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- Thread starter TripleBlk
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bonestock87
Founding Member
Not exactly sure but mine is bolted to the right side (as you're standing above it) of the starter solenoid, think that's the + side???
Edit: Maybe not the positive side, but definitely the right side of the solenoid. I'm useless.......
Edit: Maybe not the positive side, but definitely the right side of the solenoid. I'm useless.......
It is a circuit breaker. Not sure what it goes to. Mine is currently hooked up to the positive battery terminal.
Thanks, Delray Dude.
I just got my Helm "Electrical + Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual" for the 1993 Mustang. That circuit breaker is identified as "In-Line" circuit breaker and leads to connector C204 (grey) up behind the driver's side kick panel. It's involved in the power window lock and power lock circuits.
This info might help some other poor devil in the future.
Still troubleshooting the "no start" problem - the ignition control module is stated to be "untestable" (they don't have the connectors, etc at the parts stores) . I guess we'll look at the PCM next. No trouble codes are being thrown, and the fan comes on when the ignition switch is turned on. And, the fan is controlled by the PCM.
I just got my Helm "Electrical + Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual" for the 1993 Mustang. That circuit breaker is identified as "In-Line" circuit breaker and leads to connector C204 (grey) up behind the driver's side kick panel. It's involved in the power window lock and power lock circuits.
This info might help some other poor devil in the future.
Still troubleshooting the "no start" problem - the ignition control module is stated to be "untestable" (they don't have the connectors, etc at the parts stores) . I guess we'll look at the PCM next. No trouble codes are being thrown, and the fan comes on when the ignition switch is turned on. And, the fan is controlled by the PCM.
bonestock87
Founding Member
My suggestions for what they are worth: Try a jumper (aka a screwdriver with a plastic grip) and touch both big posts on the starter solenoid with the key in the run position. If it starts, bad solenoid, $20. Next, make sure you have a good ground wire going to your battery. Just the other day I had starting issues. Went to the parts store to have them test the battery, alternator and starter. It was the 5 months old "Gold" battery. They replaced it for free but upon close inspection my negative cable was all green and corroded underneath the plastic sheathing. Probably led to the battery's early death.
Hope you get it resolved soon!
Hope you get it resolved soon!
Thanks again for a reply, man !
I still call that thing a solenoid , too. I try to remember that it's technically a relay, but still wind up calling it a solenoid.
Starter spins the motor, though. Plan for tomorrow - test the "J" fusible link which leads to the PCM and CCRM according to "the book".
We ARE gonna fix this thing - the prices they want for a reman PCM and ignition module are not justified, IMO, and I'm not "shotgunning".
I still call that thing a solenoid , too. I try to remember that it's technically a relay, but still wind up calling it a solenoid.
Starter spins the motor, though. Plan for tomorrow - test the "J" fusible link which leads to the PCM and CCRM according to "the book".
We ARE gonna fix this thing - the prices they want for a reman PCM and ignition module are not justified, IMO, and I'm not "shotgunning".
bonestock87
Founding Member
Hey you're on the space coast. Just run it down to NASA and have them put a booster rocket in it. Problem solved. Should run fine.
Interim Status 93 LX no-start
Fusible links all checked out OK.
Bought a CCRM off of Ebay for $43 and installed today. No start, no codes from PCM, but the engine cooling fan no longer comes on when the key is turned on. Fuel pump turns on. Hmm.
Went through the wiring diagrams several times in the Helm electrical and vacuum troubleshooting guide. Only flaw can I can deduce is a design flaw - if the PCM (maybe) doesn't function, then by definition no codes will be produced.
Next up - an $11 PCM, also from Ebay
Fusible links all checked out OK.
Bought a CCRM off of Ebay for $43 and installed today. No start, no codes from PCM, but the engine cooling fan no longer comes on when the key is turned on. Fuel pump turns on. Hmm.
Went through the wiring diagrams several times in the Helm electrical and vacuum troubleshooting guide. Only flaw can I can deduce is a design flaw - if the PCM (maybe) doesn't function, then by definition no codes will be produced.
Next up - an $11 PCM, also from Ebay
Interesting. when my 1993 computer went south - it would sometimes start and run fine, but usually when i first came to the car after the heat of the day i would turn the key on and you would hear the fuel pump run and run and run. car would crank but not fire. if you left the key on and listened the pump would shut off 30 seconds to 2-3 minutes after key on. Once shut off, turned engine over and fired up and ran fine.
got annoying and found a nice computer in the junk yard. installed it and the problem went away.
Finally , a code
Hooked up two (OBDI) code readers we have to the data link connector and the code displayed is "111", which is "System Passed tests". We can hear the relays turning on and off while the PCM runs its tests.
Double-checked fuel, and added 2 gallons. No start, of course. Would suspect the ignition control module, but that is checked during the system checks , correct ?
Hooked up two (OBDI) code readers we have to the data link connector and the code displayed is "111", which is "System Passed tests". We can hear the relays turning on and off while the PCM runs its tests.
Double-checked fuel, and added 2 gallons. No start, of course. Would suspect the ignition control module, but that is checked during the system checks , correct ?
Compression and fuel ; still no spark
Latest update for those who are interested, or who are also troubleshooting a no-start condition on a '93 Mustang LX 3.3L :
1) Replaced ICM after informed that this part commonly fails on 2.3L Rangers - still no start.
2) Verified fuel delivery by turning key on for a few seconds, then opening the schrader valve on the fuel rail. Plenty of fuel.
Looking for Ground number 106 - according to the diagrams, this is the ground for the ignition. Found Ground number 104, which is by the washer bottle. Picture of the components kind of hard to read when so many wires go into the same general area (around the starter relay).
Latest update for those who are interested, or who are also troubleshooting a no-start condition on a '93 Mustang LX 3.3L :
1) Replaced ICM after informed that this part commonly fails on 2.3L Rangers - still no start.
2) Verified fuel delivery by turning key on for a few seconds, then opening the schrader valve on the fuel rail. Plenty of fuel.
Looking for Ground number 106 - according to the diagrams, this is the ground for the ignition. Found Ground number 104, which is by the washer bottle. Picture of the components kind of hard to read when so many wires go into the same general area (around the starter relay).
bonestock87
Founding Member
TripleBlk - I just did a 2.3 turbo and T5 swap on my 93. Do you need another ECM to see if that's your issue? I have the D1L1 (I think that's the ECM's code) that I will send you no cost. My car was an automatic, but it should work fine if you have a manual tranny. I don't mind to box up the ICM and coil packs if you want those too. My car ran great before my swap so I would think you'd have good parts. The ICM is only a year to year and a half old. Heck anything you think you might need that'll help that I didn't use in my swap is yours, just let me know.
Parts
Thanks for your generous offer - at least let me pay for the shipping ! If you send me a private messgae here with your address - I'll send you a money order (think $25 oughta cover shipping?)
Would be great to try another ECM, ICM, and coil packs !
Thanks again for the offer of parts , man !!
Thanks for your generous offer - at least let me pay for the shipping ! If you send me a private messgae here with your address - I'll send you a money order (think $25 oughta cover shipping?)
Would be great to try another ECM, ICM, and coil packs !
Thanks again for the offer of parts , man !!
bonestock87
Founding Member
No fire in the hole(s)
In between the rain and breezy rain here from the hurricane offshore 200 miles, we swapped in the parts bonestock87 generously sent.
First up was the coil pack for the "intake side" . An easy swap, but no fire. Next up , the ICM bonestock87 had on a running '93 LX. Again, no fire. Finally the ECM (or PCM). Same result, and this computer also gives a code of "111" and passing "grades". We can hear the relays toggling on and off, and the fuel pump as well. The "SPOUT" connector is showing voltage, too.
Back to the "Green Book", Helms circuit diagram and troubleshooting book. Also, bonestock87 sent a "bag o' injectors" which we can also plug in and try. The parts store only sells "Noid lights" for Ford throttle body injectors , hmm.
In between the rain and breezy rain here from the hurricane offshore 200 miles, we swapped in the parts bonestock87 generously sent.
First up was the coil pack for the "intake side" . An easy swap, but no fire. Next up , the ICM bonestock87 had on a running '93 LX. Again, no fire. Finally the ECM (or PCM). Same result, and this computer also gives a code of "111" and passing "grades". We can hear the relays toggling on and off, and the fuel pump as well. The "SPOUT" connector is showing voltage, too.
Back to the "Green Book", Helms circuit diagram and troubleshooting book. Also, bonestock87 sent a "bag o' injectors" which we can also plug in and try. The parts store only sells "Noid lights" for Ford throttle body injectors , hmm.
bonestock87
Founding Member
Update - slight setback
There was a couple of days' delay when the battery died because the hatchback was slightly ajar.
Been using the search feature here on Stangnet and have spent a lot of time researching our "no start" issue. It sure seems that the ICM is a common point of failure on the 2.3 Mustangs and Rangers. Why the engineers mounted the ICM right on the intake in a high heat environment, we'll never know.
Well we have an ICM from a running car (thanks to bonestock87!). Also, the only code being detected is still a "111". I guess the question is now, "does the crankshaft sensor cause a code to be thrown ?" Anybody know ?
Odd thing - we found a fairly new , unattached starter relay in the bowels of the engine compartment , along with a detached vacuum hose leading to the intake.
Back to checking wiring diagrams and testing the many miles of wiring.
There was a couple of days' delay when the battery died because the hatchback was slightly ajar.
Been using the search feature here on Stangnet and have spent a lot of time researching our "no start" issue. It sure seems that the ICM is a common point of failure on the 2.3 Mustangs and Rangers. Why the engineers mounted the ICM right on the intake in a high heat environment, we'll never know.
Well we have an ICM from a running car (thanks to bonestock87!). Also, the only code being detected is still a "111". I guess the question is now, "does the crankshaft sensor cause a code to be thrown ?" Anybody know ?
Odd thing - we found a fairly new , unattached starter relay in the bowels of the engine compartment , along with a detached vacuum hose leading to the intake.
Back to checking wiring diagrams and testing the many miles of wiring.
Update #999
BTW, this car is 25 miles from me , at my son's place, so it's not like I've been slacking !!
Today's follies :
1. Removed and cleaned and re-attached all the major grounds.
2. Disconnected major connectors in engine bay ; cleaned and reconnected.
3. Disassembled connections to starter relay - cleaned and re-attached.
4. Verified fuses 5,6, 18 - all OK (#5 or # 18 is part of the fuel injector circuit, I forget which)
5. Attached "Noid" device" to injector on #1 cylinder - failed test !
6. Spark plug tester on #1 cylinder also failed test !
7. Installed "Code Reader" - system passes according to the ECM or PCM code "111" Fuel relays and fan relays functioning !
8. Tach "bounces" while cranking - from what I read here, that means the ICM is functioning.
BTW, one "minor" problem is that Ford changed the nomenclature of the components in 1993 (to comply with SAE standards), meaning searches for info on the 'net are that much more complicated.
BTW, this car is 25 miles from me , at my son's place, so it's not like I've been slacking !!
Today's follies :
1. Removed and cleaned and re-attached all the major grounds.
2. Disconnected major connectors in engine bay ; cleaned and reconnected.
3. Disassembled connections to starter relay - cleaned and re-attached.
4. Verified fuses 5,6, 18 - all OK (#5 or # 18 is part of the fuel injector circuit, I forget which)
5. Attached "Noid" device" to injector on #1 cylinder - failed test !
6. Spark plug tester on #1 cylinder also failed test !
7. Installed "Code Reader" - system passes according to the ECM or PCM code "111" Fuel relays and fan relays functioning !
8. Tach "bounces" while cranking - from what I read here, that means the ICM is functioning.
BTW, one "minor" problem is that Ford changed the nomenclature of the components in 1993 (to comply with SAE standards), meaning searches for info on the 'net are that much more complicated.
