Who wants to see the pictures I took today of the 2005 Mustang GT? (56K Killer!)
- Thread starter Reimann
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Build Quality, and Value
I just have a few things to say to people that complain about "cheap" plastics and interior panels.
Firstly, there is no such thing as "cheap" plastic, it's all super expensive. For a reality check, call up a plastic injection molder and get a rough estimate on a 36"x15"x20" part, like a large piece of a dash. True, Ford runs a bulk of each piece, and that drives the cost down, but still, plastic injection molding is expensive. The physical and aesthetic feel of the presentable side of the part is given consideration, but not above durability. The interiors are meant to last, unlike most European and Asian cars. Go find a five year old Benz, not a long lasting car, without insane maintenance. The interior of the 05 looks as though it was designed to still be intact 30 years later. Even that broken A/C vent, those vents are so much better than the vents with vanes. The linkage between the two covers might break, like that one, but you can still open and close both, where if you pulled too hard on the little tab on the vanes, you broke the vane with the tab, and the vent wouldn't turn, or close. That dash probably won't crack under the sun(I've seen it in my girlfriends late model Nissan, was like that before she even bought it). God forbid your Stang ever get stolen, but if they try to steal your radio, they can't just tear you center console apart like my friends Honda, cause the plastic is thicker and harder. The SN95 interior was too soft in my opinion, if you pushed too hard on the upper dash, it leaves a mark!
And another side rant while I'm at it. People that say this car should cost less, or is over priced: are you insane? The car is based on a platform engineered by Jaguar and Lincoln, the weight distribution is almost 50/50, so the handling will be better than any Stang has ever seen before. It will ride quieter, longer and better than other "economy" coupes. They are cranking more horsepower out than ever before. They designed a brand new 3 valve system WITH variable valve timing, something most luxury cars are just now getting. They designed a solid rear axle, from scratch, that should perform as well as an IRS. Your gonna have trunk space. As others have said, the interior is, undeniably, a leap ahead from the SN95. It will have a trip computer. Drive by wire. What more could you possibly expect for relatively the same price as the last Generation? The Lincoln LS costs around $39k(V8), the Ford Thunderbird around $38k, and the Jaguar S-Type(V8) around $48k. And yet, the Mustang, who shares the same base platform(DEW97, converted to SI97 for coupes), with a V8 will cost around $24k? And have lots of the same features? Damn. What a rip off. (Lots and lots of sarcasm there.)
I just have a few things to say to people that complain about "cheap" plastics and interior panels.
Firstly, there is no such thing as "cheap" plastic, it's all super expensive. For a reality check, call up a plastic injection molder and get a rough estimate on a 36"x15"x20" part, like a large piece of a dash. True, Ford runs a bulk of each piece, and that drives the cost down, but still, plastic injection molding is expensive. The physical and aesthetic feel of the presentable side of the part is given consideration, but not above durability. The interiors are meant to last, unlike most European and Asian cars. Go find a five year old Benz, not a long lasting car, without insane maintenance. The interior of the 05 looks as though it was designed to still be intact 30 years later. Even that broken A/C vent, those vents are so much better than the vents with vanes. The linkage between the two covers might break, like that one, but you can still open and close both, where if you pulled too hard on the little tab on the vanes, you broke the vane with the tab, and the vent wouldn't turn, or close. That dash probably won't crack under the sun(I've seen it in my girlfriends late model Nissan, was like that before she even bought it). God forbid your Stang ever get stolen, but if they try to steal your radio, they can't just tear you center console apart like my friends Honda, cause the plastic is thicker and harder. The SN95 interior was too soft in my opinion, if you pushed too hard on the upper dash, it leaves a mark!
And another side rant while I'm at it. People that say this car should cost less, or is over priced: are you insane? The car is based on a platform engineered by Jaguar and Lincoln, the weight distribution is almost 50/50, so the handling will be better than any Stang has ever seen before. It will ride quieter, longer and better than other "economy" coupes. They are cranking more horsepower out than ever before. They designed a brand new 3 valve system WITH variable valve timing, something most luxury cars are just now getting. They designed a solid rear axle, from scratch, that should perform as well as an IRS. Your gonna have trunk space. As others have said, the interior is, undeniably, a leap ahead from the SN95. It will have a trip computer. Drive by wire. What more could you possibly expect for relatively the same price as the last Generation? The Lincoln LS costs around $39k(V8), the Ford Thunderbird around $38k, and the Jaguar S-Type(V8) around $48k. And yet, the Mustang, who shares the same base platform(DEW97, converted to SI97 for coupes), with a V8 will cost around $24k? And have lots of the same features? Damn. What a rip off. (Lots and lots of sarcasm there.)
Mock1 said:
First of all, I agree with you in that I am sick of everyone wanting a 450hp, 4 seater that can outhandle a Porsche, have a better interior than a luxury car and cost $20k.
That being said, I still think Ford could have done a little better with the interior (both in layout and materials). But, that is the price for a 300hp/320tq V8.
And, please don't confuse Lincoln, Jaguar and Ford as being seperate entities. They only way they were able to offer any of those vehicles is by sharing platforms. And, I hope you are not asserting the Mustang is on anywhere near the same level of vehicle as the others you mentioned (as a complete package). Also, don't forget the price of the badge itself. People expect to pay more for a Jag or Lincoln than a Ford. That doesn't make either of them particularly good values, it is just the nature of brand expectations.
The only way to determine if a car is a good value (i.e. priced right) is by comparing it to its competition. What people are reacting to is relatively high-quality interiors from Mazda, Subaru and others that are priced in the same league, or even cheaper than the Mustang. Now, I am all for durability, but how many people will have their car that long, and how do you even know it will stand up well throughout the years?
And considering all the sharing going on (platform, engine, etc.), and they fact there hasn't been a new platform in 25 years, Ford could have done a little better in terms of quality and affordability. But, I have driven the new car, and it is a huge step in the right direction. It has something for eveyone (space for 4, great engine, smooth ride), but it is not the best in any of those categories.
EVERYONE must remember that Ford sacrificed interior, and other elements of the car to get a 300hp, 320tq V8 into a roomy 4-seater for $26k-ish. That is that--you can't have both. Buy it or don't, no level of complaining will help.
Mock1 said:
S197 is not really based of the Lincoln LS & Jag S-type. About the only thing in common is part of the floor pan, some of the electronics. D/EW-98 was the inspiration for S197, but saying it shares is a stretch.
However, I agree with the main thought of your post. The '05 Stang is going to be an incredible car for the money. I just don't understand all the the whining and complaining that goes on here.
its an improvement from the old model, but the last model was soo far behind that this one is probably behind too
Dan P. said:Any one notice something missing in the engine bay?
The strut bars that go from the strut towers the the fire wall.
I think those have been deleted from the Mustang since 1998?(shock tower braces) I asked the same question when I took delivery of my 2000 GT from the dealer back in 2000
BETTERBULLITT
Founding Member
Mustang5L5 said:
Us guys that use radar detectors appreciate having one(a power outlet) that is close to the front window.. So that we don't have to run 8 feet of wire from the console to the detector..
Slithering_Joe
Founding Member
Exactly, Actually I find that placement for a power outlet to be pretty practicalmanicmustangman said:
Slithering_Joe
Founding Member
I love the new model, I just pray Ford built a quality car. The Mustang is the only reason I recognize Ford. If there is anybody out there that says expect to have quality issues with a 225+ hp car for the money you are a complete frigg'n idiot!!!
I'll be anxiously waiting for the new Cobra when it comes out.
...I still thing the power outlet is in a dumb place. While something is plugged in, having a power cord in the way of the controls is a bad design in my opinion.
For those that don't know what 'quality' means, it doesn't mean good gas mileage or a stiff ride. It means, the A/C works, the headlights don't yellow, the paint doesn't peel, just to name a few. ...cough, '94 Mustang, cough....
I'll be anxiously waiting for the new Cobra when it comes out.
...I still thing the power outlet is in a dumb place. While something is plugged in, having a power cord in the way of the controls is a bad design in my opinion.
For those that don't know what 'quality' means, it doesn't mean good gas mileage or a stiff ride. It means, the A/C works, the headlights don't yellow, the paint doesn't peel, just to name a few. ...cough, '94 Mustang, cough....
CarrollShelby
Banned
I hate to beat the bad interior horse but I just wanted to add my two cents.
Whats makes this interior look bad to me is knowing it takes stuff from every other car in the ford line, the focus layout for the center (including the shifter knob and boot). The vents from the new f-150, the needles on the gauges look like they are from an LS. When I get into my 90GT it feels unique (except for some escorts haveing some of the same switches). The Sn95's felt unique. The 99's and up felt unique. Hopefully when I get the money to buy one and I sit in it, it will feel unique as every mustang before it has.
Besides that little snafu from looking at pictures it is very promising. Ford hasnt seen many problems with the 3 valve technology. You guys are going to hate the drive by wire. I was a ford technician before I went into highschool and when that drive by wire came out on the EXPLORER it made sense for a smoother ride. But if u try revving up your mustang, everyone will laugh at you while your car is deciding there is no need to go above 3K RPM while the clutch is in. Or when you think going from 10% throttle to 100% just to kick the car sideways from a roll, the pcm aint gonna let you do that as quick and nimble as before. Just pray that ford put the signal straight from the pedal to the throttlebody, otherwise you will be seeing some aftermarket companies takeing control of it with a module or what not.
Anyways thankgod they revamped it with no competition, hopefully the cobra's will have the same small increase in price the GT had!
Charles
Whats makes this interior look bad to me is knowing it takes stuff from every other car in the ford line, the focus layout for the center (including the shifter knob and boot). The vents from the new f-150, the needles on the gauges look like they are from an LS. When I get into my 90GT it feels unique (except for some escorts haveing some of the same switches). The Sn95's felt unique. The 99's and up felt unique. Hopefully when I get the money to buy one and I sit in it, it will feel unique as every mustang before it has.
Besides that little snafu from looking at pictures it is very promising. Ford hasnt seen many problems with the 3 valve technology. You guys are going to hate the drive by wire. I was a ford technician before I went into highschool and when that drive by wire came out on the EXPLORER it made sense for a smoother ride. But if u try revving up your mustang, everyone will laugh at you while your car is deciding there is no need to go above 3K RPM while the clutch is in. Or when you think going from 10% throttle to 100% just to kick the car sideways from a roll, the pcm aint gonna let you do that as quick and nimble as before. Just pray that ford put the signal straight from the pedal to the throttlebody, otherwise you will be seeing some aftermarket companies takeing control of it with a module or what not.
Anyways thankgod they revamped it with no competition, hopefully the cobra's will have the same small increase in price the GT had!
Charles
As a newbie to this forum, and a guy that NEVER liked any of the mustangs after 1970, I am glad the '05 is being released with a retro appearance. When I was a kid, I would ask my dad, "Why did Ford change the design of the Mustang? Didn't they realize it was perfect the way it was?" Maybe I was old before my time
Slithering_Joe
Founding Member
I can't imagine that being friendly. My first thoughts were you will have some people farg'n around with that and then all of a sudden some glitch causes the car to go wide open throttle! Some things like brakes, steering and throttle should remain mechanical. I know there are numerous cars out there with "fly-by-wire" tech but I don't like it.Pitch4pd said:
Pitch4pd said:
You're a little off base here Charles.
Your 90GT interior parts are NOT unique. It's just that some of the parts are so old, dadting back to 1979 that Ford quit making all the other cars that share your 90GT's interior parts a long time before 90.
I have a '01 GT and its interior parts are NOT unique. Power window switches are stock Ford parts bin used on millions of Taurus's. Steering wheel is stock Ford Parts bin (other than the pony logo) same as used on millions of Taurs's, Sables, CV, GMs etc, etc. Headlight switch is the same thing that dates back to the late 1970s. Audio system looks like the same thing used in almost every other FoMoCo product from the 1990s. Heater controls are the same as LTD-IIs, early Taurus's (and probably Fairmonts - can't rememeber that far back) used. How in the world does that make SN-95s feel unique?
As far as ETC goes, it is needed to make the VCT work properly. While auto trannie cars have the 3K neutral rev limiter, MTX cars will not have a neutral rev limiter. When I first got my 2003 Lincoln LS there was throttle lag. However after the latest software update the whole engine and trannie control system including the ETC works great. A Ford engineer told me that the 05 Mustang has software improvements over what the LS has too. You can't compare the first Explorer ETC system with what the '05 Stang has. That's the beauty of computer control, the software will continually be improved and is easy to update.
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