synthetic vs. mineral oil

[Gearbanger 101]

Well, I'm afraid I'm with Jay on this one. Synthetics are as far as I’m concerned a waste of money for the most part. There is no significant documented proof that they’re any better than conventional mineral oils. Yes, in extreme temperature conditions, I could see a synthetic brand having an advantage over a dino oil, but otherwise, there is no justification for dropping $50.00 on an oil change on a daily driver, when you could have just as easily done it for less than half that price and achieved the same over all result. Improve horsepower, fuel economy, compression, etc, etc….give me a break. I’ll take the $2,000.00 I saved over the life of my vehicle that you guys spend on buying synthetic oil and spend it on something that will really improve performance, or put it towards the cost of a rebuild. The only ones, who make these outlandish claims, are the manufactures of the oil product themselves. I have yet to see any real world controlled testing that proves this “theory”. If dino oil is so inferior….how do you explain all of the 250-300+K engines out there, that have run on nothing but, they’re whole lives? As for the comment about synthetic oil not drying seals and gaskets…..try the exact opposite. Additives in synthetic oil break down the rubber and silicone properties every bit as much as conventional oils do, which over time causes them to turn to stone. Due to their lighter (thinner) properties they’re more prone to leak like a sieve…especially in older vehicles.

Nope, for my money it’s a decent brand name conventional oil, a good filter and regular oil changes.

 

[Blown04]

I heard somewhere that Synthetic blend oils werent really synthetic blend at all, but dino oil refined a couple more times. Anybody ever heard that before?

 

[Darkhorse845]

So I guess it would surprise you to know that synthetic oil actually frees up horsepower, provides better start-up protection and keeps the engine running cooler.
Synthetic oil, a good filter and scheduled oil changes are cheap insurance.

This man knows what he is talking about! Amen

 

[twogts4us]

Well, I'm afraid I'm with Jay on this one. There is no justification for dropping $50.00 on an oil change on a daily driver, when you could have just as easily done it for less than half that price and achieved the same over all result.

If you shop around, you can do it for much less than $50.00.

The only ones, who make these outlandish claims, are the manufactures of the oil product themselves. I have yet to see any real world controlled testing that proves this “theory”.

They are not outlandish claims, they are realistic. It's not theory, it's proven fact. Heck, just a couple weeks ago, on the Spike TV cable show, "TDC", they did real world testing (of Royal Purple) on a motorcycle and dropped the operating temp an average of 20 degrees and dyno'd an additional 8 RWHP. There are tests everywhere...you just have to look.

If dino oil is so inferior….how do you explain all of the 250-300+K engines out there, that have run on nothing but, they’re whole lives?

How is this explained? Simple - likely, they were decent engines that were treated well and had regular oil changes. I wouldn't say conventional oil is so inferior, just inferior to a quality, full synthetic oil. There is nothing wrong with quality conventional oil - it's just that there are better options. For alot of us, these better options are cheap insurance. Many of us admittedly drive our cars hard. With your mods, I'm really surprised you wouldn't be in favor of better protection for your investment.

Due to their lighter (thinner) properties they’re more prone to leak like a sieve…especially in older vehicles.

Pure myth. Viscosity is viscosity.
What can happen is, after years and years of use of conventional oil, there is considerable buildup of sludge, gum, varnish & carbon deposits.

Nope, for my money it’s a decent brand name conventional oil, a good filter and regular oil changes.

Regular oil changes is the best protection, but again, I am surprised that you don't see the advantage of using a superior product, especially with you mods. This isn't snake oil.

 

[bdcardinal]

ya, i change my own oil and use synthetic and its nowhere near $50. its $23 for a 6 pack of mobil 1 at costco and 2.97 for the filter at walmart. every 6th oil change costs just the filter cause i only use 5 quarts. i change the oil at 5k miles, everything is good, car runs great.

 

[Jay99]

http://www.oilsandlube.com/synthetic_motor_oil_gets_all_new.htm

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html

all I did was a search through google full sythetic vs conventional and learned more about all oils then i ever wanted to know. besides i never said what was best just was pointing out that if anything frequent oil changes mean the most. I dont know about z06's or cobras, but i know vipers come with synthetic and is mandated for warranty.

I wish i could find the article that covered the disaster in the 70's of the first release of full synthetics that is still a dark cloud over them today from the people who dealt with them then. but again that was the 70's - much engineering has been done since.

but then again as gearbanger put it, the money saved by not buying it and say not getting an extra 30-40k miles out of the motor is a lot of money to not have toward a new motor so in the end was it really worth it?

as long as your happy with whatever avenue you take is what really matters.

 

[UVBNHAD]

Amsoil, 7500 miles between changes, enough said.

 

[Go HoTO!]

Guys, I bring to this thread some experience...well actually that of a friend who is a senior manager for a very large company that manufactures and designs oil additives for just about every oil company on the planet.

About 10 years ago an extensive study was performed in NYC on a large number of city cabs.

Motors were torn apart before and after the test and tollerances were measured each time. Synthetics, blends, and mineral oils were tested on the cars and various change intervals were used. These vehicles are driven under very harsh conditions.

In some cases oil was left in for 60k miles on some of the cars w/o an oil change.

Results:

1 - It's more important to use the correct grade of oil than selecting the type of oil (ie mineral vs synthetic). Many folks select the wrong grade or weight.

2 - Engine degradation was surprizingly low even on the cars that kept oil for the extent of the test. There was no depreciable advantage with the synthetic over the mineral oil.

3 - Changing the oil every 3,000 miles proved to be a total waste of money. There was not only ZERO benefit, BUT the drivers were placing the cars at greater risk because each time you drain the oil, you run the risk of making a misstake such as putting the wrong oil back in, not putting the plug in properly, or creating some other type of exposure.

4 - Synthetic oils, while more expensive, proved to last about twice as long as mineral oil. In other words, the engine wear by changing oil every 12,000 miles with synthetic is about the same as changing mineral oil at 6,000 miles.

5 - If I recall, the study determined that oil changes be performed every 5-6k miles for mineral oil and 10 - 12k miles for synthetic.

I run synthetic oil (Mobil 1) in both of my personal vehicles and I change it about every 7,500 miles in my car that is under warrenty and twice a year in the Mustang whether it needs it or not. My company car gets mineral oil about every 8k - 10k miles depending on my mood.

Guys just because it is a Mustang, don't think it has some sort of magical power that requires it to have new oil all the time.

 

[xseler8]

Motorcraft 5-30 full syn 02Procharged GT 5sd conv

 

[twogts4us]

Guys just because it is a Mustang, don't think it has some sort of magical power that requires it to have new oil all the time.

"Just a motorcycle, Mr C.? Just a motorcycle? And I suppose your mother was just a mother?" Arthur Fonzarelli

 

[Go HoTO!]

"Just a motorcycle, Mr C.? Just a motorcycle? And I suppose your mother was just a mother?" Arthur Fonzarelli

That was pretty good!

 

[CanadaStang]

.

 

[2000GTnoExtras]

I've heard full synthetic can go 50k miles between oil changes (not joking), just need to change the filter 3-5k. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, every time I drain my synthetic oil at 5K it looks brand new.

Just changed a filter and made sure my level was cool, I think i'll run this oil for 15K miles, in terms of cost vs. benefit, any good reason not to run your synthetic oil 4-5 times as long as your dino oil? Seems to be the same price if you do it that way.

 

[Go HoTO!]

I've heard full synthetic can go 50k miles between oil changes (not joking), just need to change the filter 3-5k. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, every time I drain my synthetic oil at 5K it looks brand new.

Just changed a filter and made sure my level was cool, I think i'll run this oil for 15K miles, in terms of cost vs. benefit, any good reason not to run your synthetic oil 4-5 times as long as your dino oil? Seems to be the same price if you do it that way.

If you have a warrenty, don't run it longer than what the warrenty states as a recoomended interval which is usually 7500 miles.

I think 10k is certainly safe with synthetic. One way to know how your oil is doing is to measure the pH. It will begin to drop once it starts to break down. As the pH drops, the oil looses some of it's properties and becomes on the corrosive side.

How you use the car will affect oil life such as load and ambient temps.

 

[Joes95GT]

I'm gonna go against the grain on this one...

If you shop around, you can do it for much less than $50.00.

Agreed...

They are not outlandish claims, they are realistic. It's not theory, it's proven fact. Heck, just a couple weeks ago, on the Spike TV cable show, "TDC", they did real world testing (of Royal Purple) on a motorcycle and dropped the operating temp an average of 20 degrees and dyno'd an additional 8 RWHP. There are tests everywhere...you just have to look.

Please don't tell me that you actually put faith in dyno comparisons comparing things like oil. Remember, these people have sponsers and the opportunity to edit tapped footage. Who knows if this guy tuned up the motor in the process of changing the oil. Too many variables.

There is nothing wrong with quality conventional oil - it's just that there are better options.

I can agree with this - to an extent.

Pure myth. Viscosity is viscosity.
What can happen is, after years and years of use of conventional oil, there is considerable buildup of sludge, gum, varnish & carbon deposits.

Definitely isn't a myth. It's a fact that synthetics get past leaky seals because their flow properties are too good. Is this fact made into a much bigger deal and exaggerated into some horrible terrible thing? Probably so. Facts are facts though. I can draw the line.

For those who claim "better start up protection," riddle me this: My car sits in a climate controlled 70* garage, under a cover. I drive it about once every few months while I'm away at school. In between driving it each time, all the oil has drained from the top end of the motor down back into the pan.

Are you telling me that synthetic has better start up properties because it'll get sucked up into the pump and squirted all around the motor faster? That would be my definition of start up protection.

I personally do not use synthetic oil. I change my oil seasonally and do not see the cost justified in driving 300 miles in between oil changes.

Be careful about jumping down someones throat when they make statements for or against synthetic oil. They probably make them because it's their opinion and what's best for them. People who claim "better" start up protection probably don't know what the hell they're talking about. They just blab some chit off because that's what they've read.

Another thing - I have torn apart several old motors (I.E. 60's and 70's vintage) all of which I assume ran conventional oil. I can say with positivity that in each of them, there was no "sludge" build up or other claimed "side effects" of conventional oil. Over time, conventional oils will sludge up as they are run further past the oil change interval, yes. However, as some people make it out to be, conventional oils do not just one day decide - "hmm, time to sludge up now!"

Sorry for the novel. I hope I didn't piss anyone off.

Joe

 

[Seraphitia102]

My old Toyota Previa - Synthetic oil user (10W-30 Mobil 1), 10 years, never broke down once.

My new 2001 Mustang GT - Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic oil user, am hoping to get at least 10 years no problems

 

[twogts4us]

It's a fact that synthetics get past leaky seals because their flow properties are too good. Is this fact made into a much bigger deal and exaggerated into some horrible terrible thing? Probably so. Facts are facts though. I can draw the line.

Myth...pure myth. I'll take this too good, too slippery oil anytime. Look, if your motor is falling apart or well worn and prone to leaks, then yes, you may have problems with synthetics.

"better start up protection" - People who claim "better" start up protection probably don't know what the hell they're talking about. They just blab some chit off because that's what they've read. Are you telling me that synthetic has better start up properties because it'll get sucked up into the pump and squirted all around the motor faster? That would be my definition of start up protection.

Is that really your idea of what "better startup protection" is? And you say other people don't know what the hell they're talking about?

 

[Joes95GT]

Myth...pure myth. I'll take this too good, too slippery oil anytime. Look, if your motor is falling apart or well worn and prone to leaks, then yes, you may have problems with synthetics.

My point exactly.

Is that really your idea of what "better startup protection" is? And you say other people don't know what the hell they're talking about?

LOL.

We'll re-read my post again...

For those who claim "better start up protection," riddle me this: My car sits in a climate controlled 70* garage, under a cover. I drive it about once every few months while I'm away at school. In between driving it each time, all the oil has drained from the top end of the motor down back into the pan.

Are you telling me that synthetic has better start up properties because it'll get sucked up into the pump and squirted all around the motor faster? That would be my definition of start up protection.

The better start up protection that synthetics offer, lie in the fact that they flow much better at colder temperatures than conventional oil does. What I'm saying is that if all the oil is down in the bottom of my oil pan, and at a relatively high start-up temperature, the contention of "better start up protection" is no longer viable.

If you want "the best" start up protection, prime your oil pump.

Additionally, I hear/read people make comments about synthetics contributing to the longevity of motors. Remember the following: 1) No two motors are the same. 2) You will probably trade your car in before it's got any significant amount of miles on it 150k+. 3) You will more than likely blow-up/hurt your motor from something you did mechanically (especially high performance work) before it would fail because the oil broke down/failed/got too hot/properties/etc.

Joe

 

[twogts4us]

My car sits in a climate controlled 70* garage, under a cover. I drive it about once every few months while I'm away at school. In between driving it each time, all the oil has drained from the top end of the motor down back into the pan.
"better start up protection" - People who claim "better" start up protection probably don't know what the hell they're talking about. They just blab some chit off because that's what they've read. Are you telling me that synthetic has better start up properties because it'll get sucked up into the pump and squirted all around the motor faster? That would be my definition of start up protection.

What you are talking about is 'storage protection'. For the masses, the rest of us, we're looking for daily start-up protection. See below - yep, it's a cut'n'paste from AMSOIL's website...

Sixty percent of all engine wear occurs at startup. AMSOIL synthetic oils use high polarity base stocks and special anti-wear agents that form a thin film that clings to engine parts, preventing metal to metal contact.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

LOL....do you think that that "thin" barrier of so called protection that Amsoil provides does all that much to protect an engine from initial start up? Metal on metal is stil metal on metal.

I've got a quote for you too that was also a cut and paste. It's from Websters Dictionary.

"gullible"

\Gul"li*ble\, a. Easily gulled; that may be duped. -- Gul\"li*bii`i*ty, n. --Burke.

adj 1: naive and easily deceived or tricked; "at that early age she had been gullible and in love" [syn: fleeceable, green] 2: easily tricked because of being too trusting; "gullible tourists taken in by the shell game