Emil
New Member
The M5 and E55 are great cars, no doubt about it but how can you compare them to cars costing 1/2 the price? Not a real fair comparo.
I'm very happy with my junker
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I'm very happy with my junker
.04 Cobra or 05 GT
- Thread starter Svtpilot
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Didn't read most of the trash.......
IMO 03/04 Cobra hands down. It's a car that is the best Fox ever built and less than 20,000 produced vs. a car that will have a 100 thousand on the steet in less than 2 years. I know the excitement of the 05 is hot right now but everyone in their brother that wants one will have one soon. JMO
The Cobra is a 12's sec car the GT isn't.....so close is all how you think. Would anyone want a Buick GN right now? That's how rare these cars are.
IMO 03/04 Cobra hands down. It's a car that is the best Fox ever built and less than 20,000 produced vs. a car that will have a 100 thousand on the steet in less than 2 years. I know the excitement of the 05 is hot right now but everyone in their brother that wants one will have one soon. JMO
The Cobra is a 12's sec car the GT isn't.....so close is all how you think. Would anyone want a Buick GN right now? That's how rare these cars are.
you are right its not fair.. but!!!!!!
yes its true not to compare, but there are inexpensive cars that are built great,, not slapped together...under the guise of extra power,,, its especially true when you buy something quality made,,, long after you pay for it, you are left with the feeling did i get what i paid for,,, you can only floor it so much before you say,, ,hey is this thing any good?? my daughter has the little echo hatchback,,, of course its an ugly little car by comparison,, but you would not believe the quality toyota puts in to it,,, its really quite remarkable. american cars are getting better because they have to in order to compete....we all win,,,, i owned older corvettes , big block and small blocks,,, older chrysler muscle cars,,, etc,, most of them overheated, and were crap.... compared to some cars of today,,, thats all im saying.... im trying to buy a ford gt,,,,red with white stripes,,, but every dealer i talk to wants a fortune over retail which is 139 u.s. their markups are stupid,,,,
yes its true not to compare, but there are inexpensive cars that are built great,, not slapped together...under the guise of extra power,,, its especially true when you buy something quality made,,, long after you pay for it, you are left with the feeling did i get what i paid for,,, you can only floor it so much before you say,, ,hey is this thing any good?? my daughter has the little echo hatchback,,, of course its an ugly little car by comparison,, but you would not believe the quality toyota puts in to it,,, its really quite remarkable. american cars are getting better because they have to in order to compete....we all win,,,, i owned older corvettes , big block and small blocks,,, older chrysler muscle cars,,, etc,, most of them overheated, and were crap.... compared to some cars of today,,, thats all im saying.... im trying to buy a ford gt,,,,red with white stripes,,, but every dealer i talk to wants a fortune over retail which is 139 u.s. their markups are stupid,,,,
Quality made? This is over blown IMO, The reason some cars seem to be built better is because like the little Toyotas they don't have enough power to really stress the body and are driven by a more conservative type driver.
My best friend had a Toyota pickup that he used on his rural mail route and it lasted 250k on the motor but the body was held together with bailing wire. Within a year it was trash from all the bad dirt roads.
The point here is these aren't BMW's and neither is the 05 but you put a 300+ HP engine with high torque and drag race it your going to get squeaks. Those cars you’re comparing the mustang too will be a pile of rubble in no time if they had theses engines, even Toyota. I’ve had 3 late models and don’t have any issues, if you want a Honda get one, those rubber band cars will go a long time since they're never abused. Even the higher HP cars have almost no torque to shock the chassis, fit and finish could be better with the Mustang but for me I’m not taking a mic out to see I’m a 1/16 of an inch off on fit. JMO
My best friend had a Toyota pickup that he used on his rural mail route and it lasted 250k on the motor but the body was held together with bailing wire. Within a year it was trash from all the bad dirt roads.
The point here is these aren't BMW's and neither is the 05 but you put a 300+ HP engine with high torque and drag race it your going to get squeaks. Those cars you’re comparing the mustang too will be a pile of rubble in no time if they had theses engines, even Toyota. I’ve had 3 late models and don’t have any issues, if you want a Honda get one, those rubber band cars will go a long time since they're never abused. Even the higher HP cars have almost no torque to shock the chassis, fit and finish could be better with the Mustang but for me I’m not taking a mic out to see I’m a 1/16 of an inch off on fit. JMO
RisingForce
New Member
- Nov 4, 2004
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I would say buy an 05, and put a supercharger in it,, problem solved!
get the new slick look of Mustang combined with the power of cobra,,,,
get the new slick look of Mustang combined with the power of cobra,,,,
I agree with what you're saying there, but I wouldn't call the older Mustangs junk, because cars should be judged in context with their time, not in context with cars more modern. They were pretty good for their time, far better than GM's F-platform (which isn't saying much). It's just that the SN95's time was up, big time. Also, a little trivia, the old tooling for the floor pan of the SN95 was over 25 years old, and WORN FLAT OUT. Assembly line workers I spoke with during a Rouge plant tour said that they were forced to sometimes hand-fit the floors to its surrounding chassis because of the tools had fallen so far out of tolerance. It's not so much that the new GTO and Charger forced Ford's hand. It's that the fox dna in the SN95 was flat-out dead from production wear, and they were faced with the fact that the old girl was cooked.
I also think that it's good advice to drive other cars, more expensive and less expensive, to get a perspective on how good things can be and should be. I was a Mustang-only blinders-wearing FANATIC when I was in high school. But I detailed cars for my income then, and wound up handling most of the high-end iron in my town. After picking up and delivering everything under the sun, from Porsches to Lambos to regular old Toyotas, you learn that there's one hell of alot more to a car than statistics, and you mature. When the SN95 was first introduced, I thought it was world-class. Today, I jump in one and it drives like a relic. Why is everybody so friggin defensive and in denial of progress? My standards and expectation increase along with the progress of auto manufacturers, and my expectations of how GOOD a car should be had passed the old Mustang by. After awhile, you get used to the power, and everything else that's poor about the car starts screaming at you and annoying you. Hell, forget the Cobra, I have a 506 h.p. '97 S351 Saleen, and I'm totally used to that. The power is awesome, but once you get used to it you just want more, and you start paying more attention to what the rest of the car is doing. Now when I drive it, I just grin and enjoy because it's a blast from the past, but it's a flippin dinosaur already, in just 8 short years. It can't hold a candle compared to any of the new stuff, except when you mash the pedal. And horsepower is never enough, when you get more, you just want more after that, unless you're a pansy and it starts frightening you LOL!! So, I'm walking the fence on this debate, as I remember what it was like when I was young and all I cared about was going as fast as possible for the least amount of money. But at that age, most can't afford a brand new V8 Mustang. So Ford really has to offer a car that has the youthful appeal of power and value, but that also satisfies the demands and expectations of their more experienced buyers.
I saw that, but was reluctant to open my own posts to scrutiny!! LOL. Yep, when you're smacking somebody's grammar, best proof-read your post 3 times! But my FAVORITE is when people call other people stupid by trying to use a fancy synonym for "stupid", and they mis-spell the word, like "ignourunt" or "idiat" and so-forth.. That sends me backward out of my chair every time!! Dumb people calling people dumb, it's irony of historic proportion....
CatmanJJ said:"contaction", isn't it contraction?
that is why i said 'great company'... amazing.
As for what RICKS wrote, I whole heartedly agree that the Mustang needed a change. I totally agree that the tooling was out of date and they needed to start from scratch. But like RICKS also eluded to, I DON'T agree that this means the old Mustang's are 'junk'. If you listened to some people here, you would think that the chassis bolts and lug nuts were falling off these cars as they drove down the highway. Waaaaaay far from the truth.
In reality, I expect my Cobra to hit 100k, no problem. I don't need it to last as long as an Accord because in reality who drives a 400+hp car to 100k anyway? You'll be on to the next one way before that. And no, it may not be as comfortable as the new Mustang but it rides VERY nice IMO, as good as I need a sports car to ride. I also have more chassis and suspension upgrades available to me than just about any other vehicle you can mention... all at bargain prices compared to a Vette or especially imports.
The Mustang has definitely evolved. No one is denying that. But its best to respect your elders.. especially when they are faster
Wow, I can't believe some of the posts in this thread. RICKS, your posts are right on the money and enjoyable to read. The same goes for alan64 and a few others.
You can't even compare these two cars. If you know anything about modern cars at all, you will realize that there is simply no comparison here. We should be happy that Ford has finally spent the money and caught us up with the rest of the automotive world finally, and put the fox4 out to pasture. Once the SVT variant is released, there won't be any reason at all to cling to this love for the '03-'04 Cobra. Anyone who doesn't see this really needs to go drive a few other cars like suggested by some here.
Now I'm not dogging the '03-'04 Cobra. I LOVE that car, and I would much rather have one over my '98 Cobra. But after owning five Mustangs built on the same tired chassis there was NO WAY Ford could fool me into buying another one, not even with that absolute gem of a motor, the 6-spd or IRS out back, improved seats, beautiful 10th anniversary wheels and improved fascias front and rear. Yes, Ford did an outstanding job with what they had to work with on both the Cobra and the Mach 1.
I probably wouldn't have purchased my '98 Cobra if at that time I had simply driven a few other cars. The first car I drove that really shocked me was a '99 M3 that a buddy of mine had. That eventually lead to me buying an '03 330i SP 6-spd last year. I had originally intended on buying a Z06 but just couldn't justify the car you get for the price, and decided to buy a new daily driver this go around and wait for the next Cobra to replace my '98.
Drive some other cars and get some needed perspective. Demand more for your hard-earned money. It's not just about the most hp.
You can't even compare these two cars. If you know anything about modern cars at all, you will realize that there is simply no comparison here. We should be happy that Ford has finally spent the money and caught us up with the rest of the automotive world finally, and put the fox4 out to pasture. Once the SVT variant is released, there won't be any reason at all to cling to this love for the '03-'04 Cobra. Anyone who doesn't see this really needs to go drive a few other cars like suggested by some here.
Now I'm not dogging the '03-'04 Cobra. I LOVE that car, and I would much rather have one over my '98 Cobra. But after owning five Mustangs built on the same tired chassis there was NO WAY Ford could fool me into buying another one, not even with that absolute gem of a motor, the 6-spd or IRS out back, improved seats, beautiful 10th anniversary wheels and improved fascias front and rear. Yes, Ford did an outstanding job with what they had to work with on both the Cobra and the Mach 1.
I probably wouldn't have purchased my '98 Cobra if at that time I had simply driven a few other cars. The first car I drove that really shocked me was a '99 M3 that a buddy of mine had. That eventually lead to me buying an '03 330i SP 6-spd last year. I had originally intended on buying a Z06 but just couldn't justify the car you get for the price, and decided to buy a new daily driver this go around and wait for the next Cobra to replace my '98.
Drive some other cars and get some needed perspective. Demand more for your hard-earned money. It's not just about the most hp.
RandyB said:
For about $300 you can add a pulley and tune to a 2003 Cobra, and it will smoke the Z06 that you couldn't justify for the price. There is not other vehicle being sold today that gives you the same value.
Like he said, demand more for your money guys, if you want to be competing with the big boys on the street.. your only shot is the Cobra. If your looking for a refined ride and retro look... go with the 2005.
http://dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=28
I agree that the cheap hp from minor Cobra upgrades is nice, but it still isn't anywhere close to the car that the z06 is, even if it will beat one in a straight line. The same goes with the '05 Mustang GT.
It's a 'you can't get there from here' type thing. The biggest problem I had with the Corvette was the interior and overall build quality. Other than that, the car is a great performer all around. The C6 probably closes the gap significantly on these little annoyances.
It's a 'you can't get there from here' type thing. The biggest problem I had with the Corvette was the interior and overall build quality. Other than that, the car is a great performer all around. The C6 probably closes the gap significantly on these little annoyances.
Sure are alot of fools in here, always jumping on the latest bandwagon, and trying to make every else feel inferior. First it was the F-bodies, and now it's even the former stangs. Few points I would mention:
The Fox body on the 94-2004 stangs is hardly the original Fox body. It is significantly more rigid for starters. The 2001 Cobra does .9 lateral G's, while the 1992 Mustang GT only got .82. Very few cars do in excess of .9 G's.
The twin cam 4.6's are still capable of way more RPM's, and almost all serious sports cars these days have twin cam engines.
No doubt the 2005 is more refined, but I think everyone is putting way to much into this. I love the 2005's myself, and will be getting one in a year or so, but they are not that big a leap like you all think.
The Fox body on the 94-2004 stangs is hardly the original Fox body. It is significantly more rigid for starters. The 2001 Cobra does .9 lateral G's, while the 1992 Mustang GT only got .82. Very few cars do in excess of .9 G's.
The twin cam 4.6's are still capable of way more RPM's, and almost all serious sports cars these days have twin cam engines.
No doubt the 2005 is more refined, but I think everyone is putting way to much into this. I love the 2005's myself, and will be getting one in a year or so, but they are not that big a leap like you all think.
you couldnt be more wrong
well,,, if you tried you couldnt be more wrong. the new body dates back , but the mechanicals are light years ahead of the old platflorm... its not that anyone is trying to make people feel bad,,, its that the new car has seen tremendous advancements. using the lincoln frame is a huge step forward, ,, i owned a mustang convertible, because i just felt like putting the top down one summer,,,, i couldnt wait to get rid of it,,, there is only one way to describe that car,,,, junk,, pure and simple.....interior was horrible, and boring,,,, the car rattled like crazy, parts came off in my hands,, and on and on,,,for someone who loved the old mustangs of the sixties,, it was really dissapointing.its not like the latest is the greatest,, its that the previous was so bad, that its nice to see a major improvement,, not just a cosmetic one either... im sure there will be first year bugs,,, and many complaints about the new one in time,, but it is a huge step forward in, quality that cant be denied,,,, in my opinion anyway....shadowland2000 said:
RandyB said:
Well I can't say many more times that I have no doubt that the 2005 Mustang is a surely a much more solid car and vastly refined. I think the big disconnect here is what your purpose for owning a muscle car is in the first place. Here is a great question that I think would highlight our differences:
Given the choice, which one would you take?
2004 Corvette C5 Z06 at $50k
2005 Corvette C6 at $50k
I personally would take the 2004 every time. If you looked at the Motor Trend article a few months back the base C6 still doesn't compare handling wise or performance wise with the Z06. So basically if you buy the C6 you might experience a much more refined and comfortable ride but you are not going to beat the C5 top version in just about any category. It's much lighter, has bigger brakes, more hp., race tuned suspension, etc. But I could understand why people would want the newest version of the vehicle as it is a much better platform to build from.. but in a sense that is the reason why I'm fine waiting for the next Cobra.
