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10-05-09, 02:40 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: June 2009 Location: Kearneysville, WV
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Originally Posted by MeanMike  I did'nt know they did that, I have'nt ever had it happen. What I have had happen is they almost alway's ask for a deposit, and I alway's reply with, why would I put a deposit on a car that I have'nt even driven. | Wait until you try to take out an STi. I scheduled a test drive and when I got to the dealership which was 20 miles away, my test drive was sitting on the showroom floor. All the salesman wanted to do was talk it up and tell me how great it was. I drove 20 miles for someone to sit there and "pat my a$$" over a car that looks like a bad night of lovin' between a street-side mailbox and a shopping cart.
I went to another dealership, where I ended up buying, but wasn't happy about it. They didn't want to give me a test drive there, either. "You can drive it around the parking lot."  I said, "Okay!"
As soon as we got into the car, I took off out of the parking lot, and on to the highway. I zinged the car up one side, and down the other, and then back into the lot. I told the saleswoman, "I'll take it...but not this one."
After the test drive, I reamed her a new one, too. I told her, "I'm a 31 year old adult. I'm not some punk kid here to take your cars out and beat on them. It was quite presumptuous of you to think I was going to fork over $31,000 and take my test drive on the way home. It would be wise in the future not to insult your customers. Someone who's not as nice as I am would complain to the sales manager."
Anyway, Mike, don't EVER give them info to run your credit until the deal is done, and it's "financing time."  |
10-05-09, 02:40 PM
| | Founding Member | | Join Date: April 2002 Location: Texas
Posts: 535
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3 free hits a year without effecting your score. Each one after that drops it 1 point, and you get those back after the fiscal year. Not a big deal if you have a great credit score and don't shop for cars often.
I had a chance to go sit in a new camaro this weekend at a dealer lot while looking at another car and I have to agree with everyone on the interior. It was rather disappointing. It didn't look too bad from pictures on the web, but in person, just looked too cheap.
I also drove a 04 Z06, and I'm starting to consider my options. The interiors on those are a little lacking too, but damn those mothers are fast. I'm considering getting rid of my classic and Jeep for it. |
10-05-09, 06:55 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: June 2009 Location: Kearneysville, WV
Posts: 341
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Originally Posted by Justin01 3 free hits a year without effecting your score. Each one after that drops it 1 point, and you get those back after the fiscal year. Not a big deal if you have a great credit score and don't shop for cars often.
I had a chance to go sit in a new camaro this weekend at a dealer lot while looking at another car and I have to agree with everyone on the interior. It was rather disappointing. It didn't look too bad from pictures on the web, but in person, just looked too cheap.
I also drove a 04 Z06, and I'm starting to consider my options. The interiors on those are a little lacking too, but damn those mothers are fast. I'm considering getting rid of my classic and Jeep for it. | Well, 405 hp and 32xx lbs isn't anything to sneeze at.  |
10-05-09, 08:43 PM
|  | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Originally Posted by Top Speed Ford won't run the Mustang GT on the Nurburgring because they're scared of Hyundai? 
So, you've heard the 370Z has overheating issues. I haven't heard any such thing, and I've been "researching" the 370Z since sitting in one on Saturday. Where did you "hear" this?
Do you think anyone would really buy a $71,000 370Z? I sure don't. Isn't it possible that this "$71,000 370Z" is going to be some type of "development mule?" Nissan has just released the Nismo 370Z, a $40,000 car, and people are "crying foul." What are they going to call this one, the "Super-Nismo?" | Actually, Ford wont run the GT because it cant finish a lap on any course....with a power boost...Suspension upgrades and gearing..Ford forgot one crucial thing....BRAKES.. Ford has received huge critism for its brakes on the Mustang GT...... 2 turns and the GTs in the grass because of total Brake Fade.. I mean comeon..12.6 Disks in the front with 11.8 in the rear with 1 piston calipers !!!
The shelby with its 14 in fronts and YES 11.8 in the rear has brake fade issues...It just seems so obvious for Ford to have upgraded the brakes.
I try not to say to much but every time I hear ....well the Camaros fast but once you hit a corner the Mustang will leave it...HA...it may have a good suspension...and pull a .92 G but it cant hold up to the severe abuse of a true road course. Luckily the 2011 supposedly addresses this issue...
To be honest...and this is for Topspeed...if you truly want a road course car... then I would go with the 370 Z, as far as the Overheating...that came from a 370 forum, and it was all heresay, I cant confirm it. I mean your talking about purchasing a Mustang, pulling the rear seats out, roushcharging it, Tuning it, you'll have to upgrade the brakes..and then youll find your self spending 11-12k...I mean really. Why not buy a car that has good power, great handling,and weighs 200lbs less than the mustang. You say your a corner driver......then I would assume you make the obvious choice of a corner perfected car. Just my opinion, I know you like the mustang, and so do I..but if your serious about road racing, then you should pick the best out of the litter..and will cost you less in the long run.
As far as the Nurburgring 370Z...I HAVE NO IDEA why they would build such a car lol...but its in the works.... |
10-05-09, 08:57 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: June 2009 Location: Kearneysville, WV
Posts: 341
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Originally Posted by SS02 Actually, Ford wont run the GT because it cant finish a lap on any course....with a power boost...Suspension upgrades and gearing..Ford forgot one crucial thing....BRAKES.. Ford has received huge critism for its brakes on the Mustang GT...... 2 turns and the GTs in the grass because of total Brake Fade.. I mean comeon..12.6 Disks in the front with 11.8 in the rear with 1 piston calipers !!!
The shelby with its 14 in fronts and YES 11.8 in the rear has brake fade issues...It just seems so obvious for Ford to have upgraded the brakes.
I try not to say to much but every time I hear ....well the Camaros fast but once you hit a corner the Mustang will leave it...HA...it may have a good suspension...and pull a .92 G but it cant hold up to the severe abuse of a true road course. Luckily the 2011 supposedly addresses this issue...
To be honest...and this is for Topspeed...if you truly want a road course car... then I would go with the 370 Z, as far as the Overheating...that came from a 370 forum, and it was all heresay, I cant confirm it. I mean your talking about purchasing a Mustang, pulling the rear seats out, roushcharging it, Tuning it, you'll have to upgrade the brakes..and then youll find your self spending 11-12k...I mean really. Why not buy a car that has good power, great handling,and weighs 200lbs less than the mustang. You say your a corner driver......then I would assume you make the obvious choice of a corner perfected car. Just my opinion, I know you like the mustang, and so do I..but if your serious about road racing, then you should pick the best out of the litter..and will cost you less in the long run.
As far as the Nurburgring 370Z...I HAVE NO IDEA why they would build such a car lol...but its in the works.... | Ford has addressed braking issues with the Track Pack. I believe the Track Pack provides 14 inch rotors in the front and 12 inch rotors out back.
As for your opinion/suggestion on which car would be more suited to me, I regretfully have to admit that when I took out a 370Z today, my mind was pretty made up. I love the 2010 Mustang. It's not only an awesome car to look at, but it's an awesome car to drive, but given what I'm looking to get out of it, I have concluded that maybe it isn't the best choice for what I'm looking for.
Since driving the Z, I've pretty much fallen in love with it. It looks great, and the handling is amazing. The car is also pretty quick; easily capable of the mid-13s that magazines are claiming.
Overall, I think in the end, I'd be happier with the Z, because I just connected with it on a deeper level. In all honesty, I was really hoping to dislike it, given the level of enthusiasm I have for the 2010 Mustangs.
Well, I'll have plenty of time to contemplate and sleep on my decisions before buying anything, but regardless which I choose, I'll still be visiting Stangnet. I dig this forum and enjoy conversing with the people here (even you, SS02.... ), even if some of us don't always see eye to eye.
Last edited by Top Speed; 10-05-09 at 09:32 PM.
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10-05-09, 08:59 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
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Originally Posted by Top Speed Ok, I did find some info on times set at the Nurburgring, and the 2003 350Z, which had 28x hp ran it in 8:26 to the Camaro SS's 8:22. Funny how the Camaro has 140x more hp, yet only managed to beat the 350Z by 4 seconds around the 'Ring. Now that the Z has 50 more hp and has lost 100 lbs of weight, plus has been shortened and widened, it won't even be close. | Actually the Camaro has a best time of 8:20 around the "Ring"....and comeon...you do know how far 6 seconds is dont you....pretty good distance, and not to mention a huge weight disadvantage for the Camaro, yet it still placed right in the middle of the pack in cars around the nurburgring.
The cadilliac CTS-V just hit under 8 minutes WOW...which is crazy impressive...also
The new Bmw M3 has rumored to hit 8:15 Range around the Ring....which puts the new 2011 Mustang with Track Pak....also assuming it comes with super sticky tires it ran on during testing....around that same time..... |
10-05-09, 10:49 PM
| | Member | | Join Date: September 2009
Posts: 14
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Topspeed:
The advice SS gave you about the 370 is probably good advice. After thinking about it, and if money isn't an issue, that's probably what I would go with, too.
Now, about cars in general. I've driven more cars down the 1/4 mile through the years than I care to mention. I've driven slow ones, some fast ones, and everything in between.
We all get caught up in the numbers on 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times, but the thing is, that's just for internet bragging rights.
Honest to god....I've driven the same car down the track and run a 14.1 at 100 mph and turned right around and driven the same car at 13.5 at 105. And I swear to you, if I didn't have a time slip, I wouldn't have known which run was the fastest.
We are splitting hairs with all this tenth of a second differences. You just can't feel it when you are driving a car...it's just not that big of deal. Think about it...a half second...it looks big when you are racing down the track next to someone, but on your a$$ dyno, you can't tell it.
If you want a car, get something that is quick enough for you, but is fun to drive. That's the key...fun to drive. Find something you like, get a nice looking interior with the options you want, but more than anything else, make it fun to drive.
We all want to think we can race a car on a road course, but in all honesty, we'd pretty much suck at it when compared to the real pro's, and we can't pull nearly the capabilities of what the car really has in it.
The numbers are fun to look at and make some comparisons with, but good gawd, don't let a split second decide what car you are going to buy. Just buy the all around car that you like the best. |
10-05-09, 11:01 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
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Originally Posted by verbwiser Topspeed:
The advice SS gave you about the 370 is probably good advice. After thinking about it, and if money isn't an issue, that's probably what I would go with, too.
Now, about cars in general. I've driven more cars down the 1/4 mile through the years than I care to mention. I've driven slow ones, some fast ones, and everything in between.
We all get caught up in the numbers on 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times, but the thing is, that's just for internet bragging rights.
Honest to god....I've driven the same car down the track and run a 14.1 at 100 mph and turned right around and driven the same car at 13.5 at 105. And I swear to you, if I didn't have a time slip, I wouldn't have known which run was the fastest.
We are splitting hairs with all this tenth of a second differences. You just can't feel it when you are driving a car...it's just not that big of deal. Think about it...a half second...it looks big when you are racing down the track next to someone, but on your a$$ dyno, you can't tell it.
If you want a car, get something that is quick enough for you, but is fun to drive. That's the key...fun to drive. Find something you like, get a nice looking interior with the options you want, but more than anything else, make it fun to drive.
We all want to think we can race a car on a road course, but in all honesty, we'd pretty much suck at it when compared to the real pro's, and we can't pull nearly the capabilities of what the car really has in it.
The numbers are fun to look at and make some comparisons with, but good gawd, don't let a split second decide what car you are going to buy. Just buy the all around car that you like the best. | 
Best statement Ive heard yet....we all get caught up in it, but there is no greater truth than what you just said |
10-05-09, 11:28 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
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10-05-09, 11:33 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: June 2009 Location: Kearneysville, WV
Posts: 341
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Originally Posted by verbwiser Topspeed:
The advice SS gave you about the 370 is probably good advice. After thinking about it, and if money isn't an issue, that's probably what I would go with, too.
Now, about cars in general. I've driven more cars down the 1/4 mile through the years than I care to mention. I've driven slow ones, some fast ones, and everything in between.
We all get caught up in the numbers on 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times, but the thing is, that's just for internet bragging rights.
Honest to god....I've driven the same car down the track and run a 14.1 at 100 mph and turned right around and driven the same car at 13.5 at 105. And I swear to you, if I didn't have a time slip, I wouldn't have known which run was the fastest.
We are splitting hairs with all this tenth of a second differences. You just can't feel it when you are driving a car...it's just not that big of deal. Think about it...a half second...it looks big when you are racing down the track next to someone, but on your a$$ dyno, you can't tell it.
If you want a car, get something that is quick enough for you, but is fun to drive. That's the key...fun to drive. Find something you like, get a nice looking interior with the options you want, but more than anything else, make it fun to drive.
We all want to think we can race a car on a road course, but in all honesty, we'd pretty much suck at it when compared to the real pro's, and we can't pull nearly the capabilities of what the car really has in it.
The numbers are fun to look at and make some comparisons with, but good gawd, don't let a split second decide what car you are going to buy. Just buy the all around car that you like the best. | Lots of truth here. |
10-05-09, 11:33 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
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Last edited by SS02; 10-05-09 at 11:35 PM.
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10-05-09, 11:36 PM
| | Member | | Join Date: March 2006 Location: Albuquerque, NM
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Originally Posted by Fast05 I'll address each point on its own...
34k for a loaded SS, if you can actually find one at that price. And, FWIW I bought my 05 GT off the lot in January of 05 (3 months after release) for STICKER PRICE.
We already know the Mustang outperforms the Camaro as soon as the track makes a turn so your bringing the Z into the argument makes no sense, you're comparing 2 different cars. Sorry the SS is a pig at the track.
The same mag that runs a track pack GT at 13.5 and then runs a blown GT at 13.2 makes no sense at all. Do we know that track conditions were similar? My 05 ran 12.9 with less than 400 HP. So either bad driver or bad track conditions.
I picked up my loaded GT with 3.73s and all the goodies that come along with the 19" wheels for 31K. Try to get a Camaro for that price. Now if I put a supercharger on it I'd still have ended up spending less than a marked up SS | You have a valid argument for marked up SS's yes...But like he said, not all of them are marked up...For instance, I bought mine for MSRP...I got the RS package and a sunroof on top of the 2SS package so it came out to $36,325...Yes, you ended up paying about 5K less for a great performing car that I love as well (I have nothing at all against the Mustang!), but it's not true that you can't get an SS for MSRP |
10-06-09, 01:40 PM
|  | Official Member | | Join Date: September 2005 Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 376
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10-06-09, 06:31 PM
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10-06-09, 06:53 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: September 2005 Location: Corpus Christi, TX
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Originally Posted by MeanMike | Interesting indeed, however I don't see Toyota's Hybrids being banned from the US market. |
10-06-09, 07:34 PM
| | Member | | Join Date: September 2009
Posts: 14
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I got stuck driving around a 33,000 dollar prius about three weeks ago. I had it for four days.
Thoughts:
Paying 33,000 dollars for a prius is like paying 9 dollars for a cucumber.
If anyone can own one of the things and drive it for more than a year, then they deserve a tax break, which should be in the neighborhood of what GM got.
The car was slow. There was road noise/tire noise. Seats were uncomfortable. Miserable car.
I will never get the love that toyota gets....ever. |
10-06-09, 07:48 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: September 2005 Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 376
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Originally Posted by verbwiser I got stuck driving around a 33,000 dollar prius about three weeks ago. I had it for four days.
Thoughts:
Paying 33,000 dollars for a prius is like paying 9 dollars for a cucumber.
If anyone can own one of the things and drive it for more than a year, then they deserve a tax break, which should be in the neighborhood of what GM got.
The car was slow. There was road noise/tire noise. Seats were uncomfortable. Miserable car.
I will never get the love that toyota gets....ever. | I'm not sure I could drive a car that I couldn't hear  |
10-06-09, 08:30 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
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Originally Posted by SS02 Actually the Camaro has a best time of 8:20 around the "Ring"....and comeon...you do know how far 6 seconds is dont you....pretty good distance, and not to mention a huge weight disadvantage for the Camaro, yet it still placed right in the middle of the pack in cars around the nurburgring.
The cadilliac CTS-V just hit under 8 minutes WOW...which is crazy impressive...also
The new Bmw M3 has rumored to hit 8:15 Range around the Ring....which puts the new 2011 Mustang with Track Pak....also assuming it comes with super sticky tires it ran on during testing....around that same time..... | Correction.....the BMW M3 and The New Mustang ran the Michigan gingerman raceway..not the Nurburgring...my mistake. |
10-07-09, 04:53 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: September 2009
Posts: 28
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Originally Posted by SS02 Actually the Camaro has a best time of 8:20 around the "Ring"....and comeon...you do know how far 6 seconds is dont you....pretty good distance, and not to mention a huge weight disadvantage for the Camaro, yet it still placed right in the middle of the pack in cars around the nurburgring.
The cadilliac CTS-V just hit under 8 minutes WOW...which is crazy impressive...also
The new Bmw M3 has rumored to hit 8:15 Range around the Ring....which puts the new 2011 Mustang with Track Pak....also assuming it comes with super sticky tires it ran on during testing....around that same time..... |
Why do people constantly quote the "Ring" times. These cars are driven at the absolute edge of their limits to get these times. The drivers are varied and conditions are also varied. Who's to say that one driver was better or worse than another. Unless your car will be a dedicated track car I don't see the use but to say what your car might be capable of. |
10-07-09, 08:25 AM
|  | Official Member | | Join Date: March 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN/Soddy Daisy, TN
Posts: 577
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I still cant get over someone paying $70K for a friggin Nissan!!!! 
That would pay off the house, my car and my wifes car!!!! And would pay off our CC bills!!! |
10-07-09, 07:42 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
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Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing Why do people constantly quote the "Ring" times. These cars are driven at the absolute edge of their limits to get these times. The drivers are varied and conditions are also varied. Who's to say that one driver was better or worse than another. Unless your car will be a dedicated track car I don't see the use but to say what your car might be capable of. | TopSpeeds a road course guy....trying to find the best car for his taste...seems the Nissan 370Z is his choice, which makes sense.
Also times are always going to be talked about...I mean this is a forum. |
10-07-09, 09:06 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: June 2009 Location: Kearneysville, WV
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Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing Why do people constantly quote the "Ring" times. These cars are driven at the absolute edge of their limits to get these times. The drivers are varied and conditions are also varied. Who's to say that one driver was better or worse than another. Unless your car will be a dedicated track car I don't see the use but to say what your car might be capable of. | Because the 'Ring is the be all/end all of automotive performance when it comes to performance cars of all sorts; sports cars, sport sedans, roadsters, exotics, etc.
Quoting times on the 'Ring is no different from someone quoting quarter-mile times achieved by Evan Smith.
And you're exactly right; it's to say what your car may be capable of. |
10-07-09, 09:15 PM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: June 2009 Location: Kearneysville, WV
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Originally Posted by SS02 TopSpeeds a road course guy....trying to find the best car for his taste...seems the Nissan 370Z is his choice, which makes sense.
Also times are always going to be talked about...I mean this is a forum. | Thanks for that, bud.
While I wouldn't ever claim to be a "road course guy," I certainly am a big fan of a car that I could take on to the course and have it perform well out of the box.
Yeah, I like the straight-line stuff, but I'm just as much a fan of the curves. Right now, I have two cars that serve two separate purposes. When I go on a drive, I like variety. I might take a straight route (highway) for a cruise to "get the lead out," make an exit, and take the twisties back home. When I have a car that only does one of those well, it only makes 50% of the drive pleasurable. Yeah, the STi will "get it" in a straight line, but it lacks that "seat of the pants" sensation that a higher displacement engine provides.
I'm looking for a car that slots between the STi and the Camaro; one that provides the "seat of the pants" feel, plus one that will hang corners with the best of them.
At first, I thought maybe the Track Pack Mustang was the car that was the right choice, but after driving the 370Z, I'm not so sure. It doesn't change the fact that I don't love the Mustang just as much, but this next purchase is going to be my last "toy" for a VERY long time. When I go to drop my $30,000-$33,000, I can't be second-guessing my purchase. I need to purchase the car that is going to satisfy me all the way around, and if it's the Mustang, great, but if not, that's okay, too. I'll simply strike it up to not being the right car for me at this time.
A purchase is a long way off (at least a few months), so I'll have plenty of time to decide. |
11-04-09, 12:28 AM
| | Official Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 426
| | | Camaro Vs Mustang - October Sales
Camaro - 8,082
Mustang - 4789
Challenger - 2398
Total Camaros produced to date - 63190
Total Camaros Delivered to date - 47233 |
11-04-09, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SS02 Camaro - 8,082
Mustang - 4789
Challenger - 2398
Total Camaros produced to date - 63190
Total Camaros Delivered to date - 47233 | Suckers- 8,082
Happy Owners- 4789
Simply Misinformed- 2398 | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Rate This Thread |  Linear Mode | | 
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2010 Chevrolet Camaro
