by colvindesign

Obama might try to "change" things, but he is not going to change the two party system.

I'm sorry, did somebody say he WAS?

Originally Posted by colvindesign

I love the Marxist remarks on here. Yeah, if you belive in Universal health care, you're a marxist, should have known those canadians.......

Ummm, no. Actually, we're referring to the COMMENTS BARACK OBAMA MADE ABOUT SPREADING THE WEALTH AROUND.

THAT is what makes him a Marxist.

Originally Posted by colvindesign

People only refer to Marxists because it was a catastrophic failure.

Communism, Marxism, and Socialism are all related to the elimination of private property and large central government that tries to level the playing field. I'd say ANY "ism" that tries to accomplish this WILL result in a catastrophic failure. That's why America (up until this point) has swam in the wake of "capitalism." You know, where you get out what you put in.

Sorry that's so unfair.

Originally Posted by colvindesign

If McCain gets elected, keeps taxes where they are or gives more tax cuts to businesses as he promises, and gives more tax cuts to the 1%, then attacks Iran, and goes full out into Aphgan, we are headed straight into a catastrophic failure.

But sitting by idly, like we did in the 90s (Bill Clinton), and watching terrorists bomb the WTC, U.S.S. Cole, and the U.S. Embassy in Kenya is definitely a MUCH better position for America to be in. Good point!

Oh, and by the way...did YOU just say something about going into Afghanistan? That's right...you DID. I wonder why?

Hey I know! It's probably because YOUR boy Barack Obama is the one who said he would unilaterally attack Pakistan (without any fore-warning) if he happened to locate any Al Qaeda members being harbored within its borders.

What a great idea THAT is. The messiah strikes again.

Originally Posted by colvindesign

Haliburton and other companies already are incorporated off shore, at a PO box, in order to avoid paying taxes. How much in taxes? Tens of billions a MONTH.

Want to know ONE way to prevent jobs from being shipped overseas? Try LOWERING the capital gains tax. You know, the one that Obama wants to DOUBLE!

Originally Posted by colvindesign

Obama is not the mesiah. He is not going to change the world. He may change the worlds perception of the US, and right now we need that.

Actually, he IS!

YouTube - Louis farrakhan Calls OBAMA the messiah! Helter Skelter

Second of all, if by "changing the world's perception of the U.S.", you mean...

1) allowing gay marriage to become acceptable
2) attempting to implement his CAREER stance on banning handguns
3) sitting down and talking to radical dictators withOUT pre-conditions
and
4) redistributing income however he sees fit...

...then no thanks. I'm good on the whole liberal agenda thing. It definitely didn't seem to work out for Jimmy Carter in 1979. You know, when he allowed Ayatollah Khomeini to rise to power and overthrow the Shah of Iran, among all the other bad guys (Hamas) that he ended up in bed with along the way.

Thanks, but no thanks. America is in NO position to embrace THAT kind of change. But I DO appreciate the offer...

Originally Posted by colvindesign

You guys who are stark McCain backers, why are you backing him?

Well let's see...how much time ya got?

1) Mccain ACTUALLY has experience as a member of Congress over the last twenty years
2) Mccain FOUGHT for (and was tortured for) this country, making him a true American hero
3) Mccain DOES salute the American flag
4) Mccain SUPPORTS the 2nd Amendment right to own a gun
5) Mccain DOESN'T want to raise taxes at a time when YOU say the country is heading for a MAJOR recession
6) Mccain IS pro-life...unlike Obama who harbors the MOST radical abortion views in the Senate
7) Mccain DOESN'T support the idea of talking to our enemies without pre-conditions
8) Mccain wants to bring our troops home from Iraq...in VICTORY...not defeat
9) Mccain WASN'T the SECOND highest recipient of donations from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which ultimately led to the mortgage crisis we're in right now
10) Mccain is NOT approved by radical dictators (Castro, Chavez) and terrorist groups who want to annihiltate the U.S. (Hamas)
11) Mccain DIDN'T launch his political career in the living room of a known, unrepentant terrorist...William Ayers!
12) Mccain NEVER attended a Church for twenty years while his pastor sat in the pulpit and yelled out "God-DAMN America".
13) Mccain WASN'T called the MESSIAH by Louis Farrakhan...

Originally Posted by colvindesign

If you believe the US is not in trouble, you're out of touch.

When did I say the U.S. isn't in trouble? And just because it is, doesn't mean that Obama's "change" is the answer to all of our problems.

Originally Posted by colvindesign

If you think we still need to cater to the wealthy 1% and the big businesses, then will you still be happy when you need to wait in line all day for a loaf of bread that costs you 600 dollars?

Now you're not even making any sense. It's a shame because you started off doing so well.

[FrankenStang]

Originally Posted by colvindesign

I'm not a "believer". Obama is a band aid. McCain is salt. We need more than a band aid, we sure as hell don't need salt.

[colvindesign]

Originally Posted by Ike83

Ummm, no. Actually, we're referring to the COMMENTS BARACK OBAMA MADE ABOUT SPREADING THE WEALTH AROUND.

THAT is what makes him a Marxist.

Communism, Marxism, and Socialism are all related to the elimination of private property and large central government that tries to level the playing field. I'd say ANY "ism" that tries to accomplish this WILL result in a catastrophic failure. That's why America (up until this point) has swam in the wake of "capitalism." You know, where you get out what you put in.

Sorry that's so unfair.

Exactly, but there were wealthy people, the people who ran the goverment. Look at the Mansions, Castles and estates that the state owned and the states leaders used as their personal homes, even having maids, butlers, etc. It was the rich people controlling everything, including the money...... ring a bell? In other words, it looked good on paper, but when it was applied to reality, it failed due to people taking advantage of the system, sound familiar?

But sitting by idly, like we did in the 90s (Bill Clinton), and watching terrorists bomb the WTC, U.S.S. Cole, and the U.S. Embassy in Kenya is definitely a MUCH better position for America to be in. Good point!

Do you have any idea why we were attacked in the first place? Do you? I know why, but I'd like to know if you know. Do you also tell your kids to punch a kid in the nose if he pushes you (after you walk into his yard and find out much later he gets really touchly about people in his yard) then pick up a big stick and hit everyone?

Oh, and by the way...did YOU just say something about going into Afghanistan? That's right...you DID. I wonder why?

did you read what I wrote? McCain stated he would go in IMMEDIATELY.

Hey I know! It's probably because YOUR boy Barack Obama is the one who said he would unilaterally attack Pakistan (without any fore-warning) if he happened to locate any Al Qaeda members being harbored within its borders.

My boy? Ok, besides that remark, who WOULDN'T go in there if they found out they were harboring Al Qaeda? But the problem is, McCain would probably pull the same Bush BS and make something up saying they have WMD oops I mean Al Qaeda.

What a great idea THAT is. The messiah strikes again.

So it's a bad idea if there is concrete proof?

Want to know ONE way to prevent jobs from being shipped overseas? Try LOWERING the capital gains tax. You know, the one that Obama wants to DOUBLE!

Are you serious? Dropping the capital gain tax will increase jobs? Ok, so they will make more warehouse jobs and pay us idiots 7 dollars an hour and charge us 1200 a month in rent. And we need to STFU and be thankful.

Actually, he IS! (the mesiah) I'm glad you think so.
YouTube - Louis farrakhan Calls OBAMA the messiah! Helter Skelter

Second of all, if by "changing the world's perception of the U.S.", you mean...

1) allowing gay marriage to become acceptable Yes, he is single handedly going to do this
2) attempting to implement his CAREER stance on banning handguns Again, going to do this by himself, lol
3) sitting down and talking to radical dictators withOUT pre-conditions Are you serious? You can't tell someone what to say before you have a conversation with them.
and
4) redistributing income however he sees fit... Again, he is miraculously going to turn this country into a dictatorship and strip away all your money......
[/QUOTE]

...then no thanks. I'm good on the whole liberal agenda thing. It definitely didn't seem to work out for Jimmy Carter in 1979. You know, when he allowed Ayatollah Khomeini to rise to power and overthrow the Shah of Iran, among all the other bad guys (Hamas) that he ended up in bed with along the way.

Then you DO know how we got into this mess in the first place. Talking to someone without conditions is much different than becoming butt-buddies. If you are hung up on the past and believe one thing equals another, then there is no hope for you.

Thanks, but no thanks. America is in NO position to embrace THAT kind of change. But I DO appreciate the offer...

Wow, you got all the answers huh?



Well let's see...how much time ya got?

1) Mccain ACTUALLY has experience as a member of Congress over the last twenty years Typical politician who knows how to play the game
2) Mccain FOUGHT for (and was tortured for) this country, making him a true American hero Very respectable that he went through that for our country, but does that automatically make him right?
3) Mccain DOES salute the American flag Wasn't aware Obama didn't
4) Mccain SUPPORTS the 2nd Amendment right to own a gun So do I, so this is the only issue I should vote on? Because petty things like the economy and the war are unimportant?
5) Mccain DOESN'T want to raise taxes at a time when YOU say the country is heading for a MAJOR recession Obama wants to raise the taxes on the wealthy, so are you wealthy, that's the only type of person who fully understands everything McCain is for and supports him.
6) Mccain IS pro-life...unlike Obama who harbors the MOST radical abortion views in the Senate Again, is this the only issue that matters?
7) Mccain DOESN'T support the idea of talking to our enemies without pre-conditions I do, it takes balls to sit accross the table and tell someone you can literally melt every sqaure inch of their country into glass. Are we children? We can't talk to them! They're bad!
8) Mccain wants to bring our troops home from Iraq...in VICTORY...not defeat What is victory in Iraq? Seriously, what is the end game there? A sustainable democracy? then we might as well make it 51 states
9) Mccain WASN'T the SECOND highest recipient of donations from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which ultimately led to the mortgage crisis we're in right now Please read my posts about contributions, but I am sure he was the biggest recipient from other big businesses that are not that great for the US also
10) Mccain is NOT approved by radical dictators (Castro, Chavez) and terrorist groups who want to annihiltate the U.S. (Hamas) yeah because Obama will talk to them, McCain won't, big suprise there.
11) Mccain DIDN'T launch his political career in the living room of a known, unrepentant terrorist...William Ayers! Yeah, a terrorist. All hippies were terrorists then? I'm sure McCain has his own skeletons as well, I don't need to find them because I know the guy is bad news.
12) Mccain NEVER attended a Church for twenty years while his pastor sat in the pulpit and yelled out "God-DAMN America". The pastor got some media attention and decided to go political, I disagree with my pastors political views, does that mean I have to leave my church?
13) Mccain WASN'T called the MESSIAH by Louis Farrakhan...
Who the fk gives 2 shts what farakhan thinks or says or does? Apparently you do, but even black people, actually, especially black people make fun of him.

When did I say the U.S. isn't in trouble? And just because it is, doesn't mean that Obama's "change" is the answer to all of our problems.

You think his change is everything the "right" says it is. McCain will not make the economy any better but will put us into more conflicts, when the one and a half we are in are already bankrupting the country, something's gotta give.

Now you're not even making any sense. It's a shame because you started off doing so well.

Let me walk you through this one, I reminded you of how the Russian Ruble collapsed and to buy bread, people would wait in line for hours and spend thousands of Rubles on a loaf of bread. Our economy is collapsing, and the USD is falling in value against foreign currency. If it makes a freefall like the ruble did, it will be worthless, i.e. instead of 2.69 for a loaf of bread, it will cost 100 or 200 times as much.

[Blackie Lawless]

Originally Posted by Ike83

Actually, I never once said EVERYBODY voting for Obama is uneducated. But I WILL say that a majority of them are. I mean for goodness sakes, I can't count HOW many times I've asked an Obama supporter what their reason was for voting for Obama, and had them respond with...

"He's all about change man."

A moot point. Plenty of McCain supporters are voting for him on the sole purpose that he is a veteran. I wouldn't call them uneducated. I sure as hell know McCain wouldn't call them uneducated.

Second of all, I find your above examples of "educated" people to be equally hilarious. This coming from a man who recently referred to a Michael Moore movie as educational.

It bothers me none that you throw the M Moore thing at me. I know you need all the help you can get with your defense. I did watch those two movies, and I did learn something from each of them. It doesn't make them gospel. Does M Moore have an "agenda"? Sure. Who doesn't? Has M Moore lied about stuff? Sure. Then again so has our own president. Its up to us to make an informed decision on information presented to us. I watched and followed up on topics I wanted to know more about and learned something.

Do you want to sacrifice the quality of care in our health care system for the amount of availability?

How does making health insurance affordable and attainable for everyone effect the quality of our health care system? If anything the demand for more physicians, medical assistants, nurses, etc.. would create more jobs.

I just find it funny you refer to how our health care system is letting people die, when on the flip-side other health care systems are virtually letting people die in the "waiting rooms".

You make it sound like this is something we are immune too.

Woman dies ignored on hospital waiting room floor - CNN.com

But that doesn't mean that we abandon the ENTIRE system because there have been bad experieces along the way. If your idea of "fixing" the system is to let the government get more involved, and eventually manage the system, then I would wonder why you would be so naive to think that they would improve the healthcare system any better then they RECENTLY handled the mortgage crisis we're in right now.

You have no idea just what my idea is. You can't see past your own.

Bigger government isn't the answer. It will only lead to MORE problems with the healthcare in this country. Just my .02

There is nothing wrong with having an opinion on the subject matter.

You're right...America and capitalism are the root of all evil.

When did I say any of this? You seem to be in the habit of automatically assuming you know/understand the person you are debating, when you don't, all because they do not share your point of view.

[caballo]

Originally Posted by jikelly

Does Michelle Obama constantly refer to her race in her speeches, policies, agenda and other papers?

I will say that to be black in America means something. It means something different for me who grew up middle class and divorced from the black community and for a black person who grew up as very much a part of the black community. Especially so for someone who remembers the civil rights movement because they were alive at that time.

Something else to consider. Until the civil rights movement, blacks were not allowed to live as Americans with access to all the rights guranteed to all by the Constitution.

The longer you choose to look behind the longer you will not see what lies ahead.

"BLACK" America is a construct of the African American race. If you want to change America into a colorblind society, quit segregating yourself and proclaiming "black" pride and the like. It does nothing but divide yourself from the very thing you claim to want to be part of and puts people on defense. Which keeps people of other races from accepting you as a member of society without an agenda that involves race. Racial and Ethnic pride is good to a point. Specifically, preserving heritage and a sense of self that gives you roots. But when that pride is used as a tool to try to elevate yourself it will fail every time. Your not, nor will ever be a great man, because you are black. I will never be great because I'm a threesome baby. WE will be great because we CHOOSE to be men of good character, faithful and true. And that will hardly ever meet with rejection except by people who are too afraid to choose to be that type of person and fear your goodness casts them in a negative light. Those kind of people are not the kind of people any race should look for approval from.

I know that Barack and Michele, more than likely, do NOT always bring up race first. But it seems like it comes up more often than not. Any time anyone does that shows they are trying to use fear to get their agenda accepted. It is a "common" way to make an argument. You, have never had to tell me you're a black man to get your point across that I can recall. You are way more substantive in your ability to communicate your points than to have to rely on your race to do so.... That should give you more pride than your ethnicity.