[poboys 94]

It should be noted that the people running the schools under UN protection gave the IDF the locations and coordinates of these UN schools, which were being used to house evacuees that were bombed into homelessness. If these schools were actually being used to fire rockets into Israel, it wouldn't make sense for them to cooperate in this way The UN has emphatically denied there were militants firing on Israel from these locations while Israel said its soldiers had come under fire from militants inside the school.
Israel has a history of firing on UN compounds.
Electronic Lebanon: Annan ‘shocked’ by Israeli attack on UN Lebanon post

One soldier was killed in an exchange of fire with militants in Gaza City, while four others were killed by shellfire from their own tanks earlier in the day, Israeli military officials said. When these friendly fire deaths are occurring, how can they be so sure rockets are being fired from the schools?
It is being reported that the U.N. staff vetted Palestinians seeking shelter at their facilities to make sure militants were not taking advantage of them. "So far we've not had violations by militants of our facilities," he said.
Just something to think about.
"The BBC are reporting that, "at least 40 people have been killed in an Israeli air strike on the United Nations-run al-Fakhura girls school in the Gaza Strip". BBC video (timed 4.35 GMT) Israeli captain on school attack - Captain Elie Isaacson of the Israeli Defence Force said that they had had "major operational successes" in Gaza. He told the BBC's Ben Brown that the Israeli army wants to "get this thing finished as soon as possible" .. but wouldn't comment on the school massacre as they didn't have "accurate information".

Speaking on the 11th day of the Israeli assault, a senior ICRC official, Pierre Kraehenbuhl, said life in Gaza had become intolerable.

This from the Palestinian Solidarity Blog by Sharon

We have also had reports that in the Zaytoun area two days ago, Israeli soliders rounded up a group of people into two houses; women and children into one, men into the other, where they were kept for two days. Then this morning at 11am Israeli forces shelled the houses. We have heard the number of deaths as between 7 and 20. One was a seven year old boy whose father was interviewed on TV while holding his body. We are trying to find out further details. It is getting very hard to keep up with this insanity.

We asked the Jabalia Red Crescent admin person how much of the emergency calls Israel is not letting them go to. These are in areas where co-ordination must be made with the invading forces via the Red Cross to enter. He said they are not being allowed to attend to about 80% of the calls from the north, covering the Beit Lahia, Beit Hanoun, and Jabalia area.

Shall I repeat that?
80%.
Eight of ten people calling for help are being prevented from receiving it.

The Israeli's have only contempt for any contrary opinon to their actions...The U.N. special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian taerritory, former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, (see Wednesday, December 10, 2008 Gaza: Silence is not an option - Richard Falk UN Rappoteur on Palestinian territories ) has labelled what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza "a crime against humanity."

Falk, who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as "a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention." He has asked for "the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law."

Falk's unflinching honesty and outspoken views which he is happy to air (he was on BBC4 Radio World at One today) has enraged Israel. He was banned from entering the country on Dec. 14 during his attempt to visit Gaza and the West Bank.

[jikelly]

The Israeli's have only contempt for any contrary opinon to their actions...The U.N. special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian taerritory, former Princeton University law professor Richard Falk, (see Wednesday, December 10, 2008 Gaza: Silence is not an option - Richard Falk UN Rappoteur on Palestinian territories ) has labelled what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza "a crime against humanity."

Falk, who is Jewish, has condemned the collective punishment of the Palestinians in Gaza as "a flagrant and massive violation of international humanitarian law as laid down in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention." He has asked for "the International Criminal Court to investigate the situation, and determine whether the Israeli civilian leaders and military commanders responsible for the Gaza siege should be indicted and prosecuted for violations of international criminal law."

Falk's unflinching honesty and outspoken views which he is happy to air (he was on BBC4 Radio World at One today) has enraged Israel. He was banned from entering the country on Dec. 14 during his attempt to visit Gaza and the West Bank.

Is that for real?

[T1 3VOM]

I'm curious, is Israel preventing the Palestinians from moving in Egypt?

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Israel has a history of firing on UN compounds.

In August, last year, Israel filed a formal complaint with the
United Nations, complaining about the school being used to fire against
Israel. Israel has already identified Hamas gunmen who were killed at the
scene of the attack - even publicized their names.

http://israel-un.mfa.gov.il/mfm/Data/129896.doc

January 8th, 2008 -

Israel holds the Lebanese government responsible and expects it to assert complete control over all its territory. Moreover, the fact that these rockets were fired from a UNIFIL area of responsibility emphasizes the need for UNIFIL to be more proactive and take further action to prevent such future attacks.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Now what if an occupying force were to take over your country.
Just look at the map.
The shrinking map of Palestine | Sabbah

I'm sorry, did you say something about an occupying force taking over a country? Well then, please tell us about the 700 B.C. invasion of Israel by the Assyrians. And then when you're done with THAT story, maybe you'd like to share with us the wonderful story of the 500 B.C. invasion by the Babylonians.

Oh what's that? You'd rather defend Hamas until you're blue in the face? I figured you'd go that route, especially with you being a Christian and all.

The funniest part involving your above maps of the Israeli-Palestinian states, is the fact that there isn't any explanation behind WHY Israel keeps gaining MORE and MORE land as the decades pass. Hmmm...why IS that?


*Ike raises his hand and hopes the pro-Hamas teacher calls on him*


It's because Israel was ATTACKED in 1948, resulting in the defeat of SEVERAL Arab nations, and the loss of some of their land. Israel was just fine with the British mandate, which gave them ownership of SOME of the land in Palestine. However, it was the ARABS who attacked, which resulted in a loss of their land fair and square.

Let's go to 1967...shall we? The Jordanians build a dam to cut off 35% of Israel's water supply, and Syria begins shooting mortar shells into northern Israel via the Golan heights. Combine this with the Soviet Union feeding Syria FALSE information about Israel planning an attack, which they, in turn, relayed to the Egyptians, and Egypt responds by closing down the Straights of Tiran, so as not to allow any naval vessel flying an Israeli flag through. Next thing you know, Jordan and Egypt (who were actually in the middle of a disagreement) signed a defence treaty, and shortly afterwards THIS statement is made from the Egyptian President Nasser...

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

And guess who WASN'T invited to the party AGAIN? That's right...Israel. So Israel goes on ahead and participates in ANOTHER fair fight. You know, the type where it's them against....SEVEN Arab nations, nothing serious.

Yet the outcome is the same...as it always is.

Israel wins...AND captures more land.

But that's cool...because Israel attacked FIRST...right? Even though that's the ONLY way you're going to gain the upper hand when you're fighting against....SEVEN OTHER NATIONS. But hey, no big deal.

However, in 1973, Israel WASN'T the one who attacked first. In 1973, Al Sadat decided he was going to attack Israel during a national HOLIDAY. How nice.

The Yom Kippur war was a result of Egypt trying to regain the Sinai peninsula, which of course...FAILED...AGAIN. How ridiculous?

But that's okay, because Israel went ahead and gave the Sinai peninsula BACK to the Egyptians in 1979 ANYWAY, after the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty. Which again, just goes to show that Israel is NEVER willing to "sit down and talk", like you've claimed in your previous posts time and time again. However, Israel has not ONLY defended itself, which has CONSISTENTLY resulted in their GAINING of land from their enemies, but they've ALSO taken it upon themselves to give the SAME land BACK...SEVERAL times.

We all remember how the Palestinians responded when Israel gave them back the Gaza strip don't we? That's right...Palestinians responded in their USUAL polite manner...by SHOOTING MORE ****ING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL!

I mean, you've GOT to be kidding me. Why in the WORLD can't anybody see what's going on here? The Jewish people were MASSACRED in the 1940s; SLAUGHTERED by the Nazi machine. So OBVIOUSLY the Jews can't remain in Europe...so WHERE are they going to go poboys? It would APPEAR they tried to migrate BACK to their homeland. And how did THAT work out? Should we ask Muhammed Amin al-Husayni?

I'm sure you know who that is right? Another one of your boys who absolutely HATES Jewish people, to the point where he actually sat DOWN with Hitler to discuss the annihilation of the Jewish race.

WHY did Husayni (The Grand Mufti) incite the great Arab revolt in the late 1930s? Because he HATES Jewish people. These poor people are persecuted EVERYWHERE they go.

They're persecuted for living in Europe (the holocaust).

They're persecuted for FLEEING Europe and migrating back to THEIR homeland (yes, it would be THEIR homeland since it was originally taken from them in 700 B.C.) because Muhammed Amin al-Husayni decides it's okay to attack them at every available opportunity.

And THEN they get attacked in 1948...for merely BECOMING A NATION ONCE AGAIN!

You're right poboys. SHAME on Jewish people for even EXISTING!

NOW I see why it's okay for the Palestinians to fire 100 rockets into southern Israel during a CEASE-FIRE.

It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that one up so I can finally go to sleep...

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by jikelly

Is that for real?

What, Falk?

Every subsequent "war" Israel has waged has had the same objective: the expulsion of the native people and the theft of more and more land. The lie of David and Goliath, of perennial victim, reached its apogee in 1967 when the propaganda became a righteous fury that claimed the Arab states had struck first. Since then, mostly Jewish truth-tellers such as Avi Schlaim, Noam Chomsky, the late Tanya Reinhart, Neve Gordon, Tom Segev, Yuri Avnery, Ilan Pappe and Norman Finklestein have dispatched this and other myths and revealed a state shorn of the humane traditions of Judaism, whose unrelenting militarism is the sum of an expansionist, lawless and racist ideology called zionism. "It seems," wrote the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe on 2 January, "that even the most horrendous crimes, such as the genocide in Gaza, are treated as desperate events, unconnected to anything that happened in the past and not associated with any ideology or system … Very much as the apartheid ideology explained the oppressive policies of the South African government, this ideology – in its most consensual and simplistic variety – has allowed all the Israeli governments in the past and the present to dehumanize the Palestinians wherever they are and strive to destroy them. The means altered from period to period, from location to location, as did the narrative covering up these atrocities. But there is a clear pattern [of genocide]."

In Gaza, the enforced starvation and denial of humanitarian aid, the piracy of life-giving resources such as fuel and water, the denial of medicines and treatment, the systematic destruction of infrastructure and the killing and maiming of the civilian population, 50 per cent of whom are children, meet the international standard of the Genocide Convention. "Is it an irresponsible overstatement," asked Richard Falk, the United Nations Special Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and international law authority at Princeton University, "to associate the treatment of Palestinians with this criminalized Nazi record of collective atrocity? I think not."

In describing a "holocaust-in-the making," Falk was alluding to the Nazis’ establishment of Jewish ghettos in Poland. For one month in 1943, the captive Polish Jews led by Mordechaj Anielewiz fought off the German army and the SS, but their resistance was finally crushed and the Nazis exacted their final revenge. Falk is also a Jew. Today’s holocaust-in-the-making, which began with Ben-Gurion’s Plan D, is in its final stages. The difference today is that it is a joint US-Israeli project. The F-16 jet fighters, the 250-pound "smart" GBU-39 bombs supplied on the eve of the attack on Gaza, having been approved by a Congress dominated by the Democratic Party, plus the annual $2.4 billion in war-making "aid," give Washington de facto control.

Do unto others. Oh wait, wasn't that Jesus who said that? He was just a lunatic to them, I forgot.

[T1 3VOM]

I could look up articles and paste them here in bold type that say that the U.S. was responsible for the September 11, 2001 attacks. That doesn't make it true.

Again, has Israel stopped the Palestinians from "fleeing" into Egypt? This is not a rhetorical question, I honestly don't know the answer. However, if the avenue into Egypt is open from the Israeli side, then the Palestinians obviously aren't denied medical attention as they claim, or Egypt doesn't want the Palestinians in their country either. Anyone know the answer?

[poboys 94]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Ike83

I'm sorry, did you say something about an occupying force taking over a country? Well then, please tell us about the 700 B.C. invasion of Israel by the Assyrians. And then when you're done with THAT story, maybe you'd like to share with us the wonderful story of the 500 B.C. invasion by the Babylonians.

That land was invaded and taken over by them even before the invasion you claim justifies TODAYS atrocities. That land was not the Jewish peoples only, it belonged and was home to many semetic peoples. Palestine has been settled continuously for tens of thousands of years. The Jewish people evolved out of native Cana'anite peoples and invading tribes. So the conflict has always been about revenge for previous invasions. The Assyrians conquered Israel in 722 or 721 B.C. The Babylonians conquered Judah around 586 B.C. BUT it was after Joshua, conquered the tribes and city states of Canaan. Based on biblical traditions, it is estimated that king David conquered Jerusalem about 1000 B.C. and established an Israelite kingdom over much of Canaan including parts of Transjordan. The kingdom was divided into Judea in the south and Israel in the north.
So even before the invasions and before the many conflicts
Amorites, Canaanites, and other Semitic peoples related to the Phoenicians of Tyre entered the area about 2000 B.C. The area became known as the Land of Canaan. Many different people at one time or another occupied the land.

Oh what's that? You'd rather defend Hamas until you're blue in the face? I figured you'd go that route, especially with you being a Christian and all.

First off, Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people in a fair election. You on the other hand hear "Hamas" and assume they are your enemy because you, the good Christian that you think you are, don't mind innocent people getting killed. You have swallowed the Zionist anti-Christ propaganda, without thinking first.

The funniest part involving your above maps of the Israeli-Palestinian states, is the fact that there isn't any explanation behind WHY Israel keeps gaining MORE and MORE land as the decades pass. Hmmm...why IS that?

Nothing amusing to me. A serious compromise needs to be put forth, with past transgressions from both sides needing to be kicked to the curb, in order for a peace to hold. Besides I would think you would want this to happen, you know the peace maker who is supposed to be the anti-Christ? Then you can be raptured up into the sky!!
[QUOTE]

But that's okay, because Israel went ahead and gave the Sinai peninsula BACK to the Egyptians in 1979 ANYWAY, after the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty. Which again, just goes to show that Israel is NEVER willing to "sit down and talk", like you've claimed in your previous posts time and time again. However, Israel has not ONLY defended itself, which has CONSISTENTLY resulted in their GAINING of land from their enemies, but they've ALSO taken it upon themselves to give the SAME land BACK...SEVERAL times.

Interesting that you leave the part out about the Persian King Cyrus
who conquered Babylonia, after Babylonia conquered Judah. About 50 years later, the Persian king Cyrus conquered Babylonia. Cyrus allowed a group of Jews from Babylonia to rebuild Jerusalem and settle in it. However, a large number of Jews remained in Babylonia. After the reestablishment of a Jewish state or protectorate, the Babylonian exiles maintained contact with authorities there. Persia,
that would be IRAN wouldn't it?

I mean, you've GOT to be kidding me. Why in the WORLD can't anybody see what's going on here? The Jewish people were MASSACRED in the 1940s; SLAUGHTERED by the Nazi machine. So OBVIOUSLY the Jews can't remain in Europe...so WHERE are they going to go poboys? It would APPEAR they tried to migrate BACK to their homeland. And how did THAT work out? Should we ask Muhammed Amin al-Husayni?

I'm sure you know who that is right? Another one of your boys who absolutely HATES Jewish people, to the point where he actually sat DOWN with Hitler to discuss the annihilation of the Jewish race.

WHY did Husayni (The Grand Mufti) incite the great Arab revolt in the late 1930s? Because he HATES Jewish people. These poor people are persecuted EVERYWHERE they go.

They're persecuted for living in Europe (the holocaust).

They're persecuted for FLEEING Europe and migrating back to THEIR homeland (yes, it would be THEIR homeland since it was originally taken from them in 700 B.C.) because Muhammed Amin al-Husayni decides it's okay to attack them at every available opportunity.

And THEN they get attacked in 1948...for merely BECOMING A NATION ONCE AGAIN!

Merely becoming a nation? They became a nation through terrorism, and murder on an ethnic cleansing campaign. Poor poor Zionist,tsk tsk.

You're right poboys. SHAME on Jewish people for even EXISTING!

Shame on anyone who falls for the lies and misconceptions, through carefully articulated propaganda designed to deceive. Many Jewish people are against there own government for what they are doing and have been doing, in their name and Gods.

NOW I see why it's okay for the Palestinians to fire 100 rockets into southern Israel during a CEASE-FIRE.

Because they are being starved and murdered, and live in a prison camp setting, much like the one you use to defend these murderers in the past. WW2, Nazis, prison camps, genocide?

It all makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that one up so I can finally go to sleep...

I highly doubt it

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by T1 3VOM

I could look up articles and paste them here in bold type that say that the U.S. was responsible for the September 11, 2001 attacks. That doesn't make it true.

Putting the govs in any type doesn't make their
conspiracy true either, but on to the original thread-please.

Again, has Israel stopped the Palestinians from "fleeing" into Egypt? This is not a rhetorical question, I honestly don't know the answer. However, if the avenue into Egypt is open from the Israeli side, then the Palestinians obviously aren't denied medical attention as they claim, or Egypt doesn't want the Palestinians in their country either. Anyone know the answer?

There are already significant Palestinian populations in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Almost 50% of the population of Jordan is Palestinian, and it is causing them no end of trouble. Accepting more refugees will cause them problems, and, since these countries feel that the refugees are the legitimate owners of the land they came from, they feel that they should not 'have to' accept refugees, but that the refugees should be returned to their own lands. I wold think Egypt is no different. The other issue is that a lot of people in these countries feel that by accepting refugees, they make it easier for Israel to drive out Palestinians and consolidate control of former Palestinian territory. In short, it's a combination of practical and ideological factors. Refugees are expensive, and Palestine's neighbors already have a lot of refugees (and the influx from Iraq is not helping). They feel that accepting refugees plays to Israel's favor, and some people genuinely feel that accepting more refugees will make them complicit with acts of ethnic cleansing.

[Reimann]

[T1 3VOM]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Putting the govs in any type doesn't make their conspiracy true either, but on to the original thread-please. .

Agreed, but you're posting things that directly contradict what I see to be accepted history. If you're going to change anyone's mind, I think you'll need to do more than cut and paste articles that you found on-line with no real credibility. You say, "On to the original thread-please," as if I'm changing the subject. My point if very much on topic, in that, if you can't back up your points, you have no points at all.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

There are already significant Palestinian populations in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Almost 50% of the population of Jordan is Palestinian, and it is causing them no end of trouble. Accepting more refugees will cause them problems, and, since these countries feel that the refugees are the legitimate owners of the land they came from, they feel that they should not 'have to' accept refugees, but that the refugees should be returned to their own lands. I wold think Egypt is no different. The other issue is that a lot of people in these countries feel that by accepting refugees, they make it easier for Israel to drive out Palestinians and consolidate control of former Palestinian territory. In short, it's a combination of practical and ideological factors. Refugees are expensive, and Palestine's neighbors already have a lot of refugees (and the influx from Iraq is not helping). They feel that accepting refugees plays to Israel's favor, and some people genuinely feel that accepting more refugees will make them complicit with acts of ethnic cleansing.

It could also be viewed as Egypt not wanting to let them in because they do things like, shoot rockets at you, when they don't get their way.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by T1 3VOM

Agreed, but you're posting things that directly contradict what I see to be accepted history. If you're going to change anyone's mind, I think you'll need to do more than cut and paste articles that you found on-line with no real credibility. You say, "On to the original thread-please," as if I'm changing the subject. My point if very much on topic, in that, if you can't back up your points, you have no points at all.

Yes I am trying to counter what has been in your words "excepted history", and where
that excepted history is coming from. I'm just trying to show others that maybe we should look at this, and other "news" as well, from
different perspectives and origins, then the main stream. After all
we as the US public have been mislead and we have come to find that further down the road we were deceived more than a few times
especially recently. We should know by now that using our own government and a complicit media as the absolute truth is not the best thing to do when searching for the truth on a matter, especially when you take into account the lies we have been told recently. This is all that I am trying to say, basically say hey
lets not fall for anymore, let's check into this further.
By doing so it doesn't make you a Hamas sympathizer, or "anti semite" We're just trying to find out more

It could also be viewed as Egypt not wanting to let them in because they do things like, shoot rockets at you, when they don't get their way.

There may be some truth to that as well, some Palestinian militants could be destabilizing factors, if they go there with intentions of being ungrateful guests and use the host nation as a launching pad for revenge against Israel. Most Arab nations don't want them for fear of that. But the majority of Palestinians I talk to just want to live in peace.
Remember most if not nearly all Arab nations are dictatorships, shaky ones at that. Adding in problematic Palestinian refugees in the mix could be viewed as a formula for trouble. HAMAS are said to be allied with the Muslim Brotherhood, a religious faction within Egypt which is at odds with Mubarak, the current leader of Egypt.
I guess they could screen every Palestinian that wishes asylum into Egypt But that might seem impractical.
BTW, what source do you consider credible? There is going to be a stretching of the truth from both sides of a situation, it's up to us
to consider all the angles, after all, what happens around the world greatly affects our country here, and in turn you and I and our families.

[GT40XStang9]

Everything's going to be okay...

Barack Obama administration 'prepared to talk to Hamas' | World news | guardian.co.uk

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

That land was invaded and taken over by them even before the invasion you claim justifies TODAYS atrocities. That land was not the Jewish peoples only, it belonged and was home to many semetic peoples. Palestine has been settled continuously for tens of thousands of years. The Jewish people evolved out of native Cana'anite peoples and invading tribes. So the conflict has always been about revenge for previous invasions. The Assyrians conquered Israel in 722 or 721 B.C. The Babylonians conquered Judah around 586 B.C. BUT it was after Joshua, conquered the tribes and city states of Canaan. Based on biblical traditions, it is estimated that king David conquered Jerusalem about 1000 B.C. and established an Israelite kingdom over much of Canaan including parts of Transjordan. The kingdom was divided into Judea in the south and Israel in the north.
So even before the invasions and before the many conflicts
Amorites, Canaanites, and other Semitic peoples related to the Phoenicians of Tyre entered the area about 2000 B.C. The area became known as the Land of Canaan. Many different people at one time or another occupied the land.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Yes I am trying to counter what has been in your words "excepted history", and where
that excepted history is coming from

So what are you saying poboys? Are you saying the Old Testament isn't true? Did you not read the part about God's covenant with Abraham, promising him the the land of the Canaanites? Matter of fact, it's Genesis 12 verses 1-3 in case you're wondering.

And given the SLIGHT chance that you may make the argument that the "great nation" God is referring to (in Genesis chapter 12) ISN'T the land of the Canaanites, then maybe you might like to check out Exodus 3:17, where God CLEARLY tells Moses that the Israelites' ultimate reward is the land of Canaan.

What more do you want poboys? If you're a Christian...like you CLAIM you are, then maybe you should go back and read the Bible ONE more time. There's no denying what God's plan HAS been for the Israelites since His covenant with Abraham in the book of Genesis. If you're arguing that today's land of Palestine is rightfully the land of the Phillistines (the modern day Palestinians), then you're completely arguing AGAINST everything that God has written about the future of His people in EVERY beginning book of the Bible.

I mean, I don't have a problem arguing with you over WHO owns the land of Israel, but don't try to convince me in the meantime that I'm not as ENLIGHTENED as you because I haven't "looked at things" from the other side. I've looked things over SEVERAL times from the perspective of BOTH sides. And all I've seen thus far, is the CONSTANT attack of the Israeli in a literal sense (rockets being fired into Israel by the Palestinians), and the CONSTANT hate rhetoric printed in the mainstream media every single day.

Not only has Israel NOT been the aggressor in the Middle East SINCE their reformation as a state in 1948, but Israel has shown us SEVERAL times that they're willing to coexist with the Arab nations even IF it results in Israel having to give back conquered land to its enemies. I'm just saying, if the Palestinians MIRACULOUSLY were to stop firing rockets into Israel (and the surrounding Arab nations were to somehow HALT their plans for the destruction of Israel), then I would be willing to bet you there would be peace in the Middle East. Israel is NOT the nation that on a consistent rampage against its surrounding Arab neighbors. Matter of fact, it's the OTHER way around.

Keep in mind that none of this negates the fact that the land of "milk and honey" has belonged to God's chosen people since the beginning of God's covenant with Abraham, in the book of Genesis.

And if you truely ARE a Christian (like you claim you are), and you ACTUALLY believe that what the Bible says IS true, then you will cease to defend the REAL terrorists who are responsible for the invasion of Gaza...the PALESTINIANS.

Otherwise, you can argue that the Palestinians are the rightful owner of Gaza all you want, but first you should just admit that you're an atheist, and that the Bible is merely a "fairy-tale" created by the "Religilous" people. I mean, at least Bill Maher is man enought to admit it.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

So what are you saying poboys? Are you saying the Old Testament isn't true? Did you not read the part about God's covenant with Abraham, promising him the the land of the Canaanites? Matter of fact, it's Genesis 12 verses 1-3 in case you're wondering.

The Old Testament is the Torah. You might as well convert to
Judaism, which is in fact Talmudism. In fact if you search you will find it is the religion of the ancient Pharisees. It is a violent and racist religion, and its priests were exposed by Jesus as being of their "father, the Devil"; a "murderer and a liar". He referred to them as "liars" who "steal the homes of widows". He accused them of all manner of evil, and for 'bearing witness unto the truth', Jesus was falsely accused by the Pharisees and killed. Why do you throw everything out the window when it comes to Jesus?
Many Christians think like you do today because of the increasing influence of Talmudic Judaism in America and the world to the detriment of Jew and non-Jew alike.
The Israel spoken of and being sought, is not of this earth, Jesus was highly critical of the religious authorities of his day for corrupting the truth with the spirit of materialism. The Jews, under the propaganda of the Pharisees, were expecting a political messiah to deliver them. They did not understand the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God to be found within one's very self as a present reality. I do not believe in the murder of innocents in the name of a God, any God supposedly written in the Bible by these same Pharisees. BTW, Do you happen to own a Bible written by
C.I. Scofield?

What more do you want poboys? If you're a Christian...like you CLAIM you are, then maybe you should go back and read the Bible ONE more time. There's no denying what God's plan HAS been for the Israelites since His covenant with Abraham in the book of Genesis. If you're arguing that today's land of Palestine is rightfully the land of the Phillistines (the modern day Palestinians), then you're completely arguing AGAINST everything that God has written about the future of His people in EVERY beginning book of the Bible.

God did not write the Bible! While I do not embrace the every-word-is-the-word-of-God in the bible, I know we have been given some truth. Much of that truth is in coded or esoteric language. Much of it is remnants of history entwined in the stories of the Pharisee priests, and some is in plain language for those who have 'ears to hear and eyes to see'. IS(Isis)-RA(Ra)-EL(El) (three gods in one) -- is a phantom nation, whose phantom 'Jewish' citizens claim all the land ceded them by their phantom god, Jehovah. The high priests (today called rabbis) claim it is their biblical heritage. From its beginnings the lesser brethren, as the Zionist elite call the 'common' Jews -- have been brainwashed into believing every jot and tittle of the lies fed them from birth.
They firmly believe they are the 'chosen' of their god and have an inherent right to that property, and it was never intended they stop at the borders given them by the UN mandate. Unfortunately, the Christian Zionists / Judeo-Christians have been led to believe the same fable by their churches. What are the ultimately intended borders of Israel anyway?
As Seymour Hersh revealed in his book, The Samson Option, Israel has stockpiled weapons of mass destruction in underground caverns in the Negev Desert for at least 30 years; weapons equipped with not only nuclear, but chemical and bacteriological warheads, all ready to go.
Do they have the will or power actually to use these weapons? Perhaps they already have. There is the danger, however, that they, like Samson, could pull the temple down upon themselves. In order to grasp this concept fully, we must turn once more to Israel Shahak's monumental work, Jewish History, Jewish Religion.

Shahak, who arrived in Palestine in 1945, became an admirer of David Ben-Gurion. He explains how he became his dedicated opponent: "In 1956, I eagerly swallowed all of Ben-Gurion's political and military reasons for Israel initiating the Suez War, until he (in spite of being an atheist, proud of his disregard of the commandments of Jewish religion) pronounced in the Knesset [Israel's Congress] on the third day of the war, that the real reason for it is 'the restoration of the kingdom of David and Solomon' to its Biblical borders."
This coming from the mouth of an Atheist. Think about that for a minute.It's not about fulfilling some sort of Bible prophecy, It's about
territorial conquest!
Is this vast territory still the ultimate goal of Israeli expansionism? Shahak further states that in May 1993 Ariel Sharon formally proposed in the Likud Convention that Israel should adopt the Biblical borders concept as its official policy. Shahak sees the alternatives that face Israeli-Jewish society:
"It can become a fully closed and warlike ghetto, a Jewish Sparta supported by the labour of Arab helots, kept in existence by its influence on the U.S. political establishment and by threats to use its nuclear power, or. . . it can become an open society.
The second choice is dependent on an honest examination of its Jewish past, or the admission that Jewish chauvinism and exclusivism exist, and on an honest examination of the attitudes of Judaism towards the non-Jews."
Think about this: if they are really adopting the Biblical borders plan, as Ariel Sharon suggested, it appears the whole planet earth is to be taken over by them. It seems the Old Testament is a political program for world dominion, wrapped in a cloak of religion.

I mean, I don't have a problem arguing with you over WHO owns the land of Israel, but don't try to convince me in the meantime that I'm not as ENLIGHTENED as you because I haven't "looked at things" from the other side. I've looked things over SEVERAL times from the perspective of BOTH sides. And all I've seen thus far, is the CONSTANT attack of the Israeli in a literal sense (rockets being fired into Israel by the Palestinians), and the CONSTANT hate rhetoric printed in the mainstream media every single day.

You hardly seem to display a certain neutrality
or open mindedness given you stick to the dogmatic teachings, instilled in you, every time this subject comes up, you always convey that it is ok for the Zionists movement to continue to murder because way back in the old testament (the Talmud) God says it is the plan, not stopping to consider that transfer of land from the Palestinians to the present inhabitants, was a giant leap for the ancient priesthood which has planned for centuries to gain World Dominion. And the majority of people who live in Israel are not Semites. Nor are their ancestors Semites. Nor have their ancestors ever set foot in that 'Holy Land' of the Jews.
By their own admission, the majority of 'Jews' in Palestine (over 90%) are ancestors of the tribe known as Khazars, from the land of Khazaria, whose Kagan (king) adopted the religion of the Pharisees -- Talmudism, not Judaism -- in 740 A.D. There were millions of them who adopted Talmudism.
These Khazars are of Turko-Mongolian descent, a warlike tribe that lived deep in the heart of Asia. Their ancestors were so violent and barbaric they were driven out of Asia into eastern Europe. They settled in the area between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. The Khazarian kingdom was the biggest country in all of Europe, comprised of 800,000 square miles. There was no 'country' called Russia at that time.

Not only has Israel NOT been the aggressor in the Middle East SINCE their reformation as a state in 1948, but Israel has shown us SEVERAL times that they're willing to coexist with the Arab nations even IF it results in Israel having to give back conquered land to its enemies. I'm just saying, if the Palestinians MIRACULOUSLY were to stop firing rockets into Israel (and the surrounding Arab nations were to somehow HALT their plans for the destruction of Israel), then I would be willing to bet you there would be peace in the Middle East. Israel is NOT the nation that on a consistent rampage against its surrounding Arab neighbors. Matter of fact, it's the OTHER way around.

Really? When in May 1993 Ariel Sharon formally proposed in the Likud that Israel should adopt the Biblical borders as its official policy? If you were Israels neighbor, wouldn't you be afraid of this?
Those borders being: all of Sinai and a part of northern Egypt; all of Jordan and a large chunk of Saudi Arabia; all of Kuwait and a part of Iraq south of the Euphrates; all of Lebanon and all of Syria; together with a huge part of Turkey; and the island of Cyprus.

Keep in mind that none of this negates the fact that the land of "milk and honey" has belonged to God's chosen people since the beginning of God's covenant with Abraham, in the book of Genesis.

The lie of the 'chosen people' was first challenged by John the Baptist to the faces of the religious rulers, who often prided themselves as the children of Abraham for a boast; John upbraided them for their self-righteousness and borrowed piety on the back of Abraham and all the faithful, saying God could raise children of Abraham from mere stones -- for Abraham according the flesh meant NOTHING -- and later by Jesus as well, in several altercations face to face with chief priests who invoked the name of Abraham to justify their deceit, faithlessness and evil deeds. Jesus told them, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
Zionism - The Occult Guild Of Antichrist

And if you truely ARE a Christian (like you claim you are), and you ACTUALLY believe that what the Bible says IS true, then you will cease to defend the REAL terrorists who are responsible for the invasion of Gaza...the PALESTINIANS.

Don't try to put words in my mouth Ike. Being a Christian to you might not be the same to someone else. From what I can tell, you are like the fundamentalist Christians that have embraced the Kingdom on Earth/End Times message, promulgated by Cyrus Scofield. Scofield was a scam-artist who, after serving a prison sentence for swindling his widowed mother-in-law out of her money, was taken under wing by Samuel Untermeyer, a wealthy and influential Jew. The Scofield Reference Bible was financed by a group of Untermeyer's friends and published by the Oxford Press, a Rothschild tool. The Scofield Reference bible is used in nearly every seminary in the U.S. to 'train' the Christian clergy. The word 'seminary' should maybe be pronounced 'cemetery', as it buries the Spirit of the Christ. Many things are changed in it, and have different meanings.
The 'belief' was injected into our Christian minds as babes that "In the end times Jesus will return to reign on earth for a thousand years of PEACE" (after which, Satan will once again be released, which makes NO sense at all anyway).

Otherwise, you can argue that the Palestinians are the rightful owner of Gaza all you want, but first you should just admit that you're an atheist, and that the Bible is merely a "fairy-tale" created by the "Religilous" people. I mean, at least Bill Maher is man enought to admit it.

Atheist, huh? I have my beliefs
about God etc. I must be an Atheist if I don't believe what you do? We are told time and time again in the scriptures, we are sojourners in this world; that we should not seek the things of the world, for it is quickly passing away; that the great exemplars of faith as recorded in Hebrews 11 sought a "better country" -- not meaning any material land on earth, but the Kingdom of God itself, and "a new heaven and a new earth," forthcoming, "wherein righteousness dwells." Fundamentalist Christians fail to see that.
I don't follow Zionism - The Occult Guild Of The Antichrist.
So what is driving Christian evangelicals to support Antichrist Zionist Israel in spite of all this? Hoodwinked by many false converts from Judaism, who so over-emphasize the Jewish roots of Christianity to a complete dominance (naturally reducing the Christian experience to mere religion as is the result of the Judaistic poison), as well as by a myriad of Tele-evangelists/Preachers who feed their spiritually starving congregations with a litany of Old Covenant 'types and shadows' obsessions (some even going so far as to lead their congregations back to practices under the Mosaic ordinances, from observing Passover to various feasts and rituals), as well as the "Jewishness" obsessed 'Messianic' Christians (Jews who have converted to Christianity but who retain a varying degree of Jewish culture and religious tradition and fleshly pride, some to the dissolution or subordination of Christ's accomplishments at the cross -- some overshadowing the Christic New Covenant ordination and rebirth) hinging everything on a single element of prophecy - - the 'rebirth' of National Israel.
The Zionist Jews who occupy that land of Palestine are nothing more than squatters, placed there by a world conspiracy orchestrated by the British and the United Nations. They have simply taken the seat of an ancient Royalty which is no more of this world, for it was completed with Christ Jesus, a Jew of the Royal house of David, whose throne is heavenly (that is, of the incorruptible and eternal), not earthly (the corruptible), until all his enemies are put beneath his feet.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

The Old Testament is the Torah. You might as well convert to
Judaism

I get it. So you're a Christian who completely disregards the Old Testament. Which means that Jesus wouldn't be the Messiah after all, since all of the prophesies written about Him in the Old Testament are apparently irrelevant.

That makes sense.

Kind of like how a tree doesn't need roots anymore once it obtains branches and leaves. By golly poboy, I think it's all starting to become clear to me.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

The lie of the 'chosen people' was first challenged by John the Baptist to the faces of the religious rulers, who often prided themselves as the children of Abraham for a boast; John upbraided them for their self-righteousness and borrowed piety on the back of Abraham and all the faithful, saying God could raise children of Abraham from mere stones -- for Abraham according the flesh meant NOTHING -- and later by Jesus as well, in several altercations face to face with chief priests who invoked the name of Abraham to justify their deceit, faithlessness and evil deeds. Jesus told them, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
Zionism - The Occult Guild Of Antichrist

And quite honestly poboys, you couldn't be further off from the point John the Baptist was trying to make to the Pharisees. John the Baptist never ONCE said that the covenant between God and Abraham meant NOTHING.

He told the Pharisees that they needed to repent and be baptized, not that the covenant between God and Abraham was erased.

John the Baptist was informing the Pharisees that being a "son of Abraham" wasn't good enough to earn them eternal salvation, and that they needed to be baptized in the Spirit rather then try to earn salvation through the rewards of their (so-called) following the Law.

Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring-not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

How in the world do you come to the conclusion that the Old Testament isn't part of the Christian Bible and that John the Baptist somehow "erased" the Old Testament by reminding the Pharisees of their need to be baptized?

Where ever you are getting these ridiculous notions is completely beyond me, but if there's ANYBODY who is twisting the stories mentioned in the Bible, it is you sir, for the "Christian" Bible includes BOTH the Old Testament AND the New Testament. Without one you can not have the other.

If I were you I would spend more time reading what the New Testament is ACTUALLY saying instead of searching for internet links that support your anti-Semetic views.

Just my .02

[Venom351R]

Israel = good

Hamas = Bad

/thread

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

I get it. So you're a Christian who completely disregards the Old Testament. Which means that Jesus wouldn't be the Messiah after all, since all of the prophesies written about Him in the Old Testament are apparently irrelevant.

You said it was written by God himself which is so not true, I was merely pointing that out, with you of course twisting it to mean I totally disregard it.. Nice try And yes in it it is prophesied,that Jesus is the messiah, and they disregarded that, something that pleased Lucifer no doubt.
They use biblical references, to justify their position, because all the killing and slaughter, all the chaos and insanity is being promulgated by the Zionist elite, most of whom are avowed atheists, and who use the Torah/Talmud to control their lesser brethren.
Considering the Old Testament, (Torah / Talmud), we should first establish just who is to be the receiver of this 'blessing' from Jehovah, and also consider who or what is Jehovah / Yahweh. Maybe after this you might understand why I do not take everything in the Bible to mean what some people tell me. See,
they claim that they are commanded by their god to be 'good neighbors' in any and every nation wherein they live during the Diaspora (dispersion). But reading the old testament, whether that be the Masoretic text or the KJV, or whatever, you can see the writing on the wall. They are commanded by their god to destroy and rule over every piece of ground the soles of their feet touch, including the inhabitants therein. ZIONISM-THE OCCULT GUILD OF THE ANTI-CHRIST. -What does that mean?
Well their promised land is here on Earth (Israel), where as Jesus says that the "kingdom of God is within you", didn't he? Wasn't Lucifer cast down to the Earth after his rebellion against God?
Also I found something about the name "Jehovah" that was interesting. It is complicated and not easy to follow,(at least not for me anyway) and pertains to the Anti-Christ the following is taken from
ISRAEL-THE HOMELAND OF THE JEWS-
"It appears that the name 'Jehovah' is a derivation of the main Greek god, Zeus. To the ancient Greeks, Zeus was 'god the father', or ZeusPater. The Romans named him Jupiter (ZeusPater), and Jupiter and Jove were one and the same. Next, I will excerpt from section 8 of the book Jewish Persecution. Please stay with this and follow it to its completion, if you will. For us to understand the hoax that has been perpetrated upon us, and which has led us to where we are today is possibly the second most important discovery we can make.

Actually, it is two sides of the same coin, in a sense, for when we discard the lies, the truth shines brilliantly, lighting up our minds and hearts. What is left when the lies are dispelled is that: We are not physical bodies made of mud, and when we 'die' we either go to heaven or hell. We are Spiritual beings, inhabiting physical bodies. We are of our Father Creator, light eternal and loved and lovable and loving, for God/Creator is Love, and God/Creator doesn't make mistakes. He is not mistaken about us either. We are the mistaken ones. We are mistaken about whom and what we really are.
Here is the excerpt from Section 8 of Jewish Persecution. I hope you will take time to read the on-line portion of the book that is completed to date.
Jewish Persecution -001- website
"A guest on the Sweet Liberty broadcast informed us that Jupiter/Jove/Jehovah were one and the same. A search on the internet (using 'Jove' and 'Jehovah') brought astounding results. (All emphasis in these excerpts are added)

The first item on the list was: A Masonic Song - 'A performance of this song in New York City was reported in Gaine's Mercury, July 2, 1781':

[verse 1] "By sacred influence hurl'd, From chaos rose the world, Great will of Jove. Grand architect supreme, Fountains of wisdom stream, Receive our humble theme, Duty and love.

[verse 3] Jehovah we implore Peace to his realms restore . . ."

It was stated that this song was sung to the tune of 'God Save the King', which is the exact tune to which Americans sing 'My country tis of thee; sweet land of liberty...' Oh, my... have we been duped!
Another reference to Jove/Jehovah was titled '666 in Ancient Religions'. The explanation of a group of symbols, signs, and codes stated in part:

"...The Hebrew-Chaldee JHVH (Jehovah forming the crossbar of the H could also be translated JOVE, a minced form of Jehovah and a name of the sun-god Jupiter."

Here is the first verse of The Universal Prayer, by Alexander Pope, once again using Jove and Jehovah as the same:

"FATHER of all! In every age, In every clime adored, By saint, by savage and by sage, Jehovah, Jove, or Lord!. . . "

Other information from several varied sources discovered in the search for Jehovah/ Jove/Jupiter and Minerva is excerpted below:

'According to an ancient legend, the first man was made by Zeus. His breastplate was the aegis, his bird was the eagle. In Zeus' honour, the Olympic games are held every four years.

... essentially the same 'inflation' of the leading god happened with Greek and Roman religion: Greek Zeus and Latin Jupiter or Jove.

Dzeus or Deus Pater... in Latin Deus Pater meaning 'God, the Father'.

At the end of, and especially after, the much later 'Babylonian Exile' of the Jews, the Jews. . . inflated a local god of the Palestinian soil, Yahweh, into a Jew-choosing divinity.'
It was not the Jews who inflated that god of the Palestinian soil. It was the priests! Zeus was the name the Greeks gave the Lord of the World. The same god in Rome was Jupiter or Jove. Jove-Jehovah's symbol was the EAGLE.

Is it not interesting that the symbol for the U.S. is the eagle?... and Bush dubbed the neverendingwar on terrorism Operation Noble Eagle - ONE - from the United Nations' slogan "Out of the many - one". In Latin it is : "e pluribus unim", which slogan we find on the 'dollar' bill of the Federal Reserve Bank, also created and controlled by the same group terrorizing the world today. They call themselves Jews.

Since 'they' seem quite untouchable, the gentiles will transfer their hatred to the lesser brethren, which has been part of the plan from the beginning. It's called 'divide and conquer'.
"The Jews have long written the vowel-less Tetragrammaton YHWH (for YaHWeH) with the added Masoretic points of the Hebrew-Phoenician word which they actually pronounced Adonai, meaning 'Lord' which gave rise to the name 'Jehovah'."

"Thus, what was originally a transpersonal universal intelligence underlying and constituting all existence became a very personal Middle Eastern despot who paradoxically also loves you. It was the alpha-male/father raised to infinite magnitude."

"With the goddesses Juno and Minerva, Jupiter formed the triad whose worship was the central cult of the Roman state."

"In the council of the gods that followed the overthrow of his father Saturn, Jupiter (Jove) was crowned Sovereign Lord of all the World and of all the gods."
Juno, Minerva and Jupiter formed the triad. Would that be the 'trinity'?

If Jupiter/Jove had overthrown his father because he felt Saturn to be inadequate to the work, could that compare to the 'fallen son' Lucifer?

Jupiter/Jove was crowned Sovereign Lord of all the World, and of all the gods. Would that be Jehovah/Yahweh? "A" god? And the people asked of Jehovah:

"Who is like unto thee, O Lord, among the Gods?"

A god among the gods. Speaking of the Sovereign Lord of all the World, it is fitting here to repeat earlier excerpts from the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion:
The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion
"When the hour strikes for our Sovereign Lord of all the World to be crowned it is these same hands [the mob] which will sweep away everything that might be a hindrance thereto." Protocol No. 3.

"Ever since that time [French Revolution] we have been leading the peoples from one disenchantment to another, so that in the end they should turn also from us in favour of that King Despot of the blood of Zion, whom we are preparing for the world." Protocol No. 3.

"However, it is probably all the same to the world who is its Sovereign Lord, whether the head of Catholicism or our Despot of the Blood of Zion." Protocol No.4.
Their King Despot of the Blood of Zion which they're preparing for the world! That makes ones blood run cold.

So, not only are the Jews not Jews, Jehovah/Jove/Yahweh/YHWH -- whatever the name of the mysterious, vengeful, bloody and warring god of the Pharisees -- is not our Loving Father in Heaven -- Creator of all that is, even the 'lesser gods' -- of which Jesus spoke.

Getting back to the scriptural quotes, from the Masoretic Text, in Exodus verse 7, Jehovah said:

"and I will take you to Me for a people, and I will be to you a God; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, who [which] brought you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

I will be to you "a" God. Repeating that statement, in Leviticus 26:12 Jehovah/Jove/YHWH said to his chosen people:

"And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people. I am the Lord your God which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt. . ."

In Deuteronomy 10:15 he said:

"Only the Lord has a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day."

And to drive home the point of his 'godness' to his special people, in verse 17 he said:

For the LORD your God, He is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the awful [a terrible], who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.
Going to Deuteronomy 11: 23-25, Jehovah enlarges the promised borders, as long as his special and peculiar people obey all of his statutes and commandments -- that is to utterly destroy everyone who gets in their path, or who happens to be the inhabitants of a town they're passing through, including all the animals, men, women and tiny babes. . . "utterly destroy everything that breaths":

then will the LORD drive out all these nations from before you, and ye shall dispossess nations greater and mightier [possess greater nations and mightier] than yourselves.

Every place whereon the sole of your foot shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness, and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the hinder [uttermost] sea shall be your border.

There shall no man be able to stand against you [before you]: the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as He hath spoken unto you.

Here's a 'loving' god for you. In Deuteronomy 14:2, once again confirming his 'choosing', Jehovah said:

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

In verse 21 he instructed his people thusly:
Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself; thou mayest give it unto the stranger that is within thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto a foreigner; for thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God.

That's not very nice, is it? Sell a diseased animal or give it to someone else to eat? To bring the peculiar people into even more focus, in Deuteronomy 15 Jehovah tells them that every seven years they must release all debtors -- as long as they are of the peculiar people group. Of a foreigner:

"thou mayest exact it again, but that which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release".

"Exact it again". . . and again, and again, and again. Today, in order to afford the mortgage payments on their homes they pay three to five times the actual cost of the home and mortgages are spread out for thirty to fifty years. If that isn't racism, there must be another definition for that word. Then there are the requirements for borrowing and lending, in 15:6:
For the LORD thy God will bless thee, as He promised thee; and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt rule over many nations, but they shall not rule over thee.

In other words, they are to be the recipients of all the land whereon they tread; they will rule over nations; and they will 'loan to many nations but will not borrow'.

The money-changers of yesterday are today's bankers - money lenders. The IMF/World Bank/Federal Reserve/ etc. They call themselves Jews. Regarding usury, the peculiar and special people are told, in 23:19:

Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother, usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of anything that is lent upon usury.

Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Once again, the Identity crowd, in order to obey this are allowed to charge interest on their loans, which is totally at odds with the early Christians. In fact, monarchs hired the Khazarian Jews as their treasurers so they could charge usury. Today, that admonition is ignored by Jew and Gentile alike, because they charge their 'usury' to all and every one.

In Deuteronomy 7:16 we can begin to understand the terrible and endless slaughter of the Palestinians who are the true inhabitants of that land now called ISRAEL:

And thou shalt consume all the peoples that the LORD thy God shall deliver unto thee; thine eye shall not pity them; neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.

"Consume" in my Webster's 21st Century dictionary means: 1) "use up in the process of living"; 2) "destroy, as by fire".

In 7: 22:

And the LORD thy God will cast out those nations before thee by little and little; thou mayest not consume them quickly, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee. But the LORD thy God shall deliver them up before thee, and shall discomfit them with a great discomfiture, [and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction] until they be destroyed.
In Deuteronomy 20:16

But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth.

In 26:19, again:

And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour, and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the Lord thy God, as he hath spoken.

And again in 28:9:

The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God..."

Isaiah 60: 10-14

And aliens [the sons of strangers] shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee; for in My wrath I smote thee, but in My favour have I had compassion on thee.

Thy gates also shall be open continually, day and night, they shall not be shut; that men may bring unto thee the wealth of the nations [the force of the Gentiles], and their kings in procession.

For that nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

And the sons of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee, and all they that despised thee shall bow down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee The city of the LORD, the Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

There's more. In Isaiah 60: 20-22:

They shall inherit the land for ever; The branch of My planting, the work of My hands that I may be glorified. The smallest shall become a thousand, And the least a mighty nation; I the Lord will hasten it in its time.

Isaiah 54: 2,3

Enlarge the place of thy tent, And let them stretch forth the curtains of thy habitations, spare not; Lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes. For thou shalt spread abroad [break forth] on the right and on the left;

And thy seed shall possess the nations, And make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Isaiah 60: 2-5

For, behold, darkness shall cover the earth, And gross darkness the peoples; But upon thee the Lord will arise, And His glory shall be seen upon thee. And nations [the Gentiles] shall walk at thy light, And kings at the brightness of thy rising.

Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: They all are gathered together, and come to thee; Thy sons come from far, And thy daughters are borne on the [shall be nursed at thy] side.

Then thou shalt see and be radiant [flow together], And thy heart shall throb [fear] and be enlarged; Because the abundance of the sea shall be turned unto thee, The wealth of the nations [forces of the Gentiles] shall come unto thee.
"The wealth of the nations." The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank make loans to third-world nations in exchange for their natural resources. They're called 'debt for equity swaps'. The poor nations cannot pay, so the U.S. Treasury is raided (off the backs of the American slaves), and the 'chosen' lay claim to all the natural resources of those nations. In America, it's the Federal Reserve Banks.

Let's look at the term "Jewish Homeland". We've been led to belief that is Israel, and then we read from the Torah/Old Testament that Jehovah/Jove has given them dominion over the world and every inch of soil on which their feet should trod. Homeland: does that begin to sound familiar to Americans, who are now living under the restructuring of the U.S. Government via the "Homeland Security Act"? So. . . when ever did America become the 'homeland', and whose homeland is it anyway?
It really is pitiful. Jesus had given his life to destroy the self-fulfilling prophecies of Zionist millennialism, and yet within a century of his death, we find the "Christian" Church endeavoring to bring about the same, heedless of Jesus' repeated admonishment, "My kingdom is not of this world!"
There is more about the term the "Jewish Homeland", and how it actually pertains to the USA, after all, we've been led to belief that is Israel, and then we read from the Torah/Old Testament that Jehovah/Jove has given them dominion over the world and every inch of soil on which their feet should trod.
Homeland: does that begin to sound familiar to Americans, who are now living under the restructuring of the U.S. Government via the "Homeland Security Act"? So. . . when ever did America become the 'homeland', and whose homeland is it anyway?
Hope that clears things up a bit

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

And quite honestly poboys, you couldn't be further off from the point John the Baptist was trying to make to the Pharisees. John the Baptist never ONCE said that the covenant between God and Abraham meant NOTHING.

He told the Pharisees that they needed to repent and be baptized, not that the covenant between God and Abraham was erased.

No Ike I was trying to point out what you just pointed out

John the Baptist was informing the Pharisees that being a "son of Abraham" wasn't good enough to earn them eternal salvation, and that they needed to be baptized in the Spirit rather then try to earn salvation through the rewards of their (so-called) following the Law.

Exactly Jesus said not to concern your self with things of this world but to prepare for his kingdom in Heaven, right?

How in the world do you come to the conclusion that the Old Testament isn't part of the Christian Bible and that John the Baptist somehow "erased" the Old Testament by reminding the Pharisees of their need to be baptized?

It is part of the Bible, I'm just questioning what it means and how Zionism uses it to spread through out the world destroying nations and people in its path, in the name of "God", like I said before I don't believe their God is the same as the one I believe created the world I think they follow the Anti-Christ They prepare the world for his coming.

Where ever you are getting these ridiculous notions is completely beyond me, but if there's ANYBODY who is twisting the stories mentioned in the Bible, it is you sir, for the "Christian" Bible includes BOTH the Old Testament AND the New Testament. Without one you can not have the other.

You say I'm twisting things around, but don't stop to think it may have been twisted already

If I were you I would spend more time reading what the New Testament is ACTUALLY saying instead of searching for internet links that support your anti-Semetic views.

Look up SEMETIC. I am not anti-semetic, I am anti Zionism!
" One of the myths that has been perpetrated on the world is that only Jews are semites. This is totally inaccurate. Unfortunately, the ADL (the Anti-Defamation League) has made a fortune in donations and has conned most media networks and most people in the world into believing this untruth.

If one looks into the history of the word, “semite”, it has to do with a language group and no more. The semitic languages are, at least according to most linguistic experts, Amharic (spoken in Ethiopia and Eritrea, the lands once known as Abyssinia), Arabic (spoken in all the Arab countries and in many Muslim countries because it is the language of the Qur’an), Hebrew (spoken in Israel and by some Jews and others outside of Israel), Aramaic (spoken primarily by the Chaldeans of Iraq and by some Catholic and Maronite Christians in the world, at least in their church services if not in their homes or business) and Syriac (spoken by a few in various parts of Syria and in the Middle East). Incidentally, according to most linguists, Abraham, the father of the Jews and Arabs, spoke Aramaic, that was the language of the land at the time, not Hebrew."
T hus, when a person from the ADL calls someone who is critical of Israel, Zionists or Zionism, an “anti-semite”, this is pure nonsense. The person speaking is simply critical of Israel or Zionism. Also, if a person speaks against an Arab, and as I pointed out, Arabs speak a semitic language, he may be anti-Arab, but he is not “anti-semitic.”. In both cases, the person may be anti-zionist or may be a racist and be anti-Jewish or anti-Arab, but the person is SIMPLY NOT ANTI-SEMITIC .
s o s: Semite?? Who is a Semite??
MAP OF THE SEMETIC PEOPLES-
Map_Arab-World-2.jpg (image)

Just my .02

Mine too.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by T1 3VOM

I'm curious, is Israel preventing the Palestinians from moving in Egypt?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/wo...?_r=2&emc=eta1

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

Not only has Israel NOT been the aggressor in the Middle East SINCE their reformation as a state in 1948, but Israel has shown us SEVERAL times that they're willing to coexist with the Arab nations ..

A mission to expel and annihilate
(Friday 09 January 2009)
GEOFF SIMONS

GEOFF SIMONS charts the origins of Israeli aggression from the colonial ambitions of its founding fathers.

NEARLY 1,000 Palestinian dead, more than 3,500 wounded, limbless children, babies blasted into pieces, the wounded dying on hospital floors. "We are wading in death, blood and amputees," says Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert.

The Israeli military does its filthy work with impunity.

For day after day, the imprisoned people of Gaza are attacked from land, sea and air. There is no sanctuary, no refuge.

The Israeli forces bomb schools, homes, ambulances in the street, electricity supplies, civilians in cars or waiting for transport and the dead pile up in the mortuaries.

Where is the international outrage? Where is the global disgust for a manifest genocide? The United States, as ever, provides diplomatic cover for the plainly psychopathic juggernaut and restocks Israeli arsenals to facilitate the ongoing slaughter. And did any US arms shipments pass through Britain, as they did during the Israeli onslaught on Lebanon?

Why did this fresh aggression begin? Because, say the Israelis, "we could not tolerate thousands of rockets raining down on civilians" - implying massive casualties. In fact, 20 Israelis around Gaza have been killed in 10 years.

And "the Palestinians broke the ceasefire" - another manifest lie.

Why is there no mention of the Israeli bombing raid on November 4 that killed six Palestinians? Or of the bombing raid on November 17 that killed four more? Why is there no mention of the targeted assassinations perpetrated by the Israelis through the period of the ceasefire?

Why is there so little attention to the endless siege of Gaza, in the West euphemistically called "closures?"

One of the conditions of the ceasefire was that the murderous siege be lifted. But nothing changed.

On one occasion, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice went to Israel to press for a minor lifting of the blockade. Under this minimalist US pressure, some "closures" were lifted. Rice went back to Washington and the Israelis reneged, imposing the harsh siege as before.

So the Israelis were again free to shoot Palestinian fishermen, to ram aid ships in international waters and to restrict at whim the flow of UN humanitarian aid. What is the death toll caused by denying men, women and children adequate supplies of food, drinkable water and medical supplies?

It was reported that, over the last three weeks, 750,000 Palestinians, half the population of Gaza, were without running water. How long a person lasts without water is reckoned in days rather than weeks. The sick, for example those with chronic kidney disease, will die sooner.

And the Israelis assert that there is no humanitarian crisis.

The current genocidal behaviour is wholly characteristic of the Israeli state since its inception in 1948.

Many Israeli leaders knew what they were doing. In a remarkable admission, Israel's first prime minister David Ben Gurion said: "If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural. We have taken their country. They only see one thing - we have come here and stolen their country."

The former Israeli defence minister Moshe Dayan said: "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. There is not a single place built in Israel that did not have a former Arab population."

In 1969, prime minister Golda Meir tried to simplify the matter. "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people. It is not as if we came here and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."

And the Zionist Yesha'ayahu Ben Porat declared: "One truth is that there is no zionism, no settlement and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs and expropriating lands."

Israeli racism was never far below the surface. The teacher Aharon Avraham Kabak commented on Arab children from Yemen: "The Yemenite child, after so many generations of idleness, penury, abjectness and servility, brings with him a tendency for delusion, negligence, slowness of movement, with bodily lethargy and weakness of the nerves."

Prominent Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson observed that the "non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness."

And that was not all. "The body of the Jewish embryo is on a higher level than the body of a non-Jew."

In the same vein, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh declared: "If every single cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA. There is something infinitely more holy about Jewish life than non-Jewish life."

Chaim Weizmann recorded the British support for Jewish racism. "The British told us that there are some hundred thousand negroes ("kushim") and for those (the Palestinians) there is no value."

In this context, Arabs were referred to as "dogs," "savages," "semi-savages" and "yellow rabble dressed up in gaudy, savage rags."

Therefore, the only Israeli solutions to deal with Palestinians on their own land were ethnic cleansing and extermination - long planned by zionist activists.

The founder of political zionism Theodor Herzl wrote in his diary on June 12 1895: "We shall endeavour to expel the poor population (the Arabs) across the border unnoticed, denying it any employment in our own country."

Writer Moshe Smilansky recorded an 1891 dialogue between two zionists. One says: "We'll take the land from them. We'll harass them until they get out. We'll seize the land. We'll expel them. Let them go back to the Arab countries."

The zionist Israel Zangwill declared in 1920 that the Arabs could not be allowed "to block so valuable a piece of historic reconstruction (the creation of Israel)" and so they must be made to "trek" out of the country. "The Arabs have given nothing to Palestine and are not entitled to the rules of democracy."

Zionists dubbed their ethnic cleansing plans "transfer." Specific transfer committees were set up in 1937, 1944 and 1948 to arrange the expulsion of the Palestinians. Head of the official 1948 committee Yosef Weitz said: "The only solution is to transfer the Arabs. Not a single village or a single tribe must be left."

The Israelis then framed the Plan Dalet to expel the Palestinians.

The transfer committees were supported by military action to secure the land for Jews. In 1948, Ben Gurion said that the war would "give us the land," declaring that the "concepts of 'ours' and 'not ours' are peace concepts only and, in war, they lose their whole meaning."

There is substantial documentation that the Israeli army perpetrated many massacres in 1948-9 as the ultimate form of ethnic cleansing.

The Israeli military historian Arieh Yitzhaki declared that the Israelis carried out massacres in almost every Arab village.

"From almost each report in the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) archives concerning the conquest of Arab villages, a smell of massacre emanates." Another Israeli historian Uri Milstein commented that every battle in 1948 ended with a massacre.

Former Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin boasted of the psychological impact of the famous Deir Yassin massacre in which hundreds of helpless men, women and children were raped, mutilated and slaughtered.

"In the rest of the country, the Arabs began to flee in terror. The legend of Deir Yassin helped us. The Arabs began to flee in panic shouting: 'Deir Yassin'."

Other massacres were perpetrated in Beit Daras, al-Dawayma, Houla, Sharafat, Kafr Qasem, Khan Younis and countless other towns and villages. Salman Abu-Sitta of the London-based Palestinian Return Centre has recorded more than two dozen massacres of Arab civilians that took place in 1948.

In 1953, Ariel Sharon, then commander of the terrorist Unit 101, perpetrated the deliberate massacre of 67 civilians, with many more wounded, in the village of Qibya.

He later wrote in his memoirs: "The orders were utterly clear. Qibya was to be an example to everyone."

The massacres of 1948 and the following years established the methods by which the state of Israel would be consolidated.

Some 20,000 civilians, mostly women and children, were killed in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon. One thousand seven hundred civilians were slaughtered with direct Israeli complicity in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila. In 2006, the Marwahin refugees were ordered from their homes and then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter gunship and 106 civilians, most of them children, were killed in 1996 in the Israeli bombing of the Qana refugee camp.

In this last case, investigated by UN secretary general Boutros Boutros-Ghali, the Israelis fired shells to explode in the air and rain down shrapnel on the people below.

The Israelis typically lied about what had happened but were exposed as deliberate murderers by the investigation.

When Boutros-Ghali insisted publishing the damning report against US wishes, he was denied a second term as secretary general.

The Israelis have also frequently slaughtered Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, events which have been addressed by UN resolutions and statements, the Geneva Conventions, customary humanitarian protocols and other statements of international law.

At a time when Saddam Hussein was being criticised for ignoring 16 UN security council resolutions, some of which were absurdly demanding that he surrender non-existent WMD, Israel was in violation of more than 80.

The violated security council resolutions, spanning the history of the Israeli state, addressed, among other matters, the failure to deal with Jewish terrorism, perpetrating massacres of Arab civilians, carrying out ethnic cleansing (deportations, expulsions), building illegal settlements, bombing Arab states (Iraq, Tunisia, Syria), maintaining illegal occupations, violating ceasefires, inciting violence against civilians, demolishing houses, building an illegal apartheid wall - condemned by the World Court - impeding humanitarian supplies and violating many other aspects of international law.

The language of the security council resolutions is unambiguous and remarkable in view of the US blocking veto.

The security council - at different times "alarmed" and "deeply shocked" - has variously "deplored," "strongly deplored," "condemned," "strongly condemned" and "censured" Israeli actions over a period of more than half a century.

In the context of Israeli actions over decades, the Gaza genocide is typical of a state that is totally indifferent to international law and which sees military slaughter as the only way to solve political problems.

Without the protection of an ethically and legally derelict United States, Israel would be under comprehensive military and other sanctions, with its leaders indicted for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

It's because Israel was ATTACKED in 1948, resulting in the defeat of SEVERAL Arab nations, and the loss of some of their land. Israel was just fine with the British mandate, which gave them ownership of SOME of the land in Palestine. However, it was the ARABS who attacked, which resulted in a loss of their land fair and square.

Well here is a list of the towns and villages that were victims of murderous ethnic cleansing
at the hands of Israeli terrorists. BEFORE THE ARAB COUNTRIES MOUNTED AN ATTACK IN DEFENSE OF THE HELPLESS.

TIME LINE OF THE ISRAELI AGGRESSION AGAINST THE
PALESTINIANS IN THE 1948 WAR.

December, 1947 : The Jewish conquest of Palestine gets underway.

December 25th, 1947 : Invasion of al Mas'udiyya
Israeli military operation : Haganah or IZL

Early February, 1948 : Invasion of Lifta

15th of February 1948. : Invasion of al Burj, Khirbat
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown terror unit from the Haganah.
Israeli military operation : Terror campaign.

Mid February 1948 : Invasion of Qisarya
Invading Israeli brigade : Palmach troops, headed by Yitzhak Rabin, occupied and destroyed the village.
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Early 1948. Barrat Qisarya was probably ethnically cleansed at the same time as the nearby village of Qisarya.
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown forces from the Haganah

February 17th, 1948 : Invasion of Fajja
Invading Israeli brigade : Haganah and lrgun
Israeli military operation : Terror campaign.

Mid February 1948 : Invasion of Daliyat al Rawha'
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown troops from the Haganah.
Israeli military operation : Mishmar Ha'emek Battle

March 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of al 'Ubaydiyya

March 5th, 1948 : Invasion of al Manshiyya (Tiberias)
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown troops from the Haganah

Early March, 1948 : Invasion of al Manara

15th of March. al Ghubayya al Tahta was ethnically cleansed on 15th of March and occupied on the 8th of April 1948.
Invading Israeli brigade : Units drawn from the Palmach, as well as the Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades
Israeli military operation : Battle for Mishmar Ha'emek

March 15th, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi al Hawarith
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

March 26th, 1948 : Invasion of Qumya
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

March 26th, 1948 : Invasion of al Tira (Baysan)

Late March 1948 : Invasion of Qira
Invading Israeli brigade : Terror campaign by a Haganah intelligence unit.

Late March or early April, 1948 : Invasion of Umm Khalid
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Late March or early April, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi Qabbani
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Late March, 1948 : Invasion of al Muwaylih

April 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of Ijlil al Qibliyya

April 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of Ijlil al Shamaliyya

April 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of Tabsur
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

April 5th, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Lid, Khirbat
Invading Israeli brigade : Alexandroni Brigade
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

April 5th, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Far, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Nachshon or Yoram

April 6th, 1948 : Invasion of Khulda
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

April 6th, 1948 : Invasion of Saydun
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

8th-9th of April 1948. : Invasion of al Ghubayya al Fawqa (al Ghubayya al Fawqa changed hands several time with Fawzi al-Qawuqji).
Invading Israeli brigade : Some units drawn from the Palmach (strike force), and from the Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades.
Israeli military operation : Mishmar ha-'Emeq Battle

April 8th-9th, 1948 : Invasion of al Qastal (on the 8th it was recaptured by Palestinian guerrillas, and during that battle 'Abd al-Qadir al-Husseini was killed).
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's Fourth Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

April 9th, 1948 : Invasion of Dayr Yasin. On this day the terror gang (IZL or ETZEL) lead by the former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin committed the infamous Dayr Yasin massacre, which resulted in the murder of 245 people, including more than 70 women and children. It is worth noting that 25 of the survivors were paraded around West Jerusalem as trophies, and were later brought back to Dayr Yassin where they were executed.
Invading Israeli brigade : The terror gangs of Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL or ETZEL) and Stern Gang (LEHI) headed by the former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin.

10th of April 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Fuqara'
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Coastal Clearing

10th of April 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Nufay'at
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Coastal Clearing

April 11th, 1948 : Invasion of Qalunya
Invading Israeli brigade : Possibly by IZL (Irgun Zvai Leumi or ITZEL) terror gangs and some Haganah troops.
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Nahchon

April 11th-12th, 1948 : Invasion of Nasir al Din
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade

12th April 1948 : Invasion of Abu Shusha (Haifa)
Invading Israeli brigade : Combination of First Battalion of the Palmach, Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades.
Israeli military operation : The Battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq.

12th of April 1948 (village destroyed on 15th of April) : Invasion of Abu Zurayq
Invading Israeli brigade : A combination from the Palmach 1st Battalion, Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades
Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq

12th-13th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Kafrayn
Invading Israeli brigade : Possibly Carmeli brigade
Israeli military operation : Battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq

12th-13th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Mansi
Israeli military operation : The Battle for Mishmar Ha'emek

12th-13th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Naghnaghiyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown Haganah troops
Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq

April 12th, 1948 : Invasion of Biyar 'Adas
Invading Israeli brigade : The Stern terror gangs

April 12th-13th, 1948 : Invasion of Ayn al Mansi
Invading Israeli brigade : Unknown Palmach units
Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar Ha'emek

15th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Sarkas, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : Most likely Coastal Clearing

April 15th, 1948 : Invasion of Zalafa, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

April 15th, 1948 : Invasion of al Manshiyya (Tulkarm)
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

April 16th, 1948 : Invasion of Saris. Possibly exchanged hands until May 9th, 1948.
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown brigade from the Haganah
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

April 17th, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi Hunayn

April 18th, 1948 : Invasion of Samakh. Exchanged hands several times with the Syrians until May 21st, 1948.
Israeli military operation : Golani Brigade

April 19, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Tiberias falls to the invading Jews.

20th April 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Zubayd
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

20th of April 1948 : Invasion of al 'Ulmaniyya
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

April 20th, 1948 : Invasion of al Mansura (al Ramla)
Invading Israeli brigade : Either Giv'ati Brigade or Har' el Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Barak (lightening)

April 20th, 1948 : Invasion of al Mukhayzin
Invading Israeli brigade : Giva'ti brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Har'el

April 20th-21st, 1948 : Invasion of Miska
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

May 20th, 1948, or possibly mid April : Invasion of al Safiriyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Either Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) or Alexandroni Brigade
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Chametz

21st of April 1948 : Invasion of al Husayniyya
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

April 22, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Haifa falls to the invading Jews.

22nd of April 1948 (fell in the Demilitarized Zone) : Invasion of Kirad al Baqqara
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

22nd of April 1948 (fell in the Demilitarized Zone) : Invasion of Kirad al Ghannama
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

22nd of April 1948 : Invasion of Balad al Shaykh
Invading Israeli brigade : Carmeli Brigade
Israeli military operation : Either Bi'ur Chametz or Operation Bi'ur Chametz

April 22nd, 1948 : Invasion of Kafr Sabt

April 22nd, 1948 : Invasion of al Majdal
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unidentified troops from the Haganah

April 24th, 1948 : Invasion of Ghuwayr Abu Shusha
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unidentified troops from the Palmach

25th of April 1948 : Invasion of Yajur
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Bi'ur Chametz

April 27th-28th, 1948 : Invasion of Saqiya
Israeli military operation : Operation Chametz

April 28, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Jaffa falls to the invading Jews.

April 28th or May 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of al Dalhamiyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Possibly the Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Gideon

April 29th, 1948 : Invasion of Kafr 'Ana
Invading Israeli brigade : Alexandroni Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Chametz

April 29th, 1948 : Invasion of Salama
Invading Israeli brigade : Alexandroni Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Chametz

April 29th, 1948 : Invasion of al Khayriyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Alexandroni Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Chametz

April 30, 1948 : The Arab quarter of the Palestinian city of Jerusalem falls to the invading Jews.

30th of April 1948 : Invasion of Madahil
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

April 30th, 1948 : Invasion of Yazur
Israeli military operation : Operation Chametz

April, 1949 (fell on the Armistice line) : Invasion of al Latrun

Early April, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Naqquba
Invading Israeli brigade : A force of 1,500 Palmach and Haganah troops
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

Early April, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Thul
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

Early April, 1948 : Invasion of Bayyarat Hannun
Israeli military operation : Operation Coastal Clearing

Early April, 1948 : Invasion of Ghabat Kafr Sur
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Early April, 1948 : Invasion of Raml Zayta
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Early April, 1948 : Invasion of al Zababida, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Either mid-July or late April, 1948 : Invasion of al Wa'ra al Sawda', Khirbat
Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Dekal

End of April 1948 : Invasion of Sa'sa', Khirbat
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown units from the Haganah.
Israeli military operation : Possibly Bi'ur Chametz

End of April, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Dajan
Invading Israeli brigade : Alexandroni Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Chametz

First half of April, 1948 : Invasion of Umm Kalkha
Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon

Late April 1948 : Invasion of al Damun, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : During or after the battle for Haifa

Late April 1948 : Invasion of Tulayl
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

Mid April 1948 : Invasion of al Kasayir, Khirbat
Invading Israeli brigade : Carmeli Brigade
Israeli military operation : Mishmar Ha'emek Battle

Mid-April 1948 : Invasion of Hawsha
Invading Israeli brigade : Carmeli Brigade
Israeli military operation : Mishmar Ha'emek Battle

Possibly during the last week of April 1948 : Invasion of al Mansura, Khirbat
Invading Israeli brigade : Most likely the Carmeli Brigade
Israeli military operation : Either Bi'ur Chametz or Operation Bi'ur Chametz

Possibly early April 1948 : Invasion of Arab Zahrat al Dumayri

Possibly early April 1948 : Invasion of Lid, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar Ha'emek

Possibly late April, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi al Hamam

Possibly mid April 1948 : Invasion of al Rihaniyya
Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq

Second half of April 1948 : Invasion of Wa'arat al Sarris
Israeli military operation : Operation Bi'ur Chametz

1st of May 1948 : Invasion of Ghuraba
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

1st of May 1948 : Invasion of al Hamra'
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

1st-2nd of May 1948 : Invasion of Ayn al Zaytun

1st-3rd of May 1948 : Invasion of Biriyya
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

2nd of May 1948 : Invasion of Fir'im
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

2nd of May 1948 : Invasion of Mughr al Khayt
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

2nd of May 1948 : Invasion of Qabba'a
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

4th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Shuna, Khirbat
Invading Israeli brigade : Possibly Haganah and lrgun forces

4th of May 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Shamalina
Israeli military operation : Operation Matate (Broom) (Sub operation of Yiftach Operation)

4th of May 1948 : Invasion of Jubb Yusuf

4th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Qudayriyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Some troops from the Haganah and the Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Matate (Sub-operation of Operation Yiftach)

4th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Zanghariyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown brigade from the Haganah
Israeli military operation : Operation Matate (Broom) part of Operation Yiftach

May 4th, 1948 : Invasion of al Samakiyya
Israeli military operation : Operation Matat (Broom). A sub-operation within Operation Yiftach

May 4th, 1948 : Invasion of al Tabigha
Israeli military operation : Operation Matat (Broom)

5th of May 1948 : Invasion of Burayka
Israeli military operation : Either during the battle for Mishma Ha'emek or during operation Coastal Clearing.

May 6th, 1948 : Invasion of Qatra
Invading Israeli brigade : Giv'ati Brigade

9th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Ja'una
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

Early May, 1948 : Invasion of Yaquq

Early May 1948 : Invasion of al Shuna
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

Early May, 1948 : Invasion of Fardisya
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Early May, 1948 : Invasion of al Jalama (Tulkarm)
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

Possibly early May 1948 : Invasion of al Jalama (Haifa)
Invading Israeli brigade : Carmeli Brigade

Possibly early May, 1948 : Invasion of al Majdal, Khirbat
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

May 8, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Beisan falls to the invading Jews.

May 9th, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Mahsir
Invading Israeli brigade : Har'el Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Makkabi

May 9th, 1948 : Invasion of Aqir
Invading Israeli brigade : Giv'ati Brigade

May 9th, 1948 : Invasion of Bash****
Invading Israeli brigade : Giva'ti brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Barak (lightening)

May 9th, 1948 : Invasion of Bir Salim
Invading Israeli brigade : Giva'ti brigade

May 10, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Safad falls to the invading Jews.

10th May 1948 : Invasion of Arab Suqrir
Invading Israeli brigade : Giv'ati Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Barak (lightening)

10th-11th of May 1948 : Invasion of Dallata
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

May 10th-11th, 1948 : Invasion of Farwana
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Gidion Operation

May 10th-11th, 1948 : Invasion of al Ashrafiyya
Invading Israeli brigade : Golan Brigades and possibly Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) as well.
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

Possibly the 10th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Zahiriyya al Tahta
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

11th of May 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Daras. Recaptured briefly by the Sudanese army on July 9th.
Invading Israeli brigade : Giv'ati Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Barak (lightening)

11th of May 1948 : Invasion of Akbara
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

11th of May 1948 : Invasion of Qaddita
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

11th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Buwayziyya
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

11th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Khalisa
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

11th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Zuq al Tahtani
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

11th-14th of May 1948 : Invasion of Hunin
Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic cleansing champion Yigal Allon)

12th of May 1948 : Invasion of Simsim
Invading Israeli brigade : Negev Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Barak

12th-13th of May 1948 : Invasion of Burayr
Invading Israeli brigade : Giv'ati Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Barak (lightening)

12th-14th of May 1948 : Invasion of Khubbayza
Invading Israeli brigade : Most likely Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) troops, which is the same terror gangs that committed several massacres against many Palestinians. See Dayr Yasin for example
Israeli military operation : During or soon after the battle form Mishmar Ha'emek.

12th-14th of May 1948 : Invasion of Sabbarin
Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing

12th-14th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Sindiyana
Invading Israeli brigade : Some units from the Haganah and the Irgun gangs.
Israeli military operation : Either Operation Coastal Clearing or Operation Mishmar Ha'emek.

12th-15th of May 1948 : Invasion of al Butaymat. See Khubbayza for more.
Invading Israeli brigade : Most likely Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) terror gang, which is the same terror gang that committed several massacres against many unarmed Palestinians. For example, see Dayr Yasin.
Israeli military operation : Battle for Mishmar Ha'emek

May 12th, 1948 : Invasion of al Hamidiyya. al Hamidiyya was evacuated a few days earlier.
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

May 12th, 1948 : Invasion of Sirin
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

May 12th, 1948 : Invasion of Tall al Shawk
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

May 12th, 1948 : Invasion of al Sakhina
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

May 12th, 1948 : Invasion of Sirin
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon

May 12th, 1948 : Invasion of Tall al Shawk
Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon


COMPLETE LIST:
Time Line of the Israeli Aggression against the Palestinians in the 1948 War.

May 15, 1948 THE ARMIES OF THE ARAB STATES ENTER THE CIVIL WAR- The State of Israel is proclaimed, and more importantly the British wash their hands of Palestine. The Arab states can not ignore the massacres of Palestinians and the outright theft of all their property. They put together an army of about 20,000 and enter the war in support of their brethren, in an attempt to resist this brutal invasion of Arab land. Unfortunately, the Jews had between 40,000 and 60,000 well equipped fighters and the outcome was never in doubt unless the Arab states committed more troops and resources. Note that the Arab states could not support their brethren directly before May 15, 1948, or they would have ended up fighting the British (although some irregulars from these countries had joined the local Palestinian fighters).

1947-9 : In all 750,000 Palestinians would find themselves living on the borders of the Jewish state, living in deplorable conditions, in massive refugee camps, their homes, orchards, farms, bank accounts and futures having been stolen by the Jews. And even worse (if that is possible) the Jews would blame the victims for their suffering, accusing the Arab armies of precipitating the war with their intervention on the 15th of May 1948. This LIE is so outrageous, it makes one weep. As is obvious to any sane person, the Jewish invasion of Palestine started 6 months before the Arab armies finally decided to stand up to the invaders. If only the Arab armies had invaded earlier.

[DBMSTNG]

be wary of propaganda. i'm just going to touch on a few subjects here due to it's length. i'm not disputing everything written, but will say that it is laced with propaganda and biased journalism.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

NEARLY 1,000 Palestinian dead, more than 3,500 wounded, limbless children, babies blasted into pieces, the wounded dying on hospital floors. "We are wading in death, blood and amputees," says Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert.

The Israeli forces bomb schools, homes, ambulances in the street, electricity supplies, civilians in cars or waiting for transport and the dead pile up in the mortuaries.

So the Israelis were again free to shoot Palestinian fishermen, to ram aid ships in international waters and to restrict at whim the flow of UN humanitarian aid. What is the death toll caused by denying men, women and children adequate supplies of food, drinkable water and medical supplies?

It was reported that, over the last three weeks, 750,000 Palestinians, half the population of Gaza, were without running water. How long a person lasts without water is reckoned in days rather than weeks. The sick, for example those with chronic kidney disease, will die sooner.

the emphasis on the children is propaganda to sway people against Israel. i'm not denying that children have been hurt/killed. but truth is that the Palestinians, like Iraqi and Afghan insurgents are guerrilla fighters who hide amongst the general population. they don't fight military to military. the seek civilian deaths and when Israel unintentionally kills civilians they act as if Israel is fighting more dirty than themselves. Palestinians target civilians with their suicide bombers and rocket launches. Israel on the other hand has been dropping leaflets warning Palestinian civilians to leave the areas where Palestinian fighters are hiding amongst them.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

The former Israeli defence minister Moshe Dayan said: "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. There is not a single place built in Israel that did not have a former Arab population."

same thing can be said about the U.S. and Canada about the Native Americans.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

In 1969, prime minister Golda Meir tried to simplify the matter. "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people. It is not as if we came here and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."

this is taken somewhat out of context. from my understanding, there was never a sovereign nation of Palestinians in Israel. no established country. so they didn't take land from the country of Palestine because there never was a country of Palestine. something to that effect anyway. and Jews were exiled from Israel by the Romans 2000 years ago. so it is their ancestral land just as much as the Palestinians.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Israeli racism was never far below the surface. The teacher Aharon Avraham Kabak commented on Arab children from Yemen: "The Yemenite child, after so many generations of idleness, penury, abjectness and servility, brings with him a tendency for delusion, negligence, slowness of movement, with bodily lethargy and weakness of the nerves."

Prominent Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson observed that the "non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness."

And that was not all. "The body of the Jewish embryo is on a higher level than the body of a non-Jew."

In the same vein, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh declared: "If every single cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA. There is something infinitely more holy about Jewish life than non-Jewish life."

Chaim Weizmann recorded the British support for Jewish racism. "The British told us that there are some hundred thousand negroes ("kushim") and for those (the Palestinians) there is no value."

In this context, Arabs were referred to as "dogs," "savages," "semi-savages" and "yellow rabble dressed up in gaudy, savage rags."

Therefore, the only Israeli solutions to deal with Palestinians on their own land were ethnic cleansing and extermination - long planned by zionist activists.

every group of people has it's extremists. it doesn't mean that they represent the views of that entire group. would we say that David Duke speaks for the majority of the U.S.? of course not.

as far as referring to arabs as dogs, c'mon, who are we kidding here? it's not like the Arabs don't speak of Israelis as "zionist pigs", "infidels" and other such terms.

neither side is innocent here. but as long as the Palestinians attack Israel with terrorism, it's hard to view them as victims. if the Palestinians would stop all attacks, call for a cease fire, and respect the cease fire, then there would be much support for them if they were attack by Israel.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Well here is a list of the towns and villages that were victims of murderous ethnic cleansing
at the hands of Israeli terrorists. BEFORE THE ARAB COUNTRIES MOUNTED AN ATTACK IN DEFENSE OF THE HELPLESS.

TIME LINE OF THE ISRAELI AGGRESSION AGAINST THE
PALESTINIANS IN THE 1948 WAR.

Interesting. It would seem that YOUR list of Jewish violence doesn't begin until the year 1947. I guess you're COMPLELETELY forgetting the Arab violence that may have initiated it in the first place.

Let's go to the charts that show the Arab violence BEFORE 1947...shall we?

"From late 1919, Arab attacks on Jewish settlements became more frequent and relentless, particularly in the Jordan Valley and the Galilee."2


"As early as 1920, Palestine Arab opposition to Zionism and desire for self-government led to a threat to public security. ... three days of rioting in Jerusalem, in which Arab mobs fell upon Jews with sticks, stones and knives. The Arab Police either adopted a passive attitude or joined in the riots. British troops were called out, the police were disarmed and order was finally reestablished. As a result of these disturbances, five Jews and four Arabs were killed and 211 Jews and 21 Arabs were wounded."3


"1 March 1920 In an attack by large numbers of Arabs from the village of Halsa, eight Jews were killed ..."4


In April 1920 Arabs rioted against Jews during the Nebi Musa festival.


On May 1st, 1921 “Arabs of Jaffa murderously attacked Jewish inhabitants of the town and Arab raids were made on five Jewish rural settlements; the disorders were suppressed by the police and military forces. Forty-seven Jews were killed and 146 wounded, mostly by Arabs … The hostility shown towards the Jews during the riots was shared by Arabs of all classes; Moslem and Christian Arabs …”5


"On May Day, 1921, Arab mobs attacked Jewish residents of Jaffa and stormed the Zionist Immigration Center, killing 13 persons. Again the military forces had to be summoned to replace the unreliable Arab police. The disorders, however, spread. On the 3rd May Hebrew colonies at Kafr Saba and Ain Hal were looted. On the 5th May the village of Petah Tiqvah was attacked by several thousand armed Arabs in semi-military formation, and was saved from destruction only by the arrival of several squadrons of cavalry. On the 6th May Arabs besieged Haderah and attempted an attack on Rehovoth. In these disorders 47 Jews were killed and 146 wounded, mostly by Arabs, and 48 Arabs were killed and 73 wounded, mostly by police and military action."6


In 1929 general anti-Jewish riots spread throughout Palestine. From August 23rd to the 29th, “murderous attacks were made on the Jews in various parts of the country. The most violent attacks were those against the old established Jewish communities at Hebron and Safed; there were also attacks in Jerusalem and Jaffa and against several Jewish rural settlements. There was little retaliation by Jews, of whom 133 were killed and 339 wounded.”7

Britain had to rush troops up from Egypt to restore order. The survivors of the Hebron massacre fled the city having their property and land confiscated by Arabs. Another account reads, "... Arabs armed with knives and clubs invaded the new city of Jerusalem and began a massacre of the Jews. On the following day more than 60 Jews were killed at Hebron, and in the succeeding days a number of Jewish colonies were attacked. The police had to open fire to prevent outrages in Nablus and Jaffa, and Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter in Safed, killing or wounding 45 persons. In all, 133 Jews were killed and 339 wounded, and six Jewish colonies were destroyed. There were 116 reported Arab deaths, many of them as a result of police and military activities."8


"The period between 1929 and 1936 was marked by periodic violence. In August 1930, there was a minor Arab outbreak at Nablus. The years 1930 and 1931 saw a series of terrorist murders of Jews. Agrarian crime was endemic and the Arabs attempted to take into their own hands the prevention of illegal Jewish immigration. In October 1931, Arab demonstrations and riots directed against the Government, as well as against the Jews, took place in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa and Babes. In the course of these and related incidents, 24 civilians were killed and 204 wounded."9


“By July [1938] the Arab gangs had become thoroughly organized and their activities co-ordinated. Rebel courts were set up by which many loyal Arabs and a number of Jews who had been abducted were tried and executed in the following months … the Old City of Jerusalem became a rallying point of bandits from which acts of violence, murder, and intimidation were organized and perpetrated freely and with impunity.”10


For almost three years (1936-39) there was a general Arab uprising protesting Jewish immigration which resulted in many Jews being murdered and beaten including yet another massacre of 20 Jews in Tiberius.


"The revolt enjoyed popular support throughout the Arab Middle East. Even before its outbreak, the Arab world had been smoldering with the idea of a jihad (holy war) against the Yishuv. The speaker of the Iraqi parliament, Sa’id al-Haj Thabit, on a visit to Palestine in March 1936, repeatedly called for such a jihad."11

"'Every Arab in Palestine will do everything in his power to crush down Zionism, because Zionism and Arabism can never be united together' - Awni Bey Abdulhadi to the Peel Commission 13 January 1937"12

Spending to provide for public security "rose from £265,000 in 1923 to over ... £2,230,000 in 1936-37"13, an 840% increase because of Arab aggression directed against Arab political opponents, Jews, and British officials. It was not just a case of a particularly troublesome group of Arabs giving the rest a bad name: "The hostility shown toward the Jews during the riots was shared by Arabs of all classes; Moslem and Christian Arabs, whose relations had hitherto been uneasy, were for once united.”14


"... nothing has done us more damage and ruined relations between Jews and Arabs than the Arab press. From the day it was born in the Land of Israel ... to the present it has not ceased to denounce us and malign our name. This virulent activity has instilled deep hatred of us in the hearts of the Arabs and has poisoned the atmosphere not only in this land but also in the Arab countries (Transjordan, Syria, Egypt, and others)."15


In reaction to the April 1946 report from the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in Palestine, "One Foreign Office cable ... spoke of Arab hatred of the Jews as being greater than that of the Nazis. The AHC ... issued an 'ultimatum' and threatened 'jihad.' ... The publication of the report triggered violent demonstrations in Baghdad and Palestine. ... At least one Baghdad newspaper called for jihad ... Another called on the Arabs to 'annihilate all European Jews in Palestine.'"16 The Arab League "secretly decided to help the Palestinian Arabs with funds, arms, and volunteers should it come to an armed struggle."17


"The chain of unfortunate events which began in Palestine almost immediately after the adoption of the resolution of 29 November demonstrated conclusively not only that the necessary Arab willingness to co-operate was lacking, but that a dangerous antagonism existed which was provoking virtual civil war even before the termination of the Mandate on 15 May 1948."

During the civil war stage of the 1948 War (before the main Arab invasions of May 1948), Arab violence and aggression antagonized almost every battle the Jews found themselves having to fight. The attacks began the very next day after the November 1947 UN resolution to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab states was passed, in what Benny Morris describes as a "clear, organized Palestinian Arab response to the UN resolution."19 He also points out that "most of the fighting between November 1947 and mid-May 1948 occurred in the areas earmarked for Jewish statehood ... and where the Jews enjoyed demographic superiority. Almost no fighting occurred in the almost exclusively Arab-populated central and upper Galilee and Samaria ..."25

A survey of Morris’ prominent study The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited20 reveals in more detail the climate of violence Jews faced:

“… the Palestinian Arab leaders, headed by the exiled AHC chief, Husseini, rejected partition and launched a three-day general strike, accompanied by a wave of anti-Jewish terrorism in the cities and on the roads. The Arab states … rejected partition and sent volunteers, arms and money to help the Palestinians. … the Palestinians were reinforced by several thousand volunteers … Within weeks the sporadic violence had snowballed into a full-scale civil war between the two communities.” (pg. 13)


“The first roadside ambushes occurred near Kfar Syrkin … when two buses were attacked and seven Jewish passengers were shot dead. The same day, snipers in Jaffa began firing at passers-by in Tel Aviv. The AHC … declared a three-day general strike … thus releasing the urban masses for action. … a mob, unobstructed by British forces, stormed the (Jewish) new commercial centre in Jerusalem, looting, burning shops and attacking Jews. Snipers exchanged fire in Haifa and attacks were launched on the neighbourhoods of Tel Aviv … Parts of Palestine were gripped by chaos; the escalation toward full-scale civil war had begun.” (pg. 65)


“Arab gunmen attacked Jewish cars and trucks … increasingly organized in British- and Haganah-protected convoys, urban neighbourhoods and rural settlements and cultivators. The attackers never pretended to single out combatants; every Jew was a legitimate target. The hostilities swiftly spread from a handful of urban centeres to various parts of the countryside.” (pg. 65)


“… Husseini agents and irregulars sporadically launched attacks on Jews … with ambushes against traffic moving through Wadi Rushmiya. From then on, there were almost daily exchanges of fire along the seam neighbourhoods, almost always initiated by Arabs.” (Pg. 100)


“… as with Haifa, the exodus from the town [of Jaffa] was triggered by the start of hostilities, which were initiated by Jaffa’s militiamen, who began sniping into neighbouring Tel Aviv on 30 November 1947. The following day, dozens of Arabs assaulted Jewish houses bordering on the northern Manshiya neighbourhood and an Arab mob in Abu Kabir, a neighbourhood to the west, attacked a Jewish car and murdered its three passengers.” (Pg. 110)


“Immediately following the passage of the resolution, the Jewish neighbourhoods … came under sniper fire from Arab quarters and … the community was gradually strangulated by the blockade of the main road to Tel Aviv. … despite the convoy system and occasional British military assistance, the city’s Jewish districts were under almost complete siege.” (Pg. 117)


“Hostilities began [in Jerusalem] … with Arab gunmen and stone-throwers attacking Jewish buses at the Jaffa Gate … and with a mob attack … against the downtown New Commercial Centre, where dozens of shops and workshops were torched and looted, and 24 Jews were injured. British troops and police failed to intervene against the rioters but arrested 16 Haganah men who had.” (Pg. 119)


“The cycle of violence that precipitated Romema’s evacuation began with attacks on Jewish traffic leaving Jerusalem and the Haganah killing … of Atiya ‘adel … who, using a motorcycle, doubled as a scout and informant for the Arab irregulars about Jewish convoys.” (Pg. 120)


“The inhabitants of Sheikh Badr … also evacuated their homes … following one or more reprisal raids (provoked by Arab sniping) …” (Birth Revisited, Pg. 121)


“The raid [retaliatory raid by the Haganah on 18 January in villages of Mansurat al Kheit, Al Husseiniyya, and ‘Ulmaniyya] followed repeated Arab attacks on Jewish traffic nearby.” (Pg. 132)


“According to the British GOC North Sector … the final battle [for Haifa] was triggered by the Arab irregulars … Arab fire killed four Jews and wounded five. Starting that day, the Arabs ‘stepped up their use of mortars’ … The Haganah was far from eager to tangle with them. But the Arab pressure … culminated in the abrupt British troop redeployment … and Arab fire early that morning against Jewish traffic … forced the Carmeli Brigade’s hand.” (Pg. 187)


“The battle of Mishmar Ha’emek … was initiated by Qawuqji’s ALA. … when the ALA shelled and attempted to take Mishmar Ha’emek. (Pg. 240)


“As the battle of Mishmar Ha’emek raged to the south, an ALA battalion took up positions in Shafa ‘Amr, Khirbet Kasayir and Hawsha … and intermittently attacked Jewish traffic and settlements … “ (Pg. 244)


"Sixty-two Jews were murdered by Arabs in the first week after the UN partition plan was passed, and by May 15, 1948, a total of 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists and army units which attacked every place of Jewish inhabitation in Palestine.
The attacks succeeded in placing Jerusalem under siege and eventually cutting off its water supply. All Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go about the country in convoys. In every major city where Jews and Arabs lived in mixed neighborhoods the Jewish areas came under attack. This was true in Haifa's Hadar Hacarmel as well as Jerusalem's Old City.
Massacres were not uncommon. THIRTY-NINE Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifa's oil refinery on December 30, 1947. On January 16, 1948, 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion. On February 22, 44 Jews were murdered in a bombing on Jerusalem's Rehov Ben-Yehuda. And on February 29, 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine, eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry. Thirty-five Jews were murdered during the Mount Scopus convoy massacre on April 13. And 127 Jews were massacred at Kfar Etzion on May 15, 1948, after 30 others had died defending the Etzion Bloc."23

As the civil war gave way to a multi-front invasion from Arab nations, the sentiment of Palestine’s Arab population toward the Jews was still further established when “crowds of Arabs stood by the roads leading to the frontiers of Palestine, enthusiastically welcoming the advancing armies”21. The stated goal of these invading armies was of course, the genocide of the Jews of Israel.

In addition to identifying more than 100 Jewish settlements that were attacked by Arabs in the timeframes 1920-21, 1936-38, and 1947-48, Sir Martin Gilbert also points out extensive Jewish property damage such as timber yards burnt, crops burnt, haystacks burnt, orchards uprooted or burnt, threshing floors burnt, homes burnt, olive groves uprooted, thousands of citrus trees uprooted or burnt, vegetable crops uprooted, hundreds of acres of wheat destroyed, shops damaged with rocks, cattle killed, etc.22.

Illustrating a special kind of hatred that is not satisfied with mere killing, Jewish corpse mutilation was a problem as well:

"I can say that our Palmach officers—men given to understatement rather than hysteria—instructed us, when in action, to always save a bullet or a grenade for ourselves, so as not to fall alive into the hands of Arab irregulars. Capture was not an option."24


"On 27 March, a seven-vehicle convoy, carrying eighty-nine men and women was attacked on the road to the besieged Kibbutz Yehiam by units of the ALA’s Second Yarmuk Battalion and local militiamen. ... The following morning, the British and Haganah found forty-seven bodies, many of them mutilated."26


"The occupants of one vehicle committed suicide with dynamite rather than fall into Arab hands. (Jews captured in convoy battles were normally put to death and mutilated.)"27


"Arabs began to push down the slope, giving chase. Arieli and a handful of other officers took up positions nearby to cover the retreat. Their bodies were later found there, either felled by Arab bullets or by their own hands, with grenades, to avoid capture."28


"Just before dawn, 9 April, two of Tabenkin’s companies stormed into al-Qastal – which they found completely deserted, save for dozens of corpses. The Palmahniks buried the dead. Some of the Jewish corpses had been badly mutilated."29


"In place they found the bodies of sixteen Alexandroni troopers left behind when the Legion took the position two days before. One Israeli report read, “On most of them were signs of severe mutilation: stab wounds, some had their genitals cut off, some were missing ears. One body was cut into many bits with its genitalia stuffed in its mouth."30


"At one point in the battle, the “French Commando,” many of them ex-Foreign Legionnaires and Moroccan Jews, retreated from one of the conquered positions under heavy Egyptian fire, leaving behind, under a railway bridge, a handful of wounded. When they retook the position a half-hour later, they found that all the wounded had been murdered, with their genitals mutilated and their penises stuck in their mouths. Some had been blinded with burning cigarettes."31