what heads cam. . .
- Thread starter JungleJoe
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Do our horses seem excited?
It's obvious you're new to SN, Joe. Me, Brian (Gearbanger), Chris (FastDriver) and a few other guys around here have been involved in some pretty heated debates in the past. This is nothing but playful small talk, haha.
Seriously though, although my reply came of more abrupt than it was intended to, I wasn't trying to be smug, or a smart ass. Just stating my opinion, the way I would choose to do it. I see where Fastdriver & NikwoaC are coming from as well though.
....even if they are generally a couple of stupid-heads!!!
....even if they are generally a couple of stupid-heads!!!
Ok, figure I would give you guys something to think about. I have been on the LS1 bandwagon for awhile( dont bash me to much,LOL) but back in the saddle once again. Fixing to buy me some heads and a cam. Just a street car, has ac,70mm TB,edelbrock intake,stock injectors,pullies, 1 5/8 bbk shorties.bbk x-pipe, supper 44's cat back with 2 1/2 tails pipes, 373's, tko trans.....
Whats a good set of heads and cam to get? Only want ing to do this one time. . . THANKS for the opinions...
i would deff go with the trick flow kit.....
BTW i have tons of LS experience f body and corvette... a NA 400 hp stang MIGHT, and i mean MIGHT keep up with a basically stock Ls1/2... i have a couple bolt ons for the stang but my camaro is my real money pit...
BUT that new boss 302 looks like it means business....
:OT:
Am I missing something here...what do you mean might? Stock LS1's FBodies/Vettes were ever only mid/low-13-second cars. At least any of the ones I ever ran at the track were. You’d maybe squeeze a high-12-second run out of a factory freak, if all the stars were lined up correctly, but in any event, a 400hp Fox Body would murder a stock LS1 FBody/Vette and run every bit as hard as an LS2 equipped Vette or GTO on it’s worst day? Hell, my last Cougar killed stock LS1 everything’s and it only made 410hp and weighed over 4,100lbs with driver. Even the quickest stock LS2 equipped Vette's were ever only mid-12-second cars. A 400hp Mustang will easily run those kind of times.
Horsepower to weight, is still horsepower to weight, no matter what kind of hamster is spinning the wheel. GM, Ford, Dodge be damned. A 3,000lb Fox Body with 400hp on tap is a deep 11-second car all things being equal and more than a match for stock LS1/LS2 factory cars.
Huh?
:Word:
Like I've said before, the LS is a fantastic engine, but it isn't magic, and I HATE when people act as if it is. 400hp is 400hp and a Fox with 400hp would embarrass a stock LS1 any day of the week. The LS1 doesn't get the win just because it's an LS1.
My H/C/I 302 ran an [email protected] mph. It made 311rwhp on the dyno and after a CAI was added, maybe a little clower to 320 rhwp, or about 376 crank hp. In my experience, stock LS1s were no contest.... For them it was embarrassing. Even with 4.10s, my stang still pulled hard from a roll. I think the idea that a 400hp stang "MIGHT" keep up is an underestimation of the stang. Hell, the heavy ass 2011s blow the doors off of the LS1s with 412. The fox is hundreds of lbs lighter.
Brian, it's a good point. There's definitely an inherent advantage in low-end torque with a stroker, and less boost. The low-end is something you tend to focus on pretty closely. That's why you like strokers and a PD blowers to a 302s and a centris.
I personally absolutely love Rio 95's combo. - a 67mm turbo, with explorer heads, a street heat intake, and a TFS 1 cam puts 472rwhp and 580 ft-lbs of torque to the ground through a stock shortblock (I think). To me, that's the way to do it. Cheap but effective top-end components, a cheap and efficient turbo, and loads of hp and low end (to me) torque. The hp curve is also so flat that I doubt you'd see much of a difference in ETs/traps whether you shifted at 5300 or 5800.
So for me, rather than go stroked and blown, I'd go not stroked and turboed.... But, we've all been through that talk before so I digress.
I personally absolutely love Rio 95's combo. - a 67mm turbo, with explorer heads, a street heat intake, and a TFS 1 cam puts 472rwhp and 580 ft-lbs of torque to the ground through a stock shortblock (I think). To me, that's the way to do it. Cheap but effective top-end components, a cheap and efficient turbo, and loads of hp and low end (to me) torque. The hp curve is also so flat that I doubt you'd see much of a difference in ETs/traps whether you shifted at 5300 or 5800.
So for me, rather than go stroked and blown, I'd go not stroked and turboed.... But, we've all been through that talk before so I digress.
Brian, Nik, and Chris all in agreement in the same thread? This is outrageous! Can I change my mind? I think 400hp Mustangs are slow!
Someone say LS1??....LOL I Now we are talking about something I just happen to know about very well. I mean I love my stang, but those LS1's mean some serious buisness. You can do a cam ONLY swap and be damn near at 400 HP AND still get 20+ MPG.....
Damn I was enjoying this nice weather, now it's going to snow in August....
What's happening!???!!!
The 190's or 194's, which ever come in them, they are not 202's.... oh, and its getting a Vortech for sure!! Just not right yet
My brother wants those heads now, so i think I'm just going to get a set from Rick91GT....trickflows probably....
said might in the first place because i own both... my stang isnt near 400hp but my ls1 99z28 with stock ls6 heads/intake/tb and street suspension/tires eats up 400hp STREET stangs all day... now if you put track slicks/weight reduction on that same 400hp stang of course youll beat a stock ls1/2...
as much as i love stang (now because i have learned how awesome ford small blocks are and mustangs are super sick w/ aftermarket support and cheaper too) there is no comparing ls1 in stock trim to mid/highly modded 302/strockers...
look at head flow numbers, injectors seizing, stock stroke, stock rpm limit... there is a reason why fords only motor to even come close to the ls1/2 has a blower and comes in a 70k car...
i know i sound like kind of a biased but the proof is in the pudding and number charts.... 400 hp stangs are great but thats not even 100 more hp than a stock f body ls1... plus with gm's t56 or 4l60/80e auto trans' 1-2 shift is at 45mph with stock gears... with my t5 in my stang with 373:1 1st gear is only good till like 30 or so...
im just saying, my friends 93 cobra w a v2 blower and bolt ons makes almost 410hp to the ground and when my 99z28 was stock id still have him by half a car length. And with nitto nt050r tires hed have me out of the hole till i hit second then still my stock Z would catch him around 60mph.... now i have almost 500 FWHP (stock tune zo6 maf) in the Z and and full BMR suspension w/ vett rims and i have passed up every 03-04 cobra i see on highway 101... and only one shelby gt500.. (i dont think he knew what he was doin though) still for under 10k total in my Z including the price of the car... im smoking cars double and even triple my price tag..... the only stang i have been smoked by is a 90fox w/ a 347 stroker w/ v2 blower and lots of other chassis mods, build AOD, far far from stock.....
and thats all i have to say about that...
as much as i love stang (now because i have learned how awesome ford small blocks are and mustangs are super sick w/ aftermarket support and cheaper too) there is no comparing ls1 in stock trim to mid/highly modded 302/strockers...
look at head flow numbers, injectors seizing, stock stroke, stock rpm limit... there is a reason why fords only motor to even come close to the ls1/2 has a blower and comes in a 70k car...
i know i sound like kind of a biased but the proof is in the pudding and number charts.... 400 hp stangs are great but thats not even 100 more hp than a stock f body ls1... plus with gm's t56 or 4l60/80e auto trans' 1-2 shift is at 45mph with stock gears... with my t5 in my stang with 373:1 1st gear is only good till like 30 or so...
im just saying, my friends 93 cobra w a v2 blower and bolt ons makes almost 410hp to the ground and when my 99z28 was stock id still have him by half a car length. And with nitto nt050r tires hed have me out of the hole till i hit second then still my stock Z would catch him around 60mph.... now i have almost 500 FWHP (stock tune zo6 maf) in the Z and and full BMR suspension w/ vett rims and i have passed up every 03-04 cobra i see on highway 101... and only one shelby gt500.. (i dont think he knew what he was doin though) still for under 10k total in my Z including the price of the car... im smoking cars double and even triple my price tag..... the only stang i have been smoked by is a 90fox w/ a 347 stroker w/ v2 blower and lots of other chassis mods, build AOD, far far from stock.....
and thats all i have to say about that...
btw the ls1 is a motor produced since like 1997... the new 5.0 w/412hp is a brand new engine.... and just to upgrade to the boss 302 package costs more than what i bought my camaro for.. lol
i mean, engine specs and hp numbers are only part of the equation... chassis, weight, gearing, tires are almost just as important in ET times... and in theory your right, modded 400hp would beat 315hp any day. but take into account ls series motors have more of a flat torque curve. besides, most stang-bangers that have 400hp modd more than just the motors to get times under 12... i threw hoosier 8 inch slicks on my f-body with a short throw shifter and CAI and ran 11.83 my very first run at the track... thats with stock suspension... with my mods now i can probably run mid 11's all day and im not the greatest on the tree either... im telling you.. a 400hp stang with ONLY motor mods will never beat a completely stock ls1 f-body let alone a corvette with an ls1/2.
and most guys that have an ls1/2 equipped car dont have many mods done to them cuz they dont know what to do to them... stangs on the other hand owners do alot more with them thats why AT THE TRACK you see more guys with ls1/2s suck...
very true... but if youd put hoosier 8inch slicks on a stock f body 98-02, it will run deep 11's.... so yea a 400hp stang is equal to a stock ls1/2.... my point exactly!..
Well, why didn't you say so?
Make up your mind...are we comparing a stock LS1, or one that had to change its entire top end? Having to add the LS6 top end to the engine kind of kills your "stock" argument, don't you think? Running "stock" GM parts, doesn't qalify it as a "stock" engine. I mean...I could put a "stock" 5.0 TiVCT engine in my Coupe and run 11's all day long....but that doesn't exactly make it a stock era Mustang, now does it?Errrrrr....yeah, but it's still......100 more horsepower!?! And in a car that weighs 200-300lbs less to boot. I'm not sure what pudding you're eating, but in the real world, the odds don't look good for the F-Body.
Wait...so because you beat your buddies '93 Cobra, that makes all 400hp Mustangs slow? There are several dozen members in this particular forum that would love to be your Huckleberry on that one.
....sure it will. You do know what the word "stock" means, right?So what's your point? The 5.0L OHV you're comparing the LSX engine to was produced back in 1968. What does it matter how old the engine is?
Look...the LSX wasn't a mechanical marvel. GM made large cube engines, with a high flow H/C/I package and made power. That's not exactly what I would call impressive. Guys have been adding big H/C/I packages to large displacement strokers for over a decade and making as good, or better power than that.
GM would have impressed me if they pulled those kinds of power numbers of a small displacement engine like Ford has....but they couldn't. They always went with the "bigger = better" formula. In some ways it worked (it appeased the horsepower junkies), but in the end couldn’t save the car and the 4th Gen FBody crashed and burned. When all is said and done though, they're still just the big bully picking on the underdog. Nothing special there?
The fact that the new 5.0L TiVCT nearly matches the horsepower and torque figures of the much larger 6.2L LS3 V8 while pulling cleaner emissions and knocking out 30mpg is frigging astounding. And running 11's off the show room floor in a full weight car, with nothing more than tires, 10’s with tires and basic suspension and bolt ons and deep-10’s with a small shot of giggle gas on top of it all is frigging incredible!!! And that’s all without even removing a valve cover….now that it something to be impressed by!!!
