Fuel Pump Eccentric not Engaging Cam Dowl Pin ?

[3spd on floor]

hey guys

motor is a roller block 5.0, cam is a TFS stage 1. the timing cover, fuel pump eccentric, etc is from a 66 289.

now the problem is that the dowl pin in the front of the cam is not long enough to extend out past the face of the cam gear and into the hole on the eccentric. i used the longer of the two pins that was supplied with the cam, cause it said that was the one for an early model. the eccentric kinda just barely touches the pin, and is appearing to hold tightly.

do i need to pull this out and get a longer pin? or will i be ok? and if i do need to pull it out, how should i go about doing that?


thanks in advance,

TJ

 

[RMODEL65]

get a longer pin do u have a non roller cam laying around? this is what keeps the excentric in place if it starts to move the bolt will loosen also! just pull the pin out of the old one!

 

[67coupe351w]

Isn't the dowel supposed to be short and a tab on the ecentric insertsinto the hole?

This is how I've seen it on several engines including my own.

 

[mikemustang289]

you have a one piece eccentric, due NOT put the egine together with a 5.0 timing chain set.

If you are using an early timing cover you must use an early timing chain set.

The timing chain gears from roller motors are thicker, that is why your pin is still too short.

If you try to use a roller timing set with an early mechanical fuel pump timing cover the fuel pump eccentric will contact the timing cover and you will have shavings of aluminum everywhere.

Get the right timing chain set and your pin will work fine.

 

[iskwezm]

most cams come with 2 pins, one for a timing chain and one for a timing chain/eccentric

 

[ashford]

use a 2 piece eccentric its slightly narrower and has a tab that goes into the timing gear pin hole.

 

[3spd on floor]

well i just checked the thickness of the old gear to the new gear, and sure enough its about .050 thicker. so i need a new timing set or a two piece eccentric, and either way the dowel pin needs to come out.

so how the heck to i pull the dowel pin out? its stuck in there good.

 

[3spd on floor]

well i managed to finagle the pin out. so as for the clearance thing between the eccentric and the timing cover, i put just the cam gear and eccentric on the cam, without the dowel pin, and bolted the timing cover in place. i can reach inside the cover and turn the pulley, and there appears to be no interference, and with a light i can see that it has about .01 to .02 clearance. is this enough or should i either get the two piece eccentric since its narrower, or should i mill .02 - .03 off the front of the eccentric?


thanks again guys.

-TJ

 

[D.Hearne]

you have a one piece eccentric, due NOT put the egine together with a 5.0 timing chain set.

If you are using an early timing cover you must use an early timing chain set.

The timing chain gears from roller motors are thicker, that is why your pin is still too short.

If you try to use a roller timing set with an early mechanical fuel pump timing cover the fuel pump eccentric will contact the timing cover and you will have shavings of aluminum everywhere.

Get the right timing chain set and your pin will work fine.

Not true. The earliest small block timing gears used an even thinner gear than the later 60's to 90's gears, they also used a spacer washer to align it with the crank. In the 70's Ford switch the eccentrics to a 2 pc stamped steel unit with a tab that engaged the hole in the gear. This was when they also used the shorter gear pin. The gear stayed the same thickness till the end of production. The pin needs to fit flush with the eccentric face, if using the older cast eccentric.

 

[3spd on floor]

D.Hearne is correct on this. I measured the timing sets again more closely this time, from the surface that touches the crank to the surface that touches the eccentric, and they were exactly the same. So I just bolted everything together with a slightly longer dowel, and viola, no rubbing on the front cover.

with the gasket thickness, there is probably 50 to 60 thousanths clearance in there, plenty if you ask me.

 

[D.Hearne]

D.Hearne is correct on this. I measured the timing sets again more closely this time, from the surface that touches the crank to the surface that touches the eccentric, and they were exactly the same. So I just bolted everything together with a slightly longer dowel, and viola, no rubbing on the front cover.

with the gasket thickness, there is probably 50 to 60 thousanths clearance in there, plenty if you ask me.

Well I was refering to the rest, not the eccentric/timing cover issue. As far as I've read, there ARE some timing covers that don't work with the older eccentrics. I've never had this trouble, but there's been others that had. The problem there is the timing cover internal dimensions not the eccentrics.

 

[tylerrocks]

this is why I went with an electric fuel pump.

Tyler

 

[mustangman1974]

If you go to an engin builder you can buy the 2 piece kit, and still use the orginal front cover. Thats what I did. The older ecentric is way to think and thats why it will not align right.

 

[xoxbxfx]

i have to say an electric fuel pump would have been a ton easier than changing a timing gear set

 

[LONN17]

Which One?

Trying to finish up the car and I am currently finalizing the cam swap. I have the Comp Cams #2120 timing set on my 289. I am running the ford racing timing cover with this. I want to make sure I get this eccetric correct. The dowl does not protrude from the cam timing gear to engage the eccentric.

Do I need a longer dowel or a different eccentric. I think the one I have is a one piece but cannot find pictures of the two different ones. Anyone have pics. The instructions say to run the FORD C3AZ-6287-B. Please help, I want to drive my car soon.

Thanks,
Trevor

 

[mikemustang289]

a longer dowel pin may be needed. When I swapped to a roller cam the dowel pins that were supplied were not correct. the longest one did not sit flush with the the eccentric. All I did was find a small washer and inserted it into the cam first then put the dowel pin in after it to make it stick out farther. This solved my problem and now the dowl pin sits flush with the eccentric. To do this "correctly" you should get the right length pin. I admit I half assed this one but there is no where for that pin to go and it still protruded into the cam plenty; I just didn't have the time to run around town looking for a longer pin.

 

[dennis112]

The instructions say to run the FORD C3AZ-6287-B.

The FORD C3AZ-6287-B would be the one piece eccentric. The 2 piece didn't come out until several years later.

You just need a longer pin to run the one you have.

Post a picture of the eccentric you have and we can tell you what you have. I've got a 2 pc one around here to compare it to.

 

[LONN17]

Thanks for the info guys. Main question is: where does one go about getting a longer dowel pin? I'll use a little washer if necessary but would rather do it the right way.

Trevor

 

[BarnStang]

It would be far easier to come up with a 2 piece eccentric. Had this very problem a month ago. Someone had assemble the motor with a broken pin! (Why won't this thing pump any fuel????)WHat a pain. Had to tear the thing apart in the car all painted and sealed. i got a pin from a cam on the motor pile and found a 2 piece eccentric. I found that with the correct pin, the tab on the eccentric should just reach the pin when the pin is seated in the cam all the way. Perfect fit. I understand now from the previous posts that to go the other way, I would have had to change the timing gear set. All makes sense now...Thanks! Hope that helps.

 

[gandl2123]

I've just ran into this same issue and plan a different not mentioned route. I have a 65 Mustang with a C9OE 69 Torino 302 block with 65 289 heads. I've changed the timing chain set and now the pin on the camshaft protrudes about 3/4's of the way through the cam gear when the came gear is all the way rearward. I have the one piece eccentric and there seems to be a bit of a small 1/8 to 3/16 hole leading to the pin that I can exploit. I want to take a hardened bolt of the appropriate PIN SIZE and weld a stub of sorts to the bottom of the eccentric. That way I can place the eccentric into position with the stub into the hole and then place the bolt and washer down on the cam gear and tighten her down. The welded stub should act as a PIN and allow for operation of the fuel pump.

Doing it this way won't require the removal of the gear. How does this sound to all of you? Tks