Turbo Motor Pics.. Need Opinions (DUW)

[Dr_EluSivE]

Alright, so i finally took apart my turbo motor.. atleast the top end of it anyway and It actually looks really good but I havent worked on one of these before so I want some opinions on what i have..... and now.. the pics....

First off.. The head.. there is ZERO oil sludge in this head. which really suprises me. Im guessing its been rebuilt recently.

Chambers have a little carbon, but not too bad.

Now the cyl i have some questions about. Looks like i have some staining in one cyl, and the Back two are Dirtier then front two. What i found strange is that the front 2 pistons have a "3" stamped in them and the back 2 have a "4" stamped in them. is this normal? the pistons themselves appear to be in good shape and the cyl walls are smooth to the touch with no ridges or scoring.

Well, what do you guys think? I am guessing i can just re ring it, Hone the cyl walls and go. Any input is welcomed.

Dr.

 

[Dan'l]

valve seat

Hopefully it's just the pic, but the #3 valve seat looks like it may have a crack at 1 o'clock in the picture.

 

[Stinger]

Put it back together and run it....

Does your n/a motor have sludge in it? I've never taken apart a 2.3 that was any dirtier than what I'm seeing in these pics.

 

[Red_LX]

Looks like that engine was sitting for awhile.

Dan'l, what are you talking about? You can't see anything under all that carbon/oil grime. Probably just something with that.

Anyway, besides what you mentioned, check the valve guides. My engine I'm rebuilding had about 145K on it and some of the valve guides were way out. Easy way to check the play in them is to take the spring off, slide the valve out just enough where you can grab the valve face around the outside and wiggle it.

 

[Dr_EluSivE]

Put it back together and run it....

Does your n/a motor have sludge in it? I've never taken apart a 2.3 that was any dirtier than what I'm seeing in these pics.

Stinger, ive not taken apart the N/A motor yet, I gotta drive it though the winter. Other motors i have taken apart though have always had sludge in them so i guess thats what i was used to. Some of what you may be seeing is WD40 making it look wet. I used some to try to clean things off a little. I am going to check the bearings and rings and will likely just throw some rings and bearings in it and put it back together.

Red, The motor has been sitting for at least 2 years in my garage, Who knows how long it was sitting someplace else. I have a feeling it hasnt ran in a long time. I havent taken the pan off yet so i dont know what i will find on the bottom end but hopfully that will happen in the next few days. The head has "RBLT OK" stamped on the back of it in ink and the gaskets looked pretty new too so i am guessing that the valve seals are good but i will check it out when i change cams.

Dan, i rotated the cam around and looked at the seats and the looked pretty good but i will check everything again before its put back together.

Anyone know whats up with the numbers on the pistons?

Dr.

 

[Red_LX]

The pistons, beats me. Mine were stamped like that too.

 

[Stinger]

Yep, my pistons are like that too...

 

[Dr_EluSivE]

got a couple more questions for ya.. Should i use the round tooth timing sprockets off the mustang? or the square from the TC motor. #2 it looks like the Accessory drive is different on the TC, do i use the WP and crank pulley from my 'stang? or should i use the TC accessorys. I ask because if i should use the stang stuff i wont bother cleaning the TC stuff.

Dr.

 

[140cilx]

Dr.

It's easiest to just unbolt the brackets for the accessories from your n/a engine like the power steering pump and a/c (if you keep it) and just strap them outta the way next to your inner fenders. Pull the engine out, swap the front end stuff like the waterpump and thermostat you know are working well, doesn't matter on the timing gears you choose imo, drop the turbo engine in and bolt that stuff back on.
I'd do what Stinger said. I wouldn't re-ring it or do anything to the bottom other than replace the front and rear seals. I'd have the head dipped, put new valve seals on it, do you're flow work on it. Get the engine back together and get it in.
Or you can go all out like I did on the LX - but willikers it's a lot of money!
My svo doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil & just rolled over 156k.

 

[Dr_EluSivE]

Dr.
I'd do what Stinger said. I wouldn't re-ring it or do anything to the bottom other than replace the front and rear seals. I'd have the head dipped, put new valve seals on it, do you're flow work on it. Get the engine back together and get it in.
Or you can go all out like I did on the LX - but willikers it's a lot of money!
My svo doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil & just rolled over 156k.

Im just curious why people recommend this course of action. I have the motor out, and apart. a rebuild kit doesnt cost that much Why not just do it? I plan on keeping this car around a while so i want to do it right the first time. The problem i have is i have NO idea how much milage is on this motor. Could be 50k , could be 500k i just dont know, And i would hate to find out it has insane blowby the first time i fire it up in the car. Other then the money aspect, why SHOULDNT i rebuild it? Im not gonna do any machine work other then a hone, and i havent decided what to do with the head yet. I currently plan to rering with Std's and go. I have a rebuild manual, stingers wiring instructions, and a mechanic friend who can help me if i need it. I just fear that i will put it in stock and end up with a smoking underpowered waste of time. Im not totally discounting your advice, i am just curious why you suggest it.

Dr.

 

[140cilx]

I understand you doctor - I'd just go real light w/ the hone, make sure you only knock off the glaze and be done w/ it.
Seems so many engine rebuilds burn more oil than they did prior. YOU ARE NOT BORING IT PEOPLE! If you've got one that show's everythings healthy I'd keep it like that for as long as possible.
On the other hand, when I did the LX block I honed it lightly and was my regular really major anal self about wiping down the cylinder walls, putting it back together carefully and it doesn't seem to burn a drop. I'm sure you'll do likewise.

 

[Red_LX]

Well, I'm more or less complete redoing the engine I'm building (honed, new moly rings, had crank journals polished, etc). The engine had 145K on it and the endgap on the stock rings was out a bit so I figured they were due up for replacement anyway. The block had some kinda deep scratches in some of the cylinder walls but the pistons all checked out ok, so I dunno. I'm expecting to have some blowby but hopefully nothing major and hopefully it'll run pretty good. If not, well...I don't have a ton of money in the engine so it's not a huge loss.

At any rate it's gotta be better than the engine that's in the car now, which is spewing oil from every orifice.

 

[Dr_EluSivE]

I understand you doctor - I'd just go real light w/ the hone, make sure you only knock off the glaze and be done w/ it.
Seems so many engine rebuilds burn more oil than they did prior. YOU ARE NOT BORING IT PEOPLE! If you've got one that show's everythings healthy I'd keep it like that for as long as possible.
On the other hand, when I did the LX block I honed it lightly and was my regular really major anal self about wiping down the cylinder walls, putting it back together carefully and it doesn't seem to burn a drop. I'm sure you'll do likewise.

yeah, my friend has done Many engines, he has a Mic set. so i plan to check the clearances on everything before it goes back together. And yes, i was planning only a light hone. I head is whats gonna cost money and i havent decided what do to with it yet, but i probably should do a rebuild with atleast new seals on it. I wish i could port it but i have no skills in that area and would likely just screw it up badly, Im a broadcaster, not a machinist so ill leave that part alone. I need to send my injectors off and have them cleaned, but other then that the motor is going back mostly stock.

couple more ?'s as well. The 12Pt head bolts.... replace or reuse? And what are the diffrences in the gasket kits? i *think* this motor is an 87 but when you go to order gaskets there are 2 different kits that split in the middle of 86. I WILL be using a T3, are the different gasket kits for the different turbo used in 87?

Dr.

 

[Stinger]

I've had my SVO apart like that as well...guess what...I never pulled the pistons and I've got big plans for it.

Pull the bearings and look at them...that will tell you the mileage.

 

[140cilx]

The 12pts are reusable and I would use them again if the threads are in good shape. I don't care much for the replacement TTY bolts.

I'd get the gaskets you need from Ford imo. They may just hand you Felpro stuff anyway on some of them. I think the Oil pan gasket is the same between the '86-88 anyway - so I don't think that question is an issue for you. I like the Ford lower intake gasket and the Ford Cam Cover Gasket is def the best - both better than the Felpro versions. There are no turbo gaskets in the gasket kit. You need to order the little metal gasket between the E6 and the turbo separately, it comes in a two pack so you'll have a spare.

You can get new Turbo to E6 nuts from SVPU.com or Maximum Motorsports and these won't vibrate/heat cycle loose on you. It's worthwhile because when those come loose they'll burn out the E6/turbo gasket and you gotta pull the whole thing again - pain in the butt.

You need the Valve seals, the front and rear main seals, the aux gear seal and the cam gear as well. The Front crank seal, aux gear seal, cam gear seal are all the same btw. I'd get all these from Ford, an autozone cam gear seal we put in last week I know is gonna be a bear to get out. Go Ford where you can and you'll get better than 100k outta them.

my 2 cents worth.

 

[Dr_EluSivE]

thanks 140, when you reringed your motor what brand rings did you use? I know alot of people get the federal mogal rings from northern autoparts but would ford replacements be better? Also do you (or anyone else) know what comes with the $139 bearing and ring kit. it says it comes With gaskets but it does not say which ones. (head, intake exh, etc) I will check with the local ford dealer and get the gaskets you reccomend. My head bolts looked good so Ill reuse those. Im still not sure what to do with this head. It has been rebuilt at some point but i dont know when. The cam cover gasket and head gasket almost looked new when i took them off. But the chambers are full of carbon so i cant tell how old this head is. I do know though that the motor was running a bad turbo so that could account for some of the dirtyness in the chambers. The head though is alot easier to work on later then the bottom end is so i wanna spend my money there first.

Dr.

 

[140cilx]

I think I purchased the last Ford stock rings available which have been discontinued. Stinger bought right behind me from Green Sales which bought all the obsolete/discontinued bulk from Ford and his set were oxidized so he went with something else and called me names on the boards for awhile for my recommend.

-dunno the answer to your kit question.

If you are gonna leave the head alone, take it to a machine shop and have it dipped, it will look like new. Do a valve job yourself, put in new valve seals, throw the lifters/cam/rockers back in and wallah! New head! It'll be ready for you when you are ready for it.

 

[Asha'man]

I'm gonna jump in on this one because I have a shortblock and head sitting in my buddy's garage waiting to be rebuilt. I was planning on having the head freshened, and have been hearing around $200 for that. Clean, valve job, seals, etc, and install the RR cam. It looks about like Dr's does, same kind of crap in the chambers, generally pretty icky all around. Good idea to send it in? I'm no machinist either, haven't the slightest idea how to do valve seals or a valve job.

The block turns with no problem, but it's filthy, pistons are black, and I have no clue as to the mileage or even what it came out of originally. I can't find any crosshatch in the cylinders, but haven't looked at the bearings. I was thinking clean/hone/rering/bearings on it, and have a shop do that too. Worth it? I have pics of most stuff, but I'm at school right now.

Ash

 

[Red_LX]

140, what's so bad about Felpro gaskets? I got a full Felpro gasket kit from Advance for my engine, looks like all nice quality stuff to me. Well...except for the cork valve cover gasket. Gonna get one of the rubber ones instead of that.

DR- my full gasket kit came with everything- I mean turbo gaskets too. It's a complete kit. I bought my bearings and rings seperately because I didn't get them all at the same time.

Also Asha if you're wondering as far as costs for the head goes, I paid $50 to have my head hot tanked and have new cam bearings installed, and then $160 for new valve guides and a valve job. So yeah, it is around $200 for head work, it's the most expensive part of the whole deal.

 

[140cilx]

140, what's so bad about Felpro gaskets?

Well you mentioned the problem with the cam cover gasket, but the blue one Felpro makes doesn't fit very well. The Ford one fits perfect. Same thing on the lower intake to head gasket. The Ford one has more gasket on the bottom side and if you hear about someone blowing that gasket and developing a vacuum leak - I betcha it's a Felpro. Otherwise they're fine. I just use a Ford OEM gasket wherever I can.

Ashaman - valve seals are a snap to do. Go to Sears and buy a valve spring compressor - this would be the only tool you've not got in your box you need to do the job. Run a search, it's simple, basically remove the rockers, springs, valve, pull off the old seal, push on the new one.

Valve job is simple. Go to the autostore and buy some valve grinding compound, get a foot long piece of vacuum line, run some searches on valve grinding. You don't need any of the complicated tools to do a simple valve job to make sure your valve's are getting a good seal.

It's really easy to make a head like new again. Disassemble, dip, do valve job, add valve seals, reassemble. Oh, I'd add some engine assembly lube to the shopping list to put on the cam bearings and lobes and on the valve stems before they go up into the valve guides.