Performer vs Performer RPM?????????

[6t6vintage]

hello, i have been browsing this forum for a long time but never posted. i just decided to post now because over at VMF, i never get any answers to my questions because i am not as "popular" as some of the more frequent poster. so maybe you guys will be more helpful to me


ok, heres the deal... I want to install a new intake, 500cfm carb, cam, and timing chain on my stock 289 engine, so...
1-is this a good set of upgrades to give my engine a lift? or should i get a bigger carb(however, its for a daily driver and i want good mileage) i would appreciate any suggestions for better upgrades

2-would it be best to get the performer package or the performer rpm package? which would be best for stock heads yet still adequate for aftermarket heads in the future? im just worried that the performer parts will be too close to stock performance-wise. so, i just want to know what would be best for my daily driver 289. thanks

ps-i will be adding tri-y headers and dual exhaust

 

[SadbutTrue]

i've never heard of any performer rpm products not workign at least decently with stock parts. You might lose some torque versus the performers and not gain a whole ton of power, but you certainly will keep your options open later. I personally regret getting a Performer for my 351w (luckily I can still sell it for 2/3rds what I paid for it or so, so my mistake may not be a big deal) and wish I would have gone with an RPM. If you tune it right and match components well, you should be able to get a fine upgrade. If you go with the Performer RPM setup, you should get a 600 cfm carb and a slightly more aggressive cam... I'd go with a Comp XE 268 or equivalent.

 

[Jonstantine]

sounds like you have a good idea...

as for carb cfm - 500 is what you want (or less) if your going mechanical secondaries (edelbrock/carter carb)
you can go bigger with vacuum secondaries

performer rpm - the performer is not as bad an intake as some would let you believe - but its power dies after 5250 rpm... so its just a better idea to go with the rpm intake

i run a performer cam, and it does ok... (93 mph in the 1/4) i would suggest you get something bigger though, from a cam specialist company (a stock cam from a 5.0 will support almost 400 hp if you have alot of other goodies)
most of the people ive seen with complete rpm packages, didnt run that fast so i think that cam might be overkill, but im not really expierienced with it - ive just been disapointed with people's #'s ive seen with the full rpm package

trick flo and afr make the best heads.

if i was rebuilding my motor...
i would get a cam around 220-228 duration at 50
500 cfm with mech (edelbrock) secondaries or 650ish with vacuum (i have a 625 road demon on the way)
afr 165 heads - if i had the money
and a performer rpm intake (although i like the weiand xcellerator with the divider in it too)

with good exhaust - that should be a very capable car

 

[coolblue65]

I would go with the RPM intake, the performer is too close to stock. Also go with a 600cfm carb should give you the best of economy and performance, 500 is fine for a stock motor but will limit it you in the long run-I actually run a 750 but mine is not a daily driver. Also if this is truely a daily driver, I would not recomend getting the Edelbrock RPM Cam -i have it- its a pretty big cam and you will be hurting for low end (below 2500rpm) torque and power which isn't going to make you happy driving it around town every day.

I have all edelbrock RPM parts except for the Trick Flow heads (see sig) car makes a ton of power and I love it.

my two cents

 

[Jonstantine]

the edelbrock 600 carb bogged out my 289 to a tune of 2.55 60' times (right now i have an auto with 2.8 gear ) about to put a 4cyl t-5 in it though 3.97 1st gear
if you have gears or manual tranny you might be ok... call the manufacturers for their recomendations

 

[65racecoupe]

Go with the manly man parts.

Get a holley or demon and a vic jr intake and some good heads, like AFR, TFS, or Vic jr. If you are going to spend the money, get something that you really want (that is not much more money than the intake, cam, and carb you mentioned). I wish I went with a bigger cam on my 331 from the start.

If you want gas mileage, put in a T5 5 speed. That is my favorite mod of all that are on my 65 coupe (everything is modified in my car).

I am not sure of the shape of your 289. Go with at least the RPM stuff, along with a matching cam. You won't regret it.

 

[70MustangGrande]

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[D.Hearne]

.

What's the matter, Cat got your tongue?

 

[D.Hearne]

Go with the Performer RPM if your heart's set on an Edelbrock intake, you won't regret it. Or an older Edelbrock F4B. Both work fine with stock motors and upgrades later on . A Vic jr. would be a poor performer with a stock motor.

 

[VictorII]

I use an RPM, an Edelbrock 600 manual choke carb and a Summit K3600 cam (same profile as the Performer -- I like smoth idle.) At 2,000 RPM that thing leaps. And the torque is good at take off. When I rebuilt my 3.40 rear, I put in a spare 2.80 open rear temporarily and it did fine. I just could not use 5th (I put a T5 in it as well) very often. That is the recommendation I would make. As time goes by, you might think about exhaust too as that will let the engine breath better, but the RPM and Performer carb are good starts. If you plan to go deep with the rear gearing, go 600CFM. If you plan to keep the stock rear, 500 should be fine. The hot ticket back in the day of the early Mustangs was 480. And when it is time for a rebuild, it is a lot cheaper to go with modified stock heads. I had 351 vavles put in mine and ground out the smog humps from the exhaust ports. Not as good as the high dollar aftermarket heads but a great compromise and less than half price. You might also explore a Crane distributor recurve kit. It'll get the ignition to come in faster. All of this will make a difference that you will feel.

 

[65fastback2+2]

i wish ya'll wouldnt keep confusing me! sheesh

im thinking about going with the performer rpm carb/manifold/cam combo on my 302. Its got dual exhaust and hedman headers ,and electronic ignition and will be backed by a rebuild AOD with a shift kit and 3.00 rear gears (a lil power and a lotta gas mileage) am I not gonna be happy with that setup or what is wrong with it???

 

[Hack]

About carbs:
Too large of a carb can cause bad gas mileage. The problem I'd be more concerned about is - you'll have a lack of throttle response. As posted above, a carb that's too big for your engine will bog when your car is idling and you step on it. You also won't get as good fuel atomization.

The correct way to size a carb is by your engine displacement and the maximum rpms you will rev to. For a 300 cubic inch engine:

RPM 4k 4500 5k 5500 6k 6500
CFM 280 315 350 380 420 450 stock street
CFM 300 350 385 420 462 500 high performance

That is taken from the Haynes Holley carb manual. So your 500 cfm carb is about right for 6500 max rpms. If you are planning a build capable of revving higher, you will want a larger carb. Otherwise the carb size will limit you at the top.

I hope this helps.

 

[D.Hearne]

i wish ya'll wouldnt keep confusing me! sheesh

im thinking about going with the performer rpm carb/manifold/cam combo on my 302. Its got dual exhaust and hedman headers ,and electronic ignition and will be backed by a rebuild AOD with a shift kit and 3.00 rear gears (a lil power and a lotta gas mileage) am I not gonna be happy with that setup or what is wrong with it???

The RPM intake and a 500-600 cfm carb will be fine ( Holley that is ) But with an AOD and 3.00 rear gears, that RPM cam may be a little steep for your setup. A Performer cam might be a better choice. Now if you change your rear ratio to something like at least 3.50's and put in say a 2400 stall converter, the RPM cam would work better.

 

[SadbutTrue]

carb companies rate their carbs differently. Ie a Demon 650 outflows a 650 Holley that outflows a 650 Edelbrock. So if Holley says 500 is perfect for a 300 cid engine, then a 600 Edelbrock should do fine as well. Also, I have heard because 289s are pretty rev happy they like to be overcarbed a bit (overcarbed in relation to the rules, that is).

 

[6t6vintage]

thanks guys for all the replies. i only got one reply for the exact same question on the VMF
anyways, i am thinking about the 500 carb, RPM intake, and either the Performer cam or a comprable Comp cam.
so, does anyone know a Comp cam that would work well with these parts but still has good low-end torque and smooth idle?

 

[65fastback2+2]

The RPM intake and a 500-600 cfm carb will be fine ( Holley that is ) But with an AOD and 3.00 rear gears, that RPM cam may be a little steep for your setup. A Performer cam might be a better choice. Now if you change your rear ratio to something like at least 3.50's and put in say a 2400 stall converter, the RPM cam would work better.

ok, i really like technical explanations (esp since i explain differences between AMD Xp's, Celeron's and P4's all day at work) so when you say steep, this means it will do what??? And why wont the edelbrock work, why holley??? Im not made of money, so the 3.00's have to stay unless your willing to donate. Im wanting a lil power so i can flip off ricers, but i want some awesome gase mileage too. help me about hearne if you can pick me out a setup for the same $$$ as the performer rpm combo, and explain to me why, i'll go with that.

 

[65racecoupe]

You will need some gears. Steep gears mean that your car will rev faster. You will feel the gears more than any other mod. You can use a higher number gear ratio because you are going to have an AOD overdrive.

Just remember, you will need more power to go as fast as a similar car with a manual tranny. Your AOD will eat more power.

 

[65racecoupe]

Ok. I read a coupe of the other posts. Here is the deal.

You have to have your parts MATCH. They have to work together, not fight each other. You have to have the correct size carb to match the intake, cam, heads and displacement of your engine. The gears in your rear have to match the cam.

For example...

I have a 331 ci 302 engine. It has a 750 speed demon carb, edelbrock victor jr. intake, fairly strong comp cam, and fully ported heads. The gears in the rear are 3.89s. I have a 5 speed.

Now, I want to go with a stronger cam, because I am used to the horsepower and I want some more. I will have to go with a bigger carb and a higher number gear ratio. If I just go with the bigger carb and cam and forget the gears, my engine will be a dog. Too little gear with too much engine is not a good thing. But, if all my parts match, then my car will fly.

The point is to match up your stuff. You can go with gears first, and then the engine parts if the money comes. That way, there won't be a damper in performance. Too much gear for the engine just makes it rev happy around town. If you do the RPM stuff and keep the gears, then you will be unhappy.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[D.Hearne]

ok, i really like technical explanations (esp since i explain differences between AMD Xp's, Celeron's and P4's all day at work) so when you say steep, this means it will do what??? And why wont the edelbrock work, why holley??? Im not made of money, so the 3.00's have to stay unless your willing to donate. Im wanting a lil power so i can flip off ricers, but i want some awesome gase mileage too. help me about hearne if you can pick me out a setup for the same $$$ as the performer rpm combo, and explain to me why, i'll go with that.

I was just pokin fun at your choice of an Edelbrock carb ( I'm a Holley guy, in case you haven't noticed ) The RPM cam will perform better at higher rpms than you'll get with 3.00 gears. And add in the OD 4th in an AOD, and your engine will NOT be happy cruisin with that cam at 1000-1500 rpms at highway speeds. A smaller cam will move the power band down lower in the rpm range which is what you'll need with 3.00's and an AOD. Something like Comp's 260H or 268H would be a better choice, than the RPM cam.

 

[70MustangGrande]

What's the matter, Cat got your tongue?

Been a long time since I've posted Hearne. I used to dispute with you a few times a while back if you remember....

To be slightly off topic for a moment in time, Im just throwing in a blank post so my account isn't tossed because of the lack of internet being out in northern Japan. It'll take some time before I get an account up.

I do miss my 70 back home. Fortunatly, I have the folks who are kind enough to look after for the 2 years while im gone until I get back stateside and out of my 4 year enlistment with the USAF. Right now im looking at and hanging around cars like this instead of the ponycars.......

http://www.car-pictures-photos-pics.com/Nissan/Skyline/1.jpg

or...

http://www.car-pictures-photos-pics.com/Nissan/Silvia (1999)/1.jpg

or even...

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/271000-271999/271357_2_full.jpg

...But, no stangs. At least I have stangnet.

P.S. I can't wait to come home on leave and see the '05's!