[fshawn50]

Have looked at about all camshafts made for the 2v 4.6 mod. An none really stick out from the others? Was seein if some of you might have a choice on which one is better? Something not wild but a daily driver?

[crazystang25]

stage 2 hitechs

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Originally Posted by crazystang25

stage 2 hitechs

For a non wild best for daily driver that wants to most power, i'd agree.
If you want to step down to more of a stage 1 others could be suggested.

[fshawn50]

Cool thats what lot of people say the HiTech's. Just seen Lunati came out with a Voodoo cam for mods.? Didn't really look any more aggresive than CompCams?

[crazystang25]

ya haven't heard to much about the lunati, but i have even talked to the guys at hitech and would love to get some for mine. from dyno sheets and video's of hitech'd stangs its what i would go with, they have a good rpm range.

[1low03gt]

CUSHMAN MOTORSPORTS
This is the guy behind the VT grinds.In the last while he has been doing them under his own new company/name.
I have the VT stage II n/a cams,and love em,been in my GT for the last 3 years without issues.The only thing is,valve springs are needed.....aswell as a tune,but all aftermarket cams need,and should have a tune to them.

[Bullitt5339]

I would go with HiTechs or Modular Headshop's cams.

[306notchback]

Id go with stage 2 Hi techs, one of the best things with these is u dont have to change the valve springs like other cams!

[TGJ]

Nick @ Modular Head Shop( MHS ) has done a lot of research lately and a lot of different cams. He has found some very scary info regarding many of the aftermarket cams. Any cam with more than 230 intake duration installed at 110 intake centerline in PI Heads will have PTV contact. These cams need to be installed at 114. When installed at 114, they make less power than the smaller available aftermarket cams.

Popular Cams that are known with PTV contact are:

Comp 270
CMS/VT Stage 2 N/A
HiTech Stage 2 N/A

Personally, I would talk to Nick at MHS and find a cam from him that will work for you.

[scupking]

Originally Posted by 306notchback

Id go with stage 2 Hi techs, one of the best things with these is u dont have to change the valve springs like other cams!

+1 I love my Hi tech stage IIs.

[peepeeskillz]

not to hi-jack this thread or anything, but could you get a stage 2 cam like comp xtreme energy stage 2 cam, and not get the recommended things like gears and valve springs? they don't say required like stage 3 but just recommended.

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Originally Posted by TGJ

Nick @ Modular Head Shop( MHS ) has done a lot of research lately and a lot of different cams. He has found some very scary info regarding many of the aftermarket cams. Any cam with more than 230 intake duration installed at 110 intake centerline in PI Heads will have PTV contact. These cams need to be installed at 114. When installed at 114, they make less power than the smaller available aftermarket cams.

Popular Cams that are known with PTV contact are:

Comp 270
CMS/VT Stage 2 N/A
HiTech Stage 2 N/A

Personally, I would talk to Nick at MHS and find a cam from him that will work for you.

For everyone else, he's talking about Intake Lobe Center line and not the LSA you see advertised often. A lot of companies dont even release thier ILC.
Could you go into this more, TGJ? Even if in pm. I find this intriguing. I've seen VT stg 2's timed correctly w/out problems, and 270's degreed correctly without problems - but still wanna get all the info I can if there's something I'm missing.
Just as a critique:
Installing a 230 duration cam at 110 means the intake valve will close at the latest 45 degrees; and opens at 5 degrees (shouldn't be interfering on opening range, right?). You said you'll consequently need to install at 114. This doesn't make sense, 114 would cause the seat timing to be 1 and 49 degrees open/close which means the intake actually seats later causing interference to be more likely not less, right? With the theory that 45 degree seating is the limit against interference, that means at a 114 ILC you'd need to be as low as 222 intake to meet that limit while VT stg 2.5 blower cams have intake at a huge 228 (48 degrees seating) and I've never seen or heard of VT blower cams PTV'ing.

[stangGT97]

Originally Posted by CobraRed_96_GT

For everyone else, he's talking about Intake Lobe Center line and not the LSA you see advertised often. A lot of companies dont even release thier ILC.
Could you go into this more, TGJ? Even if in pm. I find this intriguing. I've seen VT stg 2's timed correctly w/out problems, and 270's degreed correctly without problems - but still wanna get all the info I can if there's something I'm missing.
Just as a critique:
Installing a 230 duration cam at 110 means the intake valve will close at the latest 45 degrees; and opens at 5 degrees (shouldn't be interfering on opening range). You said you'll consequently need to install at 114. This doesn't make sense, 114 would cause the seat timing to be 1 and 49 degrees open/close which means the intake actually seats later causing interference to be more likely not less, right? With the theory that 45 degree seating is the limit against interference, that means at a 114 ILC you'd need to be as low as 222 intake to meet that limit while VT stg 2.5 blower cams have intake at a huge 228 (48 degrees seating) and I've never seen or heard of VT blower cams PTV'ing.

I would also like to know more about this, for future reference

[navarro98gt]

Originally Posted by CobraRed_96_GT

For everyone else, he's talking about Intake Lobe Center line and not the LSA you see advertised often. A lot of companies dont even release thier ILC.
Could you go into this more, TGJ? Even if in pm. I find this intriguing. I've seen VT stg 2's timed correctly w/out problems, and 270's degreed correctly without problems - but still wanna get all the info I can if there's something I'm missing.
Just as a critique:
Installing a 230 duration cam at 110 means the intake valve will close at the latest 45 degrees; and opens at 5 degrees (shouldn't be interfering on opening range). You said you'll consequently need to install at 114. This doesn't make sense, 114 would cause the seat timing to be 1 and 49 degrees open/close which means the intake actually seats later causing interference to be more likely not less, right? With the theory that 45 degree seating is the limit against interference, that means at a 114 ILC you'd need to be as low as 222 intake to meet that limit while VT stg 2.5 blower cams have intake at a huge 228 (48 degrees seating) and I've never seen or heard of VT blower cams PTV'ing.

This might help....

ModularHeadShop 2V Cams FAQ

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Originally Posted by navarro98gt

This might help....

ModularHeadShop 2V Cams FAQ

It just doesn't make sense to me, maybe i'm missing something? It appears to be talking about LSA in relation to duration and ICL for exhuast valves, not just ICL - but he only mentions ICL. A higher ILC means the valve opens later and seats later, so how would a higher ICL be safer?

But i think I might have gotten what's he's saying if he's referring to the opening end of the valve - thus having peak cam lift earlier and kissing the piston on the piston's way down?

You have a 230/235 110LSA cam
at 110 ICL you have the intake opening at 5* before top dead center and closing at 45 degrees after bottom dead center. (So 45 degrees of crank rotation during the the upward movement of the piston and 5 degrees in which the valve is beginning to open before the piston is TDC). You change this to 106 and the intake begins opening at 9 degrees before top dead center (and seats 41 after BDC). So what he must mean is low ILC's make the valve open too early and thus PTV on the piston way down from TDC during intake stroke. This is hard for me to imagine, but would explain A LOT.
The limiting factor would then be (@ 230/110LSA/114ILC) 1 degree before TDC and anything higher would be PTV.

VT stage 2.5 blower cams have the intake opening 1 degree before TDC with a duration of 228 ILC of 114/LSA114
My custom VT blower cams for my PD blower are 222/114LSA/110ILC and 1 degree BTDC

But, then again my VT stage 1's are 225/109.5LSA/110.5ILC wich makes it 2* BTDC and no one PTV's on these, but that's just one degree difference.

[VEE EIGHT]

Another for the HiTechs.

[Ares]

Granted cam timing can be confusing as all hell. Once you start looking at it becomes easier to figure out.

Retarding the cam moves the intake valve opening event closer to TDC. Which gives less of a chance of the valve kissing the piston. Piston is closer to TDC and then heading back down as valve is opening. If your intake is advanced like me trying to get my cams installed at 110. Now they are opening the intake valve earlier as piston is coming up. Which in a mod motor there just isn't enough clearance with stock valves and pistons for the valve to open that early without some contact with piston. Especially with the higher duration alot of cams use.

Hitech stg 2(my set Comp ground one at 110 left cam and other at 112 right cam leaving me to figure out where to install)
234 dur @ .050 Intake
At 110 ICL opening is 7* BTDC, closes at 47* ABDC - PTV at this install point
At 112 ICL opening is 5* BTDC, closes at 49* ABDC - No PTV but too close for comfort
At 113 ICL opening is 4* BTDC, closes at 50* ABDC - No PTV and been safe enough for my liking and making good power still.

Again this is with my particuler engine.

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Originally Posted by Ares

Granted cam timing can be confusing as all hell. Once you start looking at it becomes easier to figure out.

Retarding the cam moves the intake valve opening event closer to TDC. Which gives less of a chance of the valve kissing the piston. Piston is closer to TDC and then heading back down as valve is opening. If your intake is advanced like me trying to get my cams installed at 110. Now they are opening the intake valve earlier as piston is coming up. Which in a mod motor there just isn't enough clearance with stock valves and pistons for the valve to open that early without some contact with piston. Especially with the higher duration alot of cams use.

Hitech stg 2(my set Comp ground one at 110 left cam and other at 112 right cam leaving me to figure out where to install)
234 dur @ .050 Intake
At 110 ICL opening is 7* BTDC, closes at 47* ABDC - PTV at this install point
At 112 ICL opening is 5* BTDC, closes at 49* ABDC - No PTV but too close for comfort
At 113 ICL opening is 4* BTDC, closes at 50* ABDC - No PTV and been safe enough for my liking and making good power still.

Again this is with my particuler engine.

Right, has to do with the opening time being too early BTDC. I was thinking it was hitting it on the way down tho, a few degrees is not enough travel to kiss the piston at TDC. As suggested by modularheadshop it's likely while the piston is on the way down 5-10 degrees after TDC.
But, like in your cams, if you have some serious overlap the scheduled is going to extend and likely be high like your 7 degrees BTDC - in which case I guess it could be hitting on the way up.

[TGJ]

Nick has some interesting threads at Modular Depot, Modular Fords, Modular Revolution and TCCOA regarding this as well to his FAQ which doesn't go into great detail.

[V_Eight]

Crower Stage 4s.

[hotstang_46]

Originally Posted by TGJ

Popular Cams that are known with PTV contact are:


CMS/VT Stage 2 N/A

wow, that's a new one. I've had none with mine nor the dozen or so people I know who have installed them over the years. You're not going to get PTV with the Vt stge II with a proper install and especially but not necessary a good degree. I can't even remember a thread on here, EVER, with a mention of that with this cam.

[40oz]

Originally Posted by TGJ

Nick has some interesting threads at Modular Depot, Modular Fords, Modular Revolution and TCCOA regarding this as well to his FAQ which doesn't go into great detail.

The problem is that without going into great detail, he's just another guy selling his own cams.

No matter how honorable his intentions, the fact that he stands to make money off of telling people other cams can cause issues calls into question his character. It's one thing to claim your cam makes more power or better drivability or whatever. It's another thing to make claims that competing products *will* cause issues.

Obviously a thing like a cam needs to be installed *properly* or it can/will cause the valves to hit the pistons. But I've met some of the guys at Hitech, have done work for them, and have a real hard time thinking they are ignorant of issues, much less careless.

So unless Nick at Modular Headshop is willing to go into detail, it's just underhanded tactics to sell his own cams. I'm not saying he is a bad guy, just he isn't giving people a chance to see anything but him knocking the competition. He's being unfair to himself.

I was just thinking this threads underscores a need for a comprehensive cam sticky to lay out the issues and proper way to degree a cam to avoid bad scenes like this thread is starting to get in my eyes.

I have no reason to think VT cams, Hitech cams, Modular headshop cams, and all others are not *ALL* worth the money. This isn't a zero-sum game. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than enough market to go around. One doesn't need to enter the market trashing the competition. How would you feel if you designed a cam for one of the other companies, and some guy at some shop you never heard of started telling people on the internet that your cam wil trash your head?

Most of us should know that a cam needs to be degreed to get the most out of it and to maximize the benefits. I'd have an easier time buying a cam from a shop that shares their knowledge about how to properly install it than one that says "All others will ruin your engine!"

I will still have a shop put it in, but a shop that will tell you how they do what they do will easily sway me to their side and convince me they have the knowledge worthy of my money. Vague warnings tell me the shop doesn't really understand what they do. Fair or not, it's their words and they should pick them more carefully.

Selling fear drives my dollars elsewhere. That said, I am NOT saying this Nick at Modular Headshop is a hack. I'm sure he knows his stuff and is more than willing to share it in person. Just let's stop with the vagueness and just say all but the mildest of cams need careful installation. I'm down with the whole "lift != power," but can we get beyond "all other cams will make you cry" BS?

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Originally Posted by 40oz

avoid bad scenes like this thread is starting to get in my eyes.

I don't really see this. We have one source saying X=PTV. I, and others, are asking for reasons, specifics. Pointed to some info which I tried to break down and refute based on my non biased (financially) perspective. Thread is not exactly doing anyone a disservice.

[40oz]

Originally Posted by CobraRed_96_GT

I don't really see this. We have one source saying X=PTV. I, and others, are asking for reasons, specifics. Pointed to some info which I tried to break down and refute based on my non biased (financially) perspective. Thread is not exactly doing anyone a disservice.

"In my eyes."

IMHO, I'd rather see specifics than hear about other threads on other forums, just like you. That's what I mean about "bad scene." Bad for Modular Headshop, not as in "soap opera."

I don't know that anything needs refuting. Anyone who has looked seriously into a driveway cam swap should know degreeing is highly recommended/mandatory. That's why I have an issue with the whole "PTV" thing.

And why I would like to see a concise and explanatory cam explanation and install sticky thread. There are enough good cam how-to's and degreeing threads that a knowledgeable member could be very helpful in bringing them together. If nothing else as a "why to degree" along with a "how to degree" type post.

I'm not looking for a how-to so I don't have to pay a shop, more as a "here's how it all works together" type thing. So I am a better, more informed consumer instead of an idiot buying "magic stuff."

[TGJ]

Going back, I know of at least 2 VT Stg 2 N/A cam installed cars that had PTV on the get go. Like I have always, said that was due to install. What has been a new thing is that VT Stg 2 N/A cammed cars with Comp springs were floating valves and then having PTV. These owners were blaming the Comp Springs. A few of them upgraded to Crower Springs and then it all happened again. It must be the springs...

I have seen a lot of videos of cammed 2V that have valve train noise. It is quite a common thing. I have always wondered what that noise is. One of the racers that ran VT Stg 2 N/A cams down in Texas, ran his car to 7000 RPM at the track. His car wasn't a daily driver and his car had valve train noise from the get go after the cam install. He tore the engine down to rebuild it with a higher compression ratio and he found something. All 8 Pistons had intake valve marks on them and was wondering what caused that. He was happier than a pig in **** that nothing was damaged. People said he had faulty Crower Springs that checked out fine and are currently in the new engine. On his new engine, he has valve reliefs cut into the pistons and he checked the timing and clearances, guess what no valvetrain noise either. Common thing with cars above, all had noisy valvetrain from the get go after the cam install. Really makes you wonder...

I personally run a big 2V cam and I have Comp Springs, but I do have valve reliefs and my cams were checked for clearances and degreed in. Strange I don't have any valvetrain noise. My built 2V runs quieter than my 3V.

Now Nick comes along and starts researching what others are actually timing their cams at and what kind of clearances they are seeing. Strangely enough, the clearances Nick is seeing and what others have seen is explaining why the cars above had PTV...

There is a few more VT cammed cars that had PTV and the owners are remaining silent about it. I have had a lot of heated debates in the past on this board with some of the people running VT cams, I know 2 of them lost their built engines because of PTV and they are remaining silent on it...

I learned something new. There is 2 versions of the Hi-Tech Stg 2 N/A cam. There was a revision to the cam about 11 months ago. The new Hi-Tech Stg 2 N/A cam, the timing specs have been retarded a bit. Why did they do that? Could Nick be right?