IMHO: Notes from an American Car Hating 39 year old First Wave Punk Rocker. (Long)

[FlashGordon]

First off, what a great forum this is.
I've never liked any american car made after 1972. In fact I hate 'em. They're ugly period. The Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, etc...were demolished stylistically as were just about every other american offering. The corvette stayed a corvette but I never really liked the way those looked after '67 though I wouldn't call them ugly. Call me an art *** but the Bmw's of the 70's. 80's and early 90's were beautifully designed cars. Almost every car made in the 80's is abhorrant. With the introduction of the Miata in , I believe, 1990, the retro revolution was born. For the first time a car maker looked to the past to move into the future. Not surprisingly the miata went on the become the best selling roadster of all time. Now, I don't follow mustangs but I believe it was 1994 that the next gen mustang came out. I, personally wasn't crazy about it BUT a mustang finally could be linked in style to the original mustang. The mustang was a mustang again. in '96 BMW came out with the Z3. now almost every carmaker offers a roadster. Volkswagen introduced the new Beetle, Plymouth released the Prowler,Chrysler came out with the PT Cruiser,Ford re-introduced the Thunderbird. Whatever problems beset the Thunderbird wasn't it the best looking Thunderbird in about 35 years? (I believe that if the T-Bird had been priced at about 27k they would have had a hit on their hands). BMW revived the Mini Cooper in 2002. As a design fan I couldn't be happier for the retro revolution. Even The new Z nods to the past while remaining a very modern looking car.
Now while I don't particularly like the new Beetle or the PT Cruiser at least you could buy a car for under 20k that had some style and made some kind of statement other than "This is all I could afford".
What is all this leading up to? For the first time in my car driving life I'm SEVERELY considering buying an American car. The 2005 mustang. I think it's stunning. Inside and out. A 200 horsepower car for UNDER 20k?!? That looks like this?!? I've always asked in reference to under 20k cars "If they're gonna build the damn thing why do they have to look like Yugos?"
I have about $20,000 cash to buy a new car. I was looking at Mini Coopers and Z3's. Now I'm considering FIRST the new Mustang. To you whippersnappers that were just a dream in your mom and dad's eye when I was hopping the bus to go see The Clash and don't like the retro look of the mustang all I can say is go buy your evo's and wrx's and z's. stay clear away from the 05 mustang. The one downside to the new Mustang is that everyone and their mother is going to get one. My prediction is they will be as ubiquitous as yellow cabs in Manhattan. My prediction is that Ford will have one of the best of their 100 years. I cannot understate how good this will be for us. We will see the glorious re-birth of the Camaro, Firebird and who knows how many countless classics (To bad Pontiac tripped and broke it's neck with it's glorified Taurus, the new GTO).
I can't wait to see the new Mustang in person. I can't wait to test drive it. I can't wait change the colors in the display "SIDE NOTE: I actually came up with this very same idea about 10 years ago. END SIDE NOTE".
And hopefully I won't be able to wait to walk up to my Mustang everytime I have to go somewhere (and even when I don't). On TV last night someone from a major car company was being interviewed at an auto show. He said "people will tell you the things they look for most in car is reliability, quality, safety, gas consumption all the socially acceptable things. The thing that people really use when deciding what car they're going to buy is their eyes." I think there is a lot of truth in that statement. Look at the popularity of the mini cooper. A car beset by huge problems in it's first 2 years. cracking windshields, tire blowouts, engines shutting down, creaks and rattles up the goznga, oil leaks, etc etc etc...it's still hard to find Mini coopers selling for MSRP. For me my eyes keep pulling towards the Mustang.
Well, thanks for letting me get my two cents in and for such an informative and entertaining forum.

Sincerely,
Josh Gordon
Previous Owner of:
78 celica gt hatchback (my first car)
91 toyota pick up (my least favorite car)
99 z3 (awesomely fun)
67 firebird 400 convertable (my most beautiful car)

 

[frankswildyears]

welcome to the forum josh. I think there are many more non N/A car buyers out there who are stopping to take a look at the new mustang. I found your post very interesting, as I think the folks at ford will too. Personally, I've always wanted a mustang (had a 4 cyl. 79 but idont count it as a mustang). For years I've planned on buying a 67-69 fastback but the impracticality of owning a classic (Canadian winters) had never worked comfortably into my lifestyle. In November of last year I had finally found myself in a position to buy a 1968 gt 390 fastback. Storage issues were arranged and It was all but done when I stumbled onto the 2005 concept. Since that day there was no turning back. Finally a car that captures the spirit of the muscle car era and the needs of modern design had surfaced. While I love the nostalgia of the older stangs, I can't wait to get my 2005 gt. And I can't wait to let my dad (he bought the 1968gt390 2+2 from the showroom) feel how the new stang performs.

 

[Enfynet]

I'm 22... and... everything he^ said after the I've always wanted a Mustang sentence...

but change Canada to Cleveland... and you'll have to end before the 'dad' line at the end. :-\

 

[Chupacabras]

Hmmm well I am 39 also and I tell you what, he really made us 39'ers to sound really really ancient old.

Anyways in 1972 he was 7 years old so don't think he was really wondering how cars after 72 were ugly.

I have test driven an 05 Mustang GT and felt it and even smelled it. It will be a hit and will sell good.

I am extremely anxious for the SVT version and WILL be one of the very first few people to have one of the first ones. Ahhh Ford Powerlease has it's privileges!!

Ken

 

[FlashGordon]

Hmmm well I am 39 also and I tell you what, he really made us 39'ers to sound really really ancient old.

Anyways in 1972 he was 7 years old so don't think he was really wondering how cars after 72 were ugly.

I have test driven an 05 Mustang GT and felt it and even smelled it. It will be a hit and will sell good.

I am extremely anxious for the SVT version and WILL be one of the very first few people to have one of the first ones. Ahhh Ford Powerlease has it's privileges!!

Ken

I certainly didn't mean to make us 39ers ancient and old. i just figured there were a lot of "kids" on this site. and frankly to an `18-25 year old we aren't very young, lol....Just wait, they'll be there soon enough ;-)

Anyhow, while i didn't start paying attention to cars when i was 7 i did start paying attention at about 10...and as i got older I payed more and more attention. So while I wasn't aware of them at the time I was aware of them as I got older and really didn't like 'em

 

[FlashGordon]

welcome to the forum josh. I think there are many more non N/A car buyers out there who are stopping to take a look at the new mustang. I found your post very interesting, as I think the folks at ford will too. Personally, I've always wanted a mustang (had a 4 cyl. 79 but idont count it as a mustang). For years I've planned on buying a 67-69 fastback but the impracticality of owning a classic (Canadian winters) had never worked comfortably into my lifestyle. In November of last year I had finally found myself in a position to buy a 1968 gt 390 fastback. Storage issues were arranged and It was all but done when I stumbled onto the 2005 concept. Since that day there was no turning back. Finally a car that captures the spirit of the muscle car era and the needs of modern design had surfaced. While I love the nostalgia of the older stangs, I can't wait to get my 2005 gt. And I can't wait to let my dad (he bought the 1968gt390 2+2 from the showroom) feel how the new stang performs.

Thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I know what you mean about the older cars. While I loved my 68 firebird, I didn't know enough about working on cars to do my own repairs and tune ups. Luckily I had a friend that could help out with that stuff but it was a very expensive car to own. It was a 400 and got about 8-10 miles to the gallon. It seemed like something always needed to be done to it. It was my daily driver so I learned a couple things while owning it. 1. learn how to work on these older cars of you're gonna get one (or be ok with shelling out the dough to get 'em fixed.) and 2. have another car at least as a back up. As it turns out I might have to get a different car than a 05 mustang because I refuse to pay sticker for a new car. If it turns out that the 05's wont be sold under msrp then I'll have to wait until I buy my next car after this one :-(....
We'll see. I'm gonna get a cashiers check and head into the dealer...We'll see what happens. I'll let the forum know what my experience is.

Thanks again for the kind welcome.

Josh
www.thelivingdolls.net

 

[M1Rifle]

I turn 40 in a month, so I'm one of those crusty 39yr olds.

When I first saw the video of this car street racing with the GT, I was sold, subject to seeing that it wasn't based on the 25 year old platform.

Heck, if there are problems with this first year, so what. I'm in. This is the first vehicle purchase I've been emotional about since I bought my 1966 Fastback back in 1981.

I've decided, about 10 years too late, that emotions are good in car ownership. Not in a ~car purchase~ mind you. But you should really love the car you drive every day.

I'm back in the saddle.

 

[351CJ]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the older cars. While I loved my 68 firebird, I didn't know enough about working on cars to do my own repairs and tune ups. Luckily I had a friend that could help out with that stuff but it was a very expensive car to own. It was a 400 and got about 8-10 miles to the gallon. It seemed like something always needed to be done to it. It was my daily driver so I learned a couple things while owning it. 1. learn how to work on these older cars of you're gonna get one (or be ok with shelling out the dough to get 'em fixed.) and 2. have another car at least as a back up
Josh

Finally!!!! Someone who remembers those 1960s cars the way they really were! Most people see those 1950s and 1960s cars through rose collored glasses.

In reality, the good old days were never as good as we seem to remember they were.

We are very fortunately to be living TODAY in the real golden age of the automobile!

 

[66Satellite]

Finally!!!! Someone who remembers those 1960s cars the way they really were! Most people see those 1950s and 1960s cars through rose collored glasses.

In reality, the good old days were never as good as we seem to remember they were.

We are very fortunately to be living TODAY in the real golden age of the automobile!

I don't know...with a few updates like electronic ignition and disc brakes the 60s cars can still be pretty reliabile and useable. I've had basically no issues with my Satellite over the last few years, unlike some of my friends with brand new cars. The thing is it's hard to find old cars that haven't been abused. But I agree with the 8 - 10 mpg part... The biggest advantage to me of the newer cars is the better gas mileage and improvements in safety.

 

[66Satellite]

Call me an art *** but the Bmw's of the 70's. 80's and early 90's were beautifully designed cars.

How do you reconcile being a Clash fan and liking 80/90s bimmers? I like the 1600/2002 but I'm not a big fan of those 80/90s yuppie mobiles--the 5.0 LX Mustangs of that era were much more cool.

 

[351CJ]

I don't know...with a few updates like electronic ignition and disc brakes the 60s cars can still be pretty reliabile and useable.

But the point is that electronic ignition did not exist in the 60s. Disk brakes were a novelty (with front disks optional on some cars in the late 60s). Radial tires were a curiosity in the US. The bias ply non belted tires usually wore out in less than 20K miles and were subject to far more flats than we get with today's belted radials. Exhuast systems were not stainless and usually rotted away in less than 5 years. Many cars had to be warmed up for a couple minutes in the winter before you drove away because their carburators and chokes gave such crude A/F mixture control. Spark plugs and points were changed every 12K if you wanted to keep it running right. How about rebuilding carburators? Go back to the early 60s before alternators and the generator was another maintanence item.

Again, people forget how much more regular maintanence the cars from the 60's needed.

 

[scottie1113]

Interesting post. I am 56 and my first new car was a 1970 SS350 Camaro. I solit in 1973 because of a growing family. Like you, I haven't liked American cars after 1972, save for the Corvette, but when the SN95 came out I started to change my mind.

There is no comparison between the 2005 Mustang and the cars of the 60's. Today cars are so much better, faster, safer, more reliable, etc. I think Ford has hit one out of the park with this car.

 

[FlashGordon]

How do you reconcile being a Clash fan and liking 80/90s bimmers? I like the 1600/2002 but I'm not a big fan of those 80/90s yuppie mobiles--the 5.0 LX Mustangs of that era were much more cool.

That's a fantastic question. I reconciled/rationalized it in a number of ways.

1. I was a huge james bond fan when I was a kid (still am but only for the sean connery movies). I had the corgi aston martin car from goldfinger. So to get a silver sports car was something that hit a very deep, childlike part of me. (I know this sounds nuts but I didn't get the z3 because it was in a james bond movie. at least not conciously. In fact, when I bought the car I had forgotten that it was featured in Goldeneye). So in a way it was the fullfillment of a childhood dream

2. the car had only been out for 3 years at the time and was still (and imho still is) a pretty bold and outrageous looking car. On the test drive I couldn't get the smile off my face. It was so much fun to drive. I had never driven a car that handled like that. I was amazed.

3. I used to blast the Sex Pistols while driving. I thought the Irony pretty hilarious. I didn't want to not get something that gave me so much pleasure because it somehow didn't fit a particular image I may have had for a part of myself.

5. I when I was about 17-19 I was really into the mod scene in L.A. there was a great mod scene here in the early 80's. I still am really into the mod style and asthetic. To me the z3 was a very mod car.

As far as the yuppie-mobile status of the 80's and 90's, I think the car was a gorgeous looking car. (i absolutely hated the changes that were made to it in the mid 90's; the squared off headlamps.). It was unfotunate that so many "yuppies" gravitated towards the car. Sure it would have been cooler if more artists or the like had been interested in it or could have afforded it but, in my opinion, the fact the yuppies liked it so much didnt detract from the asthetic quality of the car.

I also think that a part of the true punk attitude is doing what you really want for your own reasons. I think that if I had not gotten the car I really wanted just because it didn't easily fit into a certain lifestyle/image/philosophy I had for myself would have been very un-punk.
Perhaps it was a rationalization but that's how I saw/see it.

But still, I think it's a great question. especially good fodder for debate at a coffee house

-Josh
www.thelivingdolls.net

 

[FlashGordon]

But the point is that electronic ignition did not exist in the 60s. Disk brakes were a novelty (with front disks optional on some cars in the late 60s). Radial tires were a curiosity in the US. The bias ply non belted tires usually wore out in less than 20K miles and were subject to far more flats than we get with today's belted radials. Exhuast systems were not stainless and usually rotted away in less than 5 years. Many cars had to be warmed up for a couple minutes in the winter before you drove away because their carburators and chokes gave such crude A/F mixture control. Spark plugs and points were changed every 12K if you wanted to keep it running right. How about rebuilding carburators? Go back to the early 60s before alternators and the generator was another maintanence item.

Again, people forget how much more regular maintanence the cars from the 60's needed.

I know a couple of people that have had a car from the early 60's for years. It seems to do well for them. but as someone said from an earlier post it's hard to find cars that weren't beat up. You're so right. I found that Plugs and Points needed to be changed, tuned up every 6 months or so. Also, the TUNE-UP process was much more delicate back then. You really have to know what your doing and how the car is SUPPOSED TO FEEL/RUN. Since I didn't know how to tune the car up myself I was at the whim of whoever was doing it. If I had my friend do it, we could keep working on it till we got it just right and were greatly rewarded for our efforts with a car that was just sick! whenever I took it into a shop for a tune up It never felt right. They're awesome cars they just need a lot of love, knowledge, car, cash.
I always thought it would be cool to take a 68 camaro or firebird and and completely modernize it. new suspension, brakes, put in airbags, make it up to date in every way save for the body. A lot of people would consider that sacriligeous but it would be a great car to drive!

 

[66Satellite]

That's a fantastic question. I reconciled/rationalized it in a number of ways.
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Well I know Bukowski and Henry Rollins drove bimmers but I'll never consider them punk rock. I spent most of the mid 80s seeing bands like DK, Buttholes, Crucif****s, etc. I'd listen to music in my Mopar if I could hear it over the engine/exhaust.

 

[Ray III]

When you say the new Thunderbird looked great that should be our first clue not to take you seriously.

 

[jadesville]

When you say the new Thunderbird looked great that should be our first clue not to take you seriously.

The Ford 49 did look good though..the TB could have been good!

 

[FlashGordon]

When you say the new Thunderbird looked great that should be our first clue not to take you seriously.

you missquoted me. I said that It was the best looking thunderbird in about 35 years. Do you disagree?

 

[70snake]

Finally!!!! Someone who remembers those 1960s cars the way they really were! Most people see those 1950s and 1960s cars through rose collored glasses.

In reality, the good old days were never as good as we seem to remember they were.

We are very fortunately to be living TODAY in the real golden age of the automobile!

AMEN!! I build 60's & 70's Fords as a side business, and I can't believe how many people buy the older cars thinking(expecting) them to drive like a late model. I've done 8-9 older(pre-73) Mustangs over the years and the quality/fit/finish on these things from Ford was suspect at best. Steering is bad, convert's leak, fuel economy sucks, and even my own ride; a 70 Shelby with 4 wheel power disc brakes, aftermarket steering, modern wheels/tires,comfortable buckets, and electronic ign., doesnt drive as well as a 94+ Stang. Yes, my car stands out in a crowd, but it's not something thats fun to drive more than about an hour Most of the younger generation have no idea how spoiled they really are. I for one cant wait for my 2005 to show up, regardless of styling/size/interior issues, it's still light years ahead of the old stuff.

2005 Mustang GT (Legend Lime)
1970 Pro Steet Shelby Cobra
2001 F350 4x4 V10 CREW
1965 A/FX Comet
1991 Explorer(wont die)
1981 F100
1961 F100 SWB unibody(for sale)
1991 Dodge Shadow short track car

 

[351CJ]

AMEN!! I build 60's & 70's Fords as a side business, and I can't believe how many people buy the older cars thinking(expecting) them to drive like a late model. I've done 8-9 older(pre-73) Mustangs over the years and the quality/fit/finish on these things from Ford was suspect at best. Steering is bad, convert's leak, fuel economy sucks, and even my own ride; a 70 Shelby with 4 wheel power disc brakes, aftermarket steering, modern wheels/tires,comfortable buckets, and electronic ign., doesnt drive as well as a 94+ Stang. Yes, my car stands out in a crowd, but it's not something thats fun to drive more than about an hour Most of the younger generation have no idea how spoiled they really are. I for one cant wait for my 2005 to show up, regardless of styling/size/interior issues, it's still light years ahead of the old stuff.

I'm with you 70Snake. I worked on MANY, MANY cars from the 60's and early 70s. You reminded me of something else I forgot about that stank on those cars, the overboosted power recirculating ball steering (or num slow ratio non boosted) with a huge diameter steering wheel that had a skinny hard plastic rim.

I had a number of 60's and early 70's cars. I got rid of the last one I had and picked up my 2001 GT. As crude as a 2001 Mustang is, it's head and shoulders above a stock car from the 60s and early 70s. Yea my old cars got lots of attention, but attention wasn't what I was looking for. Now that they've been gone for a while, I don't miss my old junks one bit.