kirkyg
Founding Member
Official Tremec 3650 Issues Thread
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Just got back from a meeting w/ Ford Field service engineer. He clarified the P/N confusion from my above post:
"AC" rev was for earler builds
"AE" rev is latest
"AB" is for the 6 speed (that's why it's a $1000 more)
He said the trany they took out and put in were the latest "AE" rev. I offered to pay the difference for the six speed, he said no. He recommend I use it and hope it really breaks before the warranty is up, or they come up with a real fix.
My old '88 5.0 went 200K miles, still with the original clutch and driveline, was a great car. I can't imagine driving this for the next 14 years with this problem
I'm bummed, there seems to be no identified solution, even the guy with the 03 Mach 1 has the problem. I'm on board with the lawsuit, but really we need some transmission engineers involved to identify the root cause. They don't all have this problem do they? If they it would be a design flaw, if some do and some don't, there is something different inside. I do mechanical reliability engineering / failure analysis for a living. If you took two tranys apart, one with the problem, one without, you could measure / analysis the parts to get to the root cause. This is what's needed by Tremac / Ford.
The problem described as occuring only on "the first few miles of driving" seeks to minimize it. I drive 10 miles back and forth to work, short trips around town, 95% of my time in the cars it doesn't shift right.
"AC" rev was for earler builds
"AE" rev is latest
"AB" is for the 6 speed (that's why it's a $1000 more)
He said the trany they took out and put in were the latest "AE" rev. I offered to pay the difference for the six speed, he said no. He recommend I use it and hope it really breaks before the warranty is up, or they come up with a real fix.
My old '88 5.0 went 200K miles, still with the original clutch and driveline, was a great car. I can't imagine driving this for the next 14 years with this problem
I'm bummed, there seems to be no identified solution, even the guy with the 03 Mach 1 has the problem. I'm on board with the lawsuit, but really we need some transmission engineers involved to identify the root cause. They don't all have this problem do they? If they it would be a design flaw, if some do and some don't, there is something different inside. I do mechanical reliability engineering / failure analysis for a living. If you took two tranys apart, one with the problem, one without, you could measure / analysis the parts to get to the root cause. This is what's needed by Tremac / Ford.
The problem described as occuring only on "the first few miles of driving" seeks to minimize it. I drive 10 miles back and forth to work, short trips around town, 95% of my time in the cars it doesn't shift right.
Mustom
You have the AE revision and there is still grinding/clunking?
So Tremec hasn't fixed it with the latest revision.
Do the people with no issues have a different revision level or is the problem hit or miss. It appears to be hit or miss. What variables are there that can cause this condition? We know that the temperature plays a key roll in the severity of the grind/clunk. Temperature=viscosity of the fluid? But, many people have had the fluid change with no difference in performance. (Mine actually has become random since the fluid change.)
I have two theories on root cause of this at the this point in my quest.
1. I am think that the problem might be there on all of them from the factory, but those who live in cold climates damage the syncros when they drive in the cold. The lower temperatures increases the viscosity of the fluid, prevents proper lubrication and cause a metal on metal condition which damage or scuffs something in the trans.
2. There might be variables in the assembly of the trans. It could range from a tolerance stack up issue. Different lots of material used to build key components..syncros...
But the fact that you had a "new" one installed and it did it right away may cancel out Theory #1. Was it cold when you had the work done? What level of remanufacturing is done on these trans...Were the syncros changed?
This problem needs to be fixed. It is not an annoyance, but a dangerous condition. I live on a busy street and need to be able to shift to 2nd with out having to pause, double clutch, wiggle it in neutral.
You have the AE revision and there is still grinding/clunking?
So Tremec hasn't fixed it with the latest revision.
Do the people with no issues have a different revision level or is the problem hit or miss. It appears to be hit or miss. What variables are there that can cause this condition? We know that the temperature plays a key roll in the severity of the grind/clunk. Temperature=viscosity of the fluid? But, many people have had the fluid change with no difference in performance. (Mine actually has become random since the fluid change.)
I have two theories on root cause of this at the this point in my quest.
1. I am think that the problem might be there on all of them from the factory, but those who live in cold climates damage the syncros when they drive in the cold. The lower temperatures increases the viscosity of the fluid, prevents proper lubrication and cause a metal on metal condition which damage or scuffs something in the trans.
2. There might be variables in the assembly of the trans. It could range from a tolerance stack up issue. Different lots of material used to build key components..syncros...
But the fact that you had a "new" one installed and it did it right away may cancel out Theory #1. Was it cold when you had the work done? What level of remanufacturing is done on these trans...Were the syncros changed?
This problem needs to be fixed. It is not an annoyance, but a dangerous condition. I live on a busy street and need to be able to shift to 2nd with out having to pause, double clutch, wiggle it in neutral.
same problem here
Same issue here. The car (2003 GT, purchased 3/29/03 with 30 miles on the odo.) has exhibited the 1-2 clunk/grind since brand new. I figured once the trans and shifter were broken in, it the condition would go away. So such luck so far. 3500 miles, and the condition still exists.
Same issue here. The car (2003 GT, purchased 3/29/03 with 30 miles on the odo.) has exhibited the 1-2 clunk/grind since brand new. I figured once the trans and shifter were broken in, it the condition would go away. So such luck so far. 3500 miles, and the condition still exists.
Kirkg,
As soon as my transmission was replaced I installed a Pro50 shifter with the stops correctly ajusted. No better. The new trans grinds on the 1-2 and somtimes notchy on the 2-3. I have changed the fluid twice in 20k mi with Mobil 1, with friction modifier and without. I see alot of brass in the oil too. I have never been to a track or anything.
The dealer has since "taken pics" of my shifter and eveytime I call Ford they say "what is this about a shifter you have installed?" The dealer had damaged my shifter and I made them buy me a new one. I tried to get help from another dealer and they said to go back to the dealer that installed the trans. Ford gave me the same line... I don't know what to do. I figure I will take it in when 2nd gear is gone.
Sorry so long,
Matt.
Ford makes a great product. The Mustang is an excellent product. I own 2 Mustangs. I own a 2001 GT and a 2002 Mustang 6 cylinder. I LOVE both cars a lot. I think that the Mustang has come a long way from the time when it looked like the Mitsubishi Eclipse back in 1994 to 1998. Don't worry. You all got really nice cars. Be thankful that you don't own a ricer like the Honda or Toyota cars. They are worse than the Ford Mustang.
Houseisafeelin
New Member
I am not a lawyer and I do not know anyone involved in law so I don't know what the first step that would be taken to get some sort of case against Ford. But would someone please step up and help us make the first move, I'm sick fighting with my tranny every time I drive the car. It's my first new car and it sickens me that the thought of getting rid of it and taking a massive financial loss crosses my mind to often.
Houseisafeelin
New Member
If someone does know the necessary steps needed and is ready to start the ball rolling against Ford PM or Email me if I can do anything to help.
I wonder if firmer motor/trans. mounts would help this problem. I really feel my '01 GT has the softest mounts of any car I've ever driven.
If there is a class action lawsuit about this, I don't want the compensation to consist of Ford techs tearing my car apart and "fixing" the problem. I will take a check. I agree with the person who said that overall the 3650 is the best 5 speed Ford has ever sold.
And don't even get me started on the T56. Sure, it's durable. It ought to be, considering how heavy it is, how large the parasitic loss is, how steep first gear is compared to the T3650, etc. Am I the only person who's noticed that the T56 has a numerically lower first gear than the T3650 as well as a numerically higher overdrive gear? How in the hell are we supposed to select a rear axle ratio for the T56? You'll need 4.10s to get the same overall mechanical advantage in first gear as the T3650 has with 3.27s, but b/c sixth gear is lower than fifth on the T3650 you'll be revving the motor even more than you would with 4.10s and the stock trans. Nice.
So I will take my T3650 over the T56 any day of the week.
If there is a class action lawsuit about this, I don't want the compensation to consist of Ford techs tearing my car apart and "fixing" the problem. I will take a check. I agree with the person who said that overall the 3650 is the best 5 speed Ford has ever sold.
And don't even get me started on the T56. Sure, it's durable. It ought to be, considering how heavy it is, how large the parasitic loss is, how steep first gear is compared to the T3650, etc. Am I the only person who's noticed that the T56 has a numerically lower first gear than the T3650 as well as a numerically higher overdrive gear? How in the hell are we supposed to select a rear axle ratio for the T56? You'll need 4.10s to get the same overall mechanical advantage in first gear as the T3650 has with 3.27s, but b/c sixth gear is lower than fifth on the T3650 you'll be revving the motor even more than you would with 4.10s and the stock trans. Nice.
So I will take my T3650 over the T56 any day of the week.
mr_speedvision
New Member
radrb8
New Member
You might wanna go see some LS1 forums before you do that
. See what problems GM won't fix. It's no better on the other side.BTW, my 03 has a hard 1 to 2 shift also.
psnous
Founding Member
Well I have a long story, that's still going, but I'll try to keep it short.
I have a '01 Cobra bought in Sept of '01 built in July of '01
4800 miles hard to get in first, notchy shifting, eventually popped out of second. Repaired with supposedly updated parts.
10,300 miles same thing, tranny replaced
13,800 same thing, distrct engineer for dealer denies warranty, says nothing wrong on Fords part, broke due to my abuse.
Car is bone stock except for wheels,mufflers, and CAI.
Went through disspute settlement board, denied, sided with district rep
Went through KS Attorney General, denied, sided with district rep
I work at the assembly plany here in Kansas City and am in the process of getting help through my work by having someone at my work deal with someone at Dearborn assembly.
I did get someone to warraty my tranny at a different dealer that's outside the distict reps area.
The other dealership tore my trannt apart to inspect it,then put it all in a box in my trunk(another long story)
Then the dealership that's fixing it said parts were missing and that there were parts in the box that don't even go in my tranny.
Anyway all is back together, dealer drove it, don't want to go in first gear, so Monday morn he's going to call the tech line and see if he can just get a new tranny
..........the saga continues 18 months and counting
I have a '01 Cobra bought in Sept of '01 built in July of '01
4800 miles hard to get in first, notchy shifting, eventually popped out of second. Repaired with supposedly updated parts.
10,300 miles same thing, tranny replaced
13,800 same thing, distrct engineer for dealer denies warranty, says nothing wrong on Fords part, broke due to my abuse.
Car is bone stock except for wheels,mufflers, and CAI.
Went through disspute settlement board, denied, sided with district rep
Went through KS Attorney General, denied, sided with district rep
I work at the assembly plany here in Kansas City and am in the process of getting help through my work by having someone at my work deal with someone at Dearborn assembly.
I did get someone to warraty my tranny at a different dealer that's outside the distict reps area.
The other dealership tore my trannt apart to inspect it,then put it all in a box in my trunk(another long story)
Then the dealership that's fixing it said parts were missing and that there were parts in the box that don't even go in my tranny.
Anyway all is back together, dealer drove it, don't want to go in first gear, so Monday morn he's going to call the tech line and see if he can just get a new tranny
..........the saga continues 18 months and counting
I have 7500 miles on my 2003 GT. I just had the TR 3650 go out. The first gear syncro is messed up, 2nd gear is GONE, 5th and reverse shift rail was bent, and the pressure plate and clutch fork were no good. I have only gone to the drag strip a few times, and my car is stock. I have no power adders, nor have I done any tire smoking burnouts. Guess they're just primed for failure.
My friends '99 GT with T-45 has 106,000 miles on it, with the last oil change at 75,000 miles, never had the tranny serviced, does tire shredding burn outs, drives like Mario Andretti everywhere, and still does 14.01 in 1/4. No problems on his car. I have my 03 for 5 months, baby it, and it is falling apart faster than Ford can fix it. Me and my car are on first name basis with the service advisors and some of the techs at the dealership. I got a good attorney.....the Lemon Law has to have a loop hole. I haven't had three breaks on one item yet, but I lost count after the 4th thing went wrong: hood cracked, radio quit working, paint came off, exhaust fell off, seats came undone and ripped, carpet rolled up and came out, and the ABS didn't work; the light never came on, and it locked up everytime the brakes were applied.
My friends '99 GT with T-45 has 106,000 miles on it, with the last oil change at 75,000 miles, never had the tranny serviced, does tire shredding burn outs, drives like Mario Andretti everywhere, and still does 14.01 in 1/4. No problems on his car. I have my 03 for 5 months, baby it, and it is falling apart faster than Ford can fix it. Me and my car are on first name basis with the service advisors and some of the techs at the dealership. I got a good attorney.....the Lemon Law has to have a loop hole. I haven't had three breaks on one item yet, but I lost count after the 4th thing went wrong: hood cracked, radio quit working, paint came off, exhaust fell off, seats came undone and ripped, carpet rolled up and came out, and the ABS didn't work; the light never came on, and it locked up everytime the brakes were applied.
2002 GT
Went to the dealership total of 3 times. 1st try they changed my tranny oil to synthetic (like it'll fix it lol), 2nd try they craked open the tranny and realized syncro mesh was blocking so replaced, 3rd simply told me they've done what they can....bottom line, it's still doing it...
Eric
Went to the dealership total of 3 times. 1st try they changed my tranny oil to synthetic (like it'll fix it lol), 2nd try they craked open the tranny and realized syncro mesh was blocking so replaced, 3rd simply told me they've done what they can....bottom line, it's still doing it...
Eric
