Going full synthetic? huh

[91mini]

Please bare with me fellas as this is my first brand new car and first real car (car with a V-8).

Anyway to the question at hand. I want to go full synthetic and was thinking of going with Mobil as my oil. I have done an oil change at 800 miles and used Motorcraft premium synthetic blend. I am currently at 2200 miles and want to do a change at 3000 miles. I drive 100+ miles round trip to work 5 days a week (mostly interstate) and want the engine to have a long and strong life. My questions are:

1. What would be the benifits of me personally going to a full sythetic (if any)?

2. Do I have to use a different filter then the standard Fram or (insert generic brand here)?

3. How long between oil changes is ideal for a engine running on full synthetic?

4. What brand do you recommend?

Sorry for the novel and thanks in advance for your help.

 

[ExCon]

The most important aspect is the filter itself. I use only the Amsoil filter since I am familiar with Amsoil from the Porsche Club Of America. Amsoil products are amongst the very best available. FAR superior to a Fram filter which is of VERY poor quality. As for full synthetic oils Mobil 1 is the easiest to get but Redline and Amsoil are even better in terms of protection. Your really splitting hairs here since as long as its not synthetic blend the lubricant is far better than any petoleum based oils. You can buy several Amsoil filters and even their oil at one time on their website. These are racing oil filters and designed for extreme use. Amsoil says you can EASILY run 7500 miles between changes. I run 6000 miles. BUY THE AMSOIL FILTERS!! Replacing the rear end and manual transmission gear oils with high end lubricants is also a wise move.The Fascist chip is beginning to control my brain.

 

[SVTdriver]

I run Redline sythetic fluids almost exclusively. The only non redline fluid in the car is ATE brake fluid. I have heard people say that amsoil is better than Redline. But when asked for real numbers on how much better it is. Noone so far has been able to produce results. So it seems to be a wash at this point. As far as filters are concerned. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use Fram. I have never heard a serious "car guy" ever recommend Fram. In fact a friend of mine who races. Was told by his engine builder. That if he ever used a Fram filter. He would never recieve another engine. I personally have used K&N oil filters. Since I figure K&N should know a thing or two about filters. And I like to stay at least somewhat loyal to a good brand.

As for real world examples. My friend Mark had 228K on a Geo metro. Still ran well the day he sold it. Castrol Syntec from day 1. His Cobra 150k on the motor. Redline or Mobil 1 Every 3-4k. And no issues at all. In fact he swears it's gaining hp the more miles he puts on it. I only have 101k on my cobra. And the only oil issue I have is a small leak from an improperly sealed sparkplug well gasket (Not the real description of course. But the best I could come up with).

 

[mpentico]

The most important aspect is the filter itself. I use only the Amsoil filter since I am familiar with Amsoil from the Porsche Club Of America. Amsoil products are amongst the very best available. FAR superior to a Fram filter which is of VERY poor quality. As for full synthetic oils Mobil 1 is the easiest to get but Redline and Amsoil are even better in terms of protection. Your really splitting hairs here since as long as its not synthetic blend the lubricant is far better than any petoleum based oils. You can buy several Amsoil filters and even their oil at one time on their website. These are racing oil filters and designed for extreme use. Amsoil says you can EASILY run 7500 miles between changes. I run 6000 miles. BUY THE AMSOIL FILTERS!! Replacing the rear end and manual transmission gear oils with high end lubricants is also a wise move.The Fascist chip is beginning to control my brain.

I too use AMSOIL. But I have also never seen a side by side compairison between it and Redline. I do not know of any being done.

In the past I've used Mobile 1 in many of my other cars without fear.
It is good stuff and easy to obtain.

I would definetly stay away from Fram. YIKES!

No need to wait on switching over to full synthetic.... many new cars come with it already installed.

With Mobile 1 I went 5K miles between changes.
With AMSOIL I go a full year (14K miles) with a filter change midway.

Hope this helps!

 

[rs-turbo]

I am an Amsoil Direct Dealer and have been using their products since the 80s, long before I ever became a Dealer. When I got my Mustang I converted it completely over as well. I've been using their high end Series 2000/3000 line of oils. The 2000 is a 0W-30, the 3000 is a 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel that also has the SL gas specs. I've also been using their filters. The casing are rated for 150 psi, while most others are around 80. Rumour has some possible filter changes, but right now the filters are actually rated for 12,500 miles or 6 months. This is to go with their general drain recommendation of 25,000 miles or one year, which they also warranty should something happen and the oil didn't perform as it should have. I've run all my cars many miles over the normal drain. My Mustang has seen a 20K drain and a 30K drain using oil analysis to monitor what was happening. It showed virtually no wear taking place.

The only comparison I have with Redline is an older 4-Ball Wear Test of the Series 2000 20W-50 when it first came out. Redline had at least twice the wear, if I recall. There almost was a lawsuit between the two companies over this as Redline did their own test and somehow showed their oil performed better, but when Amsoil tried to reproduce the results, they couldn't. Redline claimed Amsoil tests were false, and Amsoil claimed that their tests were standard ASTM tests and could be repeated unlike the one Redline did by driving a Corvette around and then testing used oil. Redline uses Ester as a base stock. Both Amsoil and Mobil 1 started with this base, but Esters tend to want to retain moisture. Since normal driving doesn't always allow you to heat the engine up to proper temps to boil out this moisture, both companies changed to a PAO base. Amsoil uses this in all their oils (except their XL line) and uses Esters to then beef up the oil more. I hope we see a little more comparisons in the future between the two companies, but since they consider Redline more of a specialty oil, they focus most of their comparisons to brands most people have access to. They will be taking on Royal Purple in the near future, so watch for test results on that. They are getting tired of Royal Purple claiming they are better than Amsoil, but in tests they aren't, so Amsoil plans to show test results soon.

If you want any pricing, let me know. They have other fluids as well. Last fall they revamped their Gear Lube to perform better, and new oil formulations are in the works to meet the newer SM/GF-4 specs. I'm guessing we will see more of the oils getting that rating later during the year. Last month their XL line was improved and released with these new specs. This line has 5W-20 in it and is rated for 7500 miles or six months unless manufacturer drains recommend longer ones, like many newer vehicles are now coming out with.

 

[whiteboyslo]

If you'd like to know more about oils and their myths, pick up the latest issue of MM&FF that came out earlier this week. It has anice article explaining what exactly synthetic oil is and how you benefit.

I once saw an episode of Horespower TV where they took a last gen Camaro SS and replaced all the stock lubricants in the drivetrain with Royal Purple synthetic. The car gained somewhere around 12 whp! All they did was an oil change, tranny fluid change, and diff fluid change. wow! not saying you have to get royal purple, but i think it goes to show the kind of gains you can get out of a good synthetic because of how well it reduces friction.

Mike

 

[jlisle01]

If you'd like to know more about oils and their myths, pick up the latest issue of MM&FF that came out earlier this week. It has anice article explaining what exactly synthetic oil is and how you benefit.

I once saw an episode of Horespower TV where they took a last gen Camaro SS and replaced all the stock lubricants in the drivetrain with Royal Purple synthetic. The car gained somewhere around 12 whp! All they did was an oil change, tranny fluid change, and diff fluid change. wow! not saying you have to get royal purple, but i think it goes to show the kind of gains you can get out of a good synthetic because of how well it reduces friction.

Mike

Quick question guys, Since the synthetic stuff reduces friction so much, wouldn't it interfere with a proper break in?

 

[rs-turbo]

If you'd like to know more about oils and their myths, pick up the latest issue of MM&FF that came out earlier this week. It has anice article explaining what exactly synthetic oil is and how you benefit.

I once saw an episode of Horespower TV where they took a last gen Camaro SS and replaced all the stock lubricants in the drivetrain with Royal Purple synthetic. The car gained somewhere around 12 whp! All they did was an oil change, tranny fluid change, and diff fluid change. wow! not saying you have to get royal purple, but i think it goes to show the kind of gains you can get out of a good synthetic because of how well it reduces friction.

Mike

Yes, this is a good article, so far the best one I have read recently. A few of the import magazines have written a few as well, Turbo and Import Tuner. I sent a letter into Turbo with a followup and got printed there. Import Tuner was way off with some of their comments. MM&FF did have one thing misleading that was quoted by the Royal Purple rep. He stated that all synthetics were made from crude. This is wrong, and once again I was typing a followup to correct this statement. This is true now for most synthetics since Castrol diluted the definition about 6 years ago. If Royal Purple has now started using this same base stock, I am even less impressed by them.

There are 5 Groups of automotive oils. Group I is no longer used. Group II is your current petroleum. Group III is now considered synthetic, but is made from petroleum. Group IV is reserved for PAO only and is often referred to as the start of the "true synthetics" since this was the normal base stock before. Group V is everything else and is usually oils made with an Ester base.

Oils get refined and fall in different places on the Viscocity Index Scale and this helps determine whether the oil falls in Group I-III. The higher the number, the more stable the oil is. These three Groups all are allowed a certain amount of impurities as well. As you can guess, the Group I oils are the lowest and are no longer used. Group II oils must fall on the scale between 80-119. Group III oils fall between 120-137. Both are allowed the same amount of saturates and sulfur. The new refining process they use can clean up the petroleum enough to fall into the Group III Viscocity Index numbers, so this was one of the reasons the API now says this type of oil is a synthetic. But companies can also buy various grades of this base stock. Most are buying bases at a 121 on this scale, barely better than the petroleum Group II. It's just enough that they can call it synthetic and charge more.

As far as Amsoil, the XL line is a Group III synthetic, but they buy a higher grade base which is a 137 on the scale. Their other oils are Group IV PAOs. Several years ago one of the local Corvette shops did some dino testing with his Vette. He changed his K&N Air Filter, Tranny Fluid and Valvoline Synthetic at the time over to the Amsoil Air Filter, Tranny Fluid and Series 2000 0W-30 and gained 12 HP total. He later wrote an article in Corvette Fever on 5 steps on increasing HP in the C5 Vette and one was converting to Amsoil.

 

[LiteGT]

Here is a link to that test mentioned above

http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/redline.htm

 

[LiteGT]

Interesting read on Royal Purple:

As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.

Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.

Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures.

This infomation was profided by AMSOIL Tech Department. They had an independent lab test Royal Purple against AMSOIL. They have found Moly in Royal Purple. As stated above, this can have negitive effects on your engine.

 

[LiteGT]

Here is the oil brands AMSOIL recommends in order. Haven't heard of a few of these. This was a result of a test. Of course AMSOIL did the test...but they were the first company to produce a full synthetic oil for cars back in 1972. I truly believe they know what they are talking about

1) AMSOIL

2) BP Visco 5000

3) Mobil 1

4) Mobil 1 (difference being price)

5) Hi-Tec HTO

6) Shell Helix Ultra

7) Royal Purple

8) Castrol R

9) Castrol SLX

10) Torco”

 

[rs-turbo]

Those are actually the test results from Fast Fours and Rotaries. If I recall they are in Australia/New Zealand area, so it is possible some of the oils they tested were more regional to them than us. I have the article and some others on my Web Site, if you want to read it (www.technilube.com). Click on the Media link on the top and the left menu will switch to some options with "Articles" being one of them. This article is actually then under "Articles Featuring Amsoil." I have some more I need to post, just haven't had the time yet.

 

[bigcat]

what do you guys think about the extended life mobile 1 synthetic? i was told that it is only $22.00/5 quarts at a demonstration at walmart. they said you could go like 15000 miles without changing it. i figure that $22 is not much to spend, and if you canged it every 3000 miles--or a little longer if you had to-- this would give you excellent protection well past 100,000 miles, would it not? what is the the price of amsoil and where do you get it? i know mobil 1 is carried by most retailers in nebraska, so all i have to do is go to the nearest store and there it is....

 

[nbk13nw]

Quick question guys, Since the synthetic stuff reduces friction so much, wouldn't it interfere with a proper break in?

Your internal (friction material loss / ring seating) is done after about 20 miles of hard driving. By that time the break-in (at least the rings) is more or less done. Drive it like yo stole it the first 20. Changed the oil mand filter to full synthetic for another 1000 miles and then cahnged again and I am currently running a 3000 mile interval.

 

[whiteboyslo]

what do you guys think about the extended life mobile 1 synthetic? i was told that it is only $22.00/5 quarts at a demonstration at walmart. they said you could go like 15000 miles without changing it. i figure that $22 is not much to spend, and if you canged it every 3000 miles--or a little longer if you had to-- this would give you excellent protection well past 100,000 miles, would it not? what is the the price of amsoil and where do you get it? i know mobil 1 is carried by most retailers in nebraska, so all i have to do is go to the nearest store and there it is....

i dunno. something about pushing an oil change that far out gives me the heebie jeebies. that OIL could probably hold up to it. i'd be more worried about the filter, though. for peace of mind, i would keep the intervals at somewhere around 5-7K with a good filter.

Mike

 

[ltccarndt]

Syn oil lasts a long long time

Syn oil lasts a long long time. I change mine twice a year---just to be safe. Twice a year (unless you drive a lot) will still bring you under the warranty limits.

I use the FRAM Tough Guard (Silver box--$5) filter since it's on for six months. They work fine.

Way back when we tested syn oil on Dodge 318 V-8's we had rebuilt at our US Army depot in Europe. We controlled the rebuild on some to get really good quality.

We installed two of those engines in M-890 (2 wheel drive version of the M-880 Dodge military pickup) Both of these trucks were driven around a 3 mile fence line, guard duty--10-20 miles and hours, for over a year virtually 24 hours a day (driver change etc--the vehicles were left running.) Any repairs/breakdowns/other service was done on the spot by depot mechanics. We used syn oil (Mobil One 10w30) IT WAS NEVER CHANGED in the entire 24 months. We replaced the filters at each 6 month point (3 changes total) Engines never needed added oil except to replace that lost with filter change!

After two years we tore down the engines and did oil analysis and microscope pictures of the main bearing journals and cylinder walls.

What we found: almost no wear. Incredible, but the entire inside was clean, sludge free, and lightly worn as in a break in type wear.

What I concluded:

Break your car in, go syn oil, enjoy life and don't look back.

 

[ltccarndt]

M-1 Tanks use syn oil

FYI: forgot to add.

M-1 tanks use syn oil. It is never changed until the routine oil sample, a small 1/4 cup sample sucked out of the crankcase--sent in to a central lab now and then) comes back from the lab saying "change the oil--and resample"

It is not ususual for 1 year or MORE before it is changed.

M-1 tanks would qualify for 'severe duty' wouldn't you say?

Performance of the syn oil, the M-1 tanks even in the duty in Iraq, have proven the ability of syn oil to go the distance.

 

[OUKimber]

OK rs-turbo,

I have almost 2k miles on my 05 and need to change the oil soon. If I want to go to a high quality synthetic like amsoil, do I need to change the oil to the syn. run it for a few hundred miles, then swap it out with fresh to get rid of the factory crud?

Would you all reccommend 2 changes a year for a non-daily driver (I'll probably put about 10K a year on it tops)?

Also could you PM me pricing or a link to a website where I can order.

Edit: also, I live in Oklahoma where we go from 100+ in the summer to freezing in the winter. What weight would you recommend?

 

[Padg]

What if you have already been using Regular and want to switch? is that ok? I have a cobra 4v with 19000 miles... Is it ok to switch to syn.?

 

[ltccarndt]

beater/funky

beater/funky engines need not apply.

yes, you can switch to syn, if you read this forum your car is in the 'top' cared for car group and clean enough for the switch.