quick question, loctite on spark plugs
- Thread starter OleYellarGT
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TJM01 said:
really i am nuts.. FORD has us use locktite on all the lightings durring PDI.
you go verifiy it if you don't belive me or shoot your damm plugs out of your heads for all i care. next time you can me nuts check who you are talking too first. i am a ford senior master service tech. not only am i certified on the SVT cars but i was in the pilot class of the course, they bounced the material off of us and asked what we thought of it.
so tell me WHY am i nuts. do you understand why i am saying too locktite them. do you know how the modular motor plugs like too rattle loose then shoot out of the head. now explain too me WHY using blue locktite is bad.
i will try and find that SSM later. i need the vin number off of a lighting, back when we had new lightings we were supposed too remove all the plugs and locktie them down. FORD wanted us too use red locktite, but i think thats a little much.
plugs don't seize in the mod motors. the locktite helps prevent the plug from rattling loose. tell me what you rather have. a car with one plug blown out fo the head. or a little tiny bit more effort to remove the plug.
ModMotorRacer said:
wow this is too funny.. now the locktite that ford already wanted us too put on the 5.4 S/C motors is going too ruin the heads
Adam my girlfriend probally knows more about these motors than you do just from living with me and hearing me talk with friends. 
There is plenty of room for disagreement here without being so harsh toward MikeZ28. I've not yet decided if Loctite, anti-sieze, or nothing, is the way I will go, but if MikeZ28 says Loctite is a current dealer practice, I believe him. His posts always reflect practical knowledge and experience not found in books or theory. And he always tries to be helpful.
I don't think you will find a Ford TSB, nor will one be issued. If Ford were to publish an opinion, it would be considered "official" and open them to future liability. This doesn't stop them from privately passing the word to the "front line" techs.
My concerns regarding the use of Loctite 242 (the blue stuff) are:
(1) Diminished thermal conductivity; it may contribute to higher plug tip temperatures, and possibly detonation.
(2) It loses strength at high temperatures (50% loss at 100C). You heat it to break it loose.
If the engines serviced by MikeZ28 contunue to run fine without plug ejections, don't ping or detonate, and the plugs can still be removed 20K miles later with hand tools, I'll be convinced. Let's wait and see before passing final judgment.
I don't think you will find a Ford TSB, nor will one be issued. If Ford were to publish an opinion, it would be considered "official" and open them to future liability. This doesn't stop them from privately passing the word to the "front line" techs.
My concerns regarding the use of Loctite 242 (the blue stuff) are:
(1) Diminished thermal conductivity; it may contribute to higher plug tip temperatures, and possibly detonation.
(2) It loses strength at high temperatures (50% loss at 100C). You heat it to break it loose.
If the engines serviced by MikeZ28 contunue to run fine without plug ejections, don't ping or detonate, and the plugs can still be removed 20K miles later with hand tools, I'll be convinced. Let's wait and see before passing final judgment.
mity2
I like Pro3 and all I got was this crappy CT.
my local Ford dealer told me that they loctite them if someone bringing in Mod motor for plug change...
TJM01 said:
i am tring too find it. it was a pre delivery ssm.ford wanted us too remove the plugs and locktite them. issued 3 years ago for lightings. i remember because our PDI tech was pissed because ford did'nt want too pay any extra time too do them. there is a class action against ford right now on this issue i am hoping i can find it now. if not i probally have a paper copy at work that i can scan. or i can call the tech hotline and ask the hotline engineer about it and post the audio clip. with this class action out there anything that proves that this is fords fault is going too be dificult too find.
give me a few days i will find it.
BTW i am still waiting for one of you "experts" too give me a reason why using blue removable locktite is bad.
SeanD1111 said:
yes we use the high temp. never had one blow out after this. tourqe them right with the locktite and no problems. ford recomened the red high temp. but i personally think thats overkill.
i am going too try and find info on this. but this is a touchy subject for ford right now with the legal action going on.
n0v8or said:
thanks for the vote of confidence. i would not post on this if i did'nt here it from ford. i got a little pissed about those two posts but whatever they can think what they want. i still don't get why they think locktite is going too ruin there cyl heads. i would like to hear why.
your right about the blue locktite it is going too loose some holding power under temp. the red stuff will hold better. but if you go with red don't go nuts with it.
at my dealer we use high temp blue. but ford recomened the red stuff. the stuff we have says it's for high temp and removeable.
i have gotten them out with hand tools with the red stuff. locktite is not all that strong if you have the right tools. if your using a ratchet with a 5 inch handle you will be there all day.
ford uses red locktite on a lot of things we take out by hand. but too be fair i work on cars all day and things become easier with practice.
and about
MikeZ28 said:
What is the "Legal Action" being directed at? The triton series, since they seem to blow them WAY more than others?
Never mind, I read your above post and it seems that you are talking the Triton engines. You know I am a Ford lover but it seems very obvious to me that the 4 threads that hold the plug in those heads is just not enough to get proper torque specs on, especially considering the dissimilar metals between the head and the plug. I hope ford pony's up on this and provides a fix.
can i get in on this legal action? my car is the one with all the posts about the plug just getting blown out of the head. now i have to buy a new head 350, kit 115, and pay the damn dealer 600 for labor to get this fixed, all because they put a damn helicoil in there the first time they f'd it up. oh and dearborn says the only people that can give you official tsb info is the dealership, but you know that if you are asking about a tsb in the first place its because the dealer is also gonna be at fault if you prove your case...nice. i guess i'll locktite my plugs for the new head when it goes on, and dont talk ish to mike he's just trying to help and obviously is more in the "ford game" than most of us.
This is exactly why Ford techs will never perform any underhood work on my car. I've had plugs in and out of my car, snugged them down with anti-seize, and not had a problem. I know many people who do the same, and they haven't had problems either.
Do you know what kind of havoc loctite can cause on aluminum threads once that stuff cures. You may have gotten lucky so far, but sooner or later you'll be pulling threads out with those plugs as well.
Honestly, if Ford is actually telling their techs to use this practice, it's probably because most people only replace their plugs once under warranty. Loctite those new plugs in there, and by the time they're ready for a new set, the cost of head replacement is solely on the customer.
Do you know what kind of havoc loctite can cause on aluminum threads once that stuff cures. You may have gotten lucky so far, but sooner or later you'll be pulling threads out with those plugs as well.
Honestly, if Ford is actually telling their techs to use this practice, it's probably because most people only replace their plugs once under warranty. Loctite those new plugs in there, and by the time they're ready for a new set, the cost of head replacement is solely on the customer.
It's bad because loctite can cure preventing the use of hand tools to remove the plug. If this is the case then the aluminum will give before the steel.
The only way to "safely" remove the parts (if this happens) is to spot heat the threads to 482 degrees while removing the plugs. I'm certainly not going to be the one who stands over a running engine while trying to remove a spark plug. You sir can have that honor.
So go ahead - loctite your plugs and hope for the best.
The only way to "safely" remove the parts (if this happens) is to spot heat the threads to 482 degrees while removing the plugs. I'm certainly not going to be the one who stands over a running engine while trying to remove a spark plug. You sir can have that honor.
So go ahead - loctite your plugs and hope for the best.
Bingo.D.K said:Honestly, if Ford is actually telling their techs to use this practice, it's probably because most people only replace their plugs once under warranty. Loctite those new plugs in there, and by the time they're ready for a new set, the cost of head replacement is solely on the customer.
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
This has to be one of the most absurd posts I've ever seen on this board. You should NEVER loctite a spark plug into an engine especially a mod motor which already has weak threads as it is.
How many posts to you see about spark plugs backing out of the hole? None because they don't back out every so often you find people that have their plugs and the aluminum they were threaded into blowing out completely.
I'd personally like to know how a spark plug is going to come unthreaded with a rubber plug boot around it? The COP or spark plug boot sitting around the porcelin (sp?) isn't even going to allow it to spin in the first place.
Good luck to those of you loctiting your plugs in and congrats to Ford for finding a way to increase parts sales because that is all that will come of something like this.
P.S. 112K miles, 900 passes, dozen or so plug changes with anti-seize and no backed out plugs...imagine that.
Bill
How many posts to you see about spark plugs backing out of the hole? None because they don't back out every so often you find people that have their plugs and the aluminum they were threaded into blowing out completely.
I'd personally like to know how a spark plug is going to come unthreaded with a rubber plug boot around it? The COP or spark plug boot sitting around the porcelin (sp?) isn't even going to allow it to spin in the first place.
Good luck to those of you loctiting your plugs in and congrats to Ford for finding a way to increase parts sales because that is all that will come of something like this.
P.S. 112K miles, 900 passes, dozen or so plug changes with anti-seize and no backed out plugs...imagine that.
Bill
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