Control arms on a budget?
- Thread starter pissedoff92
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I just bought a MM prop valve eliminator kit, fox to sn95 master cyl kit and a prop valve from MM with the money I saved buying my black friday SVE weight jackers. Does that create a rip in the time space fabric? Did we just discover the higgs boson??
Wythors will now respond and wish me happy holidays....and that my LCAs fail in a humiliating and public way. *wink*
...and they really do look JUST like the MMs. Thats not my fault. I looked them over, they seem well built. I'm sure they are a ripoff.
Go China!
*bad troll runs away*
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Dan in ND
'89 'vert GT undergoing full resto.
Wythors will now respond and wish me happy holidays....and that my LCAs fail in a humiliating and public way. *wink*
...and they really do look JUST like the MMs. Thats not my fault. I looked them over, they seem well built. I'm sure they are a ripoff.
Go China!
*bad troll runs away*
--
Dan in ND
'89 'vert GT undergoing full resto.
Sharad
ALWAYS choose the V over the P!!! Wait... what?
I'd be really interested to see a mag do a comparison on the "cheap" VS the good stuff.
I'd also be willing to wager that for 90% of everyone on here whose car see's mostly street/ occasional track use, that there is absolutely nothing to gain from spending any more money than required to do away w/ the stock arms.
Vibrant Red has already pointed out that even the American stuff get's by the quality control guy too, His example of Steeda going the extra mile to fix the collateral damage was made possible because they were that close to him. If that had happened to somebody living 1000 mi away, I'd dare say that Steeda would've still made reparations, but only by replacing the LCA's.
Just like JRichter (and the publisher of one of the Mustang Chassis books out there) pointed out earlier, a reinforced stock arm w/ new bushings will probably satisfy that need as a hard to beat mod by only the best made products out there. And that "best made product out there" is more than any street car rolling on 245 street rubber will ever benefit from.
Now I may be talking out of my ass (again),
and the comparison may show that a cheap replacement control arm gets killed by a better one driving it on the street, but until I see that, I'll modify my stock ones w/ plate and new bushings (Steeda Bushings). And only then because the durometer of their bushing is closer to stock.
I always find it amusing that we go out and modify our cars sacrificing driveability every time in favor of performance. Getting your balls jarred off by an ultra rigid suspension that'll drop the lap time by a second just so you can drive the car to Sonic seems a little..... out of touch. A few guys throw in the towel after enduring all of the bangs, creaks and groans for a couple of years and post a "returning back to stock thread". Talk about throwing your money away.
Consider the intended usage of the car and modify it accordingly. If you're gonna street drive it mostly, I'd be more concerned on how stiff the bushings were first. Let the guy that sells the stuff know that and do some homework. learn what makes a C/A different rather than what country it was made in. Then you'll be more happy rather than just knowing you spent over 300.00 for a set of upper and Lower C/A's
I'd also be willing to wager that for 90% of everyone on here whose car see's mostly street/ occasional track use, that there is absolutely nothing to gain from spending any more money than required to do away w/ the stock arms.
Vibrant Red has already pointed out that even the American stuff get's by the quality control guy too, His example of Steeda going the extra mile to fix the collateral damage was made possible because they were that close to him. If that had happened to somebody living 1000 mi away, I'd dare say that Steeda would've still made reparations, but only by replacing the LCA's.
Just like JRichter (and the publisher of one of the Mustang Chassis books out there) pointed out earlier, a reinforced stock arm w/ new bushings will probably satisfy that need as a hard to beat mod by only the best made products out there. And that "best made product out there" is more than any street car rolling on 245 street rubber will ever benefit from.
Now I may be talking out of my ass (again),
and the comparison may show that a cheap replacement control arm gets killed by a better one driving it on the street, but until I see that, I'll modify my stock ones w/ plate and new bushings (Steeda Bushings). And only then because the durometer of their bushing is closer to stock.I always find it amusing that we go out and modify our cars sacrificing driveability every time in favor of performance. Getting your balls jarred off by an ultra rigid suspension that'll drop the lap time by a second just so you can drive the car to Sonic seems a little..... out of touch. A few guys throw in the towel after enduring all of the bangs, creaks and groans for a couple of years and post a "returning back to stock thread". Talk about throwing your money away.
Consider the intended usage of the car and modify it accordingly. If you're gonna street drive it mostly, I'd be more concerned on how stiff the bushings were first. Let the guy that sells the stuff know that and do some homework. learn what makes a C/A different rather than what country it was made in. Then you'll be more happy rather than just knowing you spent over 300.00 for a set of upper and Lower C/A's
SteedaGus
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2vNotch
Active Member
I use both sve control arms and their lowering springs and i gotta say, both great pieces for the budget minded! 
OiDALE
Member
SteedaGus, Thats a great selling point by any means...But on the other hand whats the thinkness of our original stock ford ones??? Its probably even thinner and more flimsy then the cheapest chinese brand.
Yes boxing the stockers would be sufficient but why not spend the $130-180 and buy a nice set of boxed ones that not only are going to be stronger OVER stock but come with new bushings.
The key to the breakdown on the chinese bushings are to NOT grease them even though they come with the fittings. Ask LMR/50Resto, they will tell you about the many complaints about bushings falling apart because of the grease. Rather, you buy some bushing grease and dress it on the sides and on the vehicle where they slide on and thats all you have to do with them...
SteedaGus, By any means am I steering anyone from steeda's product-they are very well peices and work great...But for the budget minded with a very minal income that will like to benefit from the feel and help to reduce wheel hop the answer is a bit clearer.
Yes boxing the stockers would be sufficient but why not spend the $130-180 and buy a nice set of boxed ones that not only are going to be stronger OVER stock but come with new bushings.
The key to the breakdown on the chinese bushings are to NOT grease them even though they come with the fittings. Ask LMR/50Resto, they will tell you about the many complaints about bushings falling apart because of the grease. Rather, you buy some bushing grease and dress it on the sides and on the vehicle where they slide on and thats all you have to do with them...
SteedaGus, By any means am I steering anyone from steeda's product-they are very well peices and work great...But for the budget minded with a very minal income that will like to benefit from the feel and help to reduce wheel hop the answer is a bit clearer.
Interesting in what sense? Posting up a cut away picture of an obviously thrashed high mileage, highly abused brand "X" control arm beside a cut away of a brand new, zero mile, polished and primmed Steeda arm and calling it an unbiased comparison?On that subject, here is an interesting comparison.......
No offence Gus, but your comparison might be a little more convincing if you posted up a picture of the cutaway of a Steeda arm, that's gone through the same amount of abuse that this other one has.
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SteedaGus
Premium Sponsor
You are missing the whole point. You can't see the difference in wall thickness and material between the 2 pieces? Extra reinforcement in a high stress area on ours, 3 piece bushings design? Its all there if you look. It is all about construction and design.
I find your response quite interesting, since every one else who we've shown this picture to has spotted the obvious differences quite easily.
What that picture doesnt show is how thin the axle side bracket is on the competitors arm. I can literally squeeze the bracket and budge it with my hands. Some people might not care about that, but I would not want a flimsy piece like that on my car. And that is what you can expect with many of the lower quality pieces out there.
Gus
Gus, I can appreciate the build quality of your arms, and for Danny drag race, and Rodney road course they more than make sense. Your comparison still doesn't justify how an arm of that obvious build quality will benefit the average street car.
Your comparison was equivalent to putting a stock block next to a dart. While obviously way better built and highly durable, there are way more cars out there running the former as opposed to the latter for the very same reasons.
Gus, I can appreciate the build quality of your arms, and for Danny drag race, and Rodney road course they more than make sense. Your comparison still doesn't justify how an arm of that obvious build quality will benefit the average street car.
Your comparison was equivalent to putting a stock block next to a dart. While obviously way better built and highly durable, there are way more cars out there running the former as opposed to the latter for the very same reasons.
I can see the point you're trying to make Mike, but I'm going to have to say I disagree. I have Steeda's high end control arms on my STREET car and I love them. It completely transformed the way the car handles over the stock pieces.
And I still have to say that there is no way any of that flimsy junk will ever find its way underneath my car. That picture that Gus posted really hits it home, IMO. This is really why there is no sense in the "but it looks the same on the outside" reasoning. Thinner tube wall thickness, less weld bead, less weld penetration, inferior bushings, and Lord knows they are probably using inferior steel is some of these cheaper knock offs. I'd use stock control arms before I ever ran crap like that.
Gus, are you at liberty to say what brand those control arms are? Maybe you can send it to me in a PM...?
And I still have to say that there is no way any of that flimsy junk will ever find its way underneath my car. That picture that Gus posted really hits it home, IMO. This is really why there is no sense in the "but it looks the same on the outside" reasoning. Thinner tube wall thickness, less weld bead, less weld penetration, inferior bushings, and Lord knows they are probably using inferior steel is some of these cheaper knock offs. I'd use stock control arms before I ever ran crap like that.
Gus, are you at liberty to say what brand those control arms are? Maybe you can send it to me in a PM...?
Your testimonial doesn't carry water Nik. You are only comparing the previous stockers to the replacement high end units you jumped straight to. You have no point of reference between what a "junk Chinese arm" performed like against the units you currently have on there. I get it that you like what you bought and for me, I always like it better when I travel the high road as well. But if Steedas' arms are better because they are thick, the skinny chrome moly arms UPR sells must automatically suck. You did not mention on whether or not your rear end groans, snaps, pops, thumps (or whatever other adjective you want to use to describe added NVH as a result of running arms intended for track use on a STREET car)
OiDALE
Member
Mike, I have the aluminum Steeda arms on my 'vert, been on there for about 6 or so years and have no additional noise from the rear end. No thumping or groaning or squeaking. Not knocking any other brand but my experience with the steeda arms has been way above par (as is every Steeda part I have on my car) and when it comes time for arms on our 01 it will either be Steeda or MM.
You're right, but I have the peace of mind that my Steeda arms aren't going to fall apart on me. I've seen at least a dozen examples of "budget" rear control arms that have come apart on people. Like I said earlier, suspension and brakes are two areas I refuse to cheap out on.
BTW, UPR is American made with good steel, so I'm not convinced their stuff is junk. Chromoly is good
, I've had a couple chromoly bikes in my day that I never was able to break!Also, I'm a firm believer that there is a lot to be said about bushing design, and as you can see, companies like Steeda have put a lot of thought into that area. There's some science to control arms, you can't just weld some steel together and stick some rubber on the ends and call it good.
I dunno, man. I guess what I do know for sure is that I have a car that handles pretty damn good, and even though my quad shocks are long gone, I have never experienced any wheel hop with the Steeda arms. Also, I have exactly zero groaning or squeaking or any other noise from my control arms.
My final point and then I'll get off my soap box.
I'm not saying that Steeda ( or any other premium brand) arms are not great stuff.
I'm simply saying that for street use, until somebody shows me a valid comparison of low end VS high end justifying the reason for the investment, I question why spend that much money so I can zip through some stretch of twisty road.
I'm not saying that Steeda ( or any other premium brand) arms are not great stuff.
I'm simply saying that for street use, until somebody shows me a valid comparison of low end VS high end justifying the reason for the investment, I question why spend that much money so I can zip through some stretch of twisty road.
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