[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by SS02

^^Just heresay for now, But I mean you would have to expect a weight gain though, I mean Fords gonna put a beefer Tranny, Engine and a bigger brake Unit also im sure the suspension is going to get beefed up along with upgraded safety equipment to handle the increase and stress...Thats good for a good 200-300 lbs. Dosent mean that the Mustang is gonna suffer. Enginnering is what its all about right ? Albeit its still running low 13s with ease.

Well, the Nissan 370Z just lost 2xx lbs, and it meets safety standards, so I'm not going to buy the whole, "It has to meet safety standards" story if that's what Ford tries to sell. Safety standards or not, there is no excuse for a mid-sized car to weigh 4000 lbs.

Here's something to chew on. A 1971 Caprice weighed just over 4000 lbs. Ever seen the size of a 1971 Caprice? A 1966 Chevelle SS 396 ci weighed around 3300-3400 lbs. A 1962 Nova SS weighed 2700 lbs. They're all made of steel. A 1970 Nova SS weighed 2900-3100 lbs.

Safety or not, there's no way in Hell that with the use of today's "composite" materials and technology, a car shouldn't be safe unless it's tipping the scales at 4000 lbs. That's just ridiculous. I don't care how fast one of these high-horsepower 4000 lb cars is in a straight line. The roads bend, too. I'm gonna be really angry if I wind up stuck in some buzzy ricer because they're the only cars that are coming in at reasonable weights that aren't going to hinder their performance in the bends. IMO, the 370Z is the best affordable sports car on the planet. It makes 330 (or 350 hp in the Nismo) horses, and it weighs 3200 lbs. It's small, wide, and nimble.

No excuse for that 370Z's V6 to be making more power than "America's #1 Pony Car," either, but that's another discussion for another place.

Originally Posted by SS02

Yeah, its all here say....Ive just heard that in 2012 new safety regs come into play. Im no expert and it all could be false. Dunno...........AND YES YOUR MUSTANG RATED 5 STARS lol Apparently the reason the Camaro and Challenger came in so porky was because of all the Safty requirements they were going to need in the upcoming years. Again its all heresay, and again.....we only got 4 Stars ....(It was rigged)

Just because it got 4 stars doesn't mean it's a bad car. It just means it got 4 stars among cars its size. You could take a Chevy Aveo and it may get a 5-star crash rating, but that's among its class. A 4-star Camaro is still safer than a 5-star Aveo.

[SS02]

^^^ yep....I was just poking fun with Fast 05 ...... I hear what your saying, but the 370Z is a two seater also. The Infinite G35 weighs in around 3700lbs... Take the Taurus for example, when Ford added the Eco-Boost, the thing gained 300lbs, because of all the compotents to make it handle the additional Horsepower and most important...torque. I guess the question is, is the 5.0 worth the extra weight....my opinion is yes. If the Mustang comes in weighing 3700lbs I dont see a problem as long as it holds it well.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by SS02

^^^ yep....I was just poking fun with Fast 05

But I was trying to poke fun at you first

But yes, I agree the Mustang will gain some weight. I'm not an engineer and don't pretend to be one, so I can't speculate as to how much. I don't think it will gain as much as the Taurus SHO did, because the GT is already a pretty capable vehicle, but better breaks and a beefier transmission will add some weight.

[SS02]

So heres what it has to atleast have in 2012: For 2012 it needs side curtain airbags, roof reinforcements that hold 3x the cars weight, door reinforcements that hold 3x the cars weight and stability control. Im not sure if theres more than that.

[svttech76]

i am not so sure it's going to gain 200-300 pounds.. You guys are getting caught up in bigger motor displacement = more weight but what you are overlooking is the 3v modular 4.6 is HEAVY and this motor is going to be all aluminum.. external dimensions of the new motor will probably be similar to a modular


This engine might be LIGHTER than the 3v 4.6

transmission might be a bit heavier if it is the 6 speed and the rest of the car will probably stay the same so you might have the gt weight about the same as now.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by svttech76

i am not so sure it's going to gain 200-300 pounds.. You guys are getting caught up in bigger motor displacement = more weight but what you are overlooking is the 3v modular 4.6 is HEAVY and this motor is going to be all aluminum.. external dimensions of the new motor will probably be similar to a modular


This engine might be LIGHTER than the 3v 4.6

transmission might be a bit heavier if it is the 6 speed and the rest of the car will probably stay the same so you might have the gt weight about the same as now.

Isn't the 4.6L aluminum?

[SS02]

Aluminum Heads I know, but not sure if the block is cast iron....Thought only the 03-04 Cobras got the Cast Iron Block.

Also to reply to SVTTECH ...With the brembo Upgrade isnt that going to up the weight gain. Like I said I think its goin to push the 3700lb mark. I dont think its that big of deal, but I dont see it staying at the current weight. Just my opinion.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

Isn't the 4.6L aluminum?

Yes, the heads and block are aluminum. It was in a brochure for my 05 (back in the day) touting that it saves weight, which it does. SS02 is right about the brakes, but I don't see it adding anything significant, as we already got all the suspension upgrades for 2010 so the rest of the car will most likely go unchanged, not including the tranny, who knows what they'll throw in.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Fast05

Yes, the heads and block are aluminum. It was in a brochure for my 05 (back in the day) touting that it saves weight, which it does. SS02 is right about the brakes, but I don't see it adding anything significant, as we already got all the suspension upgrades for 2010 so the rest of the car will most likely go unchanged, not including the tranny, who knows what they'll throw in.

How strong is the 5spd that's in it now? Will it handle around 435-450 hp?

[SS02]

Originally Posted by Fast05

Yes, the heads and block are aluminum. It was in a brochure for my 05 (back in the day) touting that it saves weight, which it does. SS02 is right about the brakes, but I don't see it adding anything significant, as we already got all the suspension upgrades for 2010 so the rest of the car will most likely go unchanged, not including the tranny, who knows what they'll throw in.

A guy switched out his front Brembos on the Camaro and saved 100lbs, he couldnt believe it lol

[SS02]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

How strong is the 5spd that's in it now? Will it handle around 435-450 hp?

Handeling isnt an issue I think, Sustaining is the bigger issue....I think Ford will without a doubt have to upgrade the Tranny to a TR6060.

[Fast05]

Everything I've found online about the Tremec 3650 (current GT tranny) states it is rated at 360 LB FT of torque, which IMO, seems conservative. I know there are a lot of GTs out there with blowers on them making a lot more than that. Then again, who knows how well it puts up with the extra abuse depending on your driving habits, how often you race it, etc.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Fast05

Everything I've found online about the Tremec 3650 (current GT tranny) states it is rated at 360 LB FT of torque, which IMO, seems conservative. I know there are a lot of GTs out there with blowers on them making a lot more than that. Then again, who knows how well it puts up with the extra abuse depending on your driving habits, how often you race it, etc.

I would guess that if you're not constantly launching the car, it'll be ok. I'm not a huge drag-racer, so I'd probably be alright with it. I'm more of a "roll into the throttle" type of guy.

Is this current 5spd the same one from the last generation cars, because I'm pretty sure those transmissions were made from glass. I had two buddies, one with a '99 GT, and one with a '00 Cobra, and raced both of them on the highway. Oddly enough, they both blew their transmissions racing me. The guy with the 99 GT downshifted into 3rd from around 55 mph, and the other guy did the same from around 65 mph. I'm not sure whether the '00 Cobras had 5 spds or 6 spds.

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted by Fast05

Everything I've found online about the Tremec 3650 (current GT tranny) states it is rated at 360 LB FT of torque, which IMO, seems conservative. I know there are a lot of GTs out there with blowers on them making a lot more than that. Then again, who knows how well it puts up with the extra abuse depending on your driving habits, how often you race it, etc.

360 FTLB Tq is Crankshaft Rated BTW..
A friend of mine put heads and Cams on his 2007 GT and put 391 RWHP and 358 RWTQ thats more than 400 Crank Tq and he destroyed his 3650 in 5000 miles and 10 passes at the 1320. He is converting over to a 6060 this week. Here is the link to Dyno sheets and here is a link to his build

I finally killed my 5R55S with 320RWHP and 330 RWTQ so these are weak too.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

I would guess that if you're not constantly launching the car, it'll be ok. I'm not a huge drag-racer, so I'd probably be alright with it. I'm more of a "roll into the throttle" type of guy.

Is this current 5spd the same one from the last generation cars, because I'm pretty sure those transmissions were made from glass. I had two buddies, one with a '99 GT, and one with a '00 Cobra, and raced both of them on the highway. Oddly enough, they both blew their transmissions racing me. The guy with the 99 GT downshifted into 3rd from around 55 mph, and the other guy did the same from around 65 mph. I'm not sure whether the '00 Cobras had 5 spds or 6 spds.

The 05 and up had the 3650, I don't know what the previous years used. I think t45 but I'm sure I'm wrong I just pulled that one out of the air. All I can say is if we're getting 400 HP and TQ soon then we're gonna need a transmission to hold up. The 6 spd Tremec in the '03 Cobra would suffice unless their's something better nowadays.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Fast05

The 05 and up had the 3650, I don't know what the previous years used. I think t45 but I'm sure I'm wrong I just pulled that one out of the air. All I can say is if we're getting 400 HP and TQ soon then we're gonna need a transmission to hold up. The 6 spd Tremec in the '03 Cobra would suffice unless their's something better nowadays.

I don't think Ford was ever known for their strong transmissions; mostly the rears, I think.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by 2k05gt

360 FTLB Tq is Crankshaft Rated BTW..
A friend of mine put heads and Cams on his 2007 GT and put 391 RWHP and 358 RWTQ thats more than 400 Crank Tq and he destroyed his 3650 in 5000 miles and 10 passes at the 1320. He is converting over to a 6060 this week. Here is the link to Dyno sheets and here is a link to his build

I finally killed my 5R55S with 320RWHP and 330 RWTQ so these are weak too.

What do the Roush cars use? Their 427R is making much more than 360 hp.

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted by Fast05

The 05 and up had the 3650, I don't know what the previous years used. I think t45 but I'm sure I'm wrong I just pulled that one out of the air. All I can say is if we're getting 400 HP and TQ soon then we're gonna need a transmission to hold up. The 6 spd Tremec in the '03 Cobra would suffice unless their's something better nowadays.

The T-56 used in the 03-04 cobras has been succeeded by the Tremec TR-6060 transmission in many former T-56 applications, as well as applications requiring greater strength than the T-56 could offer.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

I don't think Ford was ever known for their strong transmissions; mostly the rears, I think.

The Termi Cobras were pretty under-rated and modded a lot and that tremec 6 spd in those seemed to get the job done.

Note: I just looked up specs on the Tremec T56 used in the 03 and 04 cobras, they were rated at 450 lb of tq. If it were my guess that would be the transmission to go with, seeing as how the new 5.0 will make about the same power the 4.6 did with the blower stock.

The 3650 weighs 120 LBS
The T56 weighs 130 LBS

10 LBS is not much to complain about there.

EDIT: The Tremec TR-6060 is rated at 600 LB FT, couldn't find the weight, but the internals are stronger.

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

What do the Roush cars use? Their 427R is making much more than 360 hp.

Roush cars are rated not by RWHP only Crank HP. The Roush Supercharger is built for a V6 so it's a low boost supercharger.

From Roush....
It says adds 115HP (to a 300hp car is 415 - 15% driveline loss = 353 RWHP)
also says adds 65tq (to a 320TQ car is 385 - 15% driveline loss = 327 RWTQ)

thats only 25 foot lbs of crank torque over the rating, I am not 100 % convinced that the roush charger made that.. (Not a fan of the roush charger)
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/fea...tos/index.html
look at the dyno numbers here...

Based on the acclaimed ROUSH Stage 3 Mustang, this version is slightly less in content but includes 100 percent of the fun factor. The 427R horsepower package is highlighted by the intercooled ROUSHcharger* system which adds 115 horsepower and 65 lb-ft of torque to the base Ford 4.6L, 3-valve V8 powertrain system. The additional power upgrade comes via a ROUSH-engineered ECM calibration which has been specially-tuned to work in harmony with the different exhaust system used on the vehicle.

[blacksheep06]

The mustang needs it's very own platform instead of borrowing one from a family sedan.

The car is just too big to began with. Owning both an sn95 and a s197 I can tell you I would much rather have the sn95's dimensions and weight. I don't need better ride quality and handleing if I have to add weight to get it.

Once you start adding larger motors, brakes, FI, intercoolers, etc, to an already fat ass car you end up with a REALLY fat ass car. I'll bet a DOHC 5.0 '11 will go right around 3700 lbs. Too heavy. The termi cobras weighed 3600 + but they had a supercharger/intercooler and beefier brakes,etc.

I love the retro s197 design and the 3v 4.6 but I would have rather had it on the sn95 platform. Maybe that's just me.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by blacksheep06

The mustang needs it's very own platform instead of borrowing one from a family sedan.

The car is just too big to began with. Owning both an sn95 and a s197 I can tell you I would much rather have the sn95's dimensions and weight. I don't need better ride quality and handleing if I have to add weight to get it.

Once you start adding larger motors, brakes, FI, intercoolers, etc, to an already fat ass car you end up with a REALLY fat ass car. I'll bet a DOHC 5.0 '11 will go right around 3700 lbs. Too heavy. The termi cobras weighed 3600 + but they had a supercharger/intercooler and beefier brakes,etc.

I love the retro s197 design and the 3v 4.6 but I would have rather had it on the sn95 platform. Maybe that's just me.

And what Ford would say is that it's not cost-effective to have a new platform for a single vehicle.

If I recall, Ford has a habit of keeping the Mustang on outdated platforms. It wasn't until 2005 that they replaced the Fairmont's platform. By that time, that platform was probably nearly 25 years old. The platform in use now is off of that Lincoln MKS or whatever it was called, and it's "only" about 13 years old.

I don't know what the problem is. The import cars pick up slight weight gains, but for some reason, every domestic gains 300 lbs with every generation. The Nissan 370Z actually lost 200 lbs, while picking up updated safety equipment and better all-around performance. I'm stumped as to why the domestics can't do the same.

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

And what Ford would say is that it's not cost-effective to have a new platform for a single vehicle.

If I recall, Ford has a habit of keeping the Mustang on outdated platforms. It wasn't until 2005 that they replaced the Fairmont's platform. By that time, that platform was probably nearly 25 years old. The platform in use now is off of that Lincoln MKS or whatever it was called, and it's "only" about 13 years old.

I don't know what the problem is. The import cars pick up slight weight gains, but for some reason, every domestic gains 300 lbs with every generation. The Nissan 370Z actually lost 200 lbs, while picking up updated safety equipment and better all-around performance. I'm stumped as to why the domestics can't do the same.

The S197 platform is loosely based off Ford's DEW98 platform used in the Lincoln LS, and was originally designed to ride on the DEW Lite platform, however, production would have been more expensive. The DEW98 platform consists of 4 wheel independent double wishbone suspension whereas the S197 platform consists of macpherson struts and a solid axle = less money to build. The Mustang is the only car that rides on the S197 platform, and it is technically "new" since 2005, because the DEW platform was modified so heavily that there are few carry-over parts.

The SN95 platform was first used in the Mustang in 1979, so yes it was 25 years old, and this platform was shared with over 10 different cars, but after 1992, the Mustang was the only car still used on this platform, and as we all know 2004 was the last year for the Fox platform.

Honestly, having owned both, the S197 rides and handles much better than the SN95. And the 2010 really didn't have any significant weight gain over the 2005-09 Mustang, so when the drivetrain and brakes are upgraded that will be where any extra weight comes from. The 370Z is a great vehicle, but it's more of a niche vehicle being that it only has 2 seats and doesn't have a price range from 22k to 48k. And being that the 370Z is only a 2 seater with a V6, I'd say even it is heavy for its size tipping the scales at over 3,200 lbs, but it's lighter and smaller therefore more nimble.

[Top Speed]

Originally Posted by Fast05

The S197 platform is loosely based off Ford's DEW98 platform used in the Lincoln LS, and was originally designed to ride on the DEW Lite platform, however, production would have been more expensive. The DEW98 platform consists of 4 wheel independent double wishbone suspension whereas the S197 platform consists of macpherson struts and a solid axle = less money to build. The Mustang is the only car that rides on the S197 platform, and it is technically "new" since 2005, because the DEW platform was modified so heavily that there are few carry-over parts.

The SN95 platform was first used in the Mustang in 1979, so yes it was 25 years old, and this platform was shared with over 10 different cars, but after 1992, the Mustang was the only car still used on this platform, and as we all know 2004 was the last year for the Fox platform.

Honestly, having owned both, the S197 rides and handles much better than the SN95. And the 2010 really didn't have any significant weight gain over the 2005-09 Mustang, so when the drivetrain and brakes are upgraded that will be where any extra weight comes from. The 370Z is a great vehicle, but it's more of a niche vehicle being that it only has 2 seats and doesn't have a price range from 22k to 48k. And being that the 370Z is only a 2 seater with a V6, I'd say even it is heavy for its size tipping the scales at over 3,200 lbs, but it's lighter and smaller therefore more nimble.

Then it can be argued that Porsche 911s are only "niche vehicles" also, and they're 2-seaters. The 997 Turbo weighs in at 35xx lbs. The Lamborghini Gallardo weighs in at 35xx lbs. The Lamborghini Murcielago weighs in at 3900-4100 lbs. The Bugatti Veyron weighs 4400 lbs!

Anyway, yes, that's the vehicle I meant; the Lincoln LS (I couldn't think of the name of it...).

[Fast05]

Originally Posted by Top Speed

Then it can be argued that Porsche 911s are only "niche vehicles" also, and they're 2-seaters. The 997 Turbo weighs in at 35xx lbs. The Lamborghini Gallardo weighs in at 35xx lbs. The Lamborghini Murcielago weighs in at 3900-4100 lbs. The Bugatti Veyron weighs 4400 lbs!

Well then I'll sleep better knowing my Mustang isn't the only fat girl in the club