[Fast05]

Originally Posted by SS02

I cant stay on conversation....im always being called out

I noticed, I can't keep up anymore

[Top Speed]

Here's a nice "LS1 story" for all of you.

So, it's late 1997 and the LS1 F-Bodies just made their debut. Motor Trend had just tested one and busted out a 13.7x.

There I am, cruising "Highway 100," otherwise known as "Route 100" in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I'm behind the wheel of my 1994 B4C with its Flowmaster muffler, Moroso CAI, throttlebody airfoil, and Hypertech Power Programmer when I spot a brand spanking new Z28 sitting in the Super America gas station. I pull in, and start talking to the owner. "Hey man, nice car! What's it run?" He tells me, "13.7x." I say, "Cool, what'd it trap?" He leans over into his car, and when he climbs out, to my surprise, he's holding a trusty old copy of Motor Trend in his hand. "It traps 10x." I said, "I thought you ran it?" He replies, "Well, Motor Trend ran a 13.7x, so I didn't need to take it to the track."

Well, the word was already out that these LS1 cars were crazy-fast, and destroying everything in their wake. I had to see what they were made of. I went out gunning for them, searching high and low, because I just had to have a piece of one of them. And so it was...

The LS1 Z28 yelled out a shriek as it dropped down a few gears, and I watched out the side window as the front end lifted, and then I watched as the nose slowly disappeared behind the passenger seat of my Camaro.

The race was over, and there I was, tickling nearly 100 mph. We slowed down, and the defeated LS1 owner asked me to follow him into a gas station so he could check out my car. I obliged.

"How...but....I don't understand! I have an LS1! They're supposed to be faster than an LT1! WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY CAR?" Well, like a good sport, I told him, "Nothing's wrong with your car. It's simply just not as fast as mine." Poor fellow...

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this particular Z28 never made it to the track, and after catching wind of Evan Smith running a 12.87, I'm sure he's telling everyone that his LS1 ran a 12.87 in the quarter mile, and if not, I'm sure he's telling everyone he dynoed 300 rwhp and runs a 13.2 @ 107 mph.

Well, everybody, I guess that means that LT1s must run 14.90 @ 93 mph, because that's what R&T got out of one in a test. I guess I owned a factory freak, because I consistently turned in 14.60s @ 98.x mph, and I know it was due to my lack of experience on the track. The fastest I ran in the car was a 14.1x @ 99.7 mph, and even then, I swear this car was capable of 13s with a capable driver. BUT, it's my car, and I ran a 14.1x. That's the way it is. If that's what I ran while driving it, that's what it runs, period. It wouldn't matter a bit if Evan Smith drove it and turned a 13.5x out of it, or whatever, because Evan Smith doesn't drive my car.

[SS02]

^^^ Great point indeed. True are cars are only as fast as its operators !!! WELL SAID

I think the biggest arguement is the Capability factor. What can the car actually do...thats the whole argument from how ive seen it. Honestly unless youve seen certain times out of cars then I guess its all speculation....especially if you doubt it eh.

[SS02]

Originally Posted by whitesqual

, some do!

I hope not..... Call Bull **** on that

[whitesqual]

Originally Posted by SS02

I hope not..... Call Bull **** on that

yeah, Ive had to wave the flag before!

[Cory281]

I'm sure a 94-95 GT can hit 12's with bolt ons. 5.0s starve for air, isn't heads and a intake manifold considered bolt ons? Because I would think with good heads/intake manifold combo and the supporting mods those cars with hit high 12's. If you want to know more about what 5.0s are capable of then go ask around in the 5.0 forum. Alot of guys over here myself included have never owned a 5.0 Mustang.

From what I've seen at the track, LS1 Camaros can run low 13's. Most drivers hit mid 13's and are a drivers race with the 05+ GT's. Or the 99+ Cobras, the LS1 has a little bit of a edge over the 99-01 Cobra in the 1/4. The LT1's I've seen hit low 14's and I've heard a couple of times of people hitting 13.9. I hear the same about the 99-04 GT's, but I hear about them hitting 13.9's more often. My old 01 with flowmasters and a K&N filter did 14.1with a 2.4 60' time.

SS02, it's cool if you come on here posting about Camaros and such, but sometimes I feel like you might be doing it to just get Mustang guys over here upset? Maybe I'm wrong and just maybe you come across like that. But I personally don't have any problem with you. But I just wanted say, since Camaro guys are always talking about how the Mustang is a little bit behind the Camaro that the 03-04 Cobras are still faster then the brand new Camaro. So this argument can go both ways.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

^^^ Great point indeed. True are cars are only as fast as its operators !!! WELL SAID

I think the biggest arguement is the Capability factor. What can the car actually do...thats the whole argument from how ive seen it. Honestly unless youve seen certain times out of cars then I guess its all speculation....especially if you doubt it eh.

Well, I don't believe any times until I see them myself. Now, I after making the "my buddy did this" comment, I'm embarassed to say that I had a buddy that had what was known to be the "factory freak car" of the area when I was living in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He had a 1993 6spd Z28 and claims were out that he belted out a 13.65 @ 105 mph with nothing more than a Flowmaster exhaust and a CAI. I didn't believe it for a second.

As chances would have it, Scott was hitting the track and asked him if I wanted to meet him up there. "Sure, why not..." Sure enough, that car was running mid 13s @ 104-106 mph. While I never saw this car run the acclaimed 13.65 E.T., it did manage to turn a 13.7x @ 106 mph. Given all of the variables, I tend to believe that this car really did run that 13.65 E.T.

Back in 1997, R&T had a Vortech-supercharged LT1 Z28 that they had tested. They managed to run a "blistering" 13.6 @ 107 mph, or something like that. Even at the time I thought, "This time sucks! There is no way!" Well, again, as fate would have it, Scott supercharged the "factory freak" and hit the track. He was turning consistent 12.30s-12.50s @ 112+ mph. Another one of Scott's friends, Jeremy, had a real nice LT1 Z28 that was supercharged, and he wound up running in the 12.50 range as well.

Originally Posted by Cory281

I'm sure a 94-95 GT can hit 12's with bolt ons. 5.0s starve for air, isn't heads and a intake manifold considered bolt ons? Because I would think with good heads/intake manifold combo and the supporting mods those cars with hit high 12's. If you want to know more about what 5.0s are capable of then go ask around in the 5.0 forum. Alot of guys over here myself included have never owned a 5.0 Mustang.

From what I've seen at the track, LS1 Camaros can run low 13's. Most drivers hit mid 13's and are a drivers race with the 05+ GT's. Or the 99+ Cobras, the LS1 has a little bit of a edge over the 99-01 Cobra in the 1/4. The LT1's I've seen hit low 14's and I've heard a couple of times of people hitting 13.9. I hear the same about the 99-04 GT's, but I hear about them hitting 13.9's more often. My old 01 with flowmasters and a K&N filter did 14.1with a 2.4 60' time.

SS02, it's cool if you come on here posting about Camaros and such, but sometimes I feel like you might be doing it to just get Mustang guys over here upset? Maybe I'm wrong and just maybe you come across like that. But I personally don't have any problem with you. But I just wanted say, since Camaro guys are always talking about how the Mustang is a little bit behind the Camaro that the 03-04 Cobras are still faster then the brand new Camaro. So this argument can go both ways.

I tend to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but in the grand scheme of things, my feelings about it, depending on the claim, are, "If I didn't see it, it didn't happen." Being a domestic Muscle Car fan, I'd love to see and believe every claim I've ever heard.

[SS02]

Originally Posted by Cory281

I'm sure a 94-95 GT can hit 12's with bolt ons. 5.0s starve for air, isn't heads and a intake manifold considered bolt ons? Because I would think with good heads/intake manifold combo and the supporting mods those cars with hit high 12's. If you want to know more about what 5.0s are capable of then go ask around in the 5.0 forum. Alot of guys over here myself included have never owned a 5.0 Mustang.

From what I've seen at the track, LS1 Camaros can run low 13's. Most drivers hit mid 13's and are a drivers race with the 05+ GT's. Or the 99+ Cobras, the LS1 has a little bit of a edge over the 99-01 Cobra in the 1/4. The LT1's I've seen hit low 14's and I've heard a couple of times of people hitting 13.9. I hear the same about the 99-04 GT's, but I hear about them hitting 13.9's more often. My old 01 with flowmasters and a K&N filter did 14.1with a 2.4 60' time.

SS02, it's cool if you come on here posting about Camaros and such, but sometimes I feel like you might be doing it to just get Mustang guys over here upset? Maybe I'm wrong and just maybe you come across like that. But I personally don't have any problem with you. But I just wanted say, since Camaro guys are always talking about how the Mustang is a little bit behind the Camaro that the 03-04 Cobras are still faster then the brand new Camaro. So this argument can go both ways.

Bud, you need to read the entire forums. Im the one being called out, not the other way around. Just read a couple pages

As far as the bolt ons go, yeah , I guess you can consider Heads and Intake a bolton, but dont consider it "Stock Motored" like what this conversation is about to begin with. I could see his argument if he said " Stock Shortblock", then that would imply the above mentioned. With a H/I Full Exhaust Gears, Slicks, Suspension....sure, Ill submit that the 94 can run high 12s

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Bud, you need to read the entire forums. Im the one being called out, not the other way around. Just read a couple pages

As far as the bolt ons go, yeah , I guess you can consider Heads and Intake a bolton, but dont consider it "Stock Motored" like what this conversation is about to begin with. I could see his argument if he said " Stock Shortblock", then that would imply the above mentioned. With a H/I Full Exhaust Gears, Slicks, Suspension....sure, Ill submit that the 94 can run high 12s

I'd agree. A stock motor is just that, a stock motor. While I'd agree that heads are a "bolt-on," I think it's an extenuating circumstance. Heads affect a lot more than just airflow from an "outside source" like an exhaust or cold air intake.

[Sa-When]

"If I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

This is the best qoote of the whole 6 page thread, I don't really think anyone is calling out SS02 [o.k. except me.lol] we are just disagreeing with him because [we have never seen it] but he keeps insisting the we believe it so now we have 6 pages of yes they do no they don't..
But like he said in the begining this will more then likely turn into a 20 page war.

[SS02]

Again, you probably read one post, made a statement, and have absolutly no idea what were talking about. Read the thread pumpkin, then make a comment. You asked me to show you low 13 runnin LS1s, and I did. So dont get all fissy that I showed you.

Hell one of the admins came in and said..."Every one knows their low 13 runners, who said they dont" ......Its getting deep around your feet.

Are argument was about tenths of seconds on the LS1, not actually Seconds on a 94 GT.....big difference in conversation.

[Sa-When]

Look, I don't care how many videos there are I have not seen it in person,Why don't you understand that, I can show you videos of H/C/I Ls1s running 13.3 and you would say [well its the driver] so claim what you want better yet your right all LS1s run low 13s Happy!!!

[Fast05]

This thread is going no-where fast.

Flame session.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Sa-When

"If I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

This is the best qoote of the whole 6 page thread, I don't really think anyone is calling out SS02 [o.k. except me.lol] we are just disagreeing with him because [we have never seen it] but he keeps insisting the we believe it so now we have 6 pages of yes they do no they don't..
But like he said in the begining this will more then likely turn into a 20 page war.

Originally Posted by Fast05

This thread is going no-where fast.

Flame session.

I must disagree on this being a "20 page war" or a "flame session." What I'm observing here is a bunch of guys debating on the performance of two vehicles; mainly the performance of an SN95 Mustang and an LS1 F-Body.

IMO, I believe there have been a few very minor "heated" moments, but for the most part, I believe everyone has been civil towards each other for the most part.

Ok, we really haven't made much headway, but I'm hoping that out of all of this, we all wind up satisfied. I get to see a timeslip/dyno of a BONE STOCK LS1 putting out 300 rwhp or running a 13.20, someone else gets to see the Camaro run a 12 flat 1/4 mile, and someone else gets to see the "stock motored" SN95 Mustang pull off a 12 second 1/4 mile.

I hope that we can all walk away from this thread satisfied with the proofs we are seeking, but more importantly, all walk away as friends who helped each other out.

[SS02]

I can live with that

[Bad92GT]

Originally Posted by SS02

WOW....... your saying a 225 hp, 3400lb 94 mustang is running 12s bone stock. I guess us LS1 guys are missing out big time !!! Are u serious bud? Then you say your stock geared 95 with Full exhaust stays side by side with a 325hp Shelby GT !! Listen everyone loves the 5.0, but those things bone stock were slow man. Fun as hell to drive and modify, and after modifing they were a flat at blast !!! my buddy had a 89 hatch with a 347 in it....BAD BITCH !!!

I call alot of false statements on your glory of the 5.0 though. I had a 2000 GT minor mods , my buddy had a Nice Notch with full exhaust and some other things and I still pulled it. Maybe it was a drivers race.....which I would point to if you beat a Shelby GT in your 95. Sorry, no disrespect but comeon.

I owned the shelby GT and the 95. My old man, who's a seasoned drag racer since the 70's was driving. Stock worked over heads, intake, and camshaft can put you in the 12's. I'll even find the fellow thats done it, it's in a couple magazines and he's a member here in the 5.0 section. 90lxmustang I think, he's got a grey/black LX hatch. He can drive, thats all there is to it. You can say what you will about it being false, but there were atleast 500 people that saw that race, including numerous friends of mine, and they all knew the cars. Comparison between my car, as well as other factory 5.0s, I usually blow there doors off. My car has always been fast, much faster then it should have been coming out of a junkyard. Not glorifying myself here but in reality, gear, slicks, and the right suspension with a good driver, the 5.0's very capable, much more then many folk like to think. The E-web can deny it all they want but i've seen it, owned it, and drove it myself, and I know thats a fact.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Bad92GT

I owned the shelby GT and the 95. My old man, who's a seasoned drag racer since the 70's was driving. Stock worked over heads, intake, and camshaft can put you in the 12's. I'll even find the fellow thats done it, it's in a couple magazines and he's a member here in the 5.0 section. 90lxmustang I think, he's got a grey/black LX hatch. He can drive, thats all there is to it. You can say what you will about it being false, but there were atleast 500 people that saw that race, including numerous friends of mine, and they all knew the cars. Comparison between my car, as well as other factory 5.0s, I usually blow there doors off. My car has always been fast, much faster then it should have been coming out of a junkyard. Not glorifying myself here but in reality, gear, slicks, and the right suspension with a good driver, the 5.0's very capable, much more then many folk like to think. The E-web can deny it all they want but i've seen it, owned it, and drove it myself, and I know thats a fact.

Sooooo, where's your proof? Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a "liar," but we're certainly not going to take your word for it. It doesn't matter if your dad is Don Prudhomme or Don Garlits.

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't an agreement already satisfied that we would all help each other come up with the required proof of what we've been discussing and have requested to see?

A. A time slip and/or dyno slip from a BONE STOCK LS1 F-Body either running 13.20s (or below) at 107+ mph or making over 300 rwhp.

B. A time slip from an SN95 Mustang GT running 12s with a STOCK engine (bolt-ons okay except for heads or forced induction).

C. A 2010 Camaro SS running a 12.0 with nothing more than an exhaust.

D. A video and/or copy of SS02's personal car running the 1/4 mile (or was that a different thread?).


There is no use in beating this horse to death any longer. Instead of the "he says, she says," just post the proof. It's as simple as that.

[Bad92GT]

Oh I complete understand where you come from, however the fact is I've learned that you can't please everybody, and I've had graphs as well as slips refuted and proposed that the weren't even mine. I know what my car runs, and I've seen what others run, You don't have to believe me, that's the beauty of the E-racer life.

[whitesqual]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

I must disagree on this being a "20 page war" or a "flame session." What I'm observing here is a bunch of guys debating on the performance of two vehicles; mainly the performance of an SN95 Mustang and an LS1 F-Body.

IMO, I believe there have been a few very minor "heated" moments, but for the most part, I believe everyone has been civil towards each other for the most part.

Ok, we really haven't made much headway, but I'm hoping that out of all of this, we all wind up satisfied. I get to see a timeslip/dyno of a BONE STOCK LS1 putting out 300 rwhp or running a 13.20, someone else gets to see the Camaro run a 12 flat 1/4 mile, and someone else gets to see the "stock motored" SN95 Mustang pull off a 12 second 1/4 mile.

I hope that we can all walk away from this thread satisfied with the proofs we are seeking, but more importantly, all walk away as friends who helped each other out.

Group hug!

[SS02]

Just so im reading it right, you said you had Heads,intake and camshaft work. If thats the case then yes...I completely believe you. If I read that right. A built 5.0 from Slicks, to Suspension to the motor for sure will run high 12s. I thought you were claiming a Stock 5.0 will reach high 12s, which we all no wont do that. Didnt mean to misread the post...if I did....Did I?

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Bad92GT

Oh I complete understand where you come from, however the fact is I've learned that you can't please everybody, and I've had graphs as well as slips refuted and proposed that the weren't even mine. I know what my car runs, and I've seen what others run, You don't have to believe me, that's the beauty of the E-racer life.

It's not that I don't believe you, but there are some here who are skeptical. I personally believe that it can be done. Have I seen it? I have not, but I'm a firm believer in power/weight=performance. Would I like to see the solid proof? Absolutely!

[SS02]

Camaro -6686

The Camaro sold 1000k less units this month than last month. Its selling better, but not by much.

Mustang - 6289

Down 23% from last year.
Sceptics wonder if the new 5.0 is to blame for the low sales. Though most sells are the V6 Model.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Camaro -6686

The Camaro sold 1000k less units this month than last month. Its selling better, but not by much.

Mustang - 6289

Down 23% from last year.
Sceptics wonder if the new 5.0 is to blame for the low sales. Though most sells are the V6 Model.

The new Camaro is undoubtedly to blame. I'm sure that since there wasn't any decent RWD Muscle Car but the Mustang for a good amount of time, I'm sure some Camaro fans had the itch for a new Muscle Car and bought Mustangs.

In all honesty, I never wanted a Mustang until after the Camaro disappeared, and that was mainly just to spite GM and not support them.

I dunno, times changed after the 2010 came out. I always thought the 2005-2009 GTs and Roush cars looked good, and when I kept hearing about how the interior was upgraded for 2010, I figured I owed myself a peek, especially after being really disappointed with the interior quality back in 2005 when I attended an auto show and sat in a then-new Mustang.

I just wound up looking at a 2010 Mustang and loved it...and loved it even more after driving it.

I guess my main motivation to look at Mustangs was because the new Camaro disgusted me so much. I don't like anything about that new Camaro but the horsepower rating. It just goes to show that the best car isn't always the one with the most power.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by SS02

Camaro -6686

The Camaro sold 1000k less units this month than last month. Its selling better, but not by much.

Mustang - 6289

Down 23% from last year.
Sceptics wonder if the new 5.0 is to blame for the low sales. Though most sells are the V6 Model.

Wasn't the Camaro a few thousand ahead the first few months and now the difference is a mere 400? Looks like the fan boy "rush" to be the first to get a Camaro is starting to wear out.

I've also been reading alot about certain quality control issues GM is having with this vehicle. After finding them it sounds like horror stories, I know every new model has issues (my 05 did, but minor and fixable in less than a day) but they had a lot of time to work on this car and there's people buying it with a loose spoiler because the bolts aren't tight, or their oil pan is leaking, or they can't get the key out of the ignition, or their front facia cracks at high speed, interior pieces falling off, running paint, just to name a few. I guess when you have that coupled with independent studies that compare the quality of Fords to Honda and Toyota saying it's equal to or better, it makes people stop and think. Ford's sales were up 17% in August, while GM was down 20%. Looks like they've got a long way to go, and I guess throwing a corvette engine in every car you sell must not be the answer. (sarcastic)

[SS02]

Well the problems ive been hearing are ppl Thrashing there new Camaros and tearing it up. Dont know about the rest of your comment but theres always going to be complainers.