4.10's vs 3.73's

[Mike97gt]

It isn't a slightly higher rpm to the engine. Taking half the rpms at cruise increases the internals dynamic vibration and wears the piston rings down. Would you rather buy a car that has been cruised during it's life at 2,000rpm or 4,000rpm with a 5,800 rpm redline? It isn't pushing harder everything you get up to speed...there is a catch there because to much gear allows for to much "dead time" while your putting it in another gear where with a higher gear your still using the gas to get going instead of being in a "temporary neutral" 2-3x more often...



No, I'm not incorrect. The steeper gears wear out your tranny/clutch components quicker. You have to shift more (especially city driving) which uses your tranny more. To shift you have to depress the clutch pedal and release the pressure plate from the disc. The more you do that the more it wears out. It really is simple. Also under traction the steeper gears will "hit" harder therefore hitting the tranny/clutch disc material harder along with the rear and all. The spring up rate of the engine has progressed the clutch to try to keep up even that much harder and for example, if by chance your clutch is about to go...that might be the straw that breaks the camels back.

your the same guy that won't powershift..

you need too get yourself a ****box 95 taurus too get back in forth too work. . thats what i did.. now i have fun with my stang.

performance cars break.. unless your car is a garage queen that is never ran.. and if you never run please sell and buy a v6. then you can have a stang and not have the uneeded burden of parts breakage.

4.10's is more fun than 3.27's thats why i ordered them.. i would have gotten them a long time ago but i am poor. if it was up too me the mustang would come with 4.10's

4.10's offer improved acceleration. less of a load on the engine so it might last longer. and in real world driving of traffic lights and hills you will get better mileage. load percentage has a bigger impact on mileage than rpm's if you don't belive me get a 96 or newer mustang and use the WDS ( scan tool at ford dealers) and do the fuel economy tests. this gives you a real readout. and you will see how load effects mileage.

highway MPG will drop slightly but around town you will stay the same or gain.

 

[5spd GT]

your the same guy that won't powershift..

Correct, you catch on quick. Don't leave out info though. We were talking about daily drivers and I will not sacrifice a higher mileage tranny to get a 1/10th quicker at the track when it is my only means of transportation. Think about it

you need too get yourself a ****box 95 taurus too get back in forth too work. . thats what i did.. now i have fun with my stang.

Heck no...I want my stang. Not some taurus. You just don't understand do you? Just because one buys a stang doesn't mean they want to rag it out or not take care of it

performance cars break.. unless your car is a garage queen that is never ran.. and if you never run please sell and buy a v6. then you can have a stang and not have the uneeded burden of parts breakage.

Are you kidding? Any car breaks I hope you were being sarcastic. A performance car as you put it has upgraded parts to go with it. A lesser car on the food chain will have less quality parts with it. The ratio of breakage is equal to a lesser or performance car. Think about it...

4.10's is more fun than 3.27's thats why i ordered them.. i would have gotten them a long time ago but i am poor. if it was up too me the mustang would come with 4.10's

I'm proud of you. You do not have them on your car so don't give any "advice". I have several stang buddies with every single gear you can think of. Been in them and drove them. I know my opinion. I don't look at them from a track life but a street/strip life If they came with 4:10's you would see reliability suffer and sales decline. Not just "guys" drive these cars. Many mom's/ladies/teengirls want these cars for the looks or that they can now afford them. Think about it...

4.10's offer improved acceleration. less of a load on the engine so it might last longer. and in real world driving of traffic lights and hills you will get better mileage. load percentage has a bigger impact on mileage than rpm's if you don't belive me get a 96 or newer mustang and use the WDS ( scan tool at ford dealers) and do the fuel economy tests. this gives you a real readout. and you will see how load effects mileage.

Less of a load? Are you kidding again? There is a certain level you reach where the load undermines the higher rpm that is steady. RPM's is directly related to the internals and piston rings. The engine will simply not last as long. Ford put in reliable/fun gears for that purpose and that is why they don't put 4:10's in there because the engine would not last as long. It passes the "load barrier". Bad argument there...

highway MPG will drop slightly but around town you will stay the same or gain.

Not neccesarily...depends on many situations. How much stop and go...or just low mph cruises...way to general there...

 

[5spd GT]

what it does is make the car faster. the engine revs more but works less too move the car so the engine may last LONGER since it is at a lower percentage of load when you are not on it.

Laughable - Do you go around WOT all the time? The higher engine revs overcompensates the load factor.

 

[5spd GT]

4.10's put the engine no where near 4000 rpm range at cruise unless you are regularly cruise at 90mph. Cruising at 75 puts you at 2600 rpm vs. 2400 rpm with 3.73's not that big a difference. You aren't in neutral more often unless you drive around in 3rd all the time. You still have to shift 4 times to get to cruising speed, lowers gears just cause you to shift sooner. Unless you do like I sometimes do, which is shift 1st to 3rd to 5th, which is easier with lower gears.

Did I say that? Nope...they are above 3k for sure though. You would be surprised who cruises near those speeds on the interstate or if in an emergency. What makes you at a more peace of mind? Lower rpms or higher rpms?

That might be a valid argument depending on how you drive. I shift no more often, just sooner, allowing me to cruise at lower speeds in 5th without bogging the engine down. In fact I may shift less due to the fact that I don't have to downshift to speed up.

You will shift more in "in-town" situations...which allows deadspots and less effiecency. You shouldn't have to downshift to speed up. It will accomadate it fine unless your trying to go somewhere in a hurry

Still incorrect. The harder hitting is taking place after the rear end because of the multiplied torque. Dont beleive me, take a car with 3.27 gears and get the car rolling starting in third gear a few times. Then do it with a car with 4.10's and see which one the clutch burns out in first. Another example, on a ten speed bike, which feels harder on your legs, starting off in first or tenth?

Burning out a clutch is a different set of rules there bud. Don't change it up...dumping the clutch at 6k in 3rd gear at a stop isn't going to do any kind of shock except spin that clutch disc on the flywheel/pressure plate. That isn't the point here as you know.

The drivetrain is all connected by somesort of spline. The whole drivetrain becomes "hit" under traction. Just go under the car and see how it all works. That is why you get pinion angle and all that. You have the 10splines on the cluch and the 26 (or whatever) in the driveshaft which is all connected to turn as one. Turn as one - get hit as one.

I've got 80,000+ miles on my engine with 77,000 with 4.10's and the original clutch, and the last compression test I did a few months ago showed around 190 on all cylinders. So I would say I'm not seeing much in the lines of extra wear from the 4.10's

Well I would hope not with that less of miles...not a good example. Take 2 cars over 150-175k miles with every variable being the same except the higher rpms delivered by a steeper gear at cruise and you would be able to tell a difference in the long term. Better to think longterm than shortterm.

 

[Ftony]

5th gear

anymore than 373 youll run out at the end 390 maybe ok not sure but 373 is a safe bet,why have to shift 1 more gear when you dont have too???

 

[Mike97gt]

I'm proud of you. You do not have them on your car so don't give any "advice". I have several stang buddies with every single gear you can think of. Been in them and drove them. I know my opinion. I don't look at them from a track life but a street/strip life If they came with 4:10's you would see reliability suffer and sales decline. Not just "guys" drive these cars. Many mom's/ladies/teengirls want these cars for the looks or that they can now afford them. Think about it...

yeah i don't have them on my car.. you might have had somewhat of a point there except for the fact that i have installed many sets of 4.10's and 3.73 and 3.55's other peopels mustangs. and i have driven serveral cars with 4.10's at the drag strip..

so anyways how many 4.10's have you installed. how many trannies have you rebuilt.. and talking about piston rings.. have you ever seen a ring compressor.

i have.. and i have used them before

some of the guys on the 4.6 tech sec. know that i work on these cars both at a ford dealer durring the day and i do performance work at night on the side. ( for now)

so who is guilty of giving advice without being qualified..

 

[billfisher]

opinionated...me? no way!!!

I just want to say...

my no-over drive 302 lasted many,many YEARS, with 3.73. city driving, 1200 miles to El Paso, Ft worth from TN twice a week drags. I built the motor, to exacting specs not withstanding, and the metal held up fine. the small difference in the two gears (in my opinion) makes no difference to durability. My vote is for REAL gears...4.56. why dike around. ford sells many 5.4 trucks with 4.10 and a warranty. (please be gentle with your replies)

 

[Mike97gt]

Laughable - Do you go around WOT all the time? The higher engine revs overcompensates the load factor.

really. then why does ford install 4.10's on heavy duty pickups with the towing package.. because a numericaly lower gear ratio would increase engine damage due too detonation.. a engine lugging up hill under very high load is prone too destructive detonation.. a numericaly higher ratio allows more of a mechanical advantage.. decreasing the load on the engine..

simple fact is.. load is more damaging too a engine than rpm's load increases the stress on all of the engines parts from the pistons down too the bearings.

detonation never happens in netural with no load right.. now think about it.. when is detonation more likly too occur. at low rpm's at very high load ( such as lugging the engine at low rpm's or driving up hill at low rpm's).. or at high rpm's right after shifting ( this is when the load spikes right after a shift)

now what causes this detonation. well a few things can.. one of the causes is high combustuion chamber temps that cause hot spots.. a engine working hard lugging at low rpms will require you too push harder on the gas pedel too keep the same speed. now this causes the combustion chamber temp too increase because of the added fuel/air mixture too be burned. at a higher rpm the engine load is decreased and at a decreased load you don't burn as much fuel per combustion cycle. yes you have more combustion cycles but it's more under a lot less stress..

 

[billfisher]

huh?

anymore than 373 youll run out at the end 390 maybe ok not sure but 373 is a safe bet,why have to shift 1 more gear when you dont have too???

Auto w/shift kit takes care of lost shift time. (darned non-syncro 3rd-Od sucks) there is a place for autos. (i lose 15 or so HP but gain infinite torque multi ratios)

 

[Mike97gt]

5 spd gt. read post number 106..

 

[billfisher]

if i can just run 8.8 i will eat my car.

 

[jstreet0204]

Did I say that? Nope...they are above 3k for sure though. You would be surprised who cruises near those speeds on the interstate or if in an emergency. What makes you at a more peace of mind? Lower rpms or higher rpms?

Yes you did say that. go back and read post #46 where you used 4000 rpm as an example. Which was obviously an exagerasion just like most of the bad info you are spewing throughout this thread. Now you have changed your example from simply cruising speeds to high speed emergency situations. I think most of us consider cruising speeds a reasonable insterstate speed. 75-80mph. which fall under 3000 rpm.

You will shift more in "in-town" situations...which allows deadspots and less effiecency. You shouldn't have to downshift to speed up. It will accomadate it fine unless your trying to go somewhere in a hurry

Funny, if that were true then why have many people reported and actual increase in city gas mileage. Because you aren't lugging the engine as much in stop and go situations. As far as shifting more, it depends on the driver. I shift less because I don't have to downshift as much even in stop and go traffic. Example, if I slow down to a creep I don't have to downshift to first to get it going again.

Burning out a clutch is a different set of rules there bud. Don't change it up...dumping the clutch at 6k in 3rd gear at a stop isn't going to do any kind of shock except spin that clutch disc on the flywheel/pressure plate. That isn't the point here as you know.

I didn't say dump the clutch in third. I said get it moving in third. I can do it with 4.10's if I ease into it. Clutch won't last doing that with stock gears.

The drivetrain is all connected by somesort of spline. The whole drivetrain becomes "hit" under traction. Just go under the car and see how it all works. That is why you get pinion angle and all that. You have the 10splines on the cluch and the 26 (or whatever) in the driveshaft which is all connected to turn as one. Turn as one - get hit as one.

I am well aware of how it all works. You are correct. They get hit as one. BUT the forces are greater on that hit with stock gears than 4.10s. If you put slicks on two cars, one with stock gears, one with 4.10's, the car with the stock gears will be more likely to break a tranny during that hit. The car with 4.10's will be more than likely to break an axle. This is not opinion, this is fact.

Well I would hope not with that less of miles...not a good example. Take 2 cars over 150-175k miles with every variable being the same except the higher rpms delivered by a steeper gear at cruise and you would be able to tell a difference in the long term. Better to think longterm than shortterm.

Bottom line is that yes, if friction from the extra rpms were the only determining factor in the longevity of an engine, then you would be correct, but it isn't. The load on an engine plays a just as big a part in it, and 4.10's gears reduce that load. This is not opinion this is fact and can easily be proven by dataloging the load% from the eec during normal driving conditions.
You are welcome to your opinions about which gear is best for you, but don't blur the facts like you have been.

 

[Bulldog Stang]

I think that this thread is a little over kill and has turned more into a debate than anything.

The point is that there are Different Strokes for Different Folks!!!!!!

Choose what ever gear you want. Some people prefer the 3.73 gears, especially for the Supercharged Cars, and some people prefer the 4.10 gears for you basic 4.6 GT or Mach 1 Motor.

Get what ever the hell that you want. See if you have friends that have a Stang with the 3.73's and test drive it. Find another friend with 4.10's and test drive that one.... Go with what ever you feel like going with.

As a 3.73 and 4.10 owner, having both in the car, I prefer the 4.10's. I snapped 6 teeth off of the 3.73's at Fun Ford Weekend in Houston, back in April. I then purchased a set of 4.10's to replace them. I am now glad that I have the 4.10's, they dropped my 1/4 Mile time (along with new Drag Radials) about 4/10's of a sec.

As for City Driving, if you want to stay off the mofo, and conserve, Start in 2nd gear and then 4th and then 5th, that way you dont rev as high and conserve a little petro.

Just my .02 Cents

 

[Mike97gt]

I think that this thread is a little over kill and has turned more into a debate than anything.

The point is that there are Different Strokes for Different Folks!!!!!!

Choose what ever gear you want. Some people prefer the 3.73 gears, especially for the Supercharged Cars, and some people prefer the 4.10 gears for you basic 4.6 GT or Mach 1 Motor.

Get what ever the hell that you want. See if you have friends that have a Stang with the 3.73's and test drive it. Find another friend with 4.10's and test drive that one.... Go with what ever you feel like going with.

As a 3.73 and 4.10 owner, having both in the car, I prefer the 4.10's. I snapped 6 teeth off of the 3.73's at Fun Ford Weekend in Houston, back in April. I then purchased a set of 4.10's to replace them. I am now glad that I have the 4.10's, they dropped my 1/4 Mile time (along with new Drag Radials) about 4/10's of a sec.

As for City Driving, if you want to stay off the mofo, and conserve, Start in 2nd gear and then 4th and then 5th, that way you dont rev as high and conserve a little petro.

Just my .02 Cents

true different strokes for different folks. but he is tring too get people not too buy a gear for BS reasons. 4.10's are a very good gear.. 3.73's are good too. but he is just misguided.

plus now i am pissed about the comment he made about how i don't have gears on my car so my advice is unwanted.. i bet he will think next time before he throws around the "you don't own this" arugument.

i still want too know how many rear ends has he rebuilt? how many trannies..

 

[Bulldog Stang]

true different strokes for different folks. but he is tring too get people not too buy a gear for BS reasons. 4.10's are a very good gear.. 3.73's are good too. but he is just misguided.

plus now i am pissed about the comment he made about how i don't have gears on my car so my advice is unwanted.. i bet he will think next time before he throws around the "you don't own this" arugument.

i still want too know how many rear ends has he rebuilt? how many trannies..

Yeah I hear ya.

 

[Mike97gt]

he has not come back too post yet

 

[forpit2000gt]

anymore than 373 youll run out at the end 390 maybe ok not sure but 373 is a safe bet,why have to shift 1 more gear when you dont have too???

If you are running the car at the track and getting above 112 mph at the end, go to a 28 inch tire and the problem is gone. This is not a problem on the street with street tires.

 

[forpit2000gt]

really. then why does ford install 4.10's on heavy duty pickups with the towing package.. because a numericaly lower gear ratio would increase engine damage due too detonation.. a engine lugging up hill under very high load is prone too destructive detonation.. a numericaly higher ratio allows more of a mechanical advantage.. decreasing the load on the engine..

simple fact is.. load is more damaging too a engine than rpm's load increases the stress on all of the engines parts from the pistons down too the bearings.

detonation never happens in netural with no load right.. now think about it.. when is detonation more likly too occur. at low rpm's at very high load ( such as lugging the engine at low rpm's or driving up hill at low rpm's).. or at high rpm's right after shifting ( this is when the load spikes right after a shift)

now what causes this detonation. well a few things can.. one of the causes is high combustuion chamber temps that cause hot spots.. a engine working hard lugging at low rpms will require you too push harder on the gas pedel too keep the same speed. now this causes the combustion chamber temp too increase because of the added fuel/air mixture too be burned. at a higher rpm the engine load is decreased and at a decreased load you don't burn as much fuel per combustion cycle. yes you have more combustion cycles but it's more under a lot less stress..

Where do you get this info?? The diameter of the tires on a truck is larger than a car. That his the main reason for a larger gear. If the engine is running correctly, there shouldn't be detonation, it has nothing to do with rpm. You will get lugging at low rpms.
If a truck had a tire diameter of 26 inches it would have 3.27 from the factory, maybe 3.55. The truck engines also have a different power curve, because they have a different purpose than cars.

 

[5spd GT]

yeah i don't have them on my car.. you might have had somewhat of a point there except for the fact that i have installed many sets of 4.10's and 3.73 and 3.55's other peopels mustangs. and i have driven serveral cars with 4.10's at the drag strip..

So installing them means you know what they do to engines? So you drove them at the drag strip eh? Yeah that is what your average daily driver does

so anyways how many 4.10's have you installed. how many trannies have you rebuilt.. and talking about piston rings.. have you ever seen a ring compressor.

So installing gears makes you know what they do to the engine dynamics? So rebuilding a tranny lets you know the damage it can do? I have actually messed with a t45...and yes a piston ring compressor is an easy one So what is your point?

i have.. and i have used them before

So proud - So proud.

some of the guys on the 4.6 tech sec. know that i work on these cars both at a ford dealer durring the day and i do performance work at night on the side. ( for now)

"performance work" eh? Yeah that is daily driver worthy...I don't think your getting the point. There is a difference between the drag strip and a 2-lane highway. Right?

so who is guilty of giving advice without being qualified..

You?

 

[5spd GT]

really. then why does ford install 4.10's on heavy duty pickups with the towing package.. because a numericaly lower gear ratio would increase engine damage due too detonation.. a engine lugging up hill under very high load is prone too destructive detonation.. a numericaly higher ratio allows more of a mechanical advantage.. decreasing the load on the engine..

That is a horrible example: Do mustangs have towing packages? Is their market a "work truck"? I'll let you answer that and defend on that one A horrible example...your not to good at this. Many more variables.

simple fact is.. load is more damaging too a engine than rpm's load increases the stress on all of the engines parts from the pistons down too the bearings.

No, that isn't the simple fact...there are many more variables. With the aero/power/lighter weight of the stangs the stock gears like the 3:27's match very well to compensate against those factors and are matched accordingly. They aren't called Ford Engineers for a reason. Lot's of research.

detonation never happens in netural with no load right.. now think about it.. when is detonation more likly too occur. at low rpm's at very high load ( such as lugging the engine at low rpm's or driving up hill at low rpm's).. or at high rpm's right after shifting ( this is when the load spikes right after a shift)

The factory timing allows for the car to floored at a very low rpm and it keeps damaging detonation from occuring. You start modding...you start messing with the "safety factor". From the factory is what were talking about here. So what is your point?

now what causes this detonation. well a few things can.. one of the causes is high combustuion chamber temps that cause hot spots.. a engine working hard lugging at low rpms will require you too push harder on the gas pedel too keep the same speed. now this causes the combustion chamber temp too increase because of the added fuel/air mixture too be burned. at a higher rpm the engine load is decreased and at a decreased load you don't burn as much fuel per combustion cycle. yes you have more combustion cycles but it's more under a lot less stress..

In your terms...the more combustion cycles the more up and down movement from the pistons which is the piston rings against the cylinder wall. Think about it. The detonation is not in question here...you like to change up some things

The steeper gear causes more engine wear. I can't believe your even trying to debate it