NewPony'05
New Member
you better check the "manual" box on your order form, unless you shift like an uncoordinated one-legged donkey (which many people do).
auto or manual fastest?
- Thread starter bigred111
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Yes, in some cars, especially the LS1 Camaros, the automatic is your best bet for 1/8 and 1/4 Mile times. Not necessarily because its faster in which some cases it is, but mainly because of it power handling. Not only are they more consistent, but the automatics tend to be able to handle much more torque than the manuals. It's also a lot easier to launch and put power down with stall converters. However, when racing from a roll or on the street, you will probably fair better with a manual. Coming from the inport side, the automatics are usually about 1 whole second slower in the 1/4 and sometimes in the 0-60mph. Don't forget the lower gas mileage and the cost difference when something goes wrong. With the way top level racing is headed and most manufacturers eventually a manual won't even be an option. I just hope that they do give us the choice of a real paddle shift system, not the BS we're offered in most cars today. Basically they're the same automatic they've always produced, they just put a slapstick in place of the standard R P N D 1 2 Lever . I will always own and drive manuals though. Not only is it more fun, but I like to autocross, street race, and the total control is much more important to me.
realtripp
New Member
As far as lefties and shifting goes, I am a rightie and my left leg still depressed my clutch pedal just fine. A person can learn just about anything they want. It is all a matter of muscle memory.
fvcrew22
New Member
I'm left handed and don't have any problems shifting. Honestly I've never really thought about it, when I learned to drive a manual with my mustang my dad just told me what to do and I did it. Now over time it's just natural, like realtripp said its really a matter of muscle memory.
RICKS said:
The problem is that manual gearboxes have an extremely long clutch pedal travel. Having to lift your heel off the floorpan to shift is unacceptable! I don't see why this has to be so. And it is for this very reason, I would never actually pay real money for a manual gearboxed car ... ever. Long live automatics.
AndFuelFor..All said:
Translation, if you're making to much torque, like most mulletmobiles, and don't have the skills to put the power down, then you'll definitely need a automatic gearbox.
mulletmobile= any random ****box that has way to much torque and no way to put the power down. Usually tuned by joe-schmoe at the gas station with a setup that runs occasionally.
blackstangt
Member
I read someone saying that the 99+ models of the mustang gt were only 2 tenths slower in a drag race. Well unless there is a horrible driver behind the wheel of the manual, this is most likely wrong, unless like the 87-93 stangs the standard rear diff gears are different. The idea of a torque converter spinning atf around into a fan to power my car scares me. But it is very advanced despite it's downfalls. 
AndFuelFor..All said:
Is this a joke?
Have you ever driven a manual, while understanding whats going on inside that transmission? There are performance advantages to automatic over manual gearboxes but your claims are not making sense. When you say long clutch pedal travel....do you mean that the length is slowing your shifts? Or that you are too lazy to want to lift your leg? It it was the former then, unless you are driving a Ferrari with the paddle shift, an F1, or some type of $15K automatic gearbox, then most drivers can ring out quicker shifts than the optional automatics that are available on most cars. I think the new Audi DSG shifts quicker than we can but it takes time from the button press to the actual change in gears. Until we start seeing F1 style tranny's in our cars.....then we will always be able to shift faster. A select few cars can post quicker 1/8 and 1/4 times but this is because its a lot easier to put the power down, not because of the shifts. They usually have to add things like big stalls and shiftkits that lower the life of the automatic, but to each his own. Oh and by the way, even though you don't have to use a clutch on every shift, the F1 style trans is much closer to a manual gearbox than an automatic. They have clutch pedals in them and you do have to use it to not stall the car on stops and take-offs.
blackstangt
Member
I can shift as fast or faster than any of my friends' auto cars. 90 gt
also, not a good idea, but with synchros, you can rev the car and it will go into gear... but i wouldn't suggest it. if your synchros are bad in reverse, just rev it up a little and (using the clutch) try again.
also, not a good idea, but with synchros, you can rev the car and it will go into gear... but i wouldn't suggest it. if your synchros are bad in reverse, just rev it up a little and (using the clutch) try again.
65conv50
New Member
G0NEn60 said:
Sorry.... no. There are NO "performance advantages" to a trans that is more complex and uses fluids to replace direct mechanical connection. In the hands of a competent driver, the manual is ALWAYS faster. Key word in the above "competent". 99.99% of drivers do not qualify for that word.
65conv50 said:
Sorry dude, but your wrong. If you read my whole post you would know that I said most transmissions that are available in todays production cars are slower. However there are "some" performance advantages with an automatic transmission. With an automatic and a big stall, you can launch a car much easier/quicker than a human can launch a manual. When I said performance advantages I wasn't just talking about how quick the automatic can shift. With the new DSG from Audi the gear is already engaged before the driver selects it. There's actually no time for a mechanical gear to move and mesh with another gear. As soon as it gets the signal from the selector, the gear is essentially already engaged.
Now I'll bring up the F1 paddle shift systems. I don't remember the exact times, but yes, they do shift gears faster than most if not all PROFESSIONAL drivers. When you say 99.9% faster do you mean, faster drag times, faster shifts, or faster race track times? Even though it really doesn't matter, because in each sport almost all of them have gone to some sort of automated manual transmission because it is faster, more reliable mechanically, and more consistant. Essentially these F1 transmissions take the best of both worlds. The control and quickness of a manual, while maintaining consistancy and giving the driver the ability to concentrate on driving. If Schumacher could shift faster, accelerate quicker, and ring out faster lap times in a manual tranny F1, he'd probably be driving a manual. Educate yourself.
In the end, I do prefer a manual myself, but not out of blind faith. I know that in any car I can afford the manual is faster, but I do understand why most proffesional level racing is using automatics.
Easier, yes. Quicker, no. All a stall-speed converter does is raise the rpm that the converter starts to engage the drivetrain, and modulates that power (however you may have it calibrated) until full lock-up. All of this can be duplicated manually, with a 100% mechanical clutch & pressure plate and your left foot. It's just more difficult to duplicate the same results time after time for consistency sake, which is what drag racing is all about. So, no, there's nothing "quicker" about a stall-speed converter that you can't duplicate entirely with modulating gas pedal and clutch pedal to achieve the exact same launch characteristic. I'll agree that the F1 tranny is a quicker setup, because F1 transmissions are NOT traditional automatic transmissions in any respect. They do not use torque converters, they don't use fluid to change gears or modulate torque in a manner such as a traditional auto does. They are essentially manual gearboxes, engaged by an electronically controlled and operated clutch, where all shifts are accomplished through electronic controls. It's quick and almost seamless, and does not suffer from the increased parasitic drag that the traditional auto does, but it has NOTHING to do with the traditional automatic transmission offered in the new Mustang GT, which I think was the premise of this thread.
G0NEn60 said:
RICKS, I think I explained what you just said in this post. I even said in my last post that the F1 tranny takes the best of both worlds. Never once did I say an F1 is a traditional automatic. It is an automatic transmission though. I also said that in most of todays production cars, manuals are still faster and theres a major difference. I said that there are "performance" advantages to an automatic trans. I might have worded it wrong. There are performance advantages to both.
Here's what I mean when I say quicker. You're in an manual shifted drag car. You run the fastest time of the day in the quarter-final. However you can only muster a time within 2/10's in your next couple of runs. Then the automatic that runs a 1/10 slower than your best time all day. That car is consistantly quicker than yours. Yeah, its possible to run a quicker time, but even professional drivers can't back up runs that often. If these transmissions were consistantly slower, than they wouldn't be using them. It's all about winning and you and I both know that most professional level racing is losing the manual transmission.
I know what the original creation of the thread was, when I was talking to the creator I stated my reasons for choosing a manual. However when someone comes on and says there are no performance advantages with an automatic transmission, I wanted to let him know that there are. If he would have stated there are no performance advantages of an automatic transmission in the average car, I would've never mentioned the F1. I still would have mentioned that most high power drag racers are using some style of automatically shifted transmission. To me the definition of an automatic means, the driver has no input on the physical changing of gears. No matter, what style, if it has fluids or not, or if it is closer to a manual trans than a traditional automatic.
I understand your points, and had not gone back to refresh my memory on your previous posts. I think to classify anything as "quicker" based only the premise that it's more consistent than your own skills with a stick, possibly ignoring that the auto may put less power to the rear wheels, is bogus. You can't blame driver error or inconsistency on inanimate objects like a tranny. And I have competed in the sportsman class with a 6-speed manual, bracket racing, and won trophies. When you know your launch, repeat it fairly much the same every time (same rpm, same clutch drop motion/speed, and pinpoint your shift points), you can run the same dial every time, adjusting for temp and b.p., just like the automatic boys. Before the use of electronic delay boxes, back in the 70's, many super-stock racers ran 4-speeds and shifted themselves, and won alot of national events that way. The advent of delay boxes that more accurately time the launch due to the lessened motion in releasing a button compared to swinging a clutch pedal, and being able to finely tune it and adjust it to compensate for your reflexes on the very day and track you're running, has brought about the demise of most 4-speed drag racers. In sportsman class, you can't use that stuff, so stick-shifts abound, and run very consistently. Of course that's good experienced and skilled drag race drivers. Your average schmoe would be a joke out there. But that doesn't make automatics "quicker", it makes uncoordinated clumsy dork-o schmoe's driving stick-shifts "slower". Again, I totally understand your points, and agree with most of them. But don't say autos are quicker just because so many people are crap stick-shifters. Blame them, not the machine. Imagine how inane it would be if somebody said "my new automatic Focus is quicker than my old 5-speed Focus was, 'cause now I don't miss every 3rd shift and take 3 seconds in-between each shift to adjust my glasses....." If I owned a 6-speed Ferrari 360 Modena (dreaming here), and a guy with an F1 paddle-shift Modena wanted to run me for money at the track, bracket racing, or heads-up, I wouldn't hesitate. Most paddle-shift cars don't have high stall-speeds, and with my clutch drop off the line keeping the car right in the sweet-spot of its torque curve, I could take a lead that his ever-so-slightly quicker shifts could never make back up. On a road course, he may have the advantage.
I think it's hilarious that the 2 arguments defending the quickness of automatic transmissions are that F1 cars don't have manual clutches, and that drag cars use traditional autos with high stall speed torque converters.
Neither of those available from the factory in the Mustang.
1) If you plan on dragging the car repeatedly, you are likely to have to tear down the automatic, upgrade the torque converter, and then wait for other stuff to break to discover that you shouldn't be depending on a factory auto for repeated drag racing. Casual racing, yes, but not with a high stall TC and not with shots of NOS, etc.
2) If you want to use your car as a GT (hence, the name of the vehicle) which means road driving, mixed use, etc., and you like a stick, GET THE STICK. For most driving enthusiasts, the stick wins with the fun factor.
If you want to claim to your buddies that your car is .2 sec faster in the 1/4 mile (but you don't actually CARE about the fun of getting down that 1/4 mile, or the daily fun of driving), then get whatever you need to get to impress your buddies.
I'm sort of over-stressing the issue with the automatic, and who knows, maybe the clutch in the manual will frag after 10 runs at the 1/4. We won't know about the longevity of the 05 stang until a few of us get out there and start making noise and breaking stuff.
Neither of those available from the factory in the Mustang.
1) If you plan on dragging the car repeatedly, you are likely to have to tear down the automatic, upgrade the torque converter, and then wait for other stuff to break to discover that you shouldn't be depending on a factory auto for repeated drag racing. Casual racing, yes, but not with a high stall TC and not with shots of NOS, etc.
2) If you want to use your car as a GT (hence, the name of the vehicle) which means road driving, mixed use, etc., and you like a stick, GET THE STICK. For most driving enthusiasts, the stick wins with the fun factor.
If you want to claim to your buddies that your car is .2 sec faster in the 1/4 mile (but you don't actually CARE about the fun of getting down that 1/4 mile, or the daily fun of driving), then get whatever you need to get to impress your buddies.
I'm sort of over-stressing the issue with the automatic, and who knows, maybe the clutch in the manual will frag after 10 runs at the 1/4. We won't know about the longevity of the 05 stang until a few of us get out there and start making noise and breaking stuff.
Don't get me wrong. I'm purchasing a stick, and I'll probably never own an automatic vehicle. I was just pointing out some things about different automatics. Which in some cases have an advantage over a manual. However this won't be the case on the new GT or most of the cars that most of us will ever drive. I do think eventually we won't have an option for a true manual. Hopefully it's not in my lifetime.
From what i have seen first hand in my 2001 Mustang GT AUTO, the shifting isn't setup well at all for normal cruising. When i hammer the gas it shifts smoothly and, most of the time, you don't notice it. There are occations when i think the tranny just doesn't know where it is. A good example is when im driving at around 30 mph in some neighborhood and the tranny is trying to go into over drive mode, but at the same time i'm slowing down for a stop sign. I get this sound as if the tranny just **** itself. Over all it is a solid tranny, I used to own a 94 Ford Probe GT, the mazda tranny in those were horrible. At some points i would hit the gas and the 3rd gear would engage but no power would go to the wheels. Then it suddenly clicked and power would return.
As for being faster, well in a Drag car doing some serious times you just don't have the speed to shift. If you had a 9 second car and missed a shift i'd imagine pieces flying all over the track from your clutch. If you are just talking about doing 1/4 miles with your stock or lightly modded Mustang then if you learn how to Power Shift the manual you should have no problems. Do note that Power shifting if for those experienced with a Shifter its also not something that you do all the time.
As for being faster, well in a Drag car doing some serious times you just don't have the speed to shift. If you had a 9 second car and missed a shift i'd imagine pieces flying all over the track from your clutch. If you are just talking about doing 1/4 miles with your stock or lightly modded Mustang then if you learn how to Power Shift the manual you should have no problems. Do note that Power shifting if for those experienced with a Shifter its also not something that you do all the time.
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