[90mustangGT]

A lot of palistinians are about to die. They have been begging for it for a while. Hamas is already saying that Isreal is using excessive force, saying that "proportionate force" should be used. The idea that if you go to war with an army of 10,000, then you should only be allowed to use 10,000 of your own troops. Stupid palistinians shouldn't have picked a war with an army much bigger than they are. Darwin Award Night.

I hope Isreal gives them a very un-PC ass whoopin, because if there is any other reason to wipe them out, they launch these rockets constantly at civilians, but when the beatdown starts comming thier way, they whine, cry about thier dead civilians, who arn't really civilians.

ADD: Isreal does not target civilians, Hamas does. Every day, Hamas launches rockets into Isreal, not even remotely towards any military sites. What does the "world community" say? Nothing, that's just what Hamas does, it's accepted as normal. When Isreal finally strikes back, the "world community" says it's too much. If Hamas had a military like the Isreali's, they would use it. The don't because they CAN'T, and that is the fact. They asked for it, now they are going to get it. Isreal's troops are lining up, the slaughter will begin.

Hezbollah claimed "victory" in 2006 because they survived, many people around the world said that Isreal got beat, when in fact, it wasn't that at all, but because Isreal showed restraint, people said they lost. I hope that boasting ends up costing Hamas everything, I hope Isreal doesn't stop until all of Gaza is destroyed and taken back, and every Hamas member is either dead or in prison.

Isreal does not target civilians, but Hamas and Hezbollah intertwines with the civilian population, and those civilians have no problem with it. The only reason the whine is because people listen. Why don't the cowards come out and fight Isreal on the field of battle? They would lose, that is why, because they are the weaker people.

[Ike83]

Originally Posted by 90mustangGT

A lot of palistinians are about to die. They have been begging for it for a while. Hamas is already saying that Isreal is using excessive force, saying that "proportionate force" should be used. The idea that if you go to war with an army of 10,000, then you should only be allowed to use 10,000 of your own troops. Stupid palistinians shouldn't have picked a war with an army much bigger than they are. Darwin Award Night.

I hope Isreal gives them a very un-PC ass whoopin, because if there is any other reason to wipe them out, they launch these rockets constantly at civilians, but when the beatdown starts comming thier way, they whine, cry about thier dead civilians, who arn't really civilians.

Amen. Case closed.

[GDawg]

Why are we even involved in this?

[Kraw]

What I find amusing is all of the Pals' in other countries protesting. Hey guys, why not go BACK to your country and do something, instead of getting on TV and shouting?

Do you see any Israeli's in other countries protesting?

[T1 3VOM]

Originally Posted by GDawg

Why are we even involved in this?

How are we currently involved in this?

Aside from supplying Israel with money and Tech, we're pretty much staying out of it, aren't we?

However, there are several reasons I can see that we (I'm assuming you mean the United States) might want to be involved in this.

First: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Most of us, I think, view Hammas as a terrorist organization. I know terrorist is a media and political buzzword that has been over used and tends to sound cliche, but you need to realize that these people are shooting rockets into villages because they're not getting their way. If this tactic does, in time, get results, it will be repeated throughout the world by other terrorist groups. It's not hard to see some terrorist group attacking U.S. someday... oh wait...

Second: If someone does ever start bombing, or shooting, or poisoning our citizens, we'll go ballistic on the people responsible. It lends a bit of credibility and integrety to our country if we've previously backed another country in the same position.

Third: Israel has been a good ally to the U.S. It would be a shame to damage that because we don't support them when they are clearly in the right.

[Strype]

Originally Posted by GDawg

Why are we even involved in this?

Common interests.


It can be a lonely world.

[DBMSTNG]

i agree wholeheartedly with 90mustangGT. i saw palestinians in Cleveland yesterday protesting Israels attacks. why are they not also protesting hamas's firing of rockets into civilian neighborhoods? you know, the whole reason why Israel is on the offensive. palestinians are like little brothers. they love to hit their big brother, but when the big brother gets fed up and hits back, they cry "no fair" to their mommys.

[Wart]

I think both sides are trying to create a situation where the U.S. will have to take a more active part (more than supplying Israel with munitions (sic)) while we still have a President they can count on getting the U.S. actively involved.

This is a loser situation for the U.S., no matter what we do or don't do we'll be damned.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't contributed to this situation. O'l Goergie pranced around spewing how Democracy is his goal, then when a 'party' Georgie disagrees with gets voted into power Georgie refuses to acknowledge the legitimately elected Government body. That empowered the Israelis.

Oh well, both sides in this are crazy, I figure we ought ot let both have at it and let the chips fall where they may.

[Reimann]

[90mustangGT]

Originally Posted by Wart

I think both sides are trying to create a situation where the U.S. will have to take a more active part (more than supplying Israel with munitions (sic)) while we still have a President they can count on getting the U.S. actively involved.

This is a loser situation for the U.S., no matter what we do or don't do we'll be damned.

It's not like the U.S. hasn't contributed to this situation. O'l Goergie pranced around spewing how Democracy is his goal, then when a 'party' Georgie disagrees with gets voted into power Georgie refuses to acknowledge the legitimately elected Government body. That empowered the Israelis.

Oh well, both sides in this are crazy, I figure we ought ot let both have at it and let the chips fall where they may.

Yeah, I know, those damn Isreali's tieing bombs to themselves and going into Palistinian coffee shops and daycares and such. Those Isreali's making home made rockets and firing them into Gaza, they should be ashamed of themselves!

Yeah, we don't want to ruin our great relations with Hamas and Hezbollah, afterall, they love us.

Really, Mark, I dont understand how it could be bad for us. Honestly, we should just "hire" isreal to take care of Al Quida for us, that would the Al Quida's worse nightmare. There would be no detainees, there would be no trials, or even prisoners for that matter, they would just "dissappear" and Isreal woud deney they ever saw them, with a silly grin on thier faces.

[Strype]

Dr. Claw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CENTENNIALSTANG]

Hamas is protesting in their own wierd way the oppression they are being put through from Israel.

[Strype]

Originally Posted by CENTENNIALSTANG

Hamas is protesting in their own wierd way the oppression they are being put through from Israel.

Do continue... I gotta hear this.

It was my impression from history class and every other resource that it was the muslim extremist terrorist group called Hamas that is trying to oppress Isreal.

[Strype]

Originally Posted by CENTENNIALSTANG

Hamas is protesting in their own wierd way the oppression they are being put through from Israel.

Hey man I think you are just trying to say, "Their percieved oppression" but just in case, this is from the other thread...

After WWI, the area known as Palestine went to the British. They wanted to give the Jews their own free state. They turned it over to the UN, the UN agreed and made Israel a Jewish state in 1948.

Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq refused this and invaded. Israel won.

The PLO wants everything back the way it was before WWI.

Egypt kicked the UN out, Israel defended the UN with a strike against Egypt. All the neighboring countries once again attacked Israel. Israel not only won, but they took on additional land including the West Bank and the Gaza strip.

Hamas was founded in the late 80's and refuses the right for Israel to exist. They become a terrorist organization. Israel backs out of the Gaza Strip and West Bank but maintains the border and airspace as Israel. Hamas gains power of the Gaza strip in 2006 and start attacking Israel.

[poboys 94]

What gets me is that most of the people here see only things from poor Israels view. Actually the zionists propaganda machines have been working hard to convince you they are victims but in reality they simply want to wipe out all Palestinians. Men, women, children, it doesn't matter, they are doing to these people what they themselves said they were victims of. They don't mind crossing over to gaza and lob some rockets and then blame Palestinians. You all are entitled to your opinions, but I believe it has been pounded over and over in the MSM
that Israel is somehow the good guy in all of this. Stop and put yourselves in these peoples shoes and think about how you would react if an invading force took your land and killed your families, and put you in a prison like environment slowly starving you and your kids. Brutalizing people of all ages.
I try to look at things from both perpectives before I believe anything. And frankly, the media, most of the time is entirely biased towards the zionist view.
It is anti Christian and anti everything Jesus came here to teach.
They control their image through the media, and they for the most part control our government, they influence the way you perceive them. They are not an ally of the US because of this. We do their bidding. Their interest come before the US citizens, and most people don't see that.
Now they want to involve Iran into this so we/they
can justify an attack--"Israel's envoy to the U.S., Sallay Meridor, on Tuesday blamed Iran for the situation in Gaza.
"What you see in Gaza is made by Iran - it's funded by Iran, the terrorists are trained by Iran, it's supplied by Iran, the know-how to create short range rockets is Iranian, he said. "As an octopus, Iran has proxies in region and beyond the region, and at the same time they?re moving towards nuclear weapons."

"This is not a separate Israeli problem or a threat to Israel, this is very well-connected to the threat in Mumbai, Be'er Sheva, or God forbid, NYC, and we can defeat it only if we stand together determined not to let those terrorists to kill citizens and destroy our way of life. You must act against a terror if you want to give peace a chance," he said, adding: "We are making efforts to make sure that whatever humanitarian aid wants to get to Gaza will get into Gaza." What GDMNED Yes all the "terrorists" must be killed
or we will lose our way of life, like our freedom, and we will become a police state. Oh wait, our government is already doing that, for the "terrorists"
Why can't people see through all this ?



Zionist Hasbara operatives have been claiming that the current Israeli genocidal onslaught in Gaza is a "war against Hamas" and that it was only necessitated by the firing of Palestinian rockets on Israel.

This is a big lie. Read the following:

"Hamas had repeatedly said it was willing and ready to stop "all" firing of projectiles from Gaza if only Israel would lift the deadly blockade. And Israel repeatedly said "No."

Israel has been saying ad nauseam that it ended its occupation of Gaza. Well, why does Israel then retain its control of Gaza skies, Gaza shores, Gaza sea, Gaza border crossings (even with Egypt). Why does Israel retain its control of Gaza life? Why?

Hence, the issue of firing "rockets" on Israel (they are homemade projectiles that make more noise than damage), should be viewed largely as a red herring.

Effectively, Israel has been giving Palestinians in Gaza either of two choices, to die of starvation as a result of the blockade or be exterminated by the Israeli war machine.

Indeed, these so-called "rockets" are nothing more than a desperate outcry for justice, for lifting the deadly blockade. Gaza has simply been reduced to a modern-day Auschwitz. The only difference is that Jews are now playing the role of the SS.

Hamas did meticulously observe a six-month ceasefire, despite the persistence of the Nazi-like blockade which very much resembled the Ghetto Warsaw siege in 1942-43. However, Israel on 13 November, Israel carried out a foray into Gaza, killing 6 people.


More to the point, Israel killed 49 Palestinians during the ceasefire. Not a single Israeli was killed.

Besides, hundreds of Palestinians have perished because Israel would not allow them to access medical care or medicine. I saw many Palestinians die an agonizing death because the "light upon the nations" wouldn't allow them to reach hospital a few blocks away. In short, we are talking about a Judeo-Nazi state. I am saying this because when Jews think, behave and act like Nazis, they become Nazis. We must call the spade a spade, especially when it happens to be in the hands of our gravediggers.

Therefore, it is a big lie to call this war a war against Hamas. This is a Nazi-like war of extermination against the people of Palestine.

If the war were against Hamas, as the war criminals of Tel Aviv keep claiming, Israel wouldn't have targeted market places, drug stores, college buildings, private homes, mosques, cultural institutions, roads, businesses, etc.
Only a state with a Hitlerian mindset would target an entire society and then claim that it is fighting Hamas! It is simply a big lie.

So, Israel is simply carrying out a real genocide...and an indiscriminate one for that matter.

Today, even a Jewish rabbi of imminence used the term "genocide" to describe what Israel is doing in Gaza."

See also Amira Hass’s article in the Ha’aretz newspaper "Israel’s war is not against Hamas, it’s against all the Palestinians."

Tuesday night by the sea

Israeli-created crisis is either genocide or Holocaust Kriz Yonetimi

The Gaza Massacre: Are We Shocked Yet? out of the box

[Strype]

1) Isreal took their land after being attacked by these very people.

2) The notion that Isreal runs across the boarder, lobs rockets back at it's own people, and blames the terrorists is not even good enough to be called a conspiracy theory.

[T1 3VOM]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

"Hamas had repeatedly said it was willing and ready to stop "all" firing of projectiles from Gaza if only Israel would lift the deadly blockade. And Israel repeatedly said "No."

They've said that in the past, and Israel has backed off, and once they back off, the attacks start again.

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Israel has been saying ad nauseam that it ended its occupation of Gaza. Well, why does Israel then retain its control of Gaza skies, Gaza shores, Gaza sea, Gaza border crossings (even with Egypt). Why does Israel retain its control of Gaza life? Why?

It seems wise to me for Israel to maintain these controls for their own safety. The Palestinians and other nationalities in the area have proven to me over the past 60 years that their intent is nothing short of the anhilation of Israel.

[Strype]

Originally Posted by Liberal Interpretation to fit the arguement

Israel has been saying ad nauseam that it ended its occupation of Gaza. Well, why does Israel then retain its control of Gaza skies, Gaza shores, Gaza sea, Gaza border crossings (even with Egypt). Why does Israel retain its control of Gaza life? Why?

So by this account, when the Confederate States of America were oppressed they were well within their rights to seceed from the United States of America because the US gov't alredy had control over the southern seas, rivers, etc... ?????

[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Strype

1) Isreal took their land after being attacked by these very people.

Do you mean recently, or back in 1948? The recent Gaza raids Israel says Hamas fired crude rockets. Reports vary how many. Israel broke the cease fire November 5th with a raid that killed 6 Palestinians.
Maan News Agency

2) The notion that Isreal runs across the boarder, lobs rockets back at it's own people, and blames the terrorists is not even good enough to be called a conspiracy theory.

The Hamas rocket attacks didn't kill anyone. I've been looking for the link to this rumor. It stated that
the IDF, was capable of this to have a reason to attack, basically a small scale false flag op. Another story was that the IDF found a cache of weapons and rockets "ready to be used". But that got me to thinking about how the
PA, (Palestinian Authority) a rival to Hamas could do the same thing.
Hamas: PA conspiring with Israel | Israel | Jerusalem Post

Regardless the collective punishment of innocent people is being condemned by the UN.

[CENTENNIALSTANG]

Originally Posted by Strype

So by this account, when the Confederate States of America were oppressed they were well within their rights to seceed from the United States of America because the US gov't alredy had control over the southern seas, rivers, etc... ?????

Yes that was the whole point of the civil war. Now you are thinking anti big government.

Do States Have a Right of Secession? by Walter Williams -- Capitalism Magazine

Thomas Jefferson in his First Inaugural Address said, "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it." Fifteen years later, after the New England Federalists attempted to secede, Jefferson said, "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation ... to a continuance in the union .... I have no hesitation in saying, 'Let us separate.'"

At Virginia's ratification convention, the delegates said, "The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression." In Federalist Paper 39, James Madison, the father of the Constitution, cleared up what "the people" meant, saying the proposed Constitution would be subject to ratification by the people, "not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong." In a word, states were sovereign; the federal government was a creation, an agent, a servant of the states.

[CENTENNIALSTANG]

Israel has seized control over Hamases land (Gaza), that it’s self is an act of war. They dictate the EVIL TERRORIST lives and daily norms. Who wouldn’t want to fight that tyranny?

Like the above post clearly points out Israel is an aggressor. Most Americans don’t see it that way obviously.

[GT40XStang9]

[jikelly]

We should stay out of it the best we can. Humas needs to stop trying to be a rouge, and Israel needs to stop acting like they can do no wrong.

Posted via Mobile Device

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by jikelly

Israel needs to stop acting like they can do no wrong.

I'm interested in knowing what you meant by this. What, exactly, have they done that would lead you to this conclusion?

TIMELINE / Israeli-Hamas violence since truce ended - Haaretz - Israel News

[GT40XStang9]

Originally Posted by poboys 94

Do you mean recently, or back in 1948? ... Israel broke the cease fire November 5th with a raid that killed 6 Palestinians.
Maan News Agency

Doc's Talk: Significant erosion of the lull arrangement in the Gaza Strip

The events which threaten the lull arrangement and cast a question mark over its validity began on November 4. Following information about Hamas's preparations to abduct IDF soldiers through a tunnel, the IDF operated near the border.

.
.
.

Another event occurred on November 12, when the IDF killed four Hamas terrorist operatives who tried to lay an IED near the border security fence. The Palestinian terrorist organizations, led by Hamas, again fired dozens of rockets and mortar shells at western Negev population centers, including the town of Sderot and city of Ashqelon . The fire, in various quantities, continued uninterrupted for four days.

etc.