Handles like a crippled elephant

[Hal900x]

Well, ok not that bad.

Here's an excerpt from a review at a site I frequent. The URL for the full review can be found at http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/content/110808092334068140/

"To keep costs low, the Blue Oval’s Bean Counters decreed a continuation of the Mustang’s live rear axle. “Live” as in “bouncy”. In fact, this set-up virtually guarantees a crap ride and significant traction loss during hard cornering. To their credit, Ford’s clever boffins have tweaked the Mustang’s Luddite suspension to provide a reasonable ride and minimal wheel hop. Even so, the GT still displays a natural aversion to hard-charging in anything other than a straight line. Fling yourself into a bumpy corner and the Mustang’s rear end threatens to fling you right back out. The problem is exacerbated by a major dose of initial body lean, which is exacerbated by a driving chair that offers less lateral support than a highly polished mahogany bench"

I find this to be all too true. Now, let's get one thing straight: I love this car. Let me repeat: I LOVE this car. But the reviewer is correct. This car flails wildly in the twisties. Hazardously so. It's disappointing after all the gushing reviews from both press and owners stating the handling is "respectable" etc. Respectable in comparison to a '68 maybe.

Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations for handling-improving mods, especially mods to reduce oversteer and body roll, and then after that looking at wheel hop. Preferably non-warranty-voiding mods, but as the Stones once stated, "you can't always get what you want." But then again, if you try sometime, you just might get what you need. So let's here your suggestions, please.

Edit: fixed url

 

[SP_51-F1]

I call BS. If your car is having that bad of a problem, something is wrong with it. I take mine hard the the twisties ALL the time, and I think this car handles awesome. A well done SRA can beat a IRS. Yes, there are cars with great IRS that handle better than a stang, but a lot of people are dogging the SRA just because it is one.
This car handles great!

 

[Hal900x]

It could be problems, but I think it's just perception. My is skewed because of zero experience with RWD, so it's noob syndrome on top of everything else. But still, I want to hedge my bets with some good mods. It seems that in all the stang forums, 95% of the tech discussion centers around more horsepower.

 

[Nick85]

Fool to cry ....this handles awesome. I've driven a few good handling vehicles like the Mercedes SLK and Porsche Boxster...this car is right up there...tight like a a tiga.

Always room for improvement though. You've got loads of options...Saleen has a complete suspension kit out which looks top notch. It retails 999 bucks...check out www.saleen.com

Eibach has the Pro-kit and more extreme Sports-Kit out. They also have a complete suspension kit coming out which is supposed to be good.

HR springs have also been highly praised.

Many choices here. Personally, I was thinking of going with the Saleen kit..but i'm pleased with thehandling and I think Ford got the stance just right so i'll probably leave it. Good luck

 

[DukeOfValencia]

sounds like the same crap other reviews say.
The car handles great. If you put people behind the wheel and said it had an IRS I bet 90% wouldn't know the difference...
I think the reviewers who want an IRS are all yuppies. They probably want heated and cooled seats, a navigation system so they don't get lost, and a person to follow along just in case the car needs a wash...
get over it! The car rocks!

 

[01GT/03ZX9]

thats really odd.Im continually amazing myself with this cars handling on curvy roads.All the american car mags praise it also.

 

[SpazHairlip]

I whiped my 05 GT Vert around a VT Stowe MT bend that I wouldn't take my GF's 330ci through. THis car is no C6, but it is very close.

 

[YoungStanger]

Last night I drove through malibu cyn road. Extremely twisty mountain road. My car could take the 30 mph turns easily at 60 mph. This car handles better than my Dad's G35. Alot tighter.

 

[kpribble@terrib]

My Saleen will do well over .9 G lateral all day long and transitions very well. It is very predictable and while the ride is firm it will not shake the fillings out of you teeth!!! This car corners very competiviely witha Z06 of Boxter although you do notice the additional weight during transitions!! The Saleen suspension has very good feedback while keeping the car daily drivable

 

[turrizt]

I had an 03 Evolution and a 04 WRX which are both excellent AWD handling cars... Now I have the 05 Mustang, and well I have not driven it that hard in the twisties, but I would say it is "respectable" and could probably easily be improved upon with the correct tires/suspension etc.

 

[300bhp/ton]

Well, ok not that bad.

Here's an excerpt from a review at a site I frequent. The URL for the full review can be found at http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/co...08092334068140/

"To keep costs low, the Blue Oval’s Bean Counters decreed a continuation of the Mustang’s live rear axle. “Live” as in “bouncy”. In fact, this set-up virtually guarantees a crap ride and significant traction loss during hard cornering. To their credit, Ford’s clever boffins have tweaked the Mustang’s Luddite suspension to provide a reasonable ride and minimal wheel hop. Even so, the GT still displays a natural aversion to hard-charging in anything other than a straight line. Fling yourself into a bumpy corner and the Mustang’s rear end threatens to fling you right back out. The problem is exacerbated by a major dose of initial body lean, which is exacerbated by a driving chair that offers less lateral support than a highly polished mahogany bench"

I find this to be all too true. Now, let's get one thing straight: I love this car. Let me repeat: I LOVE this car. But the reviewer is correct. This car flails wildly in the twisties. Hazardously so. It's disappointing after all the gushing reviews from both press and owners stating the handling is "respectable" etc. Respectable in comparison to a '68 maybe.

Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations for handling-improving mods, especially mods to reduce oversteer and body roll, and then after that looking at wheel hop. Preferably non-warranty-voiding mods, but as the Stones once stated, "you can't always get what you want." But then again, if you try sometime, you just might get what you need. So let's here your suggestions, please.

you are absolutly right.

And any of the nah sayers going on about how its a great handler have probably never driven a great handling car.

But its not all bad. The 05 GT is a very capable car and the one I dorve seemed fairly well composed and positive to drive, although the ride quality was aporling. And this comes from someone who drives a stripped out semi race car each day.

But capable and great are two different things

If you want to make a real difference to the car it will cost you. And will almost certainly void parts of the warranty and make the ride even worse. Here are just some general tips to making a car handle, so they should for the most part be useful.

-swap the panhard for a Watts linkage
-run sensible sized tyres all round. In cross section and profile. To much of an extreme in either will be detrimental
-keep front/rear tyres similar widths
-for better body control you'll be wanting to lower the cars centre of gravity. BUT do not limit suspension travel else it will just crash out against the bump stops. I would guess revised bounce/jounce rates will need to be looked at. Something to react quicker over bumps/curbs but stiffer so as the prevent excess lean.
-revised anti-roll bars front and possibly rear.
-stiffer bushes all round to improve steering response
-revised geometry setup, with this you can make the car more responsive and directional, the downsde is it may make it more twitchy at speed.
-chassis braces may help, but unless running semi-slick racing tyres and cornering really hard or a lot of powersliding I doubt it will make that many odds. Go for weld on braces where possible as bolt ons will still have a lot of movement.


The biggest thing to remeber is proportion. If you fit 20" rims or slam the car to the ground it will be detrimental to performance.

You are wanting more chassis control, an over stiff setup may provide grip but it will likely be a pig to drive and when it bites it will likely bite your arm off down to the ankle.

REMEMBER GRIP AND HANDLING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS​

 

[vacooley]

My Saleen will do well over .9 G lateral all day long and transitions very well. It is very predictable and while the ride is firm it will not shake the fillings out of you teeth!!! This car corners very competiviely witha Z06 of Boxter although you do notice the additional weight during transitions!! The Saleen suspension has very good feedback while keeping the car daily drivable

It IS the transitions that will get you in the stang. However, it is not all due to weight. The rear suspension DOES bounce, it DOES come unglued on rough pavement.

I also love my car and completely enjoy driving it but the under/over steer transition is very much exagerated by the fact that it will load/unload the rear wheels unevenly in a hard turn (solid axles just do that). It can me cured (mostly) but requires a really harsh level of stiffness to do it.

BTW - a less than perfect handling car is REALLY fun to drive!!!

 

[martimus]

The review simply shows the bias of the reviewer... The reviewer seems to gloat over the fact that the Mustang burns some gasoline... but glosses over the fact that the Mustang is a Muscle car from a long line of muscle cars.

If you look further through the web site you'll see that the site owner has a definite bias against American Cars. One section on the site is called "GM Deathwatch".

 

[NVERL8]

Well, ok not that bad.

Here's an excerpt from a review at a site I frequent. The URL for the full review can be found at http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/co...08092334068140/

"To keep costs low, the Blue Oval’s Bean Counters decreed a continuation of the Mustang’s live rear axle. “Live” as in “bouncy”. In fact, this set-up virtually guarantees a crap ride and significant traction loss during hard cornering. To their credit, Ford’s clever boffins have tweaked the Mustang’s Luddite suspension to provide a reasonable ride and minimal wheel hop. Even so, the GT still displays a natural aversion to hard-charging in anything other than a straight line. Fling yourself into a bumpy corner and the Mustang’s rear end threatens to fling you right back out. The problem is exacerbated by a major dose of initial body lean, which is exacerbated by a driving chair that offers less lateral support than a highly polished mahogany bench"

I find this to be all too true. Now, let's get one thing straight: I love this car. Let me repeat: I LOVE this car. But the reviewer is correct. This car flails wildly in the twisties. Hazardously so. It's disappointing after all the gushing reviews from both press and owners stating the handling is "respectable" etc. Respectable in comparison to a '68 maybe.

Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations for handling-improving mods, especially mods to reduce oversteer and body roll, and then after that looking at wheel hop. Preferably non-warranty-voiding mods, but as the Stones once stated, "you can't always get what you want." But then again, if you try sometime, you just might get what you need. So let's here your suggestions, please.

My advise, feather your right foot in the corners. Holding it on the floor will produce a very fun ride with a very negative ending.

 

[iammilo]

Some truth there. The car works well in the turns, but it's still a big car that leans and bounces on bad surfaces. They did a good job of it, though, and credit is due.

It's an affordable muscle car. That's not an apology for its limitations. It is what it is. It's not an all-out sports car. Personally, I'm glad it isn't.

I drove a co-workers RX-8, which handles WAY better than my GT. On the other hand, the Mazda was a stiff and unpleasent ride tucked away into a fairly uncomfortable cockpit. It wasn't very fast either. I walked him from the light and a roll-on with two additional passangers in my car while he drove his alone. Not even close.

It all evens out in the end. I'd bitch and complain if the GT were a slab of concrete plowing through corners, but it works really well for what it's built to do. No complaints from me.

 

[Hal900x]

Good forum. A variety of informed responses, plus the usual gaggle of stang-can-do-no-wrong knee-jerks. Admittedly I trolled a bit, but unintentionally as I was somewhat scared by my percieved lack of performance. I'm emotional, what can I say...I apply the same passion to my joy in driving this car for what it is: A muscle car.

I bought this car with the understanding, as some said, that it is a muscle car for the new milennium. As such, it shines. This is, hands down, the best car of '05. It's awe-inspiring, I wouldn't trade it for anything else in it's price range. I've never been a Ford fan, but this car changed all that. It has flaws, but it never fails to make me grin, and that takes alot from me as I'm not, by nature, a "car worshipper". I love this car, but I'm not afraid to pick it apart and look for flaws. That's my nature, it doesn't stop me from drooling all over my GT, daily. I don't even walk to the corner store anymore.

I will have to push this car further and harder, and receive more feedback. Overall I'm very heartened by the responses. Thanks much for the advice on mods all. Some of you have me laughing though, with the level of handling performance I'm hearing about. Handles better in the twisties than a G35...LOL. That car is a 350Z with a longer wheelbase and slightly softened ride. I've driven both of those, and in comparison the GT hangs out more ass than a Rap video extra. But yes, it does handle very well FOR a muscle car. I was simply given to believe it might handle comparably to something like those, and it just ain't so.

As for the reviewer, if you think it was a condemnation of the 'Stang, you didn't read the whole thing: "The best Mustang ever draws its design influences from the best Mustangs ever" and of course "the Mustang GT looks great, sounds like sex and goes like stink." etc. He has no bias against US cars, just one mismanaged car company (GM), and rightly so. Go read the Ford GT review http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/content/110808089865821574/ for an example of another Ford review from him. He is however, refreshingly opinionated and thus is my favorite reviewer. Unlike most reviewers now who are beholden to the car companies and give just about everything a motor-trend style sparkling review.

 

[RiceRoketToMust]

I consider it my own personal, portable rollercoaster without the long lines.....

 

[Old School 77]

It kills me that so many people dog on the Mustang for what it "isn't". It isn't fast enough, Not enough cubic inches, not enough horsepower, needs better brakes, needs an IRS, it doesn't corner good enough....bla....bla....bla. Well Ford did make the car that you all want. Its call the GT and it costs $140,000.00. The mustang is a begining. A starting point. It is what ever you can dream it to be (or afford). that is why there is so much aftermarket support. Its not the best of any world. It sits right in the middle, ready to become whatever you want it to be. 1/4 mile killer, corner carver, time machine, Bling bling. whatever you want. that is why it is still here after all these years. For the price, you cant beat it.

 

[300bhp/ton]

It kills me that so many people dog on the Mustang for what it "isn't". It isn't fast enough, Not enough cubic inches, not enough horsepower, needs better brakes, needs an IRS, it doesn't corner good enough....bla....bla....bla. Well Ford did make the car that you all want. Its call the GT and it costs $140,000.00. The mustang is a begining. A starting point. It is what ever you can dream it to be (or afford). that is why there is so much aftermarket support. Its not the best of any world. It sits right in the middle, ready to become whatever you want it to be. 1/4 mile killer, corner carver, time machine, Bling bling. whatever you want. that is why it is still here after all these years. For the price, you cant beat it.

The GT may be good, but it is not the best or premium in handling stakes.

If you don't beleive me download this vid (its really slow d/l unless you pay a subscription) but read the comments too. http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=799

Although the GT is very very fast you can see the massive understeer it suffers from.

PS

You'll probably need to register to get the vid, but its FREE. And there are some other pretty coold vids for d/l too.

 

[Huls2304]

I think that what people don't understand is how much of a difference that tires make. GT's come with 235/55 all season tires, not the best for grip or sidewall flex. In hard cornering the tires give way long before the suspension becomes unsettled. I came from owning an FD with what is nothing less than race suspension, so I know what a proper handling car feels like.