[The_Mustang]

I've been in limbo for awhile now as to which way to go, 302 or 351. I decided to go with a 351 because I like the increased strength of the block and it just sounds cool when you tell people "it's gotta 351W mang!"

So, not having alot of cash at my disposal, I'm gonna have to do this on the cheap. I'll demonstrate how to do it inexpensively while still being a reliable ride. Is it the "correct" way to do it? Most would say no, however, "correct" has alot of different meanings to different people, so if it works and runs, and it makes you happy, then it is "correct" as far as I'm concerned.

Here's the parts I plan to run with part numbers so you don't have to run to a hundred sites getting info, and most of this you can get from summitracing.com:

Oil pan kit w/pickup: M-6675-A58
Oil pump driveshaft: M-6605-A341
Crank Spacer: M-8510-B351 (not sure if this is necessary, the balancer I pulled from my 94 F150 engine looks exactly the same as my old balancer from my 302, i'll confirm this during the build, but I think it'll work)

Flywheel: supposedly a flywheel from a pre 80's stang will work, we'll see. Again, I wonder why a 5 speed F150 flywheel won't work.

I'm going with the satin finish Typhoon 5.8 intake manifold. I'd get polished, but the satin is cheaper and I do polishing for a living, so I can make it look 10 times better anyway.

Not sure on which cam to get yet, I have to find out if there's any PTV clearance issues with the TFS stage 2. I'm also going to run a set of TFS springs to go with the cam.

I'm going to use my BBK 302 headers and modify the H pipe to reach the headers on the 351.

Here's a couple pics of what I'm working with. This 351W came out of a 1994 F150, it has F4 stamped on it, which makes it a hydraulic roller lifter engine. It is really filthy right now, but I'll clean it up and paint it when I get it stripped down.

[donkey_punch]

while you strip it down, during what ever free time you have, check the classified ads on all the stang sites. you might just come across what you need, or even better parts that you thought were not in budget. people start builds and can't complete them for one reason or another and sell what parts they already bought. so you might get lucky, u just have to look.

good luck
joe

[Pokageek]

Subscribing. Why is it all rusted looking tho?

[The_Mustang]

I guess because it's been out of the truck for a little while. I found no water sitting inside the intake ports so it didn't take on any water that I can see. It spins nice and easy so it's not locked up or anything. I'll see everything once the heads come off. Can I reuse the head bolts? I think I hear you can use them up to 3 times before they lose their torque ability, is that correct?

[sn-95matt5-0]

lol i posted on the other thread before i saw this one. so just disregard what i said cause i see you already have it covered.

man i see some future potential wish. i could have found a roller block there wasnt any around my area.keep the pics coming.

[BlackVert]

awesome. i always thought if i were going to do it again, i'd do it the way you are doing it: get the 351 in there as inexpensively as possible, dealing wth all the fitment issues first, then drive it while saving up and collecting parts for the build up.

it looks like the 351 came with an intake ... can you reuse it and save the money for the typhoon?

i'm pretty sure my 351 (an early 70s block) has a 28oz balancer, not a 50oz one. our 302s have 50oz balancers, don't they? did they go from 28 to 50 for the 351s at some point?

to save more money, what about using the heads that are on there today and leave it alone?

[The_Mustang]

That truck intake is def. not going to work. I'll be ordering the Typhoon intake today from Blue Oval Industries, they seem to have them really cheap (329.00) for the satin.

No, the balancer is still a 28 oz balancer, what I meant was it has all the same dimensions as my 5.0 one does. I'm just going to trade mine in at the parts store for a 94 F150 replacement. I got a good friend that works at the parts store and he'll swap it out for me.

[donkey_punch]

dude have you looked through the classifieds on the other site? last night i came across a 351 spyder intake that had the injector bosses open already. it didn't have the elbow or hardware, iirc it was less than what you are going to pay for the typhoon. there were also other thread were people jumped on like the 351 swap headers, etc...

[The_Mustang]

I don't even bother trying to get those rare parts on classifieds. Seems everytime I try I get beat out by someone else. I just ordered up the typhoon, will be here wednsday. I may try to open up the lower intake as much as I can and maybe give a shot at porting the upper some as well.

[donkey_punch]

Originally Posted by The_Mustang

I don't even bother trying to get those rare parts on classifieds. Seems everytime I try I get beat out by someone else. I just ordered up the typhoon, will be here wednsday. I may try to open up the lower intake as much as I can and maybe give a shot at porting the upper some as well.

i have a typhoon that i'm hoping to port today or tomorrow. you will need to spend some time on the ports to get it up to par. the worse is i'm dealing with a used one, and the previous owner looked like he had his hands on it. i think he would of been better off leaving it alone.

[S351Saleen77]

A guy local to me is selling Hooker shorty swap headers new for $100. He mocked them up and dented one tube to make it fit right....then never used them.

Not sure how much to ship them? He works at a local shop where I'm going next week....If you want them I can pick them up then we can figure out how much to ship and I can send them to you.

He is also selling I think BBK long tubes. He also has some billet fuel rails for $100 that are new.

Let me know if you are interested.
Tom

[S351Saleen77]

Here's a link to 5.0 on doing the swap....also has part #'s for the brackets etc.

Saleen put 351's in starting in 1994...the Cobra R was 1995....not sure if Ford had these brackets for sale in 1994, so I'm wondering what Saleen used? Everything looks stock....?

What I do know is they used Foxbody convertible motor mounts and cut them somehow to lower the engine. They also notched the K member for the motor mount hole and moved the engine back and down, this allowed the use of the stock hood.


351 Engine Swap - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

[The_Mustang]

Yes, I've read that article about 1000 times since I first got the issue it was in years ago! The brackets on the R and Saleens are the same as 94/95 GT's and Cobras. Saleen continued using the same brackets through the last year supposedly.

Question for you: Is your battery in the engine bay or trunk? Reason I ask is I want to keep my A/C, but it will interfere with the battery/tray I hear.

[Adam95GT]

Originally Posted by The_Mustang

Yes, I've read that article about 1000 times since I first got the issue it was in years ago! The brackets on the R and Saleens are the same as 94/95 GT's and Cobras. Saleen continued using the same brackets through the last year supposedly.

Question for you: Is your battery in the engine bay or trunk? Reason I ask is I want to keep my A/C, but it will interfere with the battery/tray I hear.

Just move it to the trunk... i just picked up my battery kit off someone for $50 shipped... you can probably find one just as cheap if not cheaper...

Good luck on your build... this is what i should of done.... instead at the time my car was a daily driver.... so a 306 fit... now ill need a blower.... or bottle..... or something soon....

[S351Saleen77]

Originally Posted by The_Mustang

Yes, I've read that article about 1000 times since I first got the issue it was in years ago! The brackets on the R and Saleens are the same as 94/95 GT's and Cobras. Saleen continued using the same brackets through the last year supposedly.

Question for you: Is your battery in the engine bay or trunk? Reason I ask is I want to keep my A/C, but it will interfere with the battery/tray I hear.

Battery in the stock location. You just notch the stock plastic tray.

I will try to get a pic tomorrow of the tray so you can see what they did. It's a piece of cake!

[Pokageek]

Originally Posted by BlackVert

awesome. i always thought if i were going to do it again, i'd do it the way you are doing it: get the 351 in there as inexpensively as possible, dealing wth all the fitment issues first, then drive it while saving up and collecting parts for the build up.

it looks like the 351 came with an intake ... can you reuse it and save the money for the typhoon?

i'm pretty sure my 351 (an early 70s block) has a 28oz balancer, not a 50oz one. our 302s have 50oz balancers, don't they? did they go from 28 to 50 for the 351s at some point?

to save more money, what about using the heads that are on there today and leave it alone?

Yep. The 351 will give it tons of tq and plenty of HP. To get to the power level Chris and I got to was like a frog in the fry'n pan. It costs ALOT of money and the parts have to match..putting one part on dont make much difference without the other matching parts. I could see doing it your way too.

[BlackVert]

Originally Posted by Pokageek

Yep. The 351 will give it tons of tq and plenty of HP. To get to the power level Chris and I got to was like a frog in the fry'n pan. It costs ALOT of money and the parts have to match..putting one part on dont make much difference without the other matching parts. I could see doing it your way too.

heh ... the level that you and i got ... as if i were at your level. with the $$$ i spent, you would think i was, but i'm not; my intake is holding the motor back for sure.

but that's the kicker ... i'm OK with where i am right now and that is really all that matters.

[Adam95GT]

both of your cars are sick (keith and chris) i could only hope my car will turn out half as nice.... i need more cubes.... but dont have the cash....

[The_Mustang]

Originally Posted by BlackVert

heh ... the level that you and i got ... as if i were at your level. with the $$$ i spent, you would think i was, but i'm not; my intake is holding the motor back for sure.

but that's the kicker ... i'm OK with where i am right now and that is really all that matters.

How does your car feel when you punch it? Does it fall right off after a certain rpm?

And I need to know what cam to go with for now. Will a TFS Stage 2 cam have any clearance issues? If not, I'll go with that one along with the spring kit from TFS.

[The_Mustang]

Originally Posted by BlackVert

to save more money, what about using the heads that are on there today and leave it alone?

Does anyone know about the stock heads on these late model 351's? Won't the GT40's flow better? If so, is it enough to justify swapping them onto this motor? I plan to port the crap out of the GT40's the best I can.

And I do plan to take this thing to a dyno day somewhere to see what it'll do.

[BlackVert]

Originally Posted by The_Mustang

How does your car feel when you punch it? Does it fall right off after a certain rpm?

And I need to know what cam to go with for now. Will a TFS Stage 2 cam have any clearance issues? If not, I'll go with that one along with the spring kit from TFS.

my car spins the tires really easily and goes like a bat out of hell when i punch it. but i still haven't wound it out past 4000 rpm, mostly because it shifts and then it gets going so damn fast that i let out. it is an automatic with 3.27 gears.

and sorry, i don't know about the clearance on the TFS 2. what's the lift?

Originally Posted by The_Mustang

Does anyone know about the stock heads on these late model 351's? Won't the GT40's flow better? If so, is it enough to justify swapping them onto this motor? I plan to port the crap out of the GT40's the best I can.

And I do plan to take this thing to a dyno day somewhere to see what it'll do.

it might have the same E7s ours have stock. you could probably get the part number off them. obviously it's your choice, but i think i'd just leave the ones on it alone and focus on the other stuff. you can swap the heads in the car later if you want, but that's just my o

[The_Mustang]

Well, swapping heads will be alot easier on the stand, so I'll probably just tackle it before I put the motor in.

Here's the lift on the TFS stage 2:
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.542 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.563 in.
other info
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 232
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./232 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 286
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 294

Will a 112* LSA be ok with a 94/95 computer?

[95Vert383AOD]

Awesome looks exactly like what i was looking at 2 years ago when i started my build.

As a side note I personally kept the 351 timing cover and water pump style. They are what was used on the pre 94 mustangs. I plan on putting the truck brackets on my 383 soon for 2 reasons.

1. They use the 3 Bolt Alternator that you can find 250 to 300 amp ambulance versions of.

2. The 94/95 A/C Bolts right up.

Only drawback is that now your pulleys may interfere with your electric fan. What i did was got a 3 pound mallet and "massaged" the inside of the radiator support to push the top of the radiator forwards.

Also since i don't have the brackets set so wide and pushed back like in the 94/95 cars it makes changing things like spark plugs a breeze.

Subscribing to see how this turns out

Chris

[The_Mustang]

I also need exactly how to modify the fuel rails. Where to cut, what to use to extend the hose.

[95Vert383AOD]

You could either modify your 5.8 rails or cut the crossover hose and clamp 3/8" line to it.