[strtrcr50]

I got my wife a high end point and shoot a few years ago, and now she has tried a dslr and loved it. I have no idea what to get her for christmas, so a dslr looks like a good idea. I've been reading up on a Canon EOS Rebel T1i and it seems good. Is this the one to get, or is there something better to get for the money? Newegg.com - Canon EOS Rebel T1i Black 15.10 MP 3.0" 920K LCD Full HD Movie Digital SLR Camera w/ EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens I've looked into other lenses and might get another one with this depending on how I am $wise.

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

I got my wife a high end point and shoot a few years ago, and now she has tried a dslr and loved it. I have no idea what to get her for christmas, so a dslr looks like a good idea. I've been reading up on a Canon EOS Rebel T1i and it seems good. Is this the one to get, or is there something better to get for the money? Newegg.com - Canon EOS Rebel T1i Black 15.10 MP 3.0" 920K LCD Full HD Movie Digital SLR Camera w/ EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens I've looked into other lenses and might get another one with this depending on how I am $wise.

Theres a lot to cover about this subject!!

Speaking currently in production Canon cameras, the T1i is a great camera. Its big brother is the 50D. They each have their pros and cons, one being that the T1i has HD video capability whereas the 50D does not. Since I have a camera to shoot photos, this 'feature' isnt a 'plus' in my mind.

I have a 50D and love it. Its an amazing camera. Internally the 50D and T1i are essentially the same thing. What sold me on the 50D was the size/metal body (the T1i feels like a toy and feels cramped) and Micro-adjustment for lenses, which adjusts back/front focusing issues inherent in many after market lenses

There are many places to buy cameras from. I would suggest looking into Adorama.com and bhphotovideo.com/

A lot of these cameras come with different size kit lenses. What type of pictures does she like to take? This should determine your choice of lens for whatever body you choose.

the 18-55mm lens is a great lens. If you wind up getting a camera with this lens and are looking to buy another, get the ef-s 55-250mm lens to pair with it. You will have great focal range available with these two lenses, at a reasonable price, and good image quality to boot!

HOWEVER
if she likes dslr cameras enough to justify upgrading the body to a full frame camera later on down the road, these lenses wont work on those bodies

did i mention Nikon makes cameras too? *
nikon does some things better than canon and vice versa. its all dependent on what you are looking for. especially since oyu dont have an investment in lenses/accessories yet


OAN, dont think that this hobby isnt expensive. its just as bad as the 'mod bug' that we all have around here


* My point here is that there are other companies to consider for DSLRs: Nikon, Pentax, Sony to name a few

[RedDaemon]

did i scare you away?

[bakos24]

[bakos24]

Man, them things are expensive. My wife wanted to get into this and was thinking a Xmas gift also, but man. We both said something small for Xmas, she would KILL me if I spend that much on her.

[RedDaemon]

The cost does indeed add up quite fast.

[RedDaemon]

A new Canon XS can be had for under $600. The only thing required to get started would be to buy a SD/SDHC card which are like 50-100 bucks depending on Class and size. Tripods and Flashes are 'optional', although good to have for certain conditions. Any lens should be equipped with a UV Filter to protect the front element. Although, a scratch does NOT affect image quality, it DOES affect its resale value, even though the people wanting to buy this scratched lens realize that it has no effect on the image. Thats just how the particular market works unfortunately.


AMMENDED storage medium type from CF to SD/SDHC.
Rebels use SD/SDHC whereas the non Rebels use CF.

[strtrcr50]

Didn't scare me away. I've just been doing more reading. The reason I was looking into a Canon EOS rebel is because that's what my sis in law has and what my wife used a few times and said "Wow. I want one of these". The movie aspect of it does nothing for me at all, but I guess it'd be nice. My wife took movies using her point and shoot camera at disney for the parade, so I guess she'd use it.
In your opinion, would I be better off getting her an xsi and an extra lens?

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

In your opinion, would I be better off getting her an xsi and an extra lens?

before i reply, i need some clarification, XSi vs T1i, XSi vs XS, or all three?

further, what P&S does she use currently?

[strtrcr50]

Originally Posted by RedDaemon

before i reply, i need some clarification, XSi vs T1i, XSi vs XS, or all three?

further, what P&S does she use currently?

All 3. I will check on the model. It's a sony 12 megapixel point and shoot from best buy.

[RedDaemon]

First off, lets talk pricing. DPReview states that current prices on these

bodies are:
T1i: $669.99
XSi: $599.99
XS: $499.99

There are several key differences to these models. First off is the Maximum resolution. The XS has the lowest coming in at 3888x2592 (10 MP) and the T1i having the biggest resolution of 4752x3168 (15 MP). The XS comes in at 12 MegaPixels (4272x2848). Image resolution is important if you like to
post-process the images in photoshop/gimp/etc. doing things like cropping and stuff. The more pixels you have to play with, the more cropping and other things you can do. If you like to post process, or want to print large images, you should take the MP size into account. However, MegaPixel size isnt everything. More on that later.

The XS and XSi are both limited in their ISO capability. They are both capped at 1600 ISO. ISO in in digital terms makes the sensor more sensitive to light, allowing properly exposed images in darker conditions. It should be noted here that the higher the ISO, the more noise is introduced into
the image, even if it is minimal. With that said, the T1i has a maximum ISO level of 12800.

Image noise is also affected by the MegaPixels to Sensor Size ratio. For a given sensor size, the more pixels crammed onto the sensor will result in more noise than a camera with less megapixels using the same sensor. It should be stated now that what I have just been talking about is more or
less theory. For a slighly (marginal at best) larger sensor on the T1i compared to the XS and XSi, the T1i performs incredibly well. In fact when dealing with image noise, it has been argued that the T1i has better noise handling than its big brother, the 50D. Even though they share the same
sensor, and MP.

If she will be using her camera indoors and possibly in situations where flash isnt allowed, perhaps the T1i gets a 'check' in this department.

If you dont forecast any situation where she will not be able to use a flash, theres no reason why you cant then pick up an XS or XSi plus a flash. (I dislike onboard flashes. They dont have enough reach and more times than not they leave hotspots on peoples faces. In addition that the light produced isnt very pleasing).

I will subsequently post threads as I make more remarks. I figured I'd post this so as to not post a huge novel haha

[strtrcr50]

BTW, the point and shoot is a DSC W200

[RedDaemon]

does she like to take pictures of anything specific or just random happenings and trips?

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by bakos24

We both said something small for Xmas, she would KILL me if I spend that much on her.

you HAAAAD to get your blower

[bakos24]

Originally Posted by RedDaemon

you HAAAAD to get your blower

Good thing about that though is it is paid off. Thank God for first time home buyers and money back at tax time


Good info on this Daemon I think I may tell wifey not to get me anything at all and surprise with one of these cameras. I mean, it will be for her but we both can play with it so it kinda is a both of us sorta thing.


Which one would you suggest for just like random stuff. Trips, just going out and shooting a nice sunset, shooting the stang Between the 3 that are already listed. XS, XSI T1i Or is there another one you would suggest?

Hope I'm not derailing here. I think strtrcr50 can get some use out of this

[strtrcr50]

Originally Posted by RedDaemon

does she like to take pictures of anything specific or just random happenings and trips?

She likes to take pictures of her cats. LOL. And we go on vacation a few times a year and she likes to take pictures of wherever we go, and of course family events.

[RedDaemon]

**Using the 'Royal You'***:

To be honest, all three can take amazing photos. What makes a DSLR more expensive than another is the functionality. If you are going to use the camera for still life/random happenings then an XS or XSi will absolutely be sufficient.

However, if you want to get a camera to take photos of your kid playing pop warner football, you will want a camera that can take pictures in lower light (since they play in the evenings) so ISO 1600 may not be sensitive enough. What I should mention is that in these situations its not only about ISO. The reason why you need the ISO is because you need a fast enough shutter speed in order to freeze the time. Since if you increase shutter speed, you decrease the amoutn of time the sensor is exposed to light. Less light = less exposure. The ISO offsets this underexposure.

Let me interject and also mention it is not all about the body either. Your lenses have MORE effect on the overall image quality than a body does. A quality lens will be made of high quality materials, limiting diffraction/aberration issues, etc. In addition, more expensive lenses are also about the Aperture. The closer the F number is to 0, the 'faster' the lens is. You can think about the Aperture much like the Iris of an eye. If your eyes are exposed to more light, the iris will naturally contract and get smaller to restrict light onto the optic nerve. With a lower F number lens, you can open up this 'iris' to allow in more light, which is better to do than bumping up the ISO, since more ISO equates to more noise. But, there are post processing programs to eliminate this noise (NoiseNinja/Noiseware to name a few)

**The F number is inversely proportional to the size of the aperture***

For me, the 50D was a justified investment because i like to take pictures of sporting events which requires high FPS and good Autofocus, with the ability to bump the ISO above 1600 when the lighting gets a bit dark. I need a flash and tripod though

Changing the Aperture has other effects on the overall image. When you lower the F number (closer to 0), you change the depth of field. This depth of field decreases when you lower the F number. This is how portrait photography sort of works. Having a good lens that can go down to F1.2/1.4/1.8 gives great separation between the subject and the background. The amount of depth of field you have at these apertures depends on how close you are to the subject as well

Let me digress and say that, if you are going to be taking landscape/sunset pictures, this is of no consequence to you since landscapes are usually taken at F/11 and above which pretty much all lenses can do (but some better than others)

Let me digress even further and just say in short, if you dont need a camera that can take burst rates of more than 3.5 frames per second and crazy Autofocus for hockey games, a bazillion focus points like that of a 7D and 1D series, and being a new comer to dslr's, there is no reason that an XS/XSi wouldnt be suffice.

Make sure to get a kit that coems with a Lens that has Image Stabilization. The Description of the Lens should state "IS". USM stands for UltraSonic Motor. This describes the 'near silent' and very quick auto focus mechanism in the lens.

I might have completely dodged your question bakos, ill have to read this over in a little bit. I want to submit it before i lose it due to me hitting the close button on the browser or something

[RedDaemon]

amendment to above post: aperature alone doesnt determine the price of a lens. its really a combination of the aperature, focal length, it being a prime or zoom and/or macro lens, autofocus (USM) and image stabilization, and of course - demand!


--------------------------------------------

anyway, i apologize for the lengthy, philosophical posts. The problem with giving a straight-cut answer is due to the fact that with several point and shoot cameras (the Canon G series) and the current state of some DSLR's (Canon XS and XSi), the line between the two are becoming increasingly blurred.

I asked myself, "Why get a DSLR (XS/XSi) when some P&S cameras cost more?"
A further question would be, "If I buy a DSLR, will I use it like a DSLR or use it like I use my P&S? Setting it on full Auto"; kinda like buying a kewbra and never going into boost. This second question only makes me ask myself the question about "Why not go P&S?" even more. This is even after the consideration that in some situations, Auto modes are extremely useful.

The first answer to this is obviously the ability to change lenses. But, if you have a P&S currently, has there ever been a situation where you said "Damn..I really could have used a 400mm F/5.6L for this shot...", or any other lens for that matter?

What the above answer is really trying to convey is that: Yes, buying a dslr for the ability to change lenses is definitely justifiable. This also answers one of strtrcr's questions (in a roundabout way) about buying another lens other than the kit one. When you upgrade to a dslr that is a CROP body (Rebel, XXD, 1D [not to be confused with a 5d or 1d-s]) you lose your wide angle. This has to do with the nature of a crop camera. Youll be surprised at how much youll miss the wide angle. I suggest investing in the wide end of the spectrum before going into zooms since youve gotten by thus far without one right? Depending on what kit lens you purchase, this might not be necessary as 18mm might be enough on the wide end for your preference (I doubt it though). 18mm is definitely a lot better than my 28mm though!

The other reason for getting a DSLR is the QUALITY OF THE IMAGE. Eventhough an XS/XSi might be cheaper than some P&S cameras, their sensors are MUCH larger than the sensors in P&S cameras. Example: Strtrcr, your P&S DSC-W200's sensor size is 0.43 cm² compared to an XSi with a size of 3.28 cm²

there is a significant increase in sensor size, allowing for a significant increase in image quality. Both cameras are also comparable in MegaPixel count too so this is a fairly accurate statement without having to take much else into consideration

Like most others, I tend to get fickle before making a purchase that costs a fair amount, especially when its something I dont necessarily need. This has a lot to do with being an informed consumer. I guess what I have been trying to do in these posts of mine is share things that I would personally be thinking about if I were to be buying my first DSLR. I apologize for the long posts, but I hope they were somewhat informative.

This goes without mention but I hope those like DarkfireGT would pop in here to correct anyhting that Ive said if something is amiss, or care to debate anything I said

I realize I still havent DIRECTLY answered many of the questions in here. Ill attempt to answer them in summary in the next post...or two.

[strtrcr50]

The posts have been VERY informative. They are making more things understandable when I read about them.
You hit something I was thinking/wondering about. If she gets thiss, it might just stay in automatic mode. But even still, I can remember her trying to get a shot of the Magic Castle at night and trying all the different settings and being unable to get a good one.

That's just one I stole off the web for example. Ours were useless pictures and she was disappointed.

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

The movie aspect of it does nothing for me at all, but I guess it'd be nice. My wife took movies using her point and shoot camera at disney for the parade, so I guess she'd use it. In your opinion, would I be better off getting her an xsi and an extra lens?

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

She likes to take pictures of her cats. LOL. And we go on vacation a few times a year and she likes to take pictures of wherever we go, and of course family events.

RESPONSE TO STRTRCR:

For what you described, the primary use of the camera would be portraits and candids. These types of pictures do not require high performance autofocus capability as the subjects will tend to be static. I see no reason why you would need anything else than a Canon XS. If you want to splurge and go for the XSi for $100 more then go for it by all means! For the $100 more, you get 2 more MP, 2 more focus points (always a good thing to have more), and a slightly faster burst rate (3.0 FPS to 3.5 FPS)

The kit lens that comes with the XS (18-55) will be great for portraits and indoor shots as it is somewhat wide. This lens will perform OK indoors in poor lighting as its aperture is F3.5 at its wide end.

I do not consider the 18-55 lens to be a 'walk around' lens for the camera. This is important for vacations. If she feels that she needs more reach, the Canon 55-250mm will be a great complimenting lens. Keep in mind though that constantly switching lenses on vacation can be quite the hassle and stressful. I provide the Canon 28-135mm as an alternative to the 55-250mm lens. You lose a bit of reach on both ends but covers a more diverse focal range. This allows you to not have to switch the lenses as much.

IT SHOULD BE KNOWN:
Switching lenses allows the opportunity to allow foreign particles to attach themselves to the sensor. Sensor dust is a major concern with DSLRs and should be of concern since the sensor is a very delicate piece of technology. Dust itself cannot harm the sensor but cleaning it can. It is recommended that you send the camera to Canon to get it professionally cleaned when you collect a significant amount of dust on the sensor. OR you can clean it yourself WITH PROPER MATERIALS. Cleaning it the wrong way can permanently damage the sensor


IF YOU KNOW ABOUT BING CASHBACK:
Something to consider regarding the XS vs XSi debate. I found this post on a photography forum I frequent:

Originally Posted by Drozz119

You can get the T1i for $487 from Adorama right now. ($529-42 bing.com = $487)

Pick up a 18-55mm IS ($100) and 50mm 1.8 ($100) and your still at $687 with NO tax

You'll have the newest technology, HD Video, ISO 3200+, and 2 lenses

I dont know anything about Bing Cashback but that is a pretty good deal I must say. You still would need to pick up some SD/SDHC cards though AND it also doesnt get you that 55-250 or 28-135 lens. Perhaps substitute the 50mm 1.8 with the lens of your choosing. This will make the price come out a little more (by like $125) if you decide to go this route.

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

The posts have been VERY informative. They are making more things understandable when I read about them.
You hit something I was thinking/wondering about. If she gets thiss, it might just stay in automatic mode. But even still, I can remember her trying to get a shot of the Magic Castle at night and trying all the different settings and being unable to get a good one.

That's just one I stole off the web for example. Ours were useless pictures and she was disappointed.

You absolutely need a tripod for these types of photos. Its apparent since you can see that ride or whatever; the lights are whizzing around in circles, indicating a prolonged exposure. A P&S can take these photos as well being on a tripod. The difference between the two pictures (P&S vs DSLR) would be the superior clarity and color of the DSLR (ESPECIALLY when shot in RAW and tweaked in post processing)

RAW files also allow you to 'save' more exposures that you would otherwise disregard as being out of focus or over/under exposed. If you have a good photo editor that can handle RAW files, it is easy to bring back slightly under and over exposed images that would otherwise be trashed when shot as a JPEG

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by bakos24

Which one would you suggest for just like random stuff. Trips, just going out and shooting a nice sunset, shooting the stang Between the 3 that are already listed. XS, XSI T1i Or is there another one you would suggest?

Hope I'm not derailing here. I think strtrcr50 can get some use out of this

RESPONSE TO BAKOS:

It seems your needs are in line with strtrcr's; landscapes and portraits that dont involve much movement (like bird photography). I would recommend the same for you. The XS will definitely work for what you would use it for. Perhaps lens choices for you would be slightly different. You seem more like a prime lens type of person. I would right off the bat get the 50mm F/1.8 as its 100 bucks. Its the one i was raving about last month on here. Its great to have in your arsenal for many reasons

[bakos24]

Dood, you are the man, great stuff I was talking to the wife last night and forgot she was going to Panama next month and she wants one to take with her. Looks like we WILL be getting one.

So you say for me the XS with the 50mm F/1.8 lens would be good. How much better would the XSi be with the same lens? I'm just curios. I am already looking at about $600 for the XS and the 50mm F/1.8 lens. If there would be a nice noticeable difference then I will just get the XSi with the 50mm F/1.8.
I will be spending this much already, might as well get the best I can

[strtrcr50]

For that picture, I was moreso using it for thee castle in the background. We just got shadows with some blue spots. Oh, and that is the parade in the foreground.
As far as an editor, I have photoshop cs4. But don't really know how to use it. The wife does though.

[RedDaemon]

Originally Posted by strtrcr50

For that picture, I was moreso using it for thee castle in the background. We just got shadows with some blue spots. Oh, and that is the parade in the foreground.

Yea, i realize the castle is the main subject of the picture. That image was probably taken with an exposure around 1/10 to 0.3" since the parade lights and stuff are not 'frozen'. Because these lights are not 'frozen' this implies there wasnt enough light being emitted from the castle (and everything else) to give a decent exposure. So instead of bumping up ISO, they prolonged the shutterspeed since the subject was not going to move (which would add blur if it did). Theres no reason why they need to add more noise to the photo (bumping ISO) to freeze time, since time is frozen for the castle in the first place.

Even if they did increase the shutter speed and got the foreground lights to stand still, the photo wouldnt look as pleasing; to me anyway.

As far as an editor, I have photoshop cs4. But don't really know how to use it. The wife does though.

As long as someone does! CS4 has a RAW editor that opens the RAW file before importing it into CS4 itself