BOSS 302 - How could you let it get like this?

Goldenboss said:
I'm not trying to argue (kind of hard to argue over a computer, no matter how hard I hit the keys its not like you can feel it on your end anyway) I was just trying to set the record straight. What makes the subject even more messy is that you could order a BOSS Cougar and get oil cooler as a option listed on the invoice as Darg pak. One other thing to remember is the Drag pak or Super Drag pak option on Mach 1's also included a different crank and rods plus I think one other thing that I can't think of.


crank, rods and forged pistons were what made up an SCJ car. but the engine upgrades wern't included in the drag pak option. what happened was if drag pak option on your 428 cj car the drag pak REQUIRED that the engine be upgraded to the SCJ specs. the reason the boss cars didn't have to upgrade the engine internals with HD rods, forged pistons and better crank was that they already had the best internals already. for the record i'm not trying to argue with you either i just get frustrated when people say the drag pak option was not available on the boss cars when in actuality it was. i have seen original literature that stated the drag pak was available on the boss cars. but it's like what we just talked about with the scj cars and teh engine internals. most people will say that to get the drag pak option you had to have some sort of engine upgrade package. you could also get the drag pak on the boss 351 exactly the same as the boss 302. i wonder if the boss 351 drag pak option shows up on the marti report.
 
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bnickel said:
crank, rods and forged pistons were what made up an SCJ car. but the engine upgrades wern't included in the drag pak option. what happened was if drag pak option on your 428 cj car the drag pak REQUIRED that the engine be upgraded to the SCJ specs. the reason the boss cars didn't have to upgrade the engine internals with HD rods, forged pistons and better crank was that they already had the best internals already. for the record i'm not trying to argue with you either i just get frustrated when people say the drag pak option was not available on the boss cars when in actuality it was. i have seen original literature that stated the drag pak was available on the boss cars. but it's like what we just talked about with the scj cars and teh engine internals. most people will say that to get the drag pak option you had to have some sort of engine upgrade package. you could also get the drag pak on the boss 351 exactly the same as the boss 302. i wonder if the boss 351 drag pak option shows up on the marti report.


I'd like to see this literature you are taliking about, or at least a link. I have 'written' evidence that the BOSS 302 Mustang did not have the option to get the 'option'..i.e...DRAG PAK.

As a BOSS 302 Mustang owner, and as someone who feels its imperative to keep the TRUE history of these cars intact, and not deluded by inaccurate information, i feel that correcting inaccuracies on this car is worth the effort.

http://www.428cobrajet.org/cj-vs-scj.html

scroll down to 1970 price list...'not available on BOSS 302'
 
Question:

The equipment commonly called "Drag Pack", wasn't those options (oil cooler, stag shocks, etc.) standard issue if the buyer opted for 3.91 or 4:30 gears? I have seen BOSS 302's with the oil cooler, Stag shocks, etc with the taller gears, but not with the standard 3:25 or optional 3:50 gears. I think the name has been associated with that equipment as a carryover from the SCJ's, but never officially used in the BOSS 302's.
 
chepsk8 said:
Question:

The equipment commonly called "Drag Pack", wasn't it standard issue if the buyer opted for 3.91 or 4:30 gears? I have seen BOSS 302's with the oil cooler, Stag shocks, etc with the taller gears, but not with the standard 3:25 or optional 3:50 gears.

not always. There are documented 430 cars without coolers, and they appear to be original.

BOSS 302 Mustangs had staggard shocks as standard.

The argument is not IF these cars came from factory with this equipment, the argument is in the nomenclature being used inaccuratley, as to date, there has not been one owner come forward with an INVOICE showing DRAG PACK as an option ordered and paid for.
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I used to have a 69 boss 302.. original. Original paint and stripes, original interior that was like brand new, original rims.. everything... all it was missing was the motor and tranny.. DAMN lol
 
TheChevyEater said:
I used to have a 69 boss 302.. original. Original paint and stripes, original interior that was like brand new, original rims.. everything... all it was missing was the motor and tranny.. DAMN lol


do you have the VIN #?....i can look it up to see if it was registered and/or still around...

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BADBOSS said:
I'd like to see this literature you are taliking about, or at least a link. I have 'written' evidence that the BOSS 302 Mustang did not have the option to get the 'option'..i.e...DRAG PAK.

As a BOSS 302 Mustang owner, and as someone who feels its imperative to keep the TRUE history of these cars intact, and not deluded by inaccurate information, i feel that correcting inaccuracies on this car is worth the effort.

http://www.428cobrajet.org/cj-vs-scj.html

scroll down to 1970 price list...'not available on BOSS 302'


no i'm talking original ford literature, it may have been the salesmans guide or something else like that quick reference guide or something. i don't own any of that literature so i can't tell you for sure exactly what it was. BTW, who cares if it shows up on an invoice, if there was some piece of paper back in the day that described the option as the drag pak that's all that matters, granted it would help if i could remember what that was, but the fact is i didn't publish the literature Ford did.

did you know that most or at least a great many 69 GT's have a factory stamped opening in the hood under the hood scoop, that on most cars got covered up by some adhesive backed aluminum foil type sheet, the opening was basically the "pie-cut" or wedge cut opening with the entire circumference of that opening stamped out fro the factory? it was supposed to be for some sort of ram air option that ford had planned for the 69 GT's but for whatever reason never materialized, be it supplier problems, bean counter problems whatever. there is absolutely no literature on this unrealized option and most MCA judges will tell the owner of the car that some previous owner cut that hood out from the wedge cut hoods and tell them that for the car to be considered correct they have to replace the hood with one that has no opening stamped in it. were you aware of that piece of history for our cars? that doesn't show up on any invoice either and never will.

point is that just because it is not listed on the invoice does not mean it was not offered or was not mentioned in some piece of litertature somewhere or that somewhere down the line something happenend and ford never followed through. invoices and marti reports are not gospel they are merely guidelines, albeit very good guidelines but not absolute and final. there is nothing about these cars that is absolute and final and anyone who says they are will soon be proven a liar.
 
quote:point is that just because it is not listed on the invoice does not mean it was not offered or was not mentioned in some piece of litertature somewhere or that somewhere down the line something happenend and ford never followed through. invoices and marti reports are not gospel they are merely guidelines, albeit very good guidelines but not absolute and final. there is nothing about these cars that is absolute and final and anyone who says they are will soon be proven a liar.

Well i am open minded, and realize the truth of your statement....but....the question remains, and the proof has not surfaced, and until that happens the fact is BOSS 302 MUSTANGS >DID NOT< come with the DRAG PACK option. Saying so doesn't make it so., and people who advertise these cars for sale as DRAG PACKS are in fact...ahem...stretching the truth, and deluding the true history. Makes me wonder why..for sure its a 'flashy' term, and grabs ones attention, and has the WOW factor..again...makes me wonder why....


By the way, that 1970 price list i provided showing the DRAG PACK NOT AVAILABLE for BOSS 302, is ford literature...
 
chepsk8 said:
Question:

The equipment commonly called "Drag Pack", wasn't those options (oil cooler, stag shocks, etc.) standard issue if the buyer opted for 3.91 or 4:30 gears? I have seen BOSS 302's with the oil cooler, Stag shocks, etc with the taller gears, but not with the standard 3:25 or optional 3:50 gears. I think the name has been associated with that equipment as a carryover from the SCJ's, but never officially used in the BOSS 302's.

As BadBOSS (Hello mr BJ) said BOSS 302's had staggered (There have been some very early production BOSS cars documented that didn't have them) shocks standard. No BOSS 302 had 3.25 gears, Standard was 3.50 open. To date the BOSS 302 website has been able to verify 2 cars 3.91 gears that had the oil cooler. Also there are 4.30 cars that don't have the oil cooler. Also on page 38 of the 1970 Specifications manual under performance option list it list " Axle, Drag pack (N.A. w/BOSS 302, optional only with 428 CID V8's 3.91 and 4.30 Axle Ratios"

As BadBoss said there is no dispute that there were BOSS 302 Mustang's that had a oil cooler from the factory, but for the prices that these cars are going for today saying your car has a drag pack when there is no evidence to back it up is wrong and misleading.
 
Well showing my age,:p

There very well could be drag pak Boss 302's out there.
Back in those times you could have the dealer install the factory options
on just about anything.
You could Order/buy an Boss, then have the parts counter order the drag pak.
the service department would install them on your car.
Thats why the invoice is important.
True, the factory Did Not offer it. But Salesmen could get it done.:D
And back then the Factory would still cover the warrenty, But only if the dealer installed the packages.

PB
 
pabear89 said:
Well showing my age,:p

There very well could be drag pak Boss 302's out there.
Back in those times you could have the dealer install the factory options
on just about anything.
You could Order/buy an Boss, then have the parts counter order the drag pak.
the service department would install them on your car.
Thats why the invoice is important.
True, the factory Did Not offer it. But Salesmen could get it done.:D
And back then the Factory would still cover the warrenty, But only if the dealer installed the packages.

PB
Again neither BadBoss or I are not saying that there were no oil cooler equipped BOSS 302 Mustangs. In fact Mr. BADBoss has a owner installed oil cooler on his 3.91 equipped BOSS. Does that make it a Drag pack? NO. It's just another one of those popcicle colored cars with a oil cooler added.
 
pabear89 said:
Well showing my age,:p

There very well could be drag pak Boss 302's out there.
Back in those times you could have the dealer install the factory options
on just about anything.
You could Order/buy an Boss, then have the parts counter order the drag pak.
the service department would install them on your car.
Thats why the invoice is important.
True, the factory Did Not offer it. But Salesmen could get it done.:D
And back then the Factory would still cover the warrenty, But only if the dealer installed the packages.

PB

ok, lets take it to this level. My car was restored in 1983, given 391 gears, oil cooler...is this a bonofide DRAG PACK?...is my car worth more or less than a car given these items 'back in the day'?...makes no difference?...is my car any less special than a factory cooler car?...

You see guys, the only reason certain people are trying to get these cars 'certified' as DRAG PACKS is for that almighty dollar at the expense of true history. Nothing wrong in making a buck, but i gotta tell ya this not good for the hobby. As i said, research is still ongoing and not final.

Thanks Vince!...you should see what i've done to it now!...hehehe!

also, we're off topic, so therefore i'm done. Thanks for the chat.
 
pabear89 said:
Yes the dealer installed cars are worth more with the invoice. Restored in 83, The only given to the real worth is did it include the added drag pak components on that invoice?

Anything else should be worded as Drag Pak added.

PB


on my invoice there is no mention of drag pack,coolers, gears, and i might add there are no other invoices with this on them either. Dealer or otherwise, that have surfaced. Although, some cars with coolers have only'optional axle' as a possible identifier, but that still does not justify DRAG PACK being used, although as i said, integrity goes out the window now with high end cars today.
 
pabear89 said:
If you have the Original dealers Sales contract,
It may have been worded as Service Order#........ included
on the purchaser's copy.

This would make it a Dealer installed Factory option'd car,
Not one of the Ford Motor registered number car's produced.

PB


hmmm....so all we have to do is find an original owner of a BOSS 302 Mustang who had the dealer install gears and cooler...AND kept all the paperwork...or at least sold it and transferred the paper work to new owner...and hopefully none of this paperwork was forged...

anyone?...

this is why the invoice AND marti reports are so valuable.
 
BADBOSS said:
hmmm....so all we have to do is find an original owner of a BOSS 302 Mustang who had the dealer install gears and cooler...AND kept all the paperwork...or at least sold it and transferred the paper work to new owner...and hopefully none of this paperwork was forged...

anyone?...

this is why the invoice AND marti reports are so valuable.


ok, well i don't know about the 70 cars. the info i was referring to was for the 69's i'm pretty sure. either way i don't care if the "optional axle ratio" and oil cooler stuff on the invoice actually says "drag pak" or not that's what it is it can be justified either way i suppose so i guess we'll just say by your thinking it's not a drag pak and by mine it is. either way i don't own a boss nor will i ever with the prices the way they are, so i guess it really doesn't matter all that much to me what you boss guys want to call it. bottom line is i know i'm right and you can argue with me until your blue in the face and it won't make a damn bit of difference and by the same token you're right and i can argue with you until i'm blue in the face and it stil won't make any difference
 
For those altruistic few who are out to defend the truth and integrity of the history of the Boss 302 you need to tell the whole story.

You fail to mention that oil cooler equipped cars came with a unique engine code (300B) and most with a 4:30 rearend and a Detroit Locker. Coincidently a Cougar with those same features, which you had to pay for, by your own admission, is called a Drag-Pak car.

Is a car that came from the factory with these options worth more than one that had them installed later by an owner? That’s a decision a buyer gets to make. Is a car that came from the factory more unique than a post delivery installation, I happen to think so.
 
ShannonW said:
For those altruistic few who are out to defend the truth and integrity of the history of the Boss 302 you need to tell the whole story.

You fail to mention that oil cooler equipped cars came with a unique engine code (300B) and most with a 4:30 rearend and a Detroit Locker. Coincidently a Cougar with those same features, which you had to pay for, by your own admission, is called a Drag-Pak car.

Is a car that came from the factory with these options worth more than one that had them installed later by an owner? That’s a decision a buyer gets to make. Is a car that came from the factory more unique than a post delivery installation, I happen to think so.

Shannon, thankyou for your comments, and i fear i'm starting to appear argumentative, and for that i apologize. Afterall, we are all Mustang lovers to some degree, and share a common bond.

Yes, you are correct in what you say, but the question still remains. Why did FORD/MERCURY and FORD decide to put the DRAG PACK on invoices for the COUGAR and not the BOSS 302 Mustang?...lots of speculation on this and i have decided to accept that FORD didn't want this term applied to the B2 Mustang as they were activly campaigning in the Trans-Am, and didn't want the car to be associated with drag racing....or someone in the office was too lazy to type it in...lol!...

Again, thanks to all who gave their input on this, its a very interesting topic at times, and does get a little intense...

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