2005 stock dyno numbers 279rwhp 300TQ

[kirkyg]

Why does it always have to turn to a X vs. Y match? the Mach 1 is a wonderful car. I've driven one and loved it and wished i had waited to buy one before getting my GT. However, the new 05 GT has a few legs up on it. Now it appears maybe a few rwhp and alot of quality. Remember the 05 GT is a little heavier and it doesn't have a suspension built for dragging like the Mach does. With a little tuning the 05 GT will be putting down low 13's on street tires and 12's with slicks.

I have and will continue to have respect for both cars...although if it comes to a choice id probably buy the 05 GT for quality over all else.

kirkyg

 

[rich8566]

I reiterate my question: Given the power fall off just after 5000 rpm, what is the optimal shift point on the new 05 GT to get the quickest acceleration? Also, what is the optimal lauch RPM?

 

[RandyB]

**shudders in rememberance of the flaming I got by people on the Mach 1 registry early this year when I asked an innocent question regarding the comparable Mach and 05 performance before the numbers came out**

Nah they aren't touchy at all.

LOL! Hey both are great cars. I have a '98 Cobra and it doesn't bother me that the new GT is probably faster. And I would love to have a Mach motor in my car over the old 4V. They are all great cars/engines - no need to feel bad about anything. Make no mistake though, the new Mustang is a much better CAR than the old ones.

 

[kirkyg]

I reiterate my question: Given the power fall off just after 5000 rpm, what is the optimal shift point on the new 05 GT to get the quickest acceleration? Also, what is the optimal lauch RPM?

Where's this big powerdrop off?

5000 rpms - 275hp
5250 rpms - 279hp
5500 rpms - 275hp
5750 rpms - 268hp
6000 rpms - 267hp
6250 rpms - 260hp
???????

If you do the math with gear ratios i guarantee you its advantageous to shift at redline. Can these cars rev past 6250? If they can you should be shifting HIGHER than 6250 assuming the power droppoff matchs that of the 4valve.

kirkyg

 

[new22003]

I reiterate my question: Given the power fall off just after 5000 rpm, what is the optimal shift point on the new 05 GT to get the quickest acceleration? Also, what is the optimal lauch RPM?

People still seem experimenting with shift points. You can read a thread here with a guy who has experimened a bit.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=514024

 

[kirkyg]

Lets say for instance:

first gear ratio is 3.38:1 and second gear is 2.00:1

If you shift at 6250 rpms @ 260 hp:
3.38 * 260 hp = 878.8 affective HP.

Now what rpm will you be at when you shift @ 6250?:
2.00/3.38 = .5917
6250 * .5917 = 3698 rpms

The powercurve at 3698 is 210hp
210hp * 2.00= 420 Affective HP.

You dropping your power in HALF if you shift even at 6250. If the crank can handle it id say shift closer to a mach ones redline but i'm not sure if it will handle that high of rpms without a forged crank.

kirkyg

 

[kirkyg]

The problem is that people 'feel' like their cars power is dropping off. In essense its moving fast but you don't feel that acceleration because hp is is staying in the same area or dropping slightly. However, when you downshift you feel torque begin to increase again so the SOTP feeling makes you think your moving faster.

kirkyg

 

[rich8566]

I like the analyis, however, I thought it was the torque that provided the acceleration. Do the numbers still hold at 6250 shift point vs 5250?

Note that torgque drops from the 275-300 ft/lb range to the 200-250 ft-lb range from 5500-6250 rpm

 

[351CJ]

It means this platform is a TOTAL FLOP! I pray this car is getting it's times with improved traction for the sake of us Mustang fans, because if it's motor it isn't doing any better hooking than the 35 year old fox bodies.

JMO

35 year old fox body?

By my calculator, 35 years ago it was 1969.


Total flop? Sound's like that's a pretty hostile statement.

By the way C&D got 13.8 @ 102 for a 2005 GT.
But C&D got 14.0 @ 103 for a 2003 Mach 1 MTX.

With the Mach 1's smaller diameter tires it effectively has a 3.76 rear end compared to the 05 GT's 3.55 with larger tires. Sound's to me like a Mach 1 should be a full second faster than an '05 GT.

 

[351CJ]

Can these cars rev past 6250? If they can you should be shifting HIGHER than 6250 assuming the power droppoff matchs that of the 4valve.

kirkyg

No, the listed red-line for the 05 - 3V is 6,000 RPM with fuel shutoff @ 6,250 RPM. So 6,250 is it.

Fuel shutoff on a Mach 1 is 6,800 RPM. Not 100% sure of the listed red-line

 

[Omegalock]

LOL! Hey both are great cars. I have a '98 Cobra and it doesn't bother me that the new GT is probably faster. And I would love to have a Mach motor in my car over the old 4V. They are all great cars/engines - no need to feel bad about anything. Make no mistake though, the new Mustang is a much better CAR than the old ones.

I know and I love the Mach too bad I couldn't afford one, but I had to give a little gig to SOME(not the some guys) Mach owners who were just defiant to the end. I had yahoos trying to tell me the 05 GT wouldn't be faster than the current GTs and even if it was as fast as the Mach it would still "suck" because it was a mass production car. Never thought I'd hear such stuff from Mustang owners about another Mustang. Takes all kinds though I suppose. I don't really care if the 05 is faster than the Mach if it is that's great. I just want it to be roughly as fast as a Mach so the 05 GT can take down the true enemy...those freakin bowties and ricers. For as much trash talk is coming in from the Mach camp the trash talk on the 05 is thousands time worse from the evil Generals minions.


Just joking about the evil General stuff for those that can't pick up on internet humor.

 

[kirkyg]

No, the listed red-line for the 05 - 3V is 6,000 RPM with fuel shutoff @ 6,250 RPM. So 6,250 is it.

Fuel shutoff on a Mach 1 is 6,800 RPM. Not 100% sure of the listed red-line

I've seen multiple sources that state the 05 GT redline is 6250. I dont really know how to find an official number on it though. I doubt fuel cutoff is that low. Fuel cutoff on my 02 gt is higher than that.

kirkyg

 

[Sainted]

Given the dyno data, what's the optimal shift point with the 5 speed manual to maximize acceleration?

I would say 5500 the torque rolls off but the hp levels off if you shift at 5500 it will drop you down into the strong torque section and the riseing hp section helping accleration. Also you will be in 4th longer/sooner in the fat part of the torque to help with the 1.00 4th ratio. Reading other post I would say depending on traction launch at 4000rpm.

 

[Sainted]

Notice the HP really flattens out at 5,200 RPM.

Seems to agree with the comments by the 2 people who have dragged their MTX GTs that it seems to flatten out at 5,500 RPM.

Now we need to figure out what the high RPM HP bottle neck is.

Hydrocarbon trap in 05

 

[Hawkeye421]

Why would Ford derate the HP....Insurance????

 

[Stang8URMPRT]

Right when I saw it compared to a Mach 1, I knew we'd get Mach1 owners bitching. haha. I love it. You all are so defensive of your Mach 1s? Why? Who cares if the 05 makes more then your car? This is a base v-8 making more power then your 32 valve 01 Cobra motor. Why don't you just get used to it and realize your cars aren't as powerful as you all wish they are.

 

[351CJ]

Why would Ford derate the HP....Insurance????

Because there will always be variation in power output from one engine to the next.

And most owners will be a lot happier if the car they buy is spec-ed at 300 HP and they find out later it really puts out 320 HP than if they buy a car rated at 320 HP and the later find out it only puts out 318 HP.

 

[351CJ]

I would say 5500 the torque rolls off but the hp levels off if you shift at 5500 it will drop you down into the strong torque section and the riseing hp section helping accleration. Also you will be in 4th longer/sooner in the fat part of the torque to help with the 1.00 4th ratio. Reading other post I would say depending on traction launch at 4000rpm.

Not necessarily. In spite of the link someone provided that said top end HP is important to acceleration, HP is Torque over time. When you are trying to accelerate time is your enemy. The engine's ability to increase RPMs is extremely important, which goes back to why Torque is still more important than HP. Yea, HP is flat from 5,200 - 6,000 RPM, but a flat HP curve tells you that torque is decreasing which means the rate the engine can increase RPMs is decreasing. <--- that concept is important! This is why the 05 owners who are running their cars are telling us that the engine feels flat above 5,500 RPM.

Based on the air-flow characteristics of the 3V heads, all of this data tells me that there is room for significant improvement in the 05, 4.6 - 3V engine. Once the tuners (or owners) figure out exactly what is limiting the 3V's top end, watch out.

 

[Mach428]

35 year old fox body?
By the way C&D got 13.8 @ 102 for a 2005 GT.
But C&D got 14.0 @ 103 for a 2003 Mach 1 MTX.

Thats a pretty crappy time for a Mach. My first time EVER to a strip stock I did 13.5 in my 04 Mach @ 105 with a crappy 2.4 60 foot.

I love the new GT, so much so I considered selling my Mach to my Brother and buying the 05. Sorry, but it's not going to be very exciting when there's crap loads of them on the road

 

[mach1dsg]

No, the listed red-line for the 05 - 3V is 6,000 RPM with fuel shutoff @ 6,250 RPM. So 6,250 is it.

Fuel shutoff on a Mach 1 is 6,800 RPM. Not 100% sure of the listed red-line

mach 1 redline is at 6800rpm
fuel shut off is at 7050rpm