ok, i love the way the new 05 looks. with that front end w/ the fog lights up high in the grill, anyone driving this car w/ the fog lights on will get "bright lighted" 3 out of every 5 cars. the reason i know this is that i had an early 90s acura integra and the fog/driving lights were up next to the headlights and i got bright lighted all the time by people who dont know a thing about cars.
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- Thread starter drzray
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2013 Geee T
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Im sure they are angled in a way that wont blind people in front of you (You would think). They look like an extra set of headlights more than fog lights anyway.
burningman said:
Who's ignorant?
This is the thing that people don't get. Fog lights, even when they are located properly, are just as offensive to oncoming drivers as high beams are. There is a reason people get pulled over for this. Unless you are dealing with actual fog, or you are driving on the highway and have the good sense to kill them for an oncoming car, do everyone a favor and leave them off.
The fogs on the new car are located too high to work properly anyway.
shatner saves said:
How do you come by that? A proper foglight has a very flat (doesnt rise vertically very much, but very wide horizontal spread, and relatively short distance) to see things ahead of you on the road in the fog, paired with low beams, where normal high beams will just reflect back in your face.
Fogs in the Mustang's grill could be aimed down at a significant angle, and with it's flat beam, be fairly unoffensive to oncoming drivers. Most drivers don't know how lights are supposed to be aimed anyway. I do enough night driving that I pay attention to the aim of my headlights, and I get flashed occaisionally. and I try to err to the side of other driver's comfort, rather than my own ability to see on the road. Some drivers just don't like oncoming light of any kind.
Driving lights, however, are usually misunderstood. Driving lights are commonly used with low beams to be alternatives to high beams. That is not what they are supposed to be.
They are supposed to be augmentation to high beams, with a much longer distance focused beam to go beyond the slightly wider spread of the high beams. Look at any german VW, BMW, or Porsche (especially 944, 911, 968 from 80's or 90's, fogs-lows together, driving-highs together. Most other cars dont have both fogs and driving lights installed.) E-code lights on european market cars have better vertical cut-off, as well, for other drivers.
Forward lighting is a compromise between spread (vert or horiz) and distance.
-Fog lights (27-55watts) - Wide horizontal spread, almost no vertical spread, short distance.
-Low Beams (55watts) - Medium wide spread, vertical and horizontal, medium-short distance.
-High Beams (65 or higher watts) - slightly less horizontal and vertical spread than low beams, Higher wattage adds even more distance on top of the long distance focus.
-Driving Lights (55 or higher watts) - Very little spread at all, and super long distance, to see signs and objects in the road path at long distances, in order to not over-drive your lights at high speeds.
Find some photos from the 05 mustang press kit, where the red GT show car is parked with the lights on, with fog rolling by. Kind of sinister, but it shows the flat beam of the foglights, as a wide fan shape.
SportscarFan said:
Very informative.
The purpose, as I understand it, of fog lights, is to illuminate the road and not the fog hence the "Wide horizontal spread, almost no vertical spread". As such, in clear conditions, they really don't do anything for you. If you do notice a big difference in clear conditions, they are aimed such that, congratulations, you've got high beams!
Why risk the ticket or aggrivation of someone flashing their high beams at you?
Maybe what I am experiencing is just a majority of cars with poorly placed/poorly aimed fog lights. Obviously, people that have crossed burningman's path have experienced the same thing. (no offence, I am not trying to single anyone out).
How many people actually aim their fogs?
GelatiCruiser
Founding Member
shatner saves said:
I disagree....I have fogs on my ride and have NEVER been brighted by another car.
Also, they put a ****load of R&D into this car....I doubt they'll put fog lights that don't "work properly" on the car.
shatner saves said:
Did I mention that i get brighted by these tards when I'm just running headlights and no fogs too.
If these clowns can't figure out that my low lights are on..especially when i have the fog lights on (most cars not modded have the fogs comeone when the low beams are on)...I am in no way turning them off for the morons around here when they can drive around with thier brights on all the time. screw em. I'm not breaking the law they can deal. The only way i don't get flashed is if i drive with just parking lights on...and like i'm gonna do that at night. And no my headlights aren't aimed to high either. I've checked them and intensionally angled them lower to try to avoid this situation.
66Satellite
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Obviously you did not.
In that case, maybe you should...I don't know.....aim your headlights? If you get brighted regularly, maybe you should look into it.
And exactly what criteria do you use to dermine when it is appropriate to turn in the fogs, since we have established that they don't automatically come on with the low beams?
It wouldn't be the presence of really fine, road level water droplets. The kind that just hang there, sometimes when the sun isn't out? What do they call that stuff again...?
In that case, maybe you should...I don't know.....aim your headlights? If you get brighted regularly, maybe you should look into it.
And exactly what criteria do you use to dermine when it is appropriate to turn in the fogs, since we have established that they don't automatically come on with the low beams?
It wouldn't be the presence of really fine, road level water droplets. The kind that just hang there, sometimes when the sun isn't out? What do they call that stuff again...?
66Satellite
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burningman said:
You running xenons? I hate those lights, too. If that many people are flashing you, there's a reason for it. I don't like be blinded by poseurs in Audis, etc., either. Unless you are driving on totally dark country roads there's no need for these kind of lights, anyway.
shatner saves said:
I actually aim my fogs. The higher mounted they are, the more down-angle, and a couple of degrees more vertical spread they need. Low mounted lights need less vertical spread (beams shine out closer to horizontal) but are much more vulnerable to stone damage. Look at your car and see where the paint chips are on the front bumper, more at the bottom.
The forward edge of a fog pattern should end about where the low beam patch starts. My Ranger 4x4 offroad has them under the bumper, but are still about a foot off the ground. and they do work properly. I saw my wife drive it the other day, and they most definitely did not look like low mounted high-beams, and they allow me to see better when I drive in the dark and fog.
on a clear night, fogs can fill in the road surface "under" your low beams. Mostly just a comfort, i guess, but they are there, and I like to drive with them on with the low beams in the dark.
In the fog, they are on with the parking lights around town. Low Beams on the highway.
The wife's Miata doesn't have foglights on it (a big YET on that) and the headlights don't work very well up close to the car. I have them aimed correctly, and they illuminate signs pretty well, and "down-range", but not directly in front. '99 Miatas have 2 dual filament bulbs, not four singles, so the reflector surface has to compromise between high and low focus and spread, same as my Ranger, and most Mustangs, including the 05 show car. Cars with 2 bulbs can really benefit from quality fog lights. (and driving lights, but too many lights looks odd)
Here's an anecdote:
A couple of months ago on the interstate, after 9pm on a dark, cloudy night. I accidently hit a tire carcass shed from an 18 wheeler. I saw something small and black in the road in the distance, probably about 80 yards or more, but then the light patch went past it until I was close enough to see the top of it in the headlight washout ("wasted" light not confined to the beam by the reflector, FYI) at less than 10 ft in front of the car, and less than half a second later, it was under the car, and behind me.
If I had had foglights on, and/or if the low beams were better spread, I would have still been able to see it as it got closer to the car, and still had time to dodge it, and prevented a nice big scratch to the driver's side rocker panel, and also on the front air dam, as the carcass went under.
Needless to say, I am looking into how to mount fog lights into a 99 Miata without the OEM pockets in the bumper.
sorry, it seems i have caused some confusion w/ my original post. all im saying is that b/c of the location of the auxillary lights (driving) they will look like bright lights to most oncoming drivers. its just my experience that when an oncoming car sees a car w/ 4 lights comin at them they are going to flash hi beams. especially when the lights appear to be the same size as with the 05 stang. and by the way this is my personal observation and i wasnt trying to go into the specifics of fog and driving light design but thanks for the info.
SportscarFan said:
Very good. However, my point was that while some do, I would bet that most people *do not* aim their fog lights. It has been my experience that oncoming cars with their fogs on are just putting out a unreasonable amount of light and I wouldn't consider myself overly sensitive to these things.
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