Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

[thehemi]

It will likely cost more to operate the LS2 than the 4.6L SOHC based on using the recommended fuel and driving the same number of hours in similar conditions.

You also get an additional 100-hp and 80-ft/lb of torque.
To some people... the added fuel costs might be worth it.

 

[corey796]

I miss the days when the debate was Mustang vs. Camaro/Firebird. Now all the GM guys have to brag about is a Grand Prix on steriods.

ouch

 

[TRAMS_AM]

I registered to reply to this, but am not here to troll.

Both sides of this debate have good points, but I feel that I must add a few:

Us GTO owners often feel that our car is over scrutinized by almost everyone, enthusiasts and the general public alike. It’s more than understandable that we get defensive at times, even though the GTO is an excellent car, and easily earns its name (what makes a car a GTO, rear-drive performance and a V8, or stripes and Ram Air?)

While some people here on Stangnet feel that there is a massive influx of GM goons, there have been numerous unprovoked attacks on the GTO on our forums, and many of them were Mustang owners (so this is where many become leery of threads like this, which is one of the more civil ones I’ve seen). We have a number of great members who are Mustang owners also, though, who can objectively discuss and compare cars and understand that there are several factors that are relevant when gauging a car’s worth. People like that are welcome anytime on our boards, regardless of their preferred mode of transportation.

The vast majority of GTO owners aren’t stuck up elitists, either. The same has been said of Corvette and Cobra fans as well, but we know this isn’t true. We just get tired of having our car universally hated when in fact it’s a wonderful machine that doesn’t deserve the incredible amount of negative attention it’s received.

A little background on why I chose this “Grand Prix on steroids” (which had no problems eviscerating my friend's '01 Lightning ):

I traded my 2000 Trans Am for the GTO and haven’t regretted it since. Almost everything the T/A did the Goat does better, and the things it lacks in are so minor that they are easily outweighed by the positives. I find it’s styling to be subtle and graceful, and definitely draws less attention than either of my T/A’s did (which is a huge plus when you’re hauling posterior). I don’t hate Mustangs or Fords, it’s just that I happened to fall for the F-body and the LS1.

A few points of interest about the GTO and it’s lineage:

The ’05 GTO’s MSRP is expected to be $33,690 for the manual, and $34,295 for the auto. For your money you get a car with as much power as the ’03-’04 Cobra, a plush (but not flashy) interior, and no squeaks or rattles, which was a big reason I couldn’t take my T/A anymore. While definitely more money than a ’05 GT, I wouldn’t think twice about dropping the extra cash.

The GTO is indeed based on the Commodore, which is a Bathurst winning car year after year. It seems to have been a smart decision on Holden’s part, though, as the many rebadgings of the Monaro are praised by the international press (Top Gear even picked the Vauxhall Monaro VXR, which is a HSV GTO, over a Jaguar. These guys hated the C6 and belittled the ’05 Mustang, by the way. Visit www.hsv.com.au and check out the great hi-po stuff that the Aussies whip up).

As far as the C&D article, we should all be able to agree that the numbers they got out of their GTO are lower than expected. 400hp should do more damage than 13.3, especially when ‘04’s are running lower than that.

Route666 - We have several Holden owners on our GTO board and they're all very polite. Everyone at LS1.com.au is also very respectful and well spoken. It could just be that the ones you remember are the yahoos (I do believe your country coined that term, no?)

It all comes down to what you like. I really wish the GM/Ford divide wasn’t so wide, though. Us rear-drive domestic V8 guys should stick together, there’re EVO VIII’s and STi’s out there that need our attention .

Thanks for the airtime and sorry for the verbose nature of this post.

 

[TxFrog1999]

Blah Blah Blah... until we have an 05 GT with an SC under the hood and other go-fast parts equalling the 5K difference in sticker price race a GTO we'll just have to go by C&D's data and crown the Mustang the winner.

 

[fivepointNO]

In the article, didn't the Mustang win by one point and got a large number of those "points" for the 5000 dollar price gap? I didn't read the article but a buddy of mine was telling me about it. If so, that would hardly count as being that much better than the 05 GTO as some of you are proclaiming.

edit: Just heard more about the article; the Mustang did indeed win by one point and it got seven points for the "gotta have it" catagory. The question begs to be asked was this catagory added before or after the test was done and the numbers were tallied up. Seems sort of fishy to me
-Todd

The win came via overall points. Both cars got "gotta have it" points, but the MustangGT got more of them, as it was the more preferred car in their testing. Apparently all the testers agreed on this. That really does make a statement.

On the whole, we're not proclaiming the GT as a much better car. But you do get more for your money in most peoples opinion, and all those in the article. You can bet the category existed before the points were added. If they were truly looking for a way to give the Mustang a win, they'd simply have lowered a number elsewhere for the GTO. It seems all to obvious to me, there's no reason whatsoever to add a category when you control all the numbers to begin with.

 

[fivepointNO]

You mean an IRS and better grade interior bits

Where do you people come up with the "better grade interior" comments? Most of you haven't even glanced at the Mustangs interior, and are merely going by what other GTO owners say. The GTO has a very nice interior, but so does the Mustang. There's little difference in the actual materials used for both and GM is "light years" away from being known to have sturdy interiors, even if they look nice.

I honestly would like for just anyone to point out how they know the GTO's interior is even as good, much less better than that of the MustangGT. Knowing how GM had problems for years makes me wonder. That's not even addressing the creeks and rattles I've been reading about in the GTO.

 

[TxFrog1999]

Uh, the Mustang has a nicer interior and I don't think an IRS would help win in acceleration, besides the stang already spanks the Goat in the only areas where an IRS would help.

 

[Omegalock]

I registered to reply to this, but am not here to troll.

Both sides of this debate have good points, but I feel that I must add a few:

Us GTO owners often feel that our car is over scrutinized by almost everyone, enthusiasts and the general public alike. It’s more than understandable that we get defensive at times, even though the GTO is an excellent car, and easily earns its name (what makes a car a GTO, rear-drive performance and a V8, or stripes and Ram Air?)

While some people here on Stangnet feel that there is a massive influx of GM goons, there have been numerous unprovoked attacks on the GTO on our forums, and many of them were Mustang owners (so this is where many become leery of threads like this, which is one of the more civil ones I’ve seen). We have a number of great members who are Mustang owners also, though, who can objectively discuss and compare cars and understand that there are several factors that are relevant when gauging a car’s worth. People like that are welcome anytime on our boards, regardless of their preferred mode of transportation.

Well the problem becomes instead of defending the car these "nice people" decide to become the very thing they detest and start trolling other forums. I don't think anybody would have a problem with the GTO owners being over here IF they were able to comport themselves with some modicum of respectfulness. You can "defend" your car all you want but the second you start ranging out to "look for a fight" and not just provide objective information then you are a troll and should be treated as such. I've seen the trollish threads on ls1gto.com from Mustang owners and they are ridiculous but I don't understand how a person can see a troll screwing up their site and then they decide the best way to respond to this is go off and be a bigger troll on another board. This doesn't solve the problem it compounds it as someone from over here will start going over to say newagegto and start trolling. Then someone from there will go over to say modulardepot and start trolling so on and so forth until nobody is safe from the idiots.

The vast majority of GTO owners aren’t stuck up elitists, either. The same has been said of Corvette and Cobra fans as well, but we know this isn’t true. We just get tired of having our car universally hated when in fact it’s a wonderful machine that doesn’t deserve the incredible amount of negative attention it’s received.

I'll lay it out for you as cut and dry as I can possibly put it. If you want people to respect your opinion you need to respect theirs. I respect the GTO but I don't like the price and I don't like the looks. Simply put. If I had 32k to spend on a car it wouldn't be on that GTO. If you like the car fine but I and others may not like it. But the proper response to people who DON'T like the car isn't to belittle the car THEY like as some kind of infantile tit for tat game where you have to "get back" at the people who have some how slighted you.

I suppose in closing it's not what you say in defense of your car it's how you say it. And coming onto another board and acting in such a child like manner like some of your compatriots have is just bad form old bean.

 

[Route666]

The GTO is indeed based on the Commodore, which is a Bathurst winning car year after year.

The V8 supercars are nothing like the production cars. They are $200k Rollcages, suspensions and engines with car bodies welded back around them. That's actually how they make them, they cut a body up, build a cage in, and weld the body back together around it. The engines are limited to 5 litres ffs. Holden doesn't even make five litre production cars anymore, in fact neither does Ford, especially 650+hp five litres... Plus there's that lovely fact that both the Ford and Holden teams use the good old Ford nine inch diff...

It could just be that the ones you remember are the yahoos (I do believe your country coined that term, no?)

That's exactly right, and I don't remember seeing any Ford drivers yahooing...

 

[ruffy]

I like the picture of the GTO with the spoiler kit and the hood scoops. If they built that I'm sure it would give Mustang a run for the money in sales. It would be nice to see the Camaro and Firebird come back. This time GM needs to keep the price in the 25k range and let the owners jazz them up if they decide to do so.


Well I hate to admit it but my '05 is costing me 32,731. Thats FULLY loaded, shipping to Germany, and all those other BS charges they hose you for. Like 276.00 Customer Delivery Show Vehicle. I ordered it, why should I pay 276 for this guy to show my car? Show it to who?
Don't answer that.

 

[Fast GTO]

My car is purrtier
My car runs lower grade gas
My car is cheaper
I can spend $6,000 and make it as fast as you

What ricer doesn't this sound like?

 

[TxFrog1999]

Fast GTO, you really need to gain some perspective. You are attempting to compare a $28,000 car to a $34,000 car both with different HP ratings. The Mustang already out handles the GTO, and with an SC you can bet it would whip it in the 1/4 mile as well. Truth hurts, buyers remorse is a bit*h, get over yourself.

 

[TxFrog1999]

Oh and your car is ugly, will always be ugly and no amount of body work or plastic GM parts will make it worthy of its namesake.

 

[TRAMS_AM]

I suppose in closing it's not what you say in defense of your car it's how you say it. And coming onto another board and acting in such a child like manner like some of your compatriots have is just bad form old bean.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, good post.

Most of my ‘compatriots’, as you put it, are good people (as I’m sure yours are). We just get to see the ugly sides of each-other more often, huh?

Personally, I don’t get excited over arguments of opinion. As you stated, it’s everyone’s right to like and dislike what they choose. It’s the unbridled contempt for the GTO that raises my interest. People seem to just love to hate it, and entirely for aesthetic reasons. Since I happen to think it looks great and I love to have a sleeper, it’s perfect.

TxFrog1999 & fivepointNO – It’s not like Ford has a reputation for beautiful interiors, either. I’ve spent some time with a variety of GM and Ford interiors, and neither would give me an impression of quality. The ’05 Mustang may have changed this, and the ’04 GTO is definitely the star GM interior, at least stateside. The Aussies have fancier, more European tastes and US GM materials wouldn’t cut it over there. Holden’s stuff is very different from what GM offers here, and while I’ll reserve judgment about the ‘Stang’s interior until I’ve seen it in person, I suggest you do the same for the GTO.

Route666 - You're right about the V8 Supercar Series cars not being too stock anymore (although it's not as drastic a departure as stock cars are here). I suppose a better example would be the Rhys Millen drift GTO, the Horizon Grand Am GTO, or the Autosport Development Speed Challenge car, all of which remain largely stock (gutted, of course, and with some suspension and engine modifications). Just saying that this haphazard sedan-based car is a great platform for us yahoos to haul around in. And who on earth doesn’t use a 9” ? Well, the AD Speed Challenge car uses a ‘Vette rear, but aside from them…

 

[01'TRUE BLUE GT]

Some of you get all worked-up over nothing. I could care less about the GTO and C&D ... they both suck in my book. Who cares what C&D says anyway ... did you guys forget about their bs review of the Mach I when it came out???

 

[dozlert]

V-8 Warriors,

Have any of you thought about possible reasons why C & D rated their cars like that? They will sell one of those mags to every Mustang GT owner which is much higher numbers than the GTO owners. Best policy...just be happy with your car, after all, you are the only one that car has to satisfy. I like the looks of the exterior GT, but I believe the GTO has the quality interior and engine. If I had to buy a Ford I would like the Ford GT 350s...nice...or a 66 GTO, wow! Anyhow, just appreciate what you have and take care of it.

 

[Bob Cosby]

Much of any comparison between two cars is going to be subjective. In fact, virtually everything except raw, measureable numbers are subjective - and even those raw numbers are subject to subjective interpretation.

While it is possible that C&D's staff decided that they'd let the Mustang "win" in a bid to increase magazine sales, is it not just as possible that they really did prefer the GT over the GTO, when everything was said and done? Having read the relavent posts on LS1GTO.com and newagegto.com, I know its a stretch for some of you to believe it possible for a sane person to pick a Mustang over a Goat, but it does happen - and it doesn't make that person any dumber or poorer than you - just different.

I do get a kick out of these conspiracy theories though....right out of the Moveon.org playbook (that one's for you, Gloveperson ).

 

[Black2001GT]

Nobody is debating the appeal to the masses. And it wasnt reversed. So... Go by the facts and it does win. I really dont want to be like everyone else. Driving a car that you see at every stop light. The GTO is a niche car. However, I do prefer the styling of the 05 GT.
But I dont buy based on looks. Performance first, comfort second, looks third. Maybe thats why I like the GTO. I am in that niche.
If you could take the shell of the 05 GT and drop the interior and the drivetrain from the GTO into it, then that would be an incredible car.
I believe though that is what we will be seeing with the 07 camaro. A sweet looking, powerful car that has broad appeal and still waxes the stang...

I thought you were not going to post anymore.

 

[TAP4636]

I registered to reply to this, but am not here to troll.

Both sides of this debate have good points, but I feel that I must add a few:

Us GTO owners often feel that our car is over scrutinized by almost everyone, enthusiasts and the general public alike. It’s more than understandable that we get defensive at times, even though the GTO is an excellent car, and easily earns its name (what makes a car a GTO, rear-drive performance and a V8, or stripes and Ram Air?)

While some people here on Stangnet feel that there is a massive influx of GM goons, there have been numerous unprovoked attacks on the GTO on our forums, and many of them were Mustang owners (so this is where many become leery of threads like this, which is one of the more civil ones I’ve seen). We have a number of great members who are Mustang owners also, though, who can objectively discuss and compare cars and understand that there are several factors that are relevant when gauging a car’s worth. People like that are welcome anytime on our boards, regardless of their preferred mode of transportation.

The vast majority of GTO owners aren’t stuck up elitists, either. The same has been said of Corvette and Cobra fans as well, but we know this isn’t true. We just get tired of having our car universally hated when in fact it’s a wonderful machine that doesn’t deserve the incredible amount of negative attention it’s received.

A little background on why I chose this “Grand Prix on steroids” (which had no problems eviscerating my friend's '01 Lightning ):

I traded my 2000 Trans Am for the GTO and haven’t regretted it since. Almost everything the T/A did the Goat does better, and the things it lacks in are so minor that they are easily outweighed by the positives. I find it’s styling to be subtle and graceful, and definitely draws less attention than either of my T/A’s did (which is a huge plus when you’re hauling posterior). I don’t hate Mustangs or Fords, it’s just that I happened to fall for the F-body and the LS1.

A few points of interest about the GTO and it’s lineage:

The ’05 GTO’s MSRP is expected to be $33,690 for the manual, and $34,295 for the auto. For your money you get a car with as much power as the ’03-’04 Cobra, a plush (but not flashy) interior, and no squeaks or rattles, which was a big reason I couldn’t take my T/A anymore. While definitely more money than a ’05 GT, I wouldn’t think twice about dropping the extra cash.

The GTO is indeed based on the Commodore, which is a Bathurst winning car year after year. It seems to have been a smart decision on Holden’s part, though, as the many rebadgings of the Monaro are praised by the international press (Top Gear even picked the Vauxhall Monaro VXR, which is a HSV GTO, over a Jaguar. These guys hated the C6 and belittled the ’05 Mustang, by the way. Visit www.hsv.com.au and check out the great hi-po stuff that the Aussies whip up).

As far as the C&D article, we should all be able to agree that the numbers they got out of their GTO are lower than expected. 400hp should do more damage than 13.3, especially when ‘04’s are running lower than that.

Route666 - We have several Holden owners on our GTO board and they're all very polite. Everyone at LS1.com.au is also very respectful and well spoken. It could just be that the ones you remember are the yahoos (I do believe your country coined that term, no?)

It all comes down to what you like. I really wish the GM/Ford divide wasn’t so wide, though. Us rear-drive domestic V8 guys should stick together, there’re EVO VIII’s and STi’s out there that need our attention .

Thanks for the airtime and sorry for the verbose nature of this post.

A very well thought, intelligent post. Thanks for that. Hope you stick around.

 

[TomServo92]

I still am trying to figure out what "gotta have it" means though. That is a very subjective catagory in anyone's opinion.

Every C&D comparo is subjective. Why do think BMW almost always wins even when the other cars out-perform them? The C&D writers and testers are offering their opinion of which car is more desirable apart from the performance numbers. It's the intangible part of any comparison.