Why is it so slow?

NYC LSC

Founding Member
Feb 16, 2001
626
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Staten Island, NYC
Hey guys, long time, no post. I figured you guys here would be more of a help trying to tune a 5.0 than the Lincoln sites I go to.

Anyways, I went to the track last night and I have to say I was more than a little disappointed in the car's performance and the times I got. Granted, the timing wasn't all that perfect, nor was the fuel pressure (from trying to chase down a part throttle chugging problem) and the fact that I missed 3rd on one run and 4th on another didn't help, but still.. Why the hell is this car putting down the same damn numbers as my old, worn out, 200hp motor? :(

Missed 3rd on this one:
60 - 2.148
330 - 6.236
1/8 - 9.873
MPH - 70.51
1000 - 12.863
1/4 - 15.337
MPH - 91.95

Missed 4th on this one:
60 - 2.289
330 - 6.337
1/8 - 9.634
MPH - 75.41
1000 - 12.587
1/4 - 15.052
MPH - 92.27

60 - 2.293
330 - 6.347
1/8 - 9.671
MPH - 74.53
1000 - 12.556
1/4 - 14.963
MPH - 94.14

60 - 2.292
330 - 6.334
1/8 - 9.678
MPH - 72.90
1000 - 12.566
1/4 - 14.977
MPH - 93.84

After meeting up with some friends of mine last night, we timed the car again. Its set to 18*, and I lowered the fuel pressure to around 36 with vacuum off. Car doesn't seem to fall off from 3rd gear up now. It actually felt good. But I can't see timing and fuel pressure having THAT much of an effect (like 80 or so hp worth). :shrug:

Here's the motor combo:

Bored & balanced .020" 302 with forged TRW pistons (9.87 CR)
Thumper ported E7's with heavy duty springs (stock valve sizes)
Comp Cams XE270HR cam (218/224 @ .050, .512 in/.512 ex, 114lsa)
Ported Explorer upper and lower (lower ported to Fel-Pro 1250 gasket)
1.6 RRs
65mm TB and EGR spacer
New cap & rotor
FMS 9mm wires
Motorcraft plugs (one step colder than stock) gapped at 50
Underdrives
Mac unequal shorties, 2.5" off-road H, 2.5" Flowmasters
Walbro 190lph fuel pump
75mm Pro-M Mass air meter
24# injectors
Electric fans
T-5 trans
4.10 gears

That's about it, I think.

What do you guys think? According to Thumper with the ported E7's they've gone into the 12's with an E or B cam. I don't get it. Now I know this car is considerably heavier than a Mustang (3850 pounds last night), and that this motor should run nowhere near 12's on motor with street tires, but 15's?? :bang:

Sorry for the novel and thanks for any help. :nice:
 
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This was on regular street tires. I have a set of Hoosiers (I think they're like dirt track tires or something) that I've used with the old motor and got a 2.147 out of them. That's only a .001 difference. There was no way to launch the car hard with those street tires. I eased out of the hole a bit at 2000rpm and then gunned it.

Even still, this thing should pick up some MPH anyway - like closer to 100. You can see in my signature what the old motor went. This thing should easily be a low 14/high 13s. :(
 
Yeah, it should. You really aren't that heavy for an LSC. Even if you shaved 500lbs off and got down into LX territory, you'd only shave half a second. Be easier too tell if you had a few good clean runs with no missed shifts. Between those, the fuel pressure and timing, and the wrong tires, you could lose a second easy. Not any one of those things, but all at once... :shrug:
All street tires aren't created equal either- and I'm not talking about drag radials. Your rear suspension may just not be up to the task too.
 
After the 5 speed swap, the car lost a good few hundred pounds. I think it weighed in at 3796 or so back in March, with like a half tank of gas and me in it (175 pounds).

As far as the runs, the last two I didn't miss any shifts. lol

The rear suspension, is stilll riding on air bags, with KYB GR-2 shocks and poly bushings in stock upper and lower control arms. Oh, and the tires are Cooper Cobra GTZ's (not like that's saying much lol, just thought I'd throw it out there).

The car sure sounds mean with the cam, but it just doesn't have that "violent" feel to it when I hit the gas. :shrug:
 
Hm. Donno. Sounds like you still have some tuning to do. I had GTZ tires, and they didn't really do me any favors, but I think you need to get outa the hole faster. Maybe some 50/50's and springs, or move some weight around. If that engine is running right, it should pull better times, but by your slips, you're really scrubbing off the line. Unless you know for sure you have problems under the hood, I think you need to focus on hooking up.
 
dude i dont know if you didnt notice but you got better as you went along.

I think all you need to do is practice a lot more.

your mph went up each time as well(cept the last one)

turn fuel pressure to 39psi, timing at 14* and dont forget to put the spout back in or else its locked there with it out.

also, check and see what computer you have.

i strongly suggest if it is not, to install a A9L computer.
 
I have to agree with Yellow, 14* and around 36psi might be fine with the 24 pounders, but play with that. As far as the computer though, blah, you're computer should be fine, just take it somewhere and have a custom chip burnt for it, cause that could net you an easy 30 hp
 
i agree with night stalker, i think you still have some tuning to do. if you could afford it, i would suggest some dyno tuning and a custom chip. they would be able to find all your problems and get that motor to make its full power. those numbers sound way slow for your engine combo. i think you should be in the 13s with traction!!! good luck man
 
I take it you converted to Mass Air??/ WHat computer are you running?? A9L?? That Mass Air meter is calibrated for 24's right??


I think tuning is your issue. With a 9.87 CR, i am amazed you are running 18 degrees of timing. Most Mustangs usually get away with around 14 degrees.

Set the FP to 39psi vacuum off. It shou;d bump up to 43psi or so when the engine is under load.

Also, you might try opening your spark plug gap up a bit. 0.054" is the stock gap. You want to run as big of a gap as you can until you start expeirencing missfire and then back it down a bit.
 
if its 18* and the spout was never put back in, then it is LOCKED there...

therefor it is not as amazing.

but put that 18* and spout back and then it is veryyyyy amazing!


dude... as far as a chip... you dont need nothing with a A9L, we did trickflow heads cam intake on a 90lx with a A9L with stage one cam, track heat intake and made 321rwhp with only fuel and timing.

out of the box spark plug gap, and no cam degreeing.


i know apples to oranges, but i do truely think a chip is worthless unless you have idle issues..etc.
 
The ECM is an A9S from an 89 (or 88, I forget) 5 speed Mustang.

As far as getting better as I went along, I was beating the hell out of the car on every run, and to run the same (and worse) times than that tired 170k motor that was in there just doesn't seem right to me.

The plug gap idea I've thought about, especially with the better than stock coil (Crane) that's in there. I'll have to check that out.

The SPOUT connector is in. I made that mistake once a long time ago. Never again. lol

Dyno time is another thing I've been thinking about. I think that's the only way this car is gonna run the numbers it should. And I definitlely don't feel a custom chip is in order just yet, if at all.

I appreciate all the feedback. At least I'm not the only one who thinks this car is way off. lol
 
NYC LSC said:
The ECM is an A9S from an 89 (or 88, I forget) 5 speed Mustang.
Big difference. '88 had speed density, '89 had mass air. If you've got the wrong puter for your application, that could definately cause problems- although I don't know if it'd run at all... outa my zone on that call.
 
stangbear427 said:
Big difference. '88 had speed density, '89 had mass air. If you've got the wrong puter for your application, that could definately cause problems- although I don't know if it'd run at all... outa my zone on that call.

It would run noticably poor if he had a SD comp in.

But he doesn't anyway. The A9S is a Mass Air computer. It should run fine.
 
One thing that would help you is to get a short throw shifter as that would end the missed shift. I would definitely check computer, timing, and fuel delivery. With that setup you should be running a lot faster than that. One thing that you need to remember though is your mod list -I may have missed something because I just skimmed over it- doesn't reallly help your lower end. You probably have excellent upper band power but you lower is where you are lacking.

Question. Have you done anything with the electrical system other than wires and plugs? Do you have any stereo equipment?
 
UVBNHAD said:
One thing that would help you is to get a short throw shifter as that would end the missed shift. I would definitely check computer, timing, and fuel delivery. With that setup you should be running a lot faster than that. One thing that you need to remember though is your mod list -I may have missed something because I just skimmed over it- doesn't reallly help your lower end. You probably have excellent upper band power but you lower is where you are lacking.

Question. Have you done anything with the electrical system other than wires and plugs? Do you have any stereo equipment?

I've got a short throw shifter in there now. It's a B&M Ripper that I got with the rest of the 5 speed swap stuff. I also have a modified Pro 5.0 handle that's a LOT shorter than the previous handle. See in these cars, when you use a Fox body T-5, it's so short, that you'll bash your hand against the radio if you don't bend the handle back towards you. I think me missing shifts are attributed to the Bullitt style shifter knob. My hands kept slipping off the damn thing. lol

As far as the electrical system, It's got new plugs (Motorcraft's, one step colder than stock..32 something or other), cap, rotor and year old FMS 9mm wires. The stereo system came out of the '87 and went into my '95 daily driver.

I haven't checked the MAF volts, but I just reset the TPS (had to elongate the holes to get it under 1.03v). It's down to .97 now. I'll be taking it out again in a little while. Hopefully it being under a volt will help that God forsaken part throttle bucking the car's got (was there before the new motor).

I had the car out last night and today, and it seems to be a lot stronger than it was Friday night. We'll see come this Friday night again if it runs any better at the track.

Thanks for all the help, guys. I knew I came to the right place. :nice: