[Frankenstang838]

I was with my dad test driving a truck today. It was an 01 F-150 Crew Cab 2WD with a 5.4L. That thing was a beast. What are the do's and don'ts if i decided to change directions and do a 5.4 swap out of a truck? Are the intakes the same? will my computer run it? Will my tranny bolt up? Have any of you guys done this? Just wanting some input, cause i think it wouldn't be a bad idea if it wouldn't require changing alot of stuff.

[trinity_gt]

Originally Posted by Frankenstang838

Are the intakes the same?

I don't believe so.

will my computer run it?

You'd probably need a custom tune to get it running right.

Will my tranny bolt up?

Yes.

Keep in mind that the 5.4L uses a different, taller block to allow for the longer stroke. This moves the cylinder heads up and outward making things a tight fit. A standard 4.6L intake manifold won't work as the cylinder head ports end up further apart due to the taller deck height. You might find some adapter plates to make it work but this will just move the intake even higher. There may be hood interference issues then. There's probably enough slack in the wiring harness or it can be made by customizing loom and wire-management components.

The exhaust won't just bolt up since the manifolds are higher and further apart so some customization will be needed there too.

[VEE EIGHT]

Not really worth it IMO. You don't get much more HP (although the TQ increase is nice). If you were going to swap the 4.6 for a 5.4, I'd make sure it was a DOHC 5.4

[fast97gt]

a navigater 5.4 is the ****z, i wanna do it to mine but its time consuming and rite now my mustang is my dd, my other dd is being borrowed by my sister and law

[BurningRubber]

You'll either need intake adapters (cramps power, bad gas mileage), or the HPS 4.6 to 5.4 intake manifold (about $600?), your 4.6 computer will run the 5.4 with a tune, you need to widen your mid-pipe so it can fit to the exhaust manifolds. That's the jist of it, but there is some other stuff to address.

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

I know a guy who did the swap. his is in an 02 gt, stock truck manifolds, he went with the adapter plates for the pi intake. everything else was stock, and he laid down 250hp but 376ft! but as soon as it hit 4500rpm the power fell straight off. I wonder what his car could really make if it was set up right. but he said it was noticeably faster with the 4.6 cause it would make more hp and rev out longer.

[Pearl02]

Originally Posted by Mr. Rustypwnz

I know a guy who did the swap. his is in an 02 gt, stock truck manifolds, he went with the adapter plates for the pi intake. everything else was stock, and he laid down 250hp but 376ft! but as soon as it hit 4500rpm the power fell straight off. I wonder what his car could really make if it was set up right. but he said it was noticeably faster with the 4.6 cause it would make more hp and rev out longer.

I'm not surprised. The cam profiles are different for the truck. It's designed for low end torque which is what a truck needs to pull and haul. It's not designed to spin up to 6 grand. The owner of a local Mustang tuning place here in KC transplanted a V10 from a F250 or 350 into his 97 Stang. I don't know how he did it. It's very inpressive. When I last talk to him, he was trying to find a cam that performed better past 4500 rpm's. Pearl02.

[Frankenstang838]

humm...i think i'll just stick with my lil 4six for right now. it just sounded like a neat idea. lol thanks guys.

[TGJ]

First off, the 5.4 2V and 4.6 2V have the EXACT SAME CAMSHAFTS.

Second off, the 5.4 2V is not a performance engine. Even with the best parts and setup properly, it is out of breath by 5000 RPM. I am tired of explaining why the 5.4 2V is not a performance engine and never will be, do a search on the subject or accept the 5.4 2V for what it is, a truck engine...

[Winters98GT]

Originally Posted by TGJ

First off, the 5.4 2V and 4.6 2V have the EXACT SAME CAMSHAFTS.

Second off, the 5.4 2V is not a performance engine. Even with the best parts and setup properly, it is out of breath by 5000 RPM. I am tired of explaining why the 5.4 2V is not a performance engine and never will be, do a search on the subject or accept the 5.4 2V for what it is, a truck engine...

Where is our favorite friend to chime in on this topic? I heard he gave up and went FI.

[TGJ]

Originally Posted by Winters98GT

Where is our favorite friend to chime in on this topic? I heard he gave up and went FI.

Last I read on Bill was that he gave up on his 5.4 3V N/A project and has a running 4.6L 4V FI car. I haven't read any updates after that.

[98COBRA281]

^ ive seen some of those threads........

yeah, 5.4's are low end tq monsters, great if you towing a boat, or mudding, but in a car you want high rpm power..........

[Gearbanger 101]

Originally Posted by Pearl02

I'm not surprised. The cam profiles are different for the truck. It's designed for low end torque which is what a truck needs to pull and haul. It's not designed to spin up to 6 grand.

As far as I know, all of the factory PI heads use the same cam profiles. What hurts you is when you try to make 330ci breath through the same intake as that was originally designed for 281ci. The 4.6L car engine has a long runner, small diameter intake that is made to promote torque in the lower and mid regions to make of for the loss recognized with its small displacement. Going with addapter plates adds another inch to the already long runner length, which increases the problem. Plenty of torque down low, with no gain in horsepower.

Also, the 5.4L still sufferes from the small bore and makes up for its displacement with a longer stroke. Great for torque, but really isn't going to do anything to promote deep breathing at high RPM. Unless you're running some form of forced induction on the 5.4L engine, you're not going to see any substantial gain in usable horsepower.

But...when you do add forced inductions, you're rewarded with plenty of both. The Roushcharger kit for my 5.4L 3V engine promotes 445hp and 500lbs/ft with only 5-6psi....and that's one of the more conservative Positive Displacement kits on the market. That's unheard of power levels for a 4.6L....it doesn't matter how many valves its sporting.

[Frankenstang838]

Originally Posted by TGJ

First off, the 5.4 2V and 4.6 2V have the EXACT SAME CAMSHAFTS.

Second off, the 5.4 2V is not a performance engine. Even with the best parts and setup properly, it is out of breath by 5000 RPM. I am tired of explaining why the 5.4 2V is not a performance engine and never will be, do a search on the subject or accept the 5.4 2V for what it is, a truck engine...

Cool, i really haven't planned on a power adder other than Nitrous, or a swap for that matter. But appearently a 5.4 swap isn't a good idea for a car unless ya plan on boosting. I really like the whole pos/neg thing goin on....puts things into better perspective. i like TGJ's the best tho.....he's clearly fed up with puttin his .02 in on this subject....but blunt is good.

[mransr]

OTOH...how often do you hit 5000+ RPM in a daily driven street car?

sure a 5.4 won't make the dyno numbers to impress the internet experts, but all that very usable, low end torque could make for a pretty entertaining street car...

now I've never driven a 5.4 Mustang (and I suspect that's true for most folks here)...but 'back in the day' I had a Galaxie with a 400M and that has the same "not as much horse power as the 351" rep as a 5.4 has...but in real world, day to day driving, that car surprised the heck out of people with all it's torque

[ChillPhatCat]

Originally Posted by mransr

OTOH...how often do you hit 5000+ RPM in a daily driven street car?

sure a 5.4 won't make the dyno numbers to impress the internet experts, but all that very usable, low end torque could make for a pretty entertaining street car...

now I've never driven a 5.4 Mustang (and I suspect that's true for most folks here)...but 'back in the day' I had a Galaxie with a 400M and that has the same "not as much horse power as the 351" rep as a 5.4 has...but in real world, day to day driving, that car surprised the heck out of people with all it's torque

In the real world, races are won with higher HP/weight and better drivers... on the street, torque is mostly irrelevent within reason. A small V8 at the same power level as a big v8 with more torque won't really feel any slower when driven well. I used to have a '74 Camaro (~4000 lbs) with a 460 big block... about 375-400 Hp and ~500 ft-lbs of torque. The thing was a monster, but all that torque really did for it was burn the ever loving piss out of the tires. I'm sure it was marginally faster than my Mustang, probably a mid 13 car... not enough of a difference to really be felt.

What I'm trying to get at is that it had a good 200 ft-lbs of torque on the mustang (8 lbs per lb-ft versus 10.67), but it was only marginally faster, and when you get down to it, both cars could launch just about as hard as each other... the '74 would burn the tires if you punched it @ 40 MPH in 2nd (TH350), but that's really the only difference...

[Gearbanger 101]

Originally Posted by mransr

'back in the day' I had a Galaxie with a 400M and that has the same "not as much horse power as the 351" rep as a 5.4 has...but in real world, day to day driving, that car surprised the heck out of people with all it's torque

Surprised people with it low end torque I don't doubt, but in the end it was still an 18-second car.

The point is, you need to strike a balance of both in order to make a fast car. My car makes diesel like torque (465lbs/ft....430lbs/ft of which, is seen as low as 2,000RPM) but relatively sedate horsepower levels by comparison, which is why it runs high-12's/low-13's instead of low-11's.

[mransr]

again...there isn't much doubt that a built 4.6 is faster than an equivalent 5.4 on the track...but for a car that is seldom, if ever, on a track, I'm just saying that a 5.4 might be a reasonable choice for someone interested just having a fun, low-buck street car...

and I know the 5.4 trucks are faster than the 4.6 trucks...


(BTW some guy named Carroll Shelby once said: "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." ...although it should probably have been "a broad powerband wins races", rather than just torque, but that wouldn't have been as catchy a quote )

[Gearbanger 101]

Originally Posted by mransr

again...there isn't much doubt that a built 4.6 is faster than an equivalent 5.4 on the track...but for a car that is seldom, if ever, on a track, I'm just saying that a 5.4 might be a reasonable choice for someone interested just having a fun, low-buck street car...

I guess it all depends on your definition of fun. If burning tires and sliding the rear end around is your thing, then yes....I'd say a 5.4L under the hood would be a lot of fun.

If getting walked by bolt on 4.6L cars after the first 500ft and adding unnecessary weight to the nose of your vehicle (negatively affecting braking and handling) isn't your bag, then I would probably advise against it.

[wmburns]

For the average joe, installing a 5.4 is a LOT of work. Sure it can be done. I have read several post regarding it. I also think it is telling that the cars are SOLD after doing sooo much work.

If it was up to me, I spend the $$'s on a name brand super charger kit. It will bolt up and will work as advertised.

If you had $$'s to burn, I suspect the breathing problem could be solved by a supercharger. But then way not build a stroker 4.6? If that is not enough, add a supercharger. Again, not tons of custom work with the possibility of a less than desireable outcome.

[TGJ]

Originally Posted by wmburns

For the average joe, installing a 5.4 is a LOT of work. Sure it can be done. I have read several post regarding it. I also think it is telling that the cars are SOLD after doing sooo much work.

If it was up to me, I spend the $$'s on a name brand super charger kit. It will bolt up and will work as advertised.

If you had $$'s to burn, I suspect the breathing problem could be solved by a supercharger. But then way not build a stroker 4.6? If that is not enough, add a supercharger. Again, not tons of custom work with the possibility of a less than desireable outcome.

A 5.4 is *technically* a stroked 4.6. They share the exact same pistons. Stroking a 4.6 and staying N/A brings the exact same breathing problems that the 5.4 has with the exception of the extra weight on the nose.

Just some food for thought. A comparison done a few years ago using completely stock parts and staying with the stock compression ratio, the 5.0L stroker LOST 17 RWHP and saw a 12 RWTQ gain. The power/torque band was moved lower in the RPM band. The 4.6L made more RWHP and RWTQ after 3500 RPM.

Personally if you want an increase in displacement with desirable gains especially if staying N/A with a modular V8, then the ONLY way to do it is with a larger bore.

Even though I have a N/A Big-Bore 4.6L( 5.0L ), it would be far easier to see a gain in HP with a SC and it is far more cost effective.

[Pearl02]

Originally Posted by Gearbanger 101

As far as I know, all of the factory PI heads use the same cam profiles. What hurts you is when you try to make 330ci breath through the same intake as that was originally designed for 281ci. The 4.6L car engine has a long runner, small diameter intake that is made to promote torque in the lower and mid regions to make of for the loss recognized with its small displacement. Going with addapter plates adds another inch to the already long runner length, which increases the problem. Plenty of torque down low, with no gain in horsepower.

Also, the 5.4L still sufferes from the small bore and makes up for its displacement with a longer stroke. Great for torque, but really isn't going to do anything to promote deep breathing at high RPM. Unless you're running some form of forced induction on the 5.4L engine, you're not going to see any substantial gain in usable horsepower.

But...when you do add forced inductions, you're rewarded with plenty of both. The Roushcharger kit for my 5.4L 3V engine promotes 445hp and 500lbs/ft with only 5-6psi....and that's one of the more conservative Positive Displacement kits on the market. That's unheard of power levels for a 4.6L....it doesn't matter how many valves its sporting.

Sorry if I was wrong about the cam profiles. I was just going off of what someone else told me. The owner of the V10 Stang did tell me he needed a better performing cam. Pearl02.

[mransr]

Originally Posted by Gearbanger 101

I guess it all depends on your definition of fun. If burning tires and sliding the rear end around is your thing, then yes....I'd say a 5.4L under the hood would be a lot of fun.

If getting walked by bolt on 4.6L cars after the first 500ft and adding unnecessary weight to the nose of your vehicle (negatively affecting braking and handling) isn't your bag, then I would probably advise against it.

ahh...never mind,...I was just trying to get across that not everybody has the same goals and in some cases a 5.4 might not be a horrible choice...but I suppose the interwebz isn't the best place for suggesting something different than what "everybody knows"

[Gearbanger 101]

Originally Posted by mransr

ahh...never mind,...I was just trying to get across that not everybody has the same goals and in some cases a 5.4 might not be a horrible choice...but I suppose the interwebz isn't the best place for suggesting something different than what "everybody knows"

Don't stress it man. I'm not dogging on you for thinking outside the box. I'm just making sure anyone thinking of doing it is aware of and has all the variables covered.

[billfisher]

Originally Posted by Winters98GT

Where is our favorite friend to chime in on this topic? I heard he gave up and went FI.

never gave up on anything. i needed better gas mileage. of course the turbo 4v makes more power.