[poboys 94]

Originally Posted by Ike83

See, THIS is why I'm done with this converation. Poboys, you made the statement that the there is NO evidence of Hamas using children as human shields. THAT was false statement.
We weren't talking about Israel, we were talking about HAMAS! I find it interesting that as soon as I point out the fact that your statement is historically INCORRECT...you change the subject. If that's how we're going to debate, then the debate will never get us anywhere.

As long as this discussion causes us to look at the situation with an open mind, then it is a successful one IMO.

I've already showed you that it was the Arabs who first attacked the Jews in the 1920s, and it was the ARABS who were aligned with the Nazis in WW2. I'm not saying that Israel is a perfect nation, led by perfect people, who have NEVER made any mistakes over the course of their history.

"The question of Palestine was brought before the United Nations shortly after the end of the Second World War.

The origins of the Palestine problem as an international issue, however, lie in events occurring towards the end of the First World War. These events led to a League of Nations decision to place Palestine under the administration of Great Britain as the Mandatory Power under the Mandates System adopted by the League. In principle, the Mandate was meant to be in the nature of a transitory phase until Palestine attained the status of a fully independent nation, a status provisionally recognized in the League's Covenant, but in fact the Mandate's historical evolution did not result in the emergence of Palestine as an independent nation.

The decision on the Mandate did not take into account the wishes of the people of Palestine, despite the Covenant's requirements that "the wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory". This assumed special significance because, almost five years before receiving the mandate from the League of Nations, the British Government had given commitments to the Zionist Organization regarding the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, for which Zionist leaders had pressed a claim of "historical connection" since their ancestors had lived in Palestine two thousand years earlier before dispersing in the "Diaspora".
The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem: 1917-1988 - CEIRPP, DPR study, part I: 1917-1947 - DPR publication (30 June 1990)

All I'm saying, is that Israel is NOT the aggressor in the Middle East, and Israel is NOT the country who fired 100 rockets into their enemies' homeland during the cease-fire. The land the Palestinians live in, does NOT originally belong to the them, which is one of the arguments that you've made several times. In fact, if anything, it belonged to Romans before that, Israel before THAT, and the Canaanites even further back in time.

Israel hadn't even abided by the terms of the ceasefire, they continued to restrict much needed humanitarian imports.
I can't believe you still refuse to acknowledge Israel as an agressor and the Protocols of Zion's plan for Palestine
Maybe you could visit this site, it is the most informative I have found so far and could explain many questions you ask.
United Nations: The Origins And Evolution Of The Palestine Problem, 1917-1947
Go to the FAQ by Zionist, and Palestinians.

... but also freakishly disturbing in the sense that a person has devoted so much time and energy defending people who are actually sending their OWN CHILDREN ON SUICIDE BOMBING MISSIONS!

If this remark were written the other way around to describe Jewish or Israeli parents, it would be one of the most anti-Semitic statements ever. Knowingly, or unknowingly, such statements attempt to demonize the Palestinian people, to make them a legitimate target, very much like animal hunting.
For the moment, let's assume that this racist statement is true, and Palestinian parents send their boys to demonstrate and throw stones at the Israeli Occupation Force (IOF): Is that a good reason to shoot unarmed Palestinian kids?
Let's ask the question the other way around, and assume that Israeli or Jewish kids demonstrated against British or Nazi occupation (which actually happened during WWII in Warsaw and Tel Aviv prior to the 1948 war): Is that a good reason to kill unarmed Jewish kids?
It's amusing that the apartheid regime in South Africa used such racist statements to justify the high rate of causalities among African school boys, especially during the famous African student uprisings in the mid 70s and 80s. Instead of opening criminal investigations to explain why kids are being shot at such a high rate (as often done in democratic societies), most Israelis and Zionists point their fingers toward the dead victims and say: "It's your fault; it's your parents fault". Instead of questioning the soldiers who pull the trigger, the Israelis are questioning the dead Palestinian boys, or their families.
" As a Palestinian, I would like to inform many misinformed Israelis that Palestinians love their kids as much as Israeli Jews love their kids, and many do their best to keep their kids out of harms way. Based on personal experience, my parents used to use their best efforts to keep me from of demonstrating against the IOF. Continually, my parents used to inspect my clothes for the smell of burned tires, inspect my hands for stone residue, and to personally pick me up from school just to make sure I didn't demonstrate against the IOF.
I used to go out of my way to participate in resisting and organizing activities against the Israeli Occupation, which was done without my parents' prior consent. Yes, it was done by a teenage boy who hated the Israeli Occupation so much; I was a young boy who thought that he would live forever. My story is similar to Faris Odeh's story.

Soon after this photo was taken, my hero was killed (not far from where that picture was taken) because he threw stones at Israeli Occupation soldiers. It should be noted that Faris' parents went out of their way to keep their kids from demonstrating against the Israeli occupation. It's very sad that Faris was murdered, and his murderer is getting a free hand to perpetrate similar war crimes against other stone-throwing Palestinian boys. To give the reader a first hand eyewitness account of such encounters with the Israeli army, Ha'aretz Daily (a major Israeli newspapers) has published an article describing how Israeli soldiers fired live bullets on unarmed Palestinian kids.
Envoys say they saw IDF fire at children By Ha'aretz Daily
By Amira Hass

A group of Western diplomats traveling from Jerusalem to Ramallah claim they saw Israeli troops near Jerusalem firing live ammunition at a group of children throwing stones, even though the children were too far to pose a risk to the soldiers.

The diplomats say that shots were fired even though a long line of civilian cars were traveling past the children at the time. They also think that one of the children was injured, because shortly after the shooting, the group of children gathered around one youngster. Sources in Qalandia, however, say that they have no reports of anyone being injured that day.
The diplomatic convoy was slowed near Qalandia refugee camp by an IDF roadblock set up a couple of hundred meters from the entrance to the camp. One of the diplomats told Ha'aretz that the children hid behind garbage containers and threw stones at an IDF lookout, at the edge of the nearby Atarot airfield. He says the soldiers were well protected in their high post, but in any case one of the soldiers shot at the children. The diplomats believe that live fire was used.
The diplomat, says that he saw a second soldier in the observation tower clapping and raising his hands as if in victory after his colleague fired at the children.

I can not partake in this conversation with you any longer. Sorry. :shrug

You post something, I look it up and find counter statements and
reason for doubting the official Israeli line, and vice versa.
You stubbornly refuse to conceive the possibility that Israel is WRONG. In my case I admit that this is an ongoing learning endeavor about the situation, I sympathize with the lose of life on both sides, I'm just trying to get through the and take everything in from what we discuss, and by the trading of links and looking things up etc.. There is no reason to get upset about it, as long as we keep everything cool, and be respectful to everyone while we search and discover new things. Sometimes it's the stubborn refusal to do this that keeps problems and conflicts like the one being discussed, from being resolved
Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948-*פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة