I thought it looked like fun. I was searching for heli videos cause I wanted to get a real RC copter instead of the little co-axial one I have and stumbled across that vid.
Should see the one I just ordered. Cant wait for it to get hear so I can tear some sky up!
This is almost identical to the one I ordered. The one I am getting has the newer gyro and radio plus a full carbon fibre frame.
How much does one of those run? Ive always wanted to get one.
You sitting down??
The biggest one I have will run you ~$1,000-$1,500
Batteries for it will runn ~$125-$300 a pack
Radio will run $300
The mid size ones I have will run you ~$800-$1,000
Batteries for it will run ~$50-~200 a pack
Small ones will run ~$400-$600
Batteries for it will run ~$20-$100 a pack
These are all quality kits though. You can definitely get into it for cheaper, but part support is difficult, part quality is compromised and upgrades are minimal. There are a ton of "Clones" out there. For example, Lazer's "Shark" is a clone of the Align Trex....the smaller ones I have.
You can definitely find cheap stuff in this hobby, but you tend to get what you pay for.
Well I would love a T-rex but cant afford something like that. I was just going to spend $250 on a lesser machine and found the Art-Tech 450 and liked it. Comes with everything I need and two batteries for under $400. I can use T-rex blades and belts and gears so parts support is excellent.
And to me a collective/pitch heli that can fly tail down, upside down, barrel roll, instantly flip itself and just do crap that appears to defy they laws of physics then I will call it a 3D.
It has a 3750kw motor (brushless outrunner) and a 30a ESC so it should run pretty good.
One thing is for sure, it is 100x more capeable then I am. It will be quite some time before I have the nards to fly it like that. I do know I wont be able to just hover it there for several batteries like the RC places reccomend. Ill hover it for the first battery and as long as I can controll a stable hover then the next battery will be that heli flying across 40 acres at some serious speed.
Doc....that video is quite misleading. I remember looking at that one as well when I picked up 2 of those kits thinking they would be GREAT.
They function very well in very tame hovering and simple forward flight, but beyond that, they aren't very good.
I can do pretty much everything in that video that the HBKII is doing. I can do most of it pretty easily with my Trex's and larger helis....but I can't get the HBKII to do it.
I can't even get the HBKII to do clean tight flips and rolls....and basic inverted gets hairy.
There is just to much flex and slop in the all plastic (cheap plastic) head and frames...
The HBKII's are decent cheap entry level, but it's misleading to believe that they are inherently capable of that type of flight......
Well I would love a T-rex but cant afford something like that. I was just going to spend $250 on a lesser machine and found the Art-Tech 450 and liked it. Comes with everything I need and two batteries for under $400. I can use T-rex blades and belts and gears so parts support is excellent.
And to me a collective/pitch heli that can fly tail down, upside down, barrel roll, instantly flip itself and just do crap that appears to defy they laws of physics then I will call it a 3D.
It has a 3750kw motor (brushless outrunner) and a 30a ESC so it should run pretty good.
One thing is for sure, it is 100x more capeable then I am. It will be quite some time before I have the nards to fly it like that. I do know I wont be able to just hover it there for several batteries like the RC places reccomend. Ill hover it for the first battery and as long as I can controll a stable hover then the next battery will be that heli flying across 40 acres at some serious speed.
I think you need to reign in your expectations a bit.
I can guarantee you, if you don't have any experience with a collective pitch (CP) helicopter, you won't be in a controlled hover for much more 10 seconds at a time, and that will no doubt take you many, many battery packs to get to.....
3D flying, defined by the community, is flying in a manner that is requiring constant inputs from all four axis. A simple flip or roll is only requiring input on the pitch axis and the forward cyclic. A piro flip, on the other hand, is requiring constant tail input, constant collective input, and constant pitch cylic and roll cyclic.
I can not stress how patient you have to be and how important it is to take things REALLY REALLY slow when starting. It is incredibly important that you understand how to setup a rotor head. It is incredibly important that you understand your radio settings.
Google "RADDS school of flight" and give some thought to following this process for learning to fly. It's slow, it's tedious and it's boring....but it does teach you control and the fundamentals.
I can't stress enough how HARD learning to fly these things are at first. Once you get comfortable with the basics, it becomes easier, but learning the fundamentals of hovering and orientation is a very frustratingly difficult thing to do......especially by yourself without any prior experience.
You are obviously very knowledgeable in this and I believe ya. Chances are my first flight may cost me $40 (average repair cost) and the second and third too. Yeah I have had some serious RC stuff my whole life but never anything this complex. And I know that because I can fly my Axe CX great doesnt mean I can fly this new heli worth a damn but I have been playing with the sim software and watched several videos on how to fly them and just feel confident I will do well.
I am going to do my first few flights in zero wind and in the middle of my 40 acres that is completly clear of everything so that should help a little.
I was looking for a simpler machine but knew I would get bored quickly if it wasnt fast and couldnt do cool stuff so I went ahead and got something that is beyond my current abilities. The big reason for getting this Heli and ordering it from where I did was because I have spoke to Pete many times and he is going to set it up and trim it out for me. He is going to have it setup for novice flight in regular idle mode and gave me some throttle pitch curves that he has used for that specific heli with that motor and pinion option as I get better.
Now I realize I am gonna need to aquire new stuff to as I crash it. Gonna need a blade balencer and a RPM tool to check head speed as I change stuff. This heli is supposed to be good for 3000 rpm head speed but will be 2100 (I think) set up out of the box.
Its just going to be alot of practice I guess. I may only hover it for the first ten packs but I bet I can hold it pretty still for over ten seconds before I kill the first battery. I am going to have to get a better charger right away too. The one it comes with can only do an amp so it will take apx 2 hours to charge each battery if I drain them to 35-40% and I am going to want to fly more then 20 minutes per time I bring it out. There are some 11.1v 2500mah 25c batteries on ebay for $18 shipped new right now. I know they are not great batteries but I may get a few of them so I can have more fun.
Yeah, I can understand the limits of the one I have. It is quite touchy and not the most stable creature in the world.
I agree about learning to fly them. I do good to get a stable hover for the entire life of the battery. And when I mean stable hover, I mean within a 1ft box.
Sure I could just lift way up and try to fly around and act like I know what I'm doing, but odds are its gonna come crashing down sooner than later.
You are obviously very knowledgeable in this and I believe ya. Chances are my first flight may cost me $40 (average repair cost) and the second and third too. Yeah I have had some serious RC stuff my whole life but never anything this complex. And I know that because I can fly my Axe CX great doesnt mean I can fly this new heli worth a damn but I have been playing with the sim software and watched several videos on how to fly them and just feel confident I will do well.
I am going to do my first few flights in zero wind and in the middle of my 40 acres that is completly clear of everything so that should help a little.
Cool. Didn't realize you had time with a CX and with a Sim. VERY good ways to start getting a grasp of the controls. Collective Pitch helis fly VERY different, but experience with anything is relavant and will do worlds to at least clam the nerves a little bit.
Having a lot of space is good, in as far as the risk of things happening if/when you lose control. But you should really be focusing on controlling the helicopter in a 6' foot box. Draw a 6' box in your head and fly in it....if you break out of that box...land, redraw the box in your head and try again.
The most important skill you learn is to have a "safe" hover in an orientation that your comfortable with...usually with the tail pointing to you...so that the heli responds 1:1 with the cyclic. (forward is forward, back is back, right is right, left is left)
Being able to control the heli is small areas is very important when learning to transition from fast forward flight to a hover and back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserSVT
I was looking for a simpler machine but knew I would get bored quickly if it wasnt fast and couldnt do cool stuff so I went ahead and got something that is beyond my current abilities. The big reason for getting this Heli and ordering it from where I did was because I have spoke to Pete many times and he is going to set it up and trim it out for me. He is going to have it setup for novice flight in regular idle mode and gave me some throttle pitch curves that he has used for that specific heli with that motor and pinion option as I get better.
Having someone help you with setup is a very good thing. If you can, also get him to help EXPLAIN how to do the setup. It's important to know that stuff. It helps figure out problems, it helps understand why something is happening...and it helps after a crash!!!!
The heli you got should be a good starter. It's much better than the HBKII that I learned on. It's basically a TRex 450 clone....as you break stuff, put in Align parts. While Align isn't the greatest quality itself, it is going to be better than the stock stuff your starting with....and decent priced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserSVT
Now I realize I am gonna need to aquire new stuff to as I crash it. Gonna need a blade balencer and a RPM tool to check head speed as I change stuff. This heli is supposed to be good for 3000 rpm head speed but will be 2100 (I think) set up out of the box.
You don't need too much to get started. In early learning crashes...the most likely thing to break are the main gears, the tail blades, the main blades, the main shaft and the feathering shaft (small shaft that attaches the blades together) Get a crash kit of those parts, and you'll be ok. Also, don't fall for the trap of Fiberglass or plastic blades.....they fly like crap, are heavy, and typically do more damage to OTHER items in a crash rather than breaking. Use some wood blades until your skilled enough to make carbon fiber blades cost effective. A set of Align 325mm woodens are only ~$10.
Blade balancer is nice, but not needed. Actually, with 325mm blades, you can get by with a simple bolt. Balancing the 325mm isn't as important as it is with larger helis. I rarely balance my 325mm anymore. My 600mm blades, Absolutely.
You don't need a tach either, not for just starting. You can just do gear calculations and figure it out close enough. You really only need a tach for nitro helis, because your relying on an electric control to throttle the motor....and electric heli has a very finite gear limiting speed. It's a simple calculation:
[(KV of the motor)*(Avg voltage of the batter)* (pinion gear teeth)] / Main gear teeth
for example. Your running a 3750kv motor, a 3cell battery and I'll assume a 150 tooth main gear. I'll guess a 12T pinion
(3750 * 11.1 * 12)/150 = 3,330 RPM.
That's 3,330 RPM maximum given that setup. There is typically a 10%-15% efficiency loss. After that, it's a 1:1 conversion to your throttle curve. If your running 80% on your throttle curve, it will be 80% of the maximum headspeed. See...simple.
For learning purposes, I'd stick in the 2,500-2,800 RPM. Headspeed helps stablize the heli, but makes it more twichy as well....the trick is finding a sweet spot where you like it.
The one piece of equipment that is important and you should pick up is a pitch guage. It is important to know how to use one and how to verify the head setup. Making sure you know what your max and min pitch is important, as well as making sure that the pitch of the blades matches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserSVT
Its just going to be alot of practice I guess. I may only hover it for the first ten packs but I bet I can hold it pretty still for over ten seconds before I kill the first battery. I am going to have to get a better charger right away too. The one it comes with can only do an amp so it will take apx 2 hours to charge each battery if I drain them to 35-40% and I am going to want to fly more then 20 minutes per time I bring it out. There are some 11.1v 2500mah 25c batteries on ebay for $18 shipped new right now. I know they are not great batteries but I may get a few of them so I can have more fun.
Dude, If I lived near you, I'd bet you a beer against that one. Your going to be surprised just how LONG 10 seconds can be with you get it in the air for the first time. Everybody struggles at first....everybody. Don't worry about it....just be persistent. But, if you do manage to make it for more than 10s...Great....just, and this is important possibly the most important piece of advice...DON'T PUSH TOO HARD!!!! Listen to yourself. If your struggling with focus...STOP. If your just can't feel it...STOP. Keeping a heli in the air is an incredibly mental task. If your head isn't in the right place...STOP. I, and many others have learned that the hard way. "One last flight...." becomes the Heli equivalent of "Hey, yall, look at this!!!"
Batteries!!!! Great final point. Brand name battery's are good. They are a more know quantity and they usually carry a warranty. But DAMNIT they are expensive. Don't need them. Especially if your learning.
Cheap batteries will be fine for you. Hell, they are fine for me. They may not have as much "punch" or they may die quicker than others....but they will work, and be much cheaper!!!!
Forgive me if you know this, but I'll go over "C" ratings quickly....cause it's important with LiPos, which can be dangerous. A "C" rating refers to the current that the battery can deal with...both discharge and charge. A "C" is equal to the amp-hours of the battery...the capacity. in a 3S 2100 mAh battery, 1 C = 2.1 amps. So, a battery that is a 3s 2500 mAh 25C battery, can discharge 62.5 amps continously (2.5*25). The higher the "C" rating the more "Punch" a battery will have.
You want to stick with 20C or higher in the heli your getting. Make sure they are 20C or higher. Actually, you want to have a battery that can do 50 amps....which translates to ~20C or so.
Charging. You don't really want to charge any greater than 1C....that means for your 2500mAh battery, you want to charge at 2.5 amps...which means it will only take an hour. You can charge higher, but higher charging rate increased internal temperature and that's what kills batteries. If you get a smart charger, you can usually tell it what "C" to charge at. I typically do 1-2C for most of my batteries
Finally, Ebay isn't a bad place to get batteries. If you want to order several batteries, here is where I pick up most of mine. They are very cheap for what they are...but there is shipping costs from China. Works out if your ordering several...but not cost effective if your only getting one or two.
Yeah, I can understand the limits of the one I have. It is quite touchy and not the most stable creature in the world.
I agree about learning to fly them. I do good to get a stable hover for the entire life of the battery. And when I mean stable hover, I mean within a 1ft box.
Sure I could just lift way up and try to fly around and act like I know what I'm doing, but odds are its gonna come crashing down sooner than later.
Been there....Done that!!!!! Nothing scarier than having it over your head for the first time and not knowing what to do!!!!
If you can keep a HBKII in a 1' box for a full battery....your doing damn good with it.
There are some great RC forums out there as well with huge threads on specific copters.
I made the mistake of trying to fly mine when I was drunk once. I was showing off the 3d mode to a friend....basically the blades spin at a set speed rather than training mode which uses the speed of the blades to raise the copter.
Umm, came down a bit sideways and since lifting off the throttle didn't stop the blades, the concrete did. They shattered into a million pieces.
Plenty of information and support out there. Granted, it ends up being the same people on ALL sites.........The community is still a very small group of people.....couple thousand I'd guess that really contribute online.
TONS of usefull info mang! Thanks alot! I had a vague idea of what all the battery stuff ment and I am glad to know I actually figured most of it out correctly (except the C conversion to max discharge rate) and ordered the right batteries last night. I ordered an extra 11.1 2500mah 25C/35C battery for $18 shipped. The charge rate helps too! My charger can only do 1 amp max so my charges will be slow. I was looking at better chargers and I think I will end up ordering an Imax B6 charger that can do 2.5 for my larger batteries. Hell it can do 5 amps and I have been eying the large batteries. Anyway its only $40 shipped and is a smart charger where I can tell it battery type. Ill just have to get a 5A power supply for it to charge in the house.
I just got an email and the heli will be here tomorrow! Cant wait! Unfortunatly that means I will have it for a bit with only one battery so I wont get much practice time in as soon as I wanted.
Cant wait though! I think tomorrow I am going to go to the hobby shop and get some wood blades and take off the carbon fibre ones the heli comes with.
Also, thanks for letting me know what a feathering shaft is. I was told that the rotors, main shaft, tail boom and feathering shafts are what breaks. I had no idea what a feathering shaft was and figured when I brought a broken part in and say"I need one of these" is when I would find out.
TONS of usefull info mang! Thanks alot! I had a vague idea of what all the battery stuff ment and I am glad to know I actually figured most of it out correctly (except the C conversion to max discharge rate) and ordered the right batteries last night. I ordered an extra 11.1 2500mah 25C/35C battery for $18 shipped. The charge rate helps too! My charger can only do 1 amp max so my charges will be slow. I was looking at better chargers and I think I will end up ordering an Imax B6 charger that can do 2.5 for my larger batteries. Hell it can do 5 amps and I have been eying the large batteries. Anyway its only $40 shipped and is a smart charger where I can tell it battery type. Ill just have to get a 5A power supply for it to charge in the house.
Another tip.....if your comfortable with minor soldering and wire work....a Computer power supply can be converted into a desktop power supply for battery chargers. For a 50 watt charger ( ~4 amps at 12.6 volts) a 200 or larger, watt PC power supply will work great.
Heres a good link.....there are plenty of other sources of How-To out there. Nice thing about this, is if you have a broken power supply around, chances are the 12Volt rails in it are still good, and it can be used.
Cool! I have a dead PC and didnt even think about that. Good deal.
Here are a few shots of the helis main stuff. The pics have the fibreglass frame but other then color the cut is identical on the carbon one I am getting.
So it came in yesterday and I was like a kid at x-mas! Weather was drizzling and windy (up to 12 mph) but I couldnt help myself, I charged the battery and set off to crash... er, fly it. I set it on the gravel in the driveway and gave slow power untill it started to lift its gear but the training gear was still touching. I had to do some minor teim and that took a few minutes as I had to keep setting it down and then adjust it. So I got it about 4" up and the wind blew it backwards. I saw it was gonna hit the tall grass so I brought the power down and it slid backwards and the tail fin caught on a weed root and snapped the fin. I epoxied it and reinforced it then pulled the car out of the car port and tried it again in there. I slid the training gear around for 4-5 minutes learning that the heli is very very different from my coaxial one. I didnt know that after you move it you have to bring it back to level flight not just expect it to go back to vertical quickly on its own.
My car port is small so I went back outside and tried it again at 12" up to try and reduce the effects of prop wash. Again the wind grabbed it and it was flying quickly tail first right towards my Lincoln. I gave too much foreward stick and it shot into the ground splitting my carbon fibre rotors and stripping the main gear as well as bend the feathering sgaft.
I straightened the shaft and checked it out and the rest is fine. I just ordered a bunch of spare parts cause its gonn be down for 2+ weeks while I await parts and its gonna drive me nuts so I wanted to make sure that dont happen again.
Fortunatly 95% of it is interchangeable with T-Rex 450 new series so I ordered that kind of parts. Everyone is out of Shark 450 main gears and the one way bearing is pressed into the gear so I had to order a T-rex hub/bearing and some extra gears for back ups. I also ordered 4 pairs of main and tail rotors and a bunch of other parts that are common breakage parts.
I didnt know that after you move it you have to bring it back to level flight not just expect it to go back to vertical quickly on its own.
Should have kept it on the concrete. At least your training gear will slide around. I tried in the grass once and the training gear just catches and you flip the heli. No offense, but I think you need to avoid the wind completely, and stick to a concrete pad for now.
This is why I prefer the cheap plastic parts.....cheaper to replace
I was searching for heli videos cause I wanted to get a real RC copter instead of the little co-axial one I have and stumbled across that vid.
I was looking at better chargers and I think I will end up ordering an Imax B6 charger that can do 2.5 for my larger batteries. Hell it can do 5 amps and I have been eying the large batteries. 
Anyway its only $40 shipped and is a smart charger where I can tell it battery type. Ill just have to get a 5A power supply for it to charge in the house.
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