XtorT'r said:Man, this post got kinda nasty.
it happens from time to time when someone just won't shut up and admit they don't have a freakin clue.
XtorT'r said:Man, this post got kinda nasty.
Ben99GT said:Go ahead, overlap the curves of a '96-'98 4V and a '99+ 2V, same mods or stock for stock. The 2V, on average, will make more peak torque and make more horsepower and torque below 3,000 rpm.
The Mach 1 4V is the only real exception to the 4V being weak down low.
kirkyg said:The only 4v from 99 or newer that wouldn't put out more low end and high end power throughout the power curve is the 99+ pre-fix with choked off intake and exhaust manifolds. Again, hop in the seat of any 4valve and drive it and then open your mouth...your words would certainly be different.
kirkyg
Usually a motor with a power peak at 5250 RPM would not exhibit the bias toward torque that the 260HP motor does. For example, the most common version of the LS1 reaches its torque and power peaks at 4000 RPM and 5200 RPM, respectively, almost exactly like the 260HP motor. But the power peak is 310HP and the torque peak is 340LB/FT. The numbers are closer to each other (30) than the Ford's numbers are (42).
There is another issue I have with the LS1... it seems like a smaller, OHC motor should come closer to the LS1 in power, not torque. That big LS1 should excel at torque and the OHC 4.6L should (to some extent) make it up on the top end. This is the stereotype. But the exact opposite is true... the torque peak of the 260HP motor is really pretty close to the LS1 (302 vs. 340) but the power differential is greater (260 vs. 305). In a race, the GT will do a decent job keeping up off-the-line and up to 60MPH, but the Z28 will absolutely run away on the top end. This seems backwards to me.
mogs01gt said:4.6s have a very short stroke, that isnt that great for torque but it allows us to rev up higher and shift at a much higher RPM.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:DBMSTANG: I get it. You interpret "bias toward torque" to mean that the FT/LB number is higher than the HP number. I can see where that interpretation would make me look dumb. But it's a stupid interpretation of the term "bias toward torque." It's an interpretation based on a comparison of two measurements despite the fact that they don't share the same units.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:An engineer ought to know that comparing numbers with different units is not meaningful. Saying a motor has a torque bias because it has more FT/LB than HP is analagous to saying it's hot outside because the temperature is higher than the relative humidity. That's not what I meant, and an engineer ought to know that.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:Maybe you're just a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. That would explain a lot.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:Besides, I followed up the statement about "bias" with a couple of sentences explaining what I meant. In speaking of "bias," I compared the 4.6L 2V to the LS1. I still think my comparison with the LS1 is somewhat worthwhile. The 4.6L makes 1.162 FT/LB for every HP it makes. The LS1 makes only 1.098.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:The equation relating torque to power doesn't explain that. In fact, the opposite is true. That equation implies that motors with similar peak RPM numbers ought to have similar ratios of power to torque (and similarly shaped dyno curves). I guess I may be splitting hairs (and I know both motors are underrated by the OEM), but I'm not fundamentally wrong.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:I also think you make a big mistake in trying to claim that the power/torque equation explains why "most cars become more responsive with higher RPM."
CuddaWuddaShuda said:Besides, I don't agree that power equals responsiveness. Like I posted before, torque is twisting force. That's what you feel. That is what I meant by responsiveness.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:But even so, you can't claim that "most cars become more responsive with higher RPM." In fact, reality was almost the complete opposite during the late 1970s (whether you look at power or torque).
yeah but he bought a car with lower quality and all he got was an engine and at tranny.97predator said:the LS1 just makes silly power. i drove my friends with heads/cam/intake/lid/exhaust and could not believe it. it is not fair. to get that kind of power i would need a forged block and a kenne bell. approximately 8-9K to get where he is for 2-3K.
DBMSTNG said:are you John Kerry?
DBMSTNG said:you do realize that once again, you contridict yourself. here you compare tq to hp. exactley what you claim you are not doing in the beginning of your post.
DBMSTNG said:you are wrong in that these 2 engines have next to nothing in common. one is a 4.6L ohc low compression engine and the other is a 5.7L pushrod with high compression. the 4.6L is underrated by about 10hp. the LS1 is underrated by as much as 45hp. and they will not have a similar ratio of tq/hp just because they have similar redlines. compression, heads, and cams all have a say in that.
Aaron 4.6 said:Cudda- I would like you to respond to my thread instead of trying to win a pissing contest. I agreed with your premise, and I gave you an explanation. Instead of trying to show how big your capacity for argument is, you ought to be responding to my explanation of WHY you see WHAT it is that you see. I thought your intent was to have a little content in this post?
I also agree with you to disagree with mogs01gt. 3.55" isn't particularly short for piston stroke. The 2V 4.6 has 18% more stroke than a 302, and at stock redline the piston speed is about 40% greater for a 2V 4.6 than a stock 5.0 (5800 RPM/4800 RPM) * (3.55"/3.0") The square dimensions of the 4.6 represents a definite effort (to me at least) that Ford was trying to make up for the lost 21 c.i. by adding some torque via a longer stroke.
mogs01gt said:yeah but he bought a car with lower quality and all he got was an engine and at tranny.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:I know... it's almost like Chevy ran out of money and couldn't finish the car. I am thinking about things like skip-shift, the "hump" in the footwell, etc. Maybe I don't respect the 4.6L like I do the LS1, but the Ford wins the overall comparison between the two cars IMHO.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:I really didn't want to get into a pissing contest. If I had criticized a particular person or car, or made some kind of claim (as opposed to asking questions), I would have understood DBMSTNG's response. I think he is still upset about my Lightning thread. Trucks just ain't my thing.
CuddaWuddaShuda said:But that dude basically tried to make me look like an idiot in his first response, and I just couldn't let it slide.