[SS02]

^^^ If 500lbs were removed it would run times of the C6 Vette...its running 12.80s and 12.90s...how much faster do you want it.... Dumb question I know, but it holds the weight well in the straight aways. If the mustang launches the 5.0 weighing 3900lbs, id still buy it, I bet it still runs low 13s high 12s.

Look at the Lambos, ferrari's and such....hell even they are wieghing in over 4000lbs....Price we have to pay so the Government can think were safe............going 150 mph

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

^^^ If 500lbs were removed it would run times of the C6 Vette...its running 12.80s and 12.90s...how much faster do you want it.... Dumb question I know, but it holds the weight well in the straight aways. If the mustang launches the 5.0 weighing 3900lbs, id still buy it, I bet it still runs low 13s high 12s.

Look at the Lambos, ferrari's and such....hell even they are wieghing in over 4000lbs....Price we have to pay so the Government can think were safe............going 150 mph

The Murcielago weighs near 4000 lbs, and so does the Ferrari Scaglietti and new California. None of those cars are small, and none of them are considered to be the world's greatest handlers from either of those companies. They're undoubtedly showstoppers, but their strengths are on the freeway and Autobahn. If you want to attach corners, you hit yourself up with either a Gallardo or F430.

That's great that the Camaro "holds its weight" in a straight line, but the road bends, too. The funniest thing out of the whole thing is that GM was determined to "stick a fork" in the Mustang once and for all, and even after all that determination they failed...miserably. Instead, what GM managed to do was build a porky, bulbous "Muscle Car" that Daddy would want because he missed out on a new 1969 Camaro. This new Camaro is nothing more than a straight-line performer that deserves nothing more than to be crawling along in a Macy's Day Parade with some old bastard behind at the helm, smiling and waving to everyone.

Last night I attended a car show and somebody was there proudly showing off their new Camaro. Being the type of person I am, I had to go look at this attrocity, and the closer I got to this ca, the uglier it became. The sides were flat, the "square" taillights looked out of place, and it just looked...blocky. That car has a nice side profile and even a front profile, but anything from a 3/4 view is just ungodly. It looks big, unproportionate, and like a box with two round headlights. The Mustang looks good from any angle.

It also strikes me as funny that despite the Camaro being the "newest" of the two between it and the Mustang, back to back tests show EVERYONE commenting on how much lighter on its feet the Mustang feels, and how it's much more controlled. What a discovery! The 2010 Mustang is superior to the Camaro in every way except for in the "power department" and the "sophisticated suspension department," though somehow Ford seems to manage controlling the live axle.

[TURBO80LXCOUPE]

i think the new maro is a sick car with lots of potential.the new mustang does not do any thing for me.looks ugly and very little power increase.
will see if ford actualy puts a new motor in the stang for 2011 but i doubt
it.the ls series are a great base for power n/a.hopefully ford steps it up.
now only if ls parts would get cheaper

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by TURBO80LXCOUPE

i think the new maro is a sick car with lots of potential.the new mustang does not do any thing for me.looks ugly and very little power increase.
will see if ford actualy puts a new motor in the stang for 2011 but i doubt
it.the ls series are a great base for power n/a.hopefully ford steps it up.
now only if ls parts would get cheaper

How does a 4000 lb pig add up to potential? There's the potential to go fast in a straight line, but what happens when the road curves? It's going to be like auto-crossing a 1971 Caprice.

Also, maybe the 2011 Mustang will get the 5.0L motor, but there's rumors that the 2011 Mustang is also going to weigh nearly 3900 lbs. Again, any power increase you may get is going to be washed out by the weight. Let's say that the 2011 Mustang does get the 400 hp 5.0L, and the car does weigh 3900 lbs. What happens then? That 85 extra hp all of a sudden just washes itself out, and what you wind up with is a 400 hp car that doesn't do anything but move in a straight line, and it may not even move much faster than the lighter 315 hp variant.

As for styling, to each his/her own. I'm not a huge fan of Mustangs, other than the '68-'70 fastbacks (GT, Mach 1, Boss), Fox LXs , and the '05-currents. Otherwise, When it comes to Camaros, I'll happily take take any of them except for a 5th Generation model. If I could own any Camaro, I'd own a 1977 Z28 in silver/black/red. No, they didn't make a lot of power, but damned if they didn't look good.

[SS02]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

How does a 4000 lb pig add up to potential? There's the potential to go fast in a straight line, but what happens when the road curves? It's going to be like auto-crossing a 1971 Caprice.

Also, maybe the 2011 Mustang will get the 5.0L motor, but there's rumors that the 2011 Mustang is also going to weigh nearly 3900 lbs. Again, any power increase you may get is going to be washed out by the weight. Let's say that the 2011 Mustang does get the 400 hp 5.0L, and the car does weigh 3900 lbs. What happens then? That 85 extra hp all of a sudden just washes itself out, and what you wind up with is a 400 hp car that doesn't do anything but move in a straight line, and it may not even move much faster than the lighter 315 hp variant.

As for styling, to each his/her own. I'm not a huge fan of Mustangs, other than the '68-'70 fastbacks (GT, Mach 1, Boss), Fox LXs , and the '05-currents. Otherwise, When it comes to Camaros, I'll happily take take any of them except for a 5th Generation model. If I could own any Camaro, I'd own a 1977 Z28 in silver/black/red. No, they didn't make a lot of power, but damned if they didn't look good.

Well its all but confirmed about the Track pack for the Camaro, its obvious the Camaro isnt a great handler, although it only finished 1.4 ticks behind the GT500 at the nuhremburg (I spelled that wrong). Styling is to each his own, I know alot that hate the rear of the Stang, although I think it looks alot better after some time seeing it.

The 1977 Z28 isnt a road handler either ....although gorgous

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Well its all but confirmed about the Track pack for the Camaro, its obvious the Camaro isnt a great handler, although it only finished 1.4 ticks behind the GT500 at the nuhremburg (I spelled that wrong). Styling is to each his own, I know alot that hate the rear of the Stang, although I think it looks alot better after some time seeing it.

The 1977 Z28 isnt a road handler either ....although gorgous

I'm not a big fan of the rear of the 2010 Stang, but I have seen ways to make it look better. The rear of a car can be fixed. An entire car itself (the Camaro) can't be fixed.

The times that both, the Camaro and the Shelby put down at the Nurburgring are very unimpressive to me. The Camaro did the Nurburgring in only two seconds faster than a Cobalt SS, and then GM shook their pom-poms like this was some sort of fantastically accomplished feat (given the pig's 4000 lb weight, it may have been...). Those two seconds were undoubtedly gained in a straight line, one in which the Cobalt never recovered from.

While you're chewing on that, let's put it into perspective. We have a newly designed vehicle with an independent rear suspension, slick 6spd manual, RWD, over 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque from a 6.2L V8 that circled the Nurburgring in only two seconds faster than a hotted-up FWD economy car.

Good job, GM.

Now, there's word that GM is going to put a "Track Pack" on the Camaro. How much time do you think that's going to shave off of a lap at the Nurburgring? GM will be lucky if it shaves off 5 seconds, which IMO, on a track over 10 miles long is not much of an accomplishment, and is hardly going to be worth a thing in the real world.

Maybe you're fooled into thinking the new Camaro is a great car, but hey, to each his/her own...

[Justin01]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

Now, there's word that GM is going to put a "Track Pack" on the Camaro.

So the camaro has never been highly reguarded as a corner carver.....so is the "track pack" going to be something for the drag strip, or the auto cross? What's included? Shocks and springs and gears? Or something more for the corners? I think they tried valiantly to incorporate some of the vette-ness into this car, but you're right, it is too heavy.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Justin01

So the camaro has never been highly reguarded as a corner carver.....so is the "track pack" going to be something for the drag strip, or the auto cross? What's included? Shocks and springs and gears? Or something more for the corners? I think they tried valiantly to incorporate some of the vette-ness into this car, but you're right, it is too heavy.

Well if they were trying to incorporate some "Vette-ness" into it, they certainly fell VERY short. In the past, the Camaro has always been on the heels of the Vette in terms of acceleration; always between 10-30 horses, and usually it was because of the routing of an exhaust and a restrictive air intake. The Camaro has also always been within 200-300 lbs of the Vette; not so this time around. GM wanted to make very sure that the Camaro wasn't going to dig into Vette sales.

In the grand scheme of things, it won't matter if this Track Pack is going to be for the dragstrip or for autocross. It's still going to be a 4000 lb car.

[SS02]

Well you have your opinion and I have mine

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Well you have your opinion and I have mine

Everything I stated in my previous post is pure fact.

[SS02]

Good for you, You hate the Camaro, so this argument leads no where...... Its a Fatcow to you lol....

Also the Turbo SS Cobalt is a littler burner, impressive it stays just 2 seconds behind a Camaro and GT500

As far as the Track pack goes, If the Camaro lost 5 seconds off its current time, it would have beat every car in the new motortrend except the ZR1 at that track. Thats impressive.....although I have no idea what the Trackpack is going to offer. I hope a stiffer suspension setup, a taller gear ratio..maybe 4.11s with it being a 6 speed and all, and some nice sticky tires like the new mustang Track pack is going to offer.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Good for you, You hate the Camaro, so this argument leads no where...... Its a Fatcow to you lol....

Also the Turbo SS Cobalt is a littler burner, impressive it stays just 2 seconds behind a Camaro and GT500

As far as the Track pack goes, If the Camaro lost 5 seconds off its current time, it would have beat every car in the new motortrend except the ZR1 at that track. Thats impressive.....although I have no idea what the Trackpack is going to offer. I hope a stiffer suspension setup, a taller gear ratio..maybe 4.11s with it being a 6 speed and all, and some nice sticky tires like the new mustang Track pack is going to offer.

Actually, it's good for Ford that I hate the new Camaro.

And yes, an accomplishment....FOR THE COBALT SS, and an insult to two V8 Muscle Cars that are $10,000-$25,000 more expensive and have nearly double the hp for one and more than double the hp for the other.

I don't read Motor Trench, so I wouldn't know about the times of the cars in the newest issue, but I did manage to thumb through an issue of Motor Trench at the store where I saw the fat cow place 10th in a "Top 10 Best" contest.

If I'm not already, I'd like to be the first to congratulate GM on their last place finish.

[MeanMike]

Even if the 2011/2012 Mustang weigh's more I think the big thing with it will be the fact that you wont be able to see it as you can with the fat ass Camaro.I mean you can literally see that the Camaro has made to many trip's through the Mc Donald's drive through.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by MeanMike

Even if the 2011/2012 Mustang weigh's more I think the big thing with it will be the fact that you wont be able to see it as you can with the fat ass Camaro.I mean you can literally see that the Camaro has made to many trip's through the Mc Donald's drive through.

Agreed.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by MeanMike

Even if the 2011/2012 Mustang weigh's more I think the big thing with it will be the fact that you wont be able to see it as you can with the fat ass Camaro.I mean you can literally see that the Camaro has made to many trip's through the Mc Donald's drive through.

I've had the opportunity to park next to a Challenger and a Camaro in the past few weeks both of those cars make my Mustang look small. I just hope that when Ford intros the new engine the Mustang doesn't get porky. Obviously it'll gain a little weight, but I'd be much more impressed if it came in under 3700 lbs with 400hp than if it was tipping the scales at over 3900.

[MeanMike]

Originally Posted by Fast05

I've had the opportunity to park next to a Challenger and a Camaro in the past few weeks both of those cars make my Mustang look small. I just hope that when Ford intros the new engine the Mustang doesn't get porky. Obviously it'll gain a little weight, but I'd be much more impressed if it came in under 3700 lbs with 400hp than if it was tipping the scales at over 3900.

It hurt's me to say this but atleast with the Challenger it does'nt look over weight like the Camaro it's just a big car. Even if the stang gain's some weight I really dont believe it will be noticable.

[SS02]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

Actually, it's good for Ford that I hate the new Camaro.

And yes, an accomplishment....FOR THE COBALT SS, and an insult to two V8 Muscle Cars that are $10,000-$25,000 more expensive and have nearly double the hp for one and more than double the hp for the other.

I don't read Motor Trench, so I wouldn't know about the times of the cars in the newest issue, but I did manage to thumb through an issue of Motor Trench at the store where I saw the fat cow place 10th in a "Top 10 Best" contest.

If I'm not already, I'd like to be the first to congratulate GM on their last place finish.

That was an article by two journalists, they placed a car based on how they felt. The Miata was in the top 5.....really lol..........and of course, it being Motor Trend...the Porshe Won.... surprise surprise.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

That was an article by two journalists, they placed a car based on how they felt. The Miata was in the top 5.....really lol..........and of course, it being Motor Trend...the Porshe Won.... surprise surprise.

Well, the best car isn't always the fastest. Have you ever driven a Miata? They are not the fastest cars in the world, but they are pure, unadulterated sports cars in every sense of the word. They are an absolute blast to drive, and if I just wanted a pure sports car, I would definitely consider one. They're "snappy," they're well balanced, light, they have a positive-shifting "snick-snick" gearbox; they're just so much fun.

I don't put much stock in magazines, especially Car & Driver and Road & Track. They hug BMW's nuts, no matter what sort of crap product they put out. I've driven countless BMWs, and let me tell you, they aren't as great as the magazines would have you believe. A few years ago one of them pitted a BMW M3 Vs. a Corvette and the Vette owned it in EVERY performance category. Apparently, this "dual" was exclusively on performance, and the BMW won because it had back seats and a nicer interior. I didn't realize either one of them had anything to do with performance.

These nut-huggers go out and rate which ever manufacturer's cars the highest that pay them the most.

[SS02]

I agree with the Miata....but there explanation about why just confuses one... you have to read the article and decide for yourself, they contradict themselves. I didnt bother me like its bothered other Camaro owners. Its an opinion based article is all it is, they shouldnt get upset.....kinda of crazy though that your picking cars ranging from a Miata to a ZR1 and your deciding the best car, the comparisons were numbing lol.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

I agree with the Miata....but there explanation about why just confuses one... you have to read the article and decide for yourself, they contradict themselves. I didnt bother me like its bothered other Camaro owners. Its an opinion based article is all it is, they shouldnt get upset.....kinda of crazy though that your picking cars ranging from a Miata to a ZR1 and your deciding the best car, the comparisons were numbing lol.

All of those magazines are ridiculous. I never look at them for anything more than bathroom reading.

Sure, when I'm in the market for a new car, I certainly read the articles, but I only take them for face-value. They aren't gospel for me on purchasing one car over another just because it won some stupid, fixed "contest."

C&D ranted about how cheap the Pontiac G6's interior is, and while it's no Audi interior, it was certainly on par with everything in its class. I know, because my parents own a G6. I have driven it numerous times, and it's as well-screwed together as any interior you'd find in a Toyota, Mazda, Subaru, whatever.

As an example of typical "stackings of decks," which all of these magazines partake in, C&D also rated the interior of the Mazda 6 as greatly improved over the previous model. Well, I have news for all of you; it's really not that great. It's no better than the G6's interior in terms of materials used or the fit/finish of them.

[SS02]

Chevrolet Camaro Z28 is GO! - Motor Trend

The Z/28 is scheduled for 2011

Powered by a LSA 6.2L Supercharged - 556Hp

The CTS-V with this engines runs 0-60 in 4.2 and 12.6 in the 1/4, all while carrying 4200lbs. The Z is supposed to be lighter and more refined than the current SS.

WHOO HOOO

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Chevrolet Camaro Z28 is GO! - Motor Trend

The Z/28 is scheduled for 2011

Powered by a LSA 6.2L Supercharged - 556Hp

The CTS-V with this engines runs 0-60 in 4.2 and 12.6 in the 1/4, all while carrying 4200lbs. The Z is supposed to be lighter and more refined than the current SS.

WHOO HOOO

Soooo, how's this car going to be lighter? It's going to have a supercharger lopped on top of the engine, which weighs more, plus it may even have LARGER brakes, and probably a heavier duty suspension.

Be prepared to pay nearly $50,000; on target with the Shelby GT500.

[SS02]

Its sole purpose is to compete with the Shelby !! As far as weight, I dunno...Suspension will probably be tightened up...dont mean alot of weight....Im sure it will still equip the SS Brakes, I mean comeon...their 14inches in the front and 14.4 in the back !! Dont see why they would go bigger. Look for it to be around 3900lbs. Unless they gut it out and make it a track car. Id say mid 40s low 50s.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

Its sole purpose is to compete with the Shelby !! As far as weight, I dunno...Suspension will probably be tightened up...dont mean alot of weight....Im sure it will still equip the SS Brakes, I mean comeon...their 14inches in the front and 14.4 in the back !! Dont see why they would go bigger. Look for it to be around 3900lbs. Unless they gut it out and make it a track car. Id say mid 40s low 50s.

The rear brakes are larger than the fronts? Any idiot knows that the front brakes do the majority of the stopping...well, obviously except for GM. No wonder they went under...

It's pretty screwed up that if they're trimming weight, they're going to trim it on a vehicle that's pretty much priced out of the range of most Camaro enthusiasts. What they should be doing is offering a 1LE package on the V6 and SS models.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by SS02

Chevrolet Camaro Z28 is GO! - Motor Trend

The Z/28 is scheduled for 2011

Powered by a LSA 6.2L Supercharged - 556Hp

The CTS-V with this engines runs 0-60 in 4.2 and 12.6 in the 1/4, all while carrying 4200lbs. The Z is supposed to be lighter and more refined than the current SS.

WHOO HOOO

So, let me get this straight, they're going to offer a 556 HP Camaro for less than a Corvette? Give me a break. And why is a company running on tax payer money devoting time and money into a project like this? I understand having the Camaro, but geez if you GM guys want to go that fast for your money just buy a Corvette and call it a day, it'll weigh 1000lbs less and handle far better. Oh, and good luck getting it lighter. If they spend too much money making it lighter they'll just put it into Corvette price range, which I already see happening anyways.