300hp N/A v6, how to.

#21
MakotoS13 said:
i'd say the axle would be the first to go BUT you need an LSD anyhow. there's a reason the 4.0 rangers come with 8.8" axles in the rear instead of 7.5. ford really dropped the ball here, i bet future V6's have the 8.8 with LSD option.
Click to expand...

I agree - Limited Slip is the way to go. Can someone look into the Ranger LSD? Ford's decision to retain the solid axle via redesign and production of the new 3-point rear architecture on the rear axle has provided a nice little side affect. It is providing an aggressive recoil control factor at launch, but I think we should take a closer look at the Rear axle architecture and run a few variables on lightweight, yet durable components that will allow for a solid launch, keep the tires on the ground. I don't want to go verticle. I have always felt that Jump Launches, although they look real cool :D , tend to kill the inertia of the vehicle when the front tires make reconnect contact with the ground.

I have already stated that I am in no way even half knowledgable on gears. Someone else can have this area. If we can look at these options with limited agressive porting, then we should be able to bring the cost down a bit.

Faz..Here are some dyno sheets from Compcams...Take a look. It will of course depend on the type of Cams we decide on. http://www.compcams.com/Technical/DynoSheets/


Okay back to work. DO MY DAYS EVER END? :shrug: :(

Jenn
(Excuse the spelling...In too much of a hurry)... :D
 

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#22
vb101 said:
I agree that there really should have been an 8.8" in the V6's. Ford's just too cheap I guess. :D

The 7.5 axle is why I'm planning on not going over the 300hp level for for a long while. 300 horses for a N/A V6 would be nice.
Click to expand...


Finding an 8.8 rearend is not hard at all.. Looky here!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...4208&item=4563039890&sspagename=rvi:1:2v_home

If push comes to shove, and it needs to be done you will just have to do it..

Here is a better choice!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...3731&item=7987684470&sspagename=rvi:1:3v_home

Personally, I would rather you have a need to swap rear-ends, because your making too much power for our existing ones.. That would be welcome news.. :nice:

The 2nd guy is actully ridiculous.. He says no shipping.. LOL!! Beat it buddy!

Damn!! Poor Cobra did make it!! Kinda sad! But hot damn, look at that rear-end assembly!! Jesus!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ategory=33731&item=7987246171&sspagename=WDVW

This one is for Duner!! Becareful out there Duner!! Looks like one of your cars siblings had a really horrible fight with somethings.. Not sure what!! LOL!!

I dont know about you guys, but that Cobra rear-end looks really sturdy to me!! Damn, I wonder what the max torqe of that baby is!! I have that much more respect for the 2003 Cobras!! Whooo!! That rear-end is what you call "BaddASS!!"!! Way to go Duner!!
 
#23
The price of that rearend @ 800 bucks seems really good if you can win the bid.. I wonder if the 2005 Mustangs would accept an IRS setup.. I dont see why not, but thats a really spectacular setup IMHO!!

If I were at this point in the developement, I would place a bid of $1000 bucks and let it ride!! Thats just downright awsome!! It really makes you think of how important the rear-end is, when you see all the effort and detail Ford put into that system..
 
#24
you'll spend at least 230 on the LSD for the 7.5" and that isn't counting install. i'd seriously look into whether or not an 05 GT axle would be a direct swap over since it has a good LSD, should bolt right up, and there's a strong possibility the driveshaft would work with it.

the main reason for this being wheel and tire choice. if there is any difference in width of the new GT axle and old it would make getting a new set of rims more plug and play.
 
#25
yeah, now this seems like it is going to be an expensive journey to 300hp N/A. One question though, are you trying to get to 300 at the crank or rear tires? I am no expert here, as I drive an old 92 5.0, but I will tell you this much, 300 to the crank will not be hard, you are already at what 205 from the factory, but if you are trying for 300 at the tires, good luck, i personally don't think P&P heads and cam and intake will get you to that point, maybe, maybe 250 to the wheels, but that's pushing it. stock they are only putting what to the tires, 155-175? and heads cam and intake, you guys think will give you 125hp at the wheels? no way, too many things at that point to factor in. like exhaust, fuel system, tune up, ignition capabilities. I don't think you will hit 300 to the wheels, but then again what do i know. i just was checking this post out because i was interested in your opinions. good luck
 
#27
maybe, but that's alot of money for 300hp. and then what? you will still have a v-6 that now is harder on gas, not as reliable, and more easily broken than before. hince a voided warranty, because although there is a law stating that it will not void your warranty to mod the car, if they can prove that whatever mod you did caused the damage, the warranty is void. trust me on this, the law has a lot of gray area in it, and most dealerships will balk on warranty related items when a car is modified. people's take is well, it's money in the dealer's pocket? that's true, but they make much much more if they can charge you and not Ford Motor Company. No, 300 at the wheels is not impossible, but it's expensive and a risk, only you can decide if you want to take it. tearing down a brand new engine to P&P the heads? that right there will void any head gasket or head related warranty issues if any arise. I am just saying, good luck. I would love to see you guys pull this off, and I'll be checking back periodically, because I will be in the market for a new Mustang soon, and I am leaning towards the v-6 myself because it's cheaper and I am wanting something now to just cruise in. i've had my fun with high hp cars, now it's time to watch everybody else spend that money. me personally, i would take that $3800.00 and buy the Cervinis Eleanor body kit and just chill with a clone of a bad ass ride.
 
#28
Yes its a lot of money for 300hp at the wheels, but a GT is 5000 more base, and only puts about 270hp at the wheels and weighs 200 lbs more. No matter what car you mod to this extent it becomes a risk, even something as high quality as an AMG mercedes. Thats a risk you take. Rule of thumb, dont spend $3800 on modifying an engine, unless you have an extra $3800 to replace it.
 
#29
Very good thread. Unfortunately I don't have time to read it all right now ... but I will soon.

I said way back on July 5th that I thought it was entirely possible to get 300HP out of this block (naturally aspirated) with "relatively" easy mods (CAI, manifold, P/P, cams, headers, exhaust & tune).

The V6 already has quite a bit of torque, all we have to do is get the thing to breathe better so that it revs higher. Then we have high torque + high rpms = big HP.

I think the 2 valve head may be the biggest stumbling block on the road to a 6000+ rpm motor. Hog out the ports and install larger valves?? Aftermarket heads? Hmmmm.
 
#31
LOL!! The more responses that pop up, everyone starts to realize how daunting of a task it seems.. In the short term, I'll just slap on the blower, and see what that yields us.. It seems like the more info which is posted, the farther away 300HP seems..

I'll stick to my blower, and watch as those try to get to 300HP without one.. If I dont get to 300HP, there is no doubt, the car will be alot more fun.. Heck its already fun..

But with all the talk of rear-ends and cams, heads and tunes, i know alot of people are going to be like screw it, I'll just go GT..

Really, I think more is being made of this than it needs to be.. I feel its being purposley made to seem expensive and difficult.. Some may say thats the reality, but until I slap on the blower, I wont give any opinions..

I mean, no one truley knows how the car is going to respond to the blower.. This is all guess work..

I feel the blower is less expensive to get to 300HP than N/A.. With all the seperate components and labor involved with trying to N/A, the blower is by far cheaper.. With the blower, you can do it yourself, except for the tuning part.. All this other stuff for N/A adds tons of labor cost, and hours.. Like the rear-end for example, thats going to be easily build as an 8-10hr job..

Now the rear-end is something I am hoping will hang tough with 300RWHP.. I think the max before things break may be 350 to 400Ft lbs.. But again all guess work..

Also, knowing we have a 7.5 means, just not continuously doing dead stop launches.. Thats what will kill it.. But if you can start from a roll, it wont hurt it and it will last longer..

This is the bottom line guys, we must get the car to 300RWHP with all of our stock components for it to be worth it.. If not, its cheaper just to own the car for a few years and trade it in for a GT, or the GT500.. But if we cant count on 300RWHP with our stock components, then the point is mute..
 
#32
MSP said:
LOL!! The more responses that pop up, everyone starts to realize how daunting of a task it seems.. In the short term, I'll just slap on the blower, and see what that yields us.. It seems like the more info which is posted, the farther away 300HP seems..

I'll stick to my blower, and watch as those try to get to 300HP without one.. If I dont get to 300HP, there is no doubt, the car will be alot more fun.. Heck its already fun..

But with all the talk of rear-ends and cams, heads and tunes, i know alot of people are going to be like screw it, I'll just go GT..

Really, I think more is being made of this than it needs to be.. I feel its being purposley made to seem expensive and difficult.. Some may say thats the reality, but until I slap on the blower, I wont give any opinions..

I mean, no one truley knows how the car is going to respond to the blower.. This is all guess work..

I feel the blower is less expensive to get to 300HP than N/A.. With all the seperate components and labor involved with trying to N/A, the blower is by far cheaper.. With the blower, you can do it yourself, except for the tuning part.. All this other stuff for N/A adds tons of labor cost, and hours.. Like the rear-end for example, thats going to be easily build as an 8-10hr job..

Now the rear-end is something I am hoping will hang tough with 300RWHP.. I think the max before things break may be 350 to 400Ft lbs.. But again all guess work..

Also, knowing we have a 7.5 means, just not continuously doing dead stop launches.. Thats what will kill it.. But if you can start from a roll, it wont hurt it and it will last longer..

This is the bottom line guys, we must get the car to 300RWHP with all of our stock components for it to be worth it.. If not, its cheaper just to own the car for a few years and trade it in for a GT, or the GT500.. But if we cant count on 300RWHP with our stock components, then the point is mute..
Click to expand...

Im going to have to disagree with you here, atleast a little. The methods being discussed as to getting 300 HP N/A arent that unconventional. Not by far. I think most people here dont have much mechanical experience, or even experience in this sort of modification to cars -digging into the engine beyond the universal conventional bolt ons. You're right, however, its being blown out of porportion by a long shot. The fears here about the reliability of the engine, tranny, and possibly rear end are just that as of right now, fears. Im not saying I expect to see the rear end hold up, but I havent seen it NOT as of yet. We dont know the conditions, circumstances, or stress that is going to make it twist. Its going to be very very dangerous for us to try pushing this engine too far without forged internals. But again, we dont know the limits.

I dont think anyone is really buying this car expecting GT performance levels. Those of us who will be choosing this route know what we're getting outselves into better than these others I believe. We're also the ones willing to take these risks, and dance this dangerous game. Also to consider, these things DONT have to be rushed. I want to have this car as long as I possibly can.. Im in no hurry at all to rush into this and be the first at anything. Sure, I would love to be the first sporting a 400hp v6 Mustang, but Im too realistic and broke to expect that. Given the appropiate time I know Ill be smoking GTs left and right, but all in good time. With the time and money we're looking to invest, I have no fears at all that we will be outperforming GTs for less the cost.
 
#33
Hmmmm. I was more inclined to consider this a brainstorming session on the conceivability of obtaining the goal. To get together ideas, costs and some rough plans to see where the cost compares to S/C. If I were serious, I would have to buy the engineering software and another car in case this one broke.

I was not intending of running out to do it. :)

As for the methods. Other than the damn computer issues and a lack of a throttle cable ala' DBW, yes, many of the techniques discussed have been employed by rebuilders and custom fabrication shops for years.

As for the S/C - Yep! Find me a Twin-Screw all inclusive modification package from a reputible mfg. for the 05 V-6 Stang for under $3,800 and I am with you on that.... :)

Shall we continue?

Jennifer
 
#34
Hmmm

fazm83 said:
Most v6's are putting 160-191 at the wheels stock, so to hit 300 at the wheels is quite a feat, but not impossible. I think it would take about $3800 to get there.
Click to expand...


Don't be too sure of this. I just had my BONE STOCK 05 V6 Dyno 216RWHP with nothing more than a custom dyno tune. It's an automatic.
 
#39
You dont find it odd that your peak numbers come at a spike on your dyno chart? You usually have to ignore those spikes. I've seen more than 1 automatic spike at that rpm, they say it has something to do with the torque converter i believe.

If you ignore the spike, you are around 198, which is what most people are gettin after a tune.
 
#40
fazm83 said:
You dont find it odd that your peak numbers come at a spike on your dyno chart? You usually have to ignore those spikes. I've seen more than 1 automatic spike at that rpm, they say it has something to do with the torque converter i believe.

If you ignore the spike, you are around 198, which is what most people are gettin after a tune.
Click to expand...

Yeah I noticed that too. You may be right.
I might email SCT and see what they say.
All I know is that I picked up .4 off my usual time.
 
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