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What in the **** is this now? Won't start

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Old 11-06-09, 06:19 PM
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What in the **** is this now? Won't start

i took this pile of **** into best buy to get my deck put in. long story short, it kept cutting out. they traced it back to my ignition switch. they ziptied the ignition switch to the column so it didn't pivot around. problem was solved with the cutting out. then the blinkers stopped working, a wire got pulled out of the ignition switch wiring harness.

after i put in the new ignition switch, it began becomming hard to start. it would take 2-3 trys to get it to fire. one side of the key always worked, and the other didn't. i've been driving it for like 2 weeks now and its been consistant. couple trys and it starts.

today i started it to change my oil after it warmed up, normal. after the oil change, it took like 50 trys before it fired finally. now i went to leave, and it will NOT start.

i am getting lights on my cluster that have never worked that are now luminating. the e-brake light, everytime i turn it forward the airbag, check engine and one other light come on. only when the key is fully turned forward.

i tried my old switch again, wont start. it wont even crank over, out of nowhere. what in the hell is this now?
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Old 11-06-09, 06:24 PM
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i just checked again. its the check OIL light. it comes on with the key in the most forward position where it would normally crank. goes off when key is back.

accessory power works and functions key forward and backward. everything else works except no cranking.
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Old 11-06-09, 06:30 PM
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First mistake was taking it to best buy. Head units are simple to install (unless you've got something unusual) and it sound like they hacked something up and somethings disconnected.
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Old 11-06-09, 06:55 PM
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No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 09-July-2009 to reorder stuck solenoid help.

No crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of both no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…


1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a know problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstuck and work normally for a while.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .5 volts across a connection indicates a problem.

See Automotive Test Tools for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .

Click the image to open in full size.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
Click the image to open in full size.


6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.


Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang
Click the image to open in full size.


Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.
Click the image to open in full size.

Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid

Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.

Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.
Click the image to open in full size.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
Click the image to open in full size.

You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.
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Old 11-06-09, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tannerc91gt View Post
First mistake was taking it to best buy. Head units are simple to install (unless you've got something unusual) and it sound like they hacked something up and somethings disconnected.
they didn't hack up anything. the guy who did the work initially is a friend. when i started getting issues, i had to go back multiple times. i didn't get him each time.

this was over i thought, until i replaced my ignition switch. with the new switch installed, it started taking multiple turns to start. i don't have a multimeter. so i guess ill see how they handle it at bestbuy. last time (with the blinkers). they said if the guy didn't fix it, they would pay for it to be.

i'm just trying to get this done asap. i absolutely hate electrical work.
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Old 11-06-09, 09:53 PM
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christ... i cant help but laugh.

i have always hated and made fun of how ****ty ford electrical is.

i went out there and loosened the front ignition mount screw like 1/4 turn. starts on the first try, three times in a row.
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Old 11-07-09, 12:27 AM
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Did you notice if any of the wires for the ignition switch were burned or coming out of the shell?
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Old 11-07-09, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HISSIN50 View Post
Did you notice if any of the wires for the ignition switch were burned or coming out of the shell?
jt, they are all good. there was one wire that pulled out (blinker mend found that). i pulled on each of them lightly but firm earlier. all i did was loosen the front mounting screw

what i'm still kinda confused on, the emergency brake light still comes on. it never worked before. i don't believe it functions as it should with the car running. all i did was start it, shut it off, start it, ect.

nothing was ever arcing or burning, cause i was sittin there staring at it with everything exposed.
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Old 11-07-09, 01:24 AM
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I just re-read this.

Is there any signs that the issue was the coil mounting? Those little screws should not affect much unless the coil is physically damaged.

If it persists, contingent upon the symptoms:

I'd access the ignition switch and check wiring values at each terminal (key off, key at run, etc). Then wiggle test the wiring while trying to start it to see if lighting or symptoms change.

Were there issues with the actuation rod and how it fit into the switch? Is the lock action smooth?

See if your friend has any idea what all was touched while it was out of your hands (even though he didn't do all the work, he'd have a good idea).


On the brake light, doese it come on for no reason or is it because the e-brake handle is up or your coincidentally low on fluid?

Last edited by HISSIN50; 11-07-09 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 11-07-09, 01:35 AM
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the e-brake light came on upon removing/installing the switch again. it has fluid. it is/was wiggle safe during cranking. thats how we found the old ignition switch to be a problem. that went away upon installing the new one.

it turns smooth. the pin fits in there fine. i didn't have to force it over or anything. this is my first experience with anything ignition. it left me no concern though.

it feels fine now mechanically turning and all. if it keeps starting correctly, should i be at all concerned anymore?
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Old 11-07-09, 01:45 AM
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key turned back snaps into place smoothly. radio functions key back. no ebrake light, no dash lights.

key forward position, check engine/airbag/battery light are on. when it cranks, ebrake light luminates as well as the other 3. once it starts, they all go out.

this ebrake light comes on with the brake OFF and ON.
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Old 11-07-09, 11:05 PM
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Here if you want to test the ignition switch.

For 93' Mustang.
Make sure you are testing the correct terminals.

Test Procedure
Click the image to open in full size.

Connector side
Click the image to open in full size.

Component side
Click the image to open in full size.
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