Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

[pinski]

I did show respect for the Mustang but then I got tired of the **** talking at this place. The bottom line is that I realize the Mustang is not for me. Maybe if I was a 17 year old highschool kid looking for cheap wheels, but not now.

Then why are you here? If you stir up sh1t like you have, expect this as a result! Not that complicated.

If I went over to LS1.com and started talking about how fantastic the Mustang is, and how it put the F-bodies out of their misery, do you think I would be well-received? Hell no. If you want to stay here and learn, fine. If not, GO AWAY!

Btw, I'm always up for a quick engine comparo:

Ford
4.6L 2v N/A
HP - 260
HP/Liter - 56.5

4.6L 3v N/A
HP - 300
HP/Liter - 65.2

4.6L 4v N/A
HP - 320
HP/Liter - 69.6

4.6L 4v FI
HP - 390
HP/Liter - 84.8

vs. GM

5.7L LS1
HP - 350
HP/Liter - 61.4
*oopsie, the 4.6L 3v is better!

5.7L LS6
HP - 405
HP/Liter - 71.1
*oh noes, a teeny 4.6L with a blower stomps it!

6.0L LS2
HP - 400
HP/Liter - 66.7
*still not as good as the 4.6L 4v NA motor Ford stopped using after the 2001 Cobra

7.0L LS7
HP - 500
HP/Liter - 71.4
*barely better than the LS6, still way behind the current Cobra, and will be even FURTHER behind the next-gen Cobra.


The point: Ford does more with less, if the mighty LS1 was only 4.6 liters, it would only make 282.4hp, not even as good as the 2005 Mustang GT.

 

[max2000jp]

The LS2 is lighter, gets better gas mileage, costs less to make and makes 100 more HP. That is what makes it special.

I have never seen any published numbers of the LS2 vs 4.6L 3V. Also, how do you know how much it costs to make either either, do you have acess to the manufacturing costs associated with either engine? As for making more power, the 4.6 doesn't have the displacement. The LS2 gets good gas mileage because on gearing. The fact of the matter is that the 4.6L 3V is more advanced technologically. The LS2 lacks multivalve heads and VVT.

 

[Doc GTO]

The LS1 and LS2s do come with forged internals and 6 bolt mains! They may not be as advanced as the new 4.6 but they are built like brick $hit houses. That's why you can spin the hell out of them with modded heads and a fat cam!

 

[pinski]

The LS1 and LS2s do come with forged internals and 6 bolt mains! They may not be as advanced as the new 4.6 but they are built like brick $hit houses. That's why you can spin the hell out of them with modded heads and a fat cam!

Not calling bs, Doc, but if the LS motors have forged internals, why aren't more folks going the blower route? I realize they run a high compression stock, but that can be fixed with some dished pistons, drop it down to 9.0 or so and then stick a blower on there.

I'm by no means an expert on them, but I guess H/C/I might be a little more tried and true, and that's why more folks have gone that way. I've seen a few vids of blown Z06's and they're just nasty.

Nobody here is really panning the LS motors, hell, I'm envious. But Ford's motors don't suck, they're just trying to do more with less. The upcoming Hurricane motors should suffice for the need for displacement I think, hopefully having close to the same power as the big motors from Chebby.

 

[tistan2]

You want to talk about biased? How about the Car and Driver test between the 03 cobra and the gto? The 03 cobra walked all over the gto and they still gave the 1st choice to the gto. They based this on the newer interior styling and comfort. I am not sure which mag it was, but they tested the 03 cobra up against the vette and the vette won. The only problem with the test is that they put a convertible cobra against a covertible vette. The covertible vette, being a full framed car already, does not suffer from the added weight and chassy flex of a convertible subframed car. I have yet to see a mag test a hardtop cobra against a hard top vette. For the most part R&T, Motortrend, and C&D all lean towards chevy. This months R&T test the new corvette against a carrera s. Being way underpowered the carrera beat the corvette in almost every performance and comfort category, yet the carrera lost because of the price difference. To say the least I was very suprised that they let the mustang win that one. With the performance numbers the gto put up I would have picked it to win.

 

[Jon Do]

"I have never seen any published numbers of the LS2 vs 4.6L 3V. Also, how do you know how much it costs to make either either, do you have acess to the manufacturing costs associated with either engine?"

Well, the general rule is that pushrods cost less to make because of fewer moving parts. But you are right in that I do not know the specific costs involved.

If HP/Liter is so important, why not get a RX-8 with a 1.3L rotary since that is like 180 HP/liter? By the same logic that a 300 HP 4.6L engine in a Mustang is better than a 400 HP LS1 engine, the RX-8 engine destroys them both. Of course the RX-8 is slowest to 60 and gets the worst mileage whereas the LS2 is the quickest, and gets the best mileage.


I really do not like that HP/Liter argument. I want a car with big displacement. The more cubic inches, the higher the performance sealing.

Also, calling the LS2 low tech is like calling the Hemi low tech--these engines came out in the 2000s with brand new technologies. Like, for example, displacement on demand. If you were to compare them to pushrod engines in the 70s, they would be better in power, weight, fuel efficiency, NVH, etc. etc. etc.

 

[mystein]

Ford puts forged internals in where they're needed...
'03/'04 Cobras: 4.6L 4v SuperCharged...Forged Crank, Rods and Pistons
'03/'04 Mach I: 4.6L 4v Naturally Aspirated...Forged Crank

 

[GTP2GTO]

pinski, you stated this I believe.

A better contender against the GTO would be the Mustang Cobra. They're both "exclusive" (one due to production numbers, one due to sales figures, you can figure that out) and both have similar horsepower ratings, instead of one having 33% more than the other They're also both priced over $30k.

Read the July/ 04 Road and Track and see which car won the comparo test.
Better bring a crying towel.

What does it all mean when magazines test cars, absolutely nothing.

I could be wrong, but werent they comparing the 04GTO vs th 04 Cobra. I believe Pinski was probably speaking about the 05 GTO. Since the title of this thread is dealing with the 05...

 

[toyotatom]

gtp2gto, you didn't turn me into the thread police for mentioning 04s on an 05 thread did you? Basically I mentioned that review to show how rediculas and meaningless mag reviews can be. In both cases the dominating car lost the review.

 

[GTP2GTO]

gtp2gto, you didn't turn me into the thread police for mentioning 04s on an 05 thread did you? Basically I mentioned that review to show how rediculas and meaningless mag reviews can be. In both cases the dominating car lost the review.

Sorry, I misinterpreted your point....

 

[Bob Cosby]

The LS1 and LS2s do come with forged internals and 6 bolt mains! They may not be as advanced as the new 4.6 but they are built like brick $hit houses. That's why you can spin the hell out of them with modded heads and a fat cam!

The LSx engines use hyperpathetic pistons, much like the non-blown 4.6 units. They are great for N/A stuff, but do not hold up well under extended periods of high cylinder pressures - most especially with detonation. In other words, long term reliability becomes a major issue with boost.

Beyond that, the LSx series motors are very stout and certainly very powerful.