A Novel Idea. Register non-gun owners

**sphinx** · #1 (**permalink**) 11-05-09, 10:26 PM

I think I just might have to move......

Quote:

Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack has read the Second Amendment to the U.S.
Constitution, as well as Vermont 's own Constitution very carefully, and
his strict interpretation of these documents is popping some eyeballs in New
England and elsewhere.

Maslack recently proposed a bill to register "non-gun-owners" and require
them to pay a $500 fee to the state.
Thus Vermont would become the f More..irst state to require a permit for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a
fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun

Maslack read the "militia" phrase of the Second Amendment as not only affirming the right of the individual citizen to bear arms, but as a clear
mandate to do so.
He believes that universal gun ownership was advocated by the Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a "monopoly of force" by
the government as well as criminals

Vermont 's constitution states explicitly that "the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State" and those persons
who are "conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms" shall be required to "pay such equivalent." Clearly, says Maslack, Vermonters have a
constitutional obligation to arm themselves, so that they are capable of responding to "any situation that may arise."

Under the bill, adults who choose not to own a firearm would be required
to register their name, address, Social Security Number, and driver's
license number with the state.
"There is a legitimate government interest in knowing who is not prepared to defend the state should they be asked to do
so," Maslack says

Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with the least
restrictive laws of any state ..
it's currently the only state that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit.
This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has resulted in a crime rate
that is the third lowest in the nation

"America is at that awkward stage.
It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

This makes sense!
There is no reason why gun owners should have to pay taxes to support police protection for people not wanting to own guns.
Let them contribute their fair share and pay their own way

LiveLeak.com - A Novel Idea. Register non-gun owners

**rbohm** · #2 (**permalink**) 11-05-09, 10:29 PM

not a bad idea, but i will go one better, have the states register the criminals as well.

6Stang7 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 03:11 AM

I love shooting as much as the next guy, but that's utterly retarded.

jikelly · #4 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 08:25 AM

Quote:

He believes that universal gun ownership was advocated by the Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a "monopoly of force" by
the government as well as criminals

Um, there are a lot of people who I don't want armed. Some people are just to emotional and irresponsible to be gun owners.

The article did give me a good laugh though.

Dusstbuster · #5 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 08:40 AM

Implementation: Extreme

Concept: Great!

grey5.0beast · #6 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 10:13 AM

Kennesaw, GA has a city ordinance that every individual must own at least 1 firearm. And I don't need the gov't to tell me I need to prepare and I don't want them to know my status of preparation.

**D.Hearne** · #7 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jikelly

Um, there are a lot of people who I don't want armed. Some people are just to emotional and irresponsible to be gun owners.

The article did give me a good laugh though.

Who said anything about requiring those people to own guns ? And after yesterday's shooting at Ft. Hood Texas, maybe it's about time to disarm the military too ?

jikelly · #8 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.Hearne

Who said anything about requiring those people to own guns ? And after yesterday's shooting at Ft. Hood Texas, maybe it's about time to disarm the military too ?

We need to do better by our service people. The shootings in Ft Hood will hopefully shed some light on that fact and get this country focused on actually providing our soldiers with the resources and support they need.

MeanMike · #9 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 11:43 AM

Indiana has an old law that say's you have too own a gun too own a home, or something along those line's. Allthough I know this law is'nt enforced.

**D.Hearne** · #10 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jikelly

and get this country focused on actually providing our soldiers with the resources and support they need.

Another vague reply typical of a liberal. What is it that they're lacking, other than a Commander-in-Chief who lacks leadership qualities ?

The reason this massacre happened was due to two things. One was the fact that the perp was a home grown Muslim terrorist, bent on carrying out a sucide mission (which he failed carrying out the last part)the second is the fact that our soldiers are not allowed to go armed on base at all times. Same thing happened back in the 90's in neighboring Killeen Tx. Only back then it was the fact that the public at large wasn't allowed to carry concealed firearms. That's since been rectified.

The military hierarchy doesn't trust our guys to go armed at home, that needs to be changed.

jikelly · #11 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 12:06 PM

What is it they are lacking? Tell you what, if you see a vet thank him for his service and then tell your congress person to do more for our men and women in uniform and for those after they return. The need is unchanged by the recent attack at Ft. Hood.

Quote:

The president just took a question on unemployment among veterans during his online town hall meeting. The full transcript and video should be available at the White House web site later today, but here are his comments on that issue:

"We wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for the sacrifices of earlier veterans. We would not enjoy the same safety and security and liberty that we do. So when our veterans come home from Iraq and Afghanistan -- and they have performed brilliantly; they have done everything that's asked of them, regardless what your views are on these wars -- they have earned these benefits that all too often we've failed to give them.

"That's why in my budget we are increasing veterans funding by more than any time in the last 30 years. We're going to make sure that we deal with the backlog that too many veterans experience in terms of getting benefits, we're going to make sure that homeless veterans are receiving housing and services. The homeless rate for veterans is multiple time higher than it is for non-veterans. That's inexcusable.

"It means we're going to provide services for post-traumatic stress disorder, that we're going to provide services for traumatic brain injury -- the signature injuries of these recent wars. We are going to significantly increase veterans spending.

"Just as is true generally, government alone can't do it. So all of us individually are going to have roles. If you're a business owner, hiring a veteran, not discriminating against someone who is a veteran, is going to be absolutely critical. In your communities, in your churches, in your neighborhoods, making sure there is outreach and celebration of veterans when they come home, that's going to be critical.

"I think we did a much better job in these wars than we did in Vietnam, where in many cases our treatment of veterans was inexcusable. But we can always do more. Government is going to do it's role. Now we have to make sure our communities do their role as well."

Obama: We can do more for veterans | Stripes Blogs

Quote:

The report, Healing a Broken System: Veterans Battling Addiction and Incarceration, comes at a critical time. With hundreds of thousands of soldiers currently deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US faces a mounting challenge in caring for returning vets.

Many are returning home damaged by their experiences. According to the report, 30% of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans report symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), traumatic brain injury, depression, mental illness, or other cognitive disability. These medical conditions, if left untreated, can contribute to problematic drug use, addiction, and fatal overdoses, as well as homelessness, suicide, and criminality, particular violations of the drug laws.

Feature: Veterans Incarcerated and Ignored When They Could Be Getting Help, Report Finds | Stop the Drug War (DRCNet)

Quote:

This Veterans Day, let’s do more to prevent our troops from taking their own lives. Community colleges can play a pivotal role in the life-saving process.

Eighteen American war veterans kill themselves every day. One thousand former soldiers receiving care from the Department of Veterans Affairs attempt suicide every month. In January of this year, the Army reports, more of our active duty soldiers killed themselves than died in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

On Veterans Day: How to stop veteran suicides | The Progressive

**RookieOne** · #12 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jikelly

We need to do better by our service people. The shootings in Ft Hood will hopefully shed some light on that fact and get this country focused on actually providing our soldiers with the resources and support they need.

The implication of this statement is that you believe that there is something that the soldiers need, that they are not getting that would have prevented this violence at Ft Hood.

What exactly were they lacking that would have prevented this event?

jikelly · #13 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RookieOne

The implication of this statement is that you believe that there is something that the soldiers need, that they are not getting that would have prevented this violence at Ft Hood.

What exactly were they lacking that would have prevented this event?

Someone to talk to? An advocate?

The shooter at Ft. Hood clearly had issues. His issues were not taken seriously and a lot of innocent people got hurt. I'm not defending the guy, or saying he's not responsible for his actions. I'm saying that we need to do better by our service people in many ways.

**RookieOne** · #14 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jikelly

Someone to talk to? An advocate?

The shooter at Ft. Hood clearly had issues. His issues were not taken seriously and a lot of innocent people got hurt. I'm not defending the guy, or saying he's not responsible for his actions. I'm saying that we need to do better by our service people in many ways.

I'm sorry, I don't know exactly why, but the reaction to blame the system for "not getting the soldiers what they need" rubs me the wrong way....

There is no one to blame for this except for the individual firing the gun. There is nothing that would have stopped this, except to run his ass out of the Army or a FMJ through his head as soon as the shooting started. The dude gave away all his possessions and clean out his belongings and arranged to have his apartment cleaned TODAY, because he was "leaving"

The mere statement

Quote:

His issues were not taken seriously and a lot of innocent people got hurt.

inherently alleviates some of the blame from him, and I find that down right offensive to all those that were killed or traumatized in the incident. It's a cop-out, and a weak excuse for diverting attention from something as truly vile and evil as what happened at Ft Hood.

Not sure why I'm in such a punchy mood today...but I am......

/Rant Off

jikelly · #15 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RookieOne

I'm sorry, I don't know exactly why, but the reaction to blame the system for "not getting the soldiers what they need" rubs me the wrong way....

There is no one to blame for this except for the individual firing the gun. There is nothing that would have stopped this, except to run his ass out of the Army or a FMJ through his head as soon as the shooting started. The dude gave away all his possessions and clean out his belongings and arranged to have his apartment cleaned TODAY, because he was "leaving"

The mere statement

inherently alleviates some of the blame from him, and I find that down right offensive to all those that were killed or traumatized in the incident. It's a cop-out, and a weak excuse for diverting attention from something as truly vile and evil as what happened at Ft Hood.

Not sure why I'm in such a punchy mood today...but I am......

/Rant Off

I understand where you're coming from. I know that even if there were assistance available for this individual he may have still carried out his evil act. I didn't mean to excuse what he has done.

Still, I hope that this draws attention to the plight of our service men and women and veterans and gets the Army moving on how to better support its members psychological needs.

When I was in the Army it sometime felt like you were being run over by the system and there was no where to turn for support. There were a few incidents where soldiers snapped and lashed out after seeking assistance and being denied it by the chain of command.

**RookieOne** · #16 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jikelly

I understand where you're coming from. I know that even if there were assistance available for this individual he may have still carried out his evil act. I didn't mean to excuse what he has done.

Still, I hope that this draws attention to the plight of our service men and women and veterans and gets the Army moving on how to better support its members psychological needs.

When I was in the Army it sometime felt like you were being run over by the system and there was no where to turn for support. There were a few incidents where soldiers snapped and lashed out after seeking assistance and being denied it by the chain of command.

You do realize he, the gunman, WAS an Army Psychiatrist? If anyone should have been equipped to deal with such issues, he should have been.

**rbohm** · #17 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RookieOne

You do realize he, the gunman, WAS an Army Psychiatrist? If anyone should have been equipped to deal with such issues, he should have been.

just because he was a psychiatrist doesnt mean he was immune to his issues. thats like saying physician heal thy self. i agree that sometimes the fine men and women in uniform get the short end of the stick, and that something does need to be done to help them.

**Strype** · #18 (**permalink**) 11-06-09, 03:15 PM

Quote:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

Quote:

This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has resulted in a crime rate
that is the third lowest in the nation

Oh I have to hear what the nay sayers will bring as evidence that this guy is wrong. I can't wait I'm about to pee myself with excitement

**90mustangGT** · #19 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 09:00 AM

Making people have a permit and pay a fee to NOT own a gun is not any more stupid than charging someone a fee and have a permit to own a gun, considering that it is a constitutional right. A lot of what goverment chargers you and makes you do is really beyond ignorant and stupid, but we are used to it and have learned to accept such abuses as normal. It is normal for an abused person to accept thier abuse and even think it is their fault.

**sphinx** · #20 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90mustangGT

Making people have a permit and pay a fee to NOT own a gun is not any more stupid than charging someone a fee and have a permit to own a gun, considering that it is a constitutional right. A lot of what goverment chargers you and makes you do is really beyond ignorant and stupid, but we are used to it and have learned to accept such abuses as normal. It is normal for an abused person to accept thier abuse and even think it is their fault.

Face it we've become a nation of whiners and sheep.

Here's an example for one of the fees you mentioned, I don't know if its the same all over, but in Iowa if you are charged with a crime, any crime, you get a nice $60 court cost fee tacked on to it.
Now even if you are found to be guilty or get the charges dropped, you're still on the hook for the $60 court cost.
I could go one all day but, I'm going to stop here for now.

**sphinx** · #21 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jikelly

Someone to talk to? An advocate?

The shooter at Ft. Hood clearly had issues. His issues were not taken seriously and a lot of innocent people got hurt. I'm not defending the guy, or saying he's not responsible for his actions. I'm saying that we need to do better by our service people in many ways.

From what I've read he had plenty of people to talk to.

Troubling portrait emerges of shooting suspect - Tragedy at Fort Hood- msnbc.com

**68stang351** · #22 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strype

Oh I have to hear what the nay sayers will bring as evidence that this guy is wrong. I can't wait I'm about to pee myself with excitement

Did the libs not see your post or are they ignoring it?

**DBMSTNG** · #23 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.Hearne

: What is it that they're lacking, other than a Commander-in-Chief who lacks leadership qualities ?

did you hear Dick Cheney complaining about how he couldn't control Bush in his 2nd term? did Bush have good leadership qualities while being told what to do by Cheney?

jikelly · #24 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinx

From what I've read he had plenty of people to talk to.

Sounds to me like they didn't want to deal with his issues. They were hoping it would just kinda go away. It didn't. Seems like there were a lot of warning signs they ignored.

I'm glad the dude wasn't killed so he can stand trial.

Posted via Mobile Device

**D.Hearne** · #25 (**permalink**) 11-13-09, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBMSTNG

did you hear Dick Cheney complaining about how he couldn't control Bush in his 2nd term? did Bush have good leadership qualities while being told what to do by Cheney?

I've never heard Cheney say anything negative about GWB.

So far, 10 months into his term, Obama's batting a big fat ZERO in leadership skills.

Only three things I've seen him do as far as leadership was to buy a swingset, pick a dog and order 3 pirates killed (halfway around the world from where he was sitting) Yep, he's a leader all right