Out of all the rack kits, does anyone make one right?

[Flyguyeddy]

More importantly or me, do they all maintain stock turning circles?

if i was to make my own custom fat man style setup, and used the steering arm thats on the spindle instead of the caliper mount, and used an escort or whatever rack, would i be able to maintain the stock turning circle? if so that would be great.

anyone have any ideas?

 

[1967stang302]

check out vikingmustang.com cool swedish dude that if I am correct adapted volvo R&P to work on a '66 and '67 pony. I'm not sure if he is selling them yet, but I do know that he does have plans on how to do it yourself. forgot to mention he swears it has the same turning radius as before.

off topic: he also made a collapsable steering wheel so we don't spear ourselves the first headon collision we are in.



Light a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, light a man on fire and he will be warm the rest of his life.
-Just Fred

 

[TT670]

From what I understand TCP and RRS are as close to "right" as you'll get , but both are pretty expensive too. Go with a randalls rack or a steeroids, and if you get a big enough tire on it you wont have to worry about the rack limiting turning radius..LOL

 

[Opentracker]

Well, you asked for ideas. Save your money and get a new steering box and use a roller idler arm. The center link will move so smooth you won't believe it. Add a bump steer kit and your still way under the price of a rack. Rod end strut rods and roller perches will help alot too. Sorry - just my $.02

John

 

[steel1212]

roller idler arm

roller idler arm? Uh oh John do you want more of my money lol. What is this thing?

 

[Håkan]

check out vikingmustang.com cool swedish dude that if I am correct adapted volvo R&P to work on a '66 and '67 pony. I'm not sure if he is selling them yet, but I do know that he does have plans on how to do it yourself. forgot to mention he swears it has the same turning radius as before.

off topic: he also made a collapsable steering wheel so we don't spear ourselves the first headon collision we are in.

It was a modified power r&p from a Mazda 929 that I used on a ´69 Mach1 and a modified manual SAAB r&p that I used on a ´65 convertible. Both were made with a custom centerlink that made it possible to re-use the original tie rods and to minimize bumpsteer. Unfortunately I came to the conclusion that it would be too expensive to mass produce them with this complicated design.

But I have just made a new design using a Opel Vectra (European GM car) center take off rack & pinion and it´s undergoing tests on a ´68 convertible right now. We have sorted out some initial problems that were all related to the hydraulics and it seems to work very good now. The owner of the ´68 says the steering is as good as on his Audi TT.

The Opel r&p have 2,75 turns from lock to lock and more than 6" of rack travel and there´s no increase in turning radius. We kept the inner tie rod ends in the original position, but if/when I decide that this design will go into production I will optimize bumpsteer. I didn´t do any mods to the Opel r&p except for an adapter for the steering U-joint and re-routing the hydraulic lines on it. Later models of this particular Opel r&p have a 3/4" Double-D input shaft and won´t need any adapter.

I´ve also just made a new webpage with some pics and info about this new r&p design: http://www.vikingmustang.com/News_04.asp

roller idler arm? Uh oh John do you want more of my money lol. What is this thing?

This is what I think opentracker means:

 

[bnickel]

Hakan, that new rack looks pretty damn good, i like. it looks a lot like the rack setup that RRS uses and i especially like rack slide you made. looks like RRS' linear travel device. the rack also looks very similar to a GM J-car rack, very possible even a caddy catera rack would work well too since it is based on the opel platform

 

[Håkan]

Hakan, that new rack looks pretty damn good, i like. it looks a lot like the rack setup that RRS uses and i especially like rack slide you made. looks like RRS' linear travel device. the rack also looks very similar to a GM J-car rack, very possible even a caddy catera rack would work well too since it is based on the opel platform

Thanks bnickel!

Yes, it does look a lot like the GM J-car r&p, the one I used was made by ZF, German company that makes a lot of r&ps and other thingies with gears, even transmissions for Formula One. Makes we wanna think it´s high quality.

Another good thing at least for me here in Sweden is that Swedish SAAB was bought by GM back in the nineties and forced to use the Opel Vectra platform for their 9-3 model which means that there´s a lot of these rack & pinions around over here, can even be bought as brand new. If my research tells me right SAAB is still using a the same or at least a very similar rack & pinion.

The power steering pump is also rather straight forward as it´s the GM type II pump available from several vendors and brackets to mount it on a Ford engine can be bought too.

 

[Opentracker]

This is what I think opentracker means:

That's it. Though the kit on the left is a non-greasable kit from Delta Mustang, and only fits a quick steer idler arm. The one on the right is a greasable kit from Moog that fits regular 6cyl Mustang/Falcon idler arms. Changing the spring perch, strut rod and idler arm to bearings, makes the cars drive much-much better. Cobra Automotive sells a kit that is greasable and works with a stock idler arm or a quick steer kit.

John

 

[BullittFB]

According to a thread on Mustang Steve's forum, this company, www.mavalgear.com. is about to come up with a totally bolt on rack and pinion for the mustangs and will be for around $400 bucks, and MS has taked to them about being a distributor.
PS For the benefit of our hobby, hard feelings Stangnet.....right?

 

[BobV]

I got mine from www.deltabaymustang.com - used on a standard V8 idler arm, and it is greasable as well.

 

[tomstir]

I read somewhere (I think) that the roller bearing idler arm was only to be used for "off road" use...something about not "returning" to center. Hey Opentracker and Bobv and I guess anyone else out there that has one...have you felt this?

tomstir

 

[TT670]

If youve got enough caster the roller idler will be no problem, with stock alignment specs it may not return to center as well.

 

[Opentracker]

No problems for us with "return to center". We run a bit more caster than the factory settings. The factory settings are not good for our cars anyway. They were designed for bias ply tires. We run 0 to .5 neg. camber, 1.5 to 2.5 pos. caster and 1/8" toe in.


Delta Bay must be selling a geasable kit along with the kit for the quick steer kit. I learn something new every day on this forum. Thanks, what did it cost? I think the ones from Cobra Automotive are $65.

John

 

[brianj5600]

I keep looking at the GM boxes as an alternative to R&P. Anyone ever seen one on a classic mustang? You can get about any pitman arm for them and get rid of the numb slave power assist.

 

[bnickel]

problem with the saginaw (GM) power gearboxes is that there isn't enough room for them between the shock tower and firewall.

 

[brianj5600]

problem with the saginaw (GM) power gearboxes is that there isn't enough room for them between the shock tower and firewall.

I was actually looking at the tri-5 box. It looks like the same bolt pattern in a borgeson ad in street rodder magazine. I'm sure someone has tried it and if it worked it would be a popular swap. Bnickel, I saw in a post elsewhere that you are sticking with 15's on your car. What brand, size tire are you using? I want 15's too, but tire size seems limited. M/T is coming out with some good looking radials in 15", http://mickeythompsontires.com/street.html , but not 'til sept.

 

[bnickel]

well it will eventually have 15x8's all around with 295/50-15's out back and i'm hoping i can squeeze a 275/50-15 up front but i'll have to wait and see on that one. right now it has 15x8 275/50-15 out back and 15x7 235/60-15 up front, the front tires are a little taller than the rear because of the inch of rim width. i like to have some sidewall so it has a bit better ride. i know a 275/40-17 will fit up front but to fit a 275/50-15 up front i'll have do some playing around with rim width and backspace first. if i can't fit those up front i'll stay with the 235/60-15 front and 295/50-15 rear. i may also have to go wider on the rear for the 295/50 like maybe to a 9 or 9.5" wheel

 

[70vert]

A fixed Steeroids??

Håkan,

Is this basically a Steeroids-like design with a few things to minimize flex? It looks like you have a more solid connection to the frame and that slider bar is there to add stiffness, I imagine? It also seems like there's no compromise to the steering travel. Here are photos of the Steeroids. They mount in the same place. Would you care to comment on what is similar and different to their design? (I have Steeroids installed)

and here's a link to a few final install photos on my ride:

http://homepage.mac.com/jbauder/steeroidsuniqueweb/steeroidsuniqueweb.html


Thanks,
Joe

It was a modified power r&p from a Mazda 929 that I used on a ´69 Mach1 and a modified manual SAAB r&p that I used on a ´65 convertible. Both were made with a custom centerlink that made it possible to re-use the original tie rods and to minimize bumpsteer. Unfortunately I came to the conclusion that it would be too expensive to mass produce them with this complicated design.

But I have just made a new design using a Opel Vectra (European GM car) center take off rack & pinion and it´s undergoing tests on a ´68 convertible right now. We have sorted out some initial problems that were all related to the hydraulics and it seems to work very good now. The owner of the ´68 says the steering is as good as on his Audi TT.

The Opel r&p have 2,75 turns from lock to lock and more than 6" of rack travel and there´s no increase in turning radius. We kept the inner tie rod ends in the original position, but if/when I decide that this design will go into production I will optimize bumpsteer. I didn´t do any mods to the Opel r&p except for an adapter for the steering U-joint and re-routing the hydraulic lines on it. Later models of this particular Opel r&p have a 3/4" Double-D input shaft and won´t need any adapter.

 

[Håkan]

Håkan,

Is this basically a Steeroids-like design with a few things to minimize flex? It looks like you have a more solid connection to the frame and that slider bar is there to add stiffness, I imagine? It also seems like there's no compromise to the steering travel. Here are photos of the Steeroids. They mount in the same place. Would you care to comment on what is similar and different to their design? (I have Steeroids installed)

and here's a link to a few final install photos on my ride:

http://homepage.mac.com/jbauder/steeroidsuniqueweb/steeroidsuniqueweb.html


Thanks,
Joe

Hard to say as I´ve never seen any of the American kits IRL. I have seen a GM J-car r&p though in MustangSteve´s garage in Carrollton, Texas when I was there last summer, but that´s about it.

Here´s some additional info about my prototype design that might make it different:

The brackets I´ve made to attach the Opel r&p to the framerails uses 6 bolts on the driver´s side and 3 bolts on the passenger side. The material I used in the brackets is 4 mm (3/16") steel. We tested a more simple bracket on the driver´s side to begin with, but it was flexing and I added some gussets and 2 more bolts to make it solid.

I used the same 4 mm (3/16") steel material to make the new centerlink or the piece that connects the tie rods to the r&p. In all holes there´s turned inserts welded making it possible to re-use the original inner tie rod ends and the 2 original M12 (~1/2") fine threaded bolts on the Opel r&p. There´s also reinforcements welded to the backside of the piece connecting the inner tie rod ends to the r&p.

I re-used the original tie rods with inner and outer tie rod ends.

When I started to make this new prototype I didn´t know who was going to test it, so I made it possible to use it on either a ´65/´66 or a ´67 - ´70 Mustang and when I saw how far it was between the 2 bolts in the center of the r&p and the inner tie rod end hole on the passenger side if used on a ´65/´66 Mustang I made that slide bar to support that end of the piece connecting the the inner tie rod ends to the r&p.

I´ve also found that there´s poly bushings available instead of the original rubber bushing that I took from the Opel to attach the r&p to my brackets and we might try them out to make the whole thing even more solid.

Maybe I also should mention that the ´68 Mustang we are testing this prototype on have a front and rear suspension that is as good as you make it using the original but reinforced A-arms, poly bushings, Koni shocks, HD springs, fine tuned alignment, swaybars, Baer front brakes, 17" wheels etc. It´s powered by a Paxton supercharged 347 and also has a Cobra T5 transmission, Recaro seats and so on.