[degins]

I have finally succeeded in engineering and modeling a direct caliper bracket for connecting a SN95 aluminum dual piston caliper to a Granada spindle. It took 5 prototypes to tweak the design and production. Much of the design work involved selecting a suitable mating rotor. The best candidate, from a mounting geometry point of view, is the Granada rotor. I will be able to produce a dust shield as well. I found though that the Granada rotor's disc is too thin, in that it is not massive enough to take advantage of the capability of the caliper. This rotor is also too thin to properly retain the pads within the assembly when the rotor and pads are at their wear limits. One or both of the pads could be ejected from the bracket/calliper assembly.

I see no point in offering a product with these limitations and decided to design an appropriate rotor. This slotted 11.06" rotor will have an integral hub and a 1.025" thick vented disc. The new rotor's disc will be about 30% more massive than the 0.88" thick Granada one. I am in the process of maxinizing the design of the caliper as well.

I expect product availability this summer. Pics below.

[ultrastang]

Nice work, Dennis.

[rhyno9]

Have you thought about a granada spindle and a larger rotor 13 inch with cobra (PBR) calipers?

I would like to get bigger rotors however I have granada spindles and I haven't seen an available kit that will wirk with the granada spindle. Since my drum spindles are long gone I would have to find some 70+ drum spindles to get a large rotor kit to work.


Thanks
Ryan

[latamud]

Originally Posted by rhyno9

Have you thought about a granada spindle and a larger rotor 13 inch with cobra (PBR) calipers?

I would like to get bigger rotors however I have granada spindles and I haven't seen an available kit that will wirk with the granada spindle. Since my drum spindles are long gone I would have to find some 70+ drum spindles to get a large rotor kit to work.


Thanks
Ryan

I'm working on this but am away from home. In the meantime, Wilwood makes a kit for 12" and 13" rotors for a MustangII and Pinto Spindle but the brackets bolt on different than the Granada. Their 13" kit is around $1800. Maybe Dennis could whip up something? Would it be possible to cast a 13" Granada rotor and fab some SN95/Cobra brackets with correct spacing to clear the 13" rotors?

[degins]

Originally Posted by latamud

I'm working on this but am away from home. In the meantime, Wilwood makes a kit for 12" and 13" rotors for a MustangII and Pinto Spindle but the brackets bolt on different than the Granada. Their 13" kit is around $1800. Maybe Dennis could whip up something? Would it be possible to cast a 13" Granada rotor and fab some SN95/Cobra brackets with correct spacing to clear the 13" rotors?

Members of this and other enthusiast forums are a lot more performance oriented than the majority of classic Mustang owners. My main target market is those average owners. Their number allows me to produce and sell in fair quantity and keep cost down. There are already kits available that allow the mounting of big brake systems on Mustang and Granada spindles. I figure that the Granada/SN95 system as I describe it is an affordable middle ground that I can offer at a decent price.

[bnickel]

Originally Posted by degins

I have finally succeeded in engineering and modeling a direct caliper bracket for connecting a SN95 aluminum dual piston caliper to a Granada spindle. It took 5 prototypes to tweak the design and production. Much of the design work involved selecting a suitable mating rotor. The best candidate, from a mounting geometry point of view, is the Granada rotor. I will be able to produce a dust shield as well. I found though that the Granada rotor's disc is too thin, in that it is not massive enough to take advantage of the capability of the caliper. This rotor is also too thin to properly retain the pads within the assembly when the rotor and pads are at their wear limits. One or both of the pads could be ejected from the bracket/calliper assembly.

I see no point in offering a product with these limitations and decided to design an appropriate rotor. This slotted 11.06" rotor will have an integral hub and a 1.025" thick vented disc. The new rotor's disc will be about 30% more massive than the 0.88" thick Granada one. I am in the process of maxinizing the design of the caliper as well.

I expect product availability this summer. Pics below.

Dennis, why not just use a 70 mustang rotor? it's not quite as thick as the one you are talking about but very close and it's discard thickness is the same as the granada's new thickness. the 70 mustang rotor thickness is .94 when new and .88 at discard thickness. the granada and the 70 mustang use the same wheel bearings also so they'll work easily on the granada rotor.


edit: the 70 rotor will also work on the 68-69 spindle as well by changing the bearings and races. i recently discovered that i've had on 69 and one 70 rotor on my 69 stang since i had new rotors installed on it back in high school. i guess they had a hard time finding 2 69 rotors so they just swapped the bearings and races on the 70 rotor and used it instead. strange but true, i have no idea how i never noticed this in almost 25 years of ownership until now........

[degins]

Originally Posted by bnickel

Dennis, why not just use a 70 mustang rotor? it's not quite as thick as the one you are talking about but very close and it's discard thickness is the same as the granada's new thickness. the 70 mustang rotor thickness is .94 when new and .88 at discard thickness. the granada and the 70 mustang use the same wheel bearings also so they'll work easily on the granada rotor.


edit: the 70 rotor will also work on the 68-69 spindle as well by changing the bearings and races. i recently discovered that i've had on 69 and one 70 rotor on my 69 stang since i had new rotors installed on it back in high school. i guess they had a hard time finding 2 69 rotors so they just swapped the bearings and races on the 70 rotor and used it instead. strange but true, i have no idea how i never noticed this in almost 25 years of ownership until now........

The PBR caliper, pad, and bracket set are designed for a 1.024" thick rotor. Using the rotor I describe gives correct dynamics between the caliper, piston, and pad. This is very important when the pads and rotor reach their wear limits. The additional mass of my rotor is also increases fade resistance. In addition, the design allows me to modify current tooling so that I may offer a dust shield. It would not be feasibe for me to alter existing tooling with the 70-73 type.

[bnickel]

i don't think .030" is really all that big a deal, at least it wouldn't be to me anyway. also, i'm fairly certain that the dust shields are interchangeable between the 70-73 spindle and the granada spindle as well. not trying to yank your chain Dennis, just trying to offer easy alternatives.

BTW, did you get my email reply to the email you sent me a while back? i never heard back from you. i did request to be allowed to email you through your spam blocker thing but i never got a rply from that either

[degins]

Originally Posted by bnickel

i don't think .030" is really all that big a deal, at least it wouldn't be to me anyway. also, i'm fairly certain that the dust shields are interchangeable between the 70-73 spindle and the granada spindle as well. not trying to yank your chain Dennis, just trying to offer easy alternatives.

BTW, did you get my email reply to the email you sent me a while back? i never heard back from you. i did request to be allowed to email you through your spam blocker thing but i never got a rply from that either

I prefer the thicker more massive rotor for the reasons stated. As I said, the 70-73 shield is not feasible. Not feasible, in an engineering sense, does not mean impossible. It means that, all things considered, I have determined that it is not economically viable to alter the current design to accommodate the new caliper.

I did read the email, thanks. I read all of the email that my server puts into the suspect file. I think I added your address to my allowed list. I am still researching rear brake systems. I'm leaning toward a system based on SN95. I don't like the inner drum e-brake system used with the CV system. Too many parts.

[1995cobraR]

Originally Posted by degins

I figure that the Granada/SN95 system as I describe it is an affordable middle ground that I can offer at a decent price.

How much do you guess the price will be?

[degins]

Originally Posted by 1995cobraR

How much do you guess the price will be?

About $700 with spindles; all new parts.

[chanthemann]

Is there some reason a lincoln mark7 rotor won't work? It's 1.04 thk, 11" dia, and has the right size bearings. Or mabe even a better idea would be to use a drum hub with a hat style rotor and have many choices of cheap rotors.

[degins]

Fitting a rotor is not that simple. The rotor needs to have disc offset to match the caliper and to maximize caliper placement parameters. In any case, I have the rotors in hand and the brackets are in production. I'm finalizing the caliper source this week. The kit will be available soon.

[chockostang]

My Question to the General Public, the Mustang Public----WHY???

We have a very good Braking System in the Original FORD Design, stopped all the Shelbys, all the 428 cars, all the Boss cars, WHY CHANGE IT???

Adequate Stopping Power, Plentiful Parts supply (As these are Factory Brakes), Why in the World are we Wanting these Homemade parts??

The Homemade parts Market changes with the Decades, Parts Wear with the same time Factor.

Now, Place yourself 20 years from now, Were will the replacement parts come from??

The Supplier of these homemade Parts MIGHT be there to furnish new replacement parts. Might not be there, then What.??

But you can bet your butt, the Original Disc Brake Application ---FORD--for you Year/Model will be in Every Auto Parts store, and on Line.

Dan

Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

[rebel65]

way to be a dick dude

start your own f***ing thread instead of bashing someone just trying to get the word out about their product that has nothing to do with you or your opinions. want classic show correct car? great!! want original? all the more to ya. just don't tell me what to do with my car it's mine, not yours.

[bnickel]

Originally Posted by chockostang

My Question to the General Public, the Mustang Public----WHY???

We have a very good Braking System in the Original FORD Design, stopped all the Shelbys, all the 428 cars, all the Boss cars, WHY CHANGE IT???

Adequate Stopping Power, Plentiful Parts supply (As these are Factory Brakes), Why in the World are we Wanting these Homemade parts??

The Homemade parts Market changes with the Decades, Parts Wear with the same time Factor.

Now, Place yourself 20 years from now, Were will the replacement parts come from??

The Supplier of these homemade Parts MIGHT be there to furnish new replacement parts. Might not be there, then What.??

But you can bet your butt, the Original Disc Brake Application ---FORD--for you Year/Model will be in Every Auto Parts store, and on Line.

Dan

Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

because the original brakes suck compared to the brakes on modern cars and these classic cars need to be able to stop as well as modern cars.

[chris66dad]

I think Dennis has listened to the performance group and has come up with a very good option to marry a modern braking system to a classic Mustang for a reasonable price.

The CHOCKOSTANG- CSRP feud has been going on for awhile. I am not pointing fingers, just saying...

Good Luck and BE Safe
Ron

[1995cobraR]

Originally Posted by chockostang

My Question to the General Public, the Mustang Public----WHY???

Why do you capitalize some words within a sentence for no apparent reason?

I need better brakes because I race my car. I am sure other guys have their own reasons.

[tx65coupe]

That sounds cool. I would possibly be interested in upgrading my brakes later on. I currenly have Granada brakes. I am not interested in having to upgrade to 17 inch wheels though. Will this work with 15 inch wheels? Will they offer better stopping power than the Granada components I have now?

[ultrastang]

If you have a '75-'80 Granada front disc brake setup on your vintage Mustang, or if you have stock '68-'73 front disc brakes and you are looking to upgrade to 13" Cobra rotors with twin-piston PBR calipers, then these are the brackets you would need for this conversion:

[ForceFed70]

Originally Posted by rhyno9

Have you thought about a granada spindle and a larger rotor 13 inch with cobra (PBR) calipers?

I would like to get bigger rotors however I have granada spindles and I haven't seen an available kit that will wirk with the granada spindle. Since my drum spindles are long gone I would have to find some 70+ drum spindles to get a large rotor kit to work.


Thanks
Ryan

Look for a kit designed to convert a stock disk brake classic stang to sn95 cobra brakes. Every kit I've seen says "Also works with Granada spindles except you have to drill out a mounting hole to a larger size" which is really easy to do.

[ultrastang]

Originally Posted by chockostang

My Question to the General Public, the Mustang Public----WHY???

We have a very good Braking System in the Original FORD Design, stopped all the Shelbys, all the 428 cars, all the Boss cars, WHY CHANGE IT???

Depending on your year model Mustang, you are looking at vehicles that are 30 something-40 something years old now. At the time these vehicles were built, they were on par with the stopping ability of all the other auto manufacuter's cars that were on the road at that time too. We move forward now to over 40 years later and vehicles of today stop in much shorter distances than what these Mustangs did back in the day. If, for example, you are traveling along on an interstate at 70 or 80 MPH and the traffic suddenly makes a dramatic reduction in speed, you are going to be in trouble if everyone else's car has the ability to slow down quicker than you can, and especially if this cycle happens frequently or repeatedly.

Adequate Stopping Power, Plentiful Parts supply (As these are Factory Brakes), Why in the World are we Wanting these Homemade parts??

Most people who are into modifying their Mustangs aren't interested in "Adequate". They are interested in making the systems [such as brakes] much better than what they were to start with, with an increased safety factor margin, over stock, to boot.

The Homemade parts Market changes with the Decades, Parts Wear with the same time Factor.

The only thing "Homemade" in the brake system conversions is the means to adapt the brake components [the adapter brackets]. --Which to that end, the "homade parts" of most of the brackets produced I know of are actually either CNC, laser or water-jet produced components by competent, professional machine shops.

The brake components, i.e.; rotors and calipers [produced by Ford], remain unmodified and there's really nothing on the adapter brackets to wear out --the brake components themselves are another story. I've heard of factory-produced rotor failures, caliper failures, and hose failures, but I've never heard of anyone's adaptive ["homemade"] brackets failing. --and if they had, you can rest assured that it would be all over the forums/internet by now if it did happen.

Now, Place yourself 20 years from now, Were will the replacement parts come from??

It's well past 20 years since the last vintage Mustang brake parts were produced by Ford, however Ford themselves hasn't sold their own brake replacement parts for these cars in many years now. The only place you can get them is through auto parts stores or Mustang parts suppliers. The Fox/SN95 Mustangs/Cobras are very popular cars and already there are manufacturers reproducing parts for those models, so I don't suspect there will be any more problem getting SN95/Cobra brake parts in the future than you would find trying to get 30-40 something year old Mustang brake parts like you can right now.

The Supplier of these homemade Parts MIGHT be there to furnish new replacement parts. Might not be there, then What.??

Again, the brake components are the same factory parts that were put on the SN95 GTs or Cobras. The only thing that is different is the adaptive means --and as stated, I haven't yet seen a failure of an adapter bracket --front or rear.

But you can bet your butt, the Original Disc Brake Application ---FORD--for you Year/Model will be in Every Auto Parts store, and on Line.

Actually, if I needed a stock rotor or caliper for my '68 Mustang, I would have to order it from my local O'Reilly parts store and wait 1-5 days for it to arrive, because it would not be a stocked item [too old, low demand part]. If I needed a Cobra rotor or caliper though, there's a good chance it would be on the parts shelf at the time I needed it right then.

We're approaching nearly 9 years now that my partner [Glen Buzek] & I have been offering "homemade" disc brake conversion brackets to Mustang & related Ford owners. In that time, I can honestly say that our customer's complaints of our brackets, and their performance, totals a whopping Zero percentage rate of complaints. This can only tell me that something doesn't have to come from an automotive factory to be of a sound engineering design. My conversion brackets have run on everything from Mustangs, Cougars, Falcons, Fairlanes, street rods, etc., to all out balls-to-the-wall race cars and with zero failures. Private individuals outside of Ford, GM or Chrysler can produce proven, "homemade", components that can [and do] perform without problem or flaw.

Dan

Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

.

[1995cobraR]

ultrastang,

Thanks for the tech. It's obvious that chockostang may have a poor understanding of this subject.

I'd like some more tech on the Granada spindle. Why is it so much better than the 1970 Boss 302 spindle?

Here is my '70 big bearing spindle with Lincoln brakes, stock suspension (required by vintage racing rules), big cooling ducts, and a few other tricks:

[chockostang]

I just voiced my opinion, We all Have this, the option to express.

I stand by that, Stock is better.

Seem there is a hostile enviroment toward Stock.

And Yes, I will express this when I see Someone PIMPING there Parts---Does that right a BELL dENNIS??

Dan

]Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering[/url]

[bnickel]

Originally Posted by chockostang

I just voiced my opinion, We all Have this, the option to express.

I stand by that, Stock is better.

Seem there is a hostile enviroment toward Stock.

And Yes, I will express this when I see Someone PIMPING there Parts---Does that right a BELL dENNIS??

Dan

Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

stock parts are great on a stock restored car or vintage racer, but there are a lot of restomod guys on here who think stock is for the birds, i'm kind of in between. i like my cars to look pretty much bone stock except maybe wheels and tires, etc. my current mustang is pretty stock everywhere except for wheels and tires and a slightly hopped up 351, yes, even the brakes.....for now. my 69 cougar is going to be a period restomod/80's cafe racer or canyon carver with big, wide 15" wheels and tires, fox body GT seats, cobra II steering wheel, very built 351 with aluminum heads, long rods, forged pistons, big hydraulic roller cam, aluminum heads, etc. and big 12" lincoln brakes with billet aluminum replacement calipers, slotted and zinc washed rotors, rear disc or big rear drum brakes, a vintage hone-o-drive overdrive unit, TCP rack or Borgeson power steering gear box, TCP G-Bar rear suspenion and a custom Opentracker Racing front suspension. the car will look relatively stock from the outside though, other than the wheels and tires anyway, but will actually be far from stock.

the point is that everyone has their own vision of what they want their car to be, for some it's stock and for others it isn't. then again, some people like it both ways and have one (or more) of each.....