Later model Mustang mini starter in 67

[Indy]

I have a 1967 convertible with a 289 that I am redoing. Well I just put the engine back in and tried bolting up my new headers and of course the passenger side hits the massive starter. I have one of the newer mini starters out of an early 1990s Mustang (I think it came from a 4 cyl. manual vehicle but I am unaware of any differences between that and a 302, perhaps flywheel tooth number). What I want to know is will that mini starter work (it seems to bolt up fine but I don't know if it will engage) and how would I wire it up? I figure I would bypass the starter solenoid and go straight to the starter but there is a little black wire on the starter that I don't know what to do with.

Thanks,

Trevor

 

[Strokedd66]

Trevor,

I don't know if the starter you have will engage or not (Probably not because it’s for a 4Cyl.). But it's not uncommon to use the late model mini starters on early motors with long tube headers (I have a high torque mini on mine). You just need to call a parts house for the correct part number to match you’re Bell & Flywheel combo.

To wire a mini, you run a long Red Battery cable from the "Hot" post of the solenoid (the one with cable going to the positive post on your bat) to the big post on the starter. Then run a Red 12 gauge wire from the small wire on the starter to the original solenoid location for the stock starter. Make sure the Block is well grounded.

Here's a link to my site showing the solenoid wiring. Although the positive cable isn't attached to the batery, you'll can get an idea of what I'm talking about.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rpdrnr/_uimages/EngineBay6ALAirGap.Jpg

 

[302 coupe]

get one for 93 5.0 mustang, part number is 3205, make sure to get a lifetime warranty one, they are too expensive to worry about having to replace. should be between $110-120.

 

[Indy]

Anyone know of a good way to figure out if the starter will work? I am going to try asking the parts guys at the local dealer and parts shops but that might not work. As for the wiring, the little 12 gauge wire goes back to the "Cold" side of the solenoid?

 

[302 coupe]

Anyone know of a good way to figure out if the starter will work? I am going to try asking the parts guys at the local dealer and parts shops but that might not work. As for the wiring, the little 12 gauge wire goes back to the "Cold" side of the solenoid?

I work at a parts store, the starters will not interchange. According to the buyers guide, it lists the 4 cyl starter as fitting only 4 cyl engines. The difference is likely the depth to which the starter engages, or the number of teeth on the gear.

If I remember correctly, when I did mine, I hooked the small wire to the 'start' terminal on the fender mounted solenoid. This effectively bypasses the fender mounted solenoid, now when you turn the key to start, the signal is sent to the starter mounted solenoid. I grounded the block to the frame and the body with ground straps as the new starter seemed to be more sensitive to grounding. Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[Indy]

Well, I traded in my starter and got a starter for a 1993 5.0, but I am still a little confused on the wiring part.

First, I hook the 12 volt+ cable for the starter to the "Hot" side terminal of the original starter solenoid (this is the same terminal you hook the battery to). So basically I am hooking directly to the battery... Then I hook the small wire to the other side of the original solenoid. Is that what you guys have been saying?

This just doesn't seem right. Aren't both starter hookups (the small and big wires) getting 12 volts when I turn the key? If the big cable is hooked up to constant juice and the small wire is hooked up to the other side of the original starter solenoid, wouldn't the small wire be getting power when the power as well when the key is turned?

 

[67bluestang]

Well, I traded in my starter and got a starter for a 1993 5.0, but I am still a little confused on the wiring part.

First, I hook the 12 volt+ cable for the starter to the "Hot" side terminal of the original starter solenoid (this is the same terminal you hook the battery to). So basically I am hooking directly to the battery... Then I hook the small wire to the other side of the original solenoid. Is that what you guys have been saying?

This just doesn't seem right. Aren't both starter hookups (the small and big wires) getting 12 volts when I turn the key? If the big cable is hooked up to constant juice and the small wire is hooked up to the other side of the original starter solenoid, wouldn't the small wire be getting power when the power as well when the key is turned?

I found the following about this:
Looking to replace that old heavy starter on your 3.8 litre V6 or 5.0 V8 Fox Capri? A good replacement is the 93-95 Ford Mustang 5.0 starter. It's smaller and lighter. It also has a higher torque rating to start your motor.

The '93 starter's wiring is *slightly* different. The starter has a solenoid on it similar to a GM starter. (The 79-86 Capris starter's solenoid is on the driver's side inner fender.)

To install the '93 starter, you'll need to install it in the bellhousing, then modify the wiring as follows.

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Unlike most repairs, you really should do this on this job.

2. Move the starter cable from the switched post on the solenoid to the side with the positive battery cable on it. This means the starter cable will ALWAYS be hot (that's ok, because we'll be using the high-current switch on the starter itself.)

3. Connect the other end of the starter cable to the high-current lug on the starter.

4. Here's where you need to add a circuit. Crimp a eye-terminal onto one end of a 14-gauge or larger wire. Bolt this terminal to the side of the old solenoid where the starter cable USED to be.

5. Run the wire along the starter cable, using wire-ties to secure it.

6. At the starter, install a female spade connector to the end of the wire and slip it onto the spade terminal on the starter.

7. That's it! -- Start the engine!

8. Go back up top and re-connect the battery.

9. Start the engine for real, this time.
========================================
Actually, i used the Ford solenoid on my GM race car. I would think the same thing could be done here and not use the extra 12 or 14 gauge wire. Just leave the large battery cable from the switched side of the solenoid to the big post on the mini. Then just jumper to the small terminal with a 12 gauge wire. That way, the large wire wouldn't be hot that's going to the starter. I just ordered a mini for my 67, so i'll see if it works.
JF

 

[Indy]

Well I guess both wire's are supposed to get power. Thanks for the help.

 

[302 coupe]

Well I guess both wire's are supposed to get power. Thanks for the help.

when you think about it, it makes more sense. You wouldn't want a hot battery cable connected to it all the time, even though it should work, wouldn't be very safe though. With it wired up as described above by blue67, the fender mounted solenoid still switches power to the starter when the key is in the start position. However, the solenoid on the starter does the actual engaging of the power.

 

[93 LX]

when you think about it, it makes more sense. You wouldn't want a hot battery cable connected to it all the time, even though it should work, wouldn't be very safe though. With it wired up as described above by blue67, the fender mounted solenoid still switches power to the starter when the key is in the start position. However, the solenoid on the starter does the actual engaging of the power.

If you hook it up with both the old solinoid and the one on the starter what happens over time is the starter will drag against the flywheel. I know this to be true since it happend to me and others who have installed the wiring in this manner. If you dont mine removing the old solinoid all together then what you need is a 93 "solinoid" which is a power distribution block that looks like a solinoid. All the connections remain the same and you dont have a draging starter.

Allen

 

[bifs66]

I'm running the hi-torque mini starter from Ford Motor Sports on the stroker in the 66 Fastback. This is with a 157 tooth flywheel and the original 1966 small aluminum 289 bellhousing. I connected mine up as recommended in the Ford instruction sheet. As some others have stated... The heavy wire from the starter itself is re-connected to the "battery" side, large post on the original fender mounted solenoid. The other large post on the solenoid (used to have the starter wire attached) is where you connect the lighter "trigger" wire that runs to the solenoid on the mini-starter. Be careful to wrap and firmly locate the heavy starter wire as it now ALWAYS carries 12V (originally, it only had 12V when the old solenoid was engaged). In the new configuration, the original solenoid's job is only to trigger the mini's solenoid. This setup has worked flawlessly during 2 yrs of street and track driving. In my case, I had installed new, concours engine bay wiring harnesses, regulator, solenoid, etc. and I wanted to wire everything up and have it operate as close to stock as possible (no cutting or splicing $$$$ harnessses). So, the above decscribed method of hooking things up worked well for me. The starter is part no: M11000-B50 and was a little pricey. They also have a less expensive one M11000-A50 (which may be close to a stock item). FMS claims they will not fit the 164 tooth flywheel setup.

 

[Stang951]

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