EFI: Super Victor and throttle body

[gonzothegreat]

EFI:Edelbrock intake and throttle body

Hi guys,

I have decided to go EFI, using MegaSquirt.
My choice of intake is an Edelbrock Super Victor modified for EFI, or a Victor jnr.

I need some help on the throttle body.
I was lookin on ebay for some, and I have the choice between that style:

4 barrel throttle body
or
adapt something like that style:

What would be the best to use, aslo looking into spending the less as it will be a "DIY" job (not cutting corner, just going down the route of saving $$$)


your help is much appreciated.
Thanks
Stephane

 

[Bullitt]

depends on how you want to do your air filter. classic round or "modern". you can buy an elbow from CHP that lets you run a 5.0 throttle body in a position similar to that 4.6 TB you have shown.

for my car i'd originally decided to run a megasquirt, actually built the computer, made a harness, installed it all in the car and had issues with the computer.

now i'm putting a 5.0 mass air system on the car. a much better solution in my opinion.

just some advice from someone who's been down that road.

 

[gonzothegreat]

do you have any pictures of your system?

I forgot to ask, do you think I could modify my Performer RPM intake, or do I need to change it?

 

[steel1212]

I personally would go with the top one. That would just be from a looks stand point. If I could go efi and still look like a carb with out anybody knowing I would consider that.

 

[gonzothegreat]

I am considering installing the fuel injector on the sides on the intake, I believe it's called a spider style (not sure about the name)

 

[Bullitt]

do you have any pictures of your system?

in progress... pictures later. i do have pictures of the car with a 4 barrel accel setup like you are considering.

you "can" modify a performer RPM, but it won't work well. you really need a single plane manifold for individual runner fuel injection. if you did a throttle body injection system you could stay with the performer RPM.

 

[5.0ina66]

The Wieand Excellerator or Edelbrock TorkerII both work really well in SBF Megasquirt apps. Would you be putting the injectors in the runners or using a 4bbl throttle body? Either way I'd run a 4bbl throttle body for looks (works well too!), in either a port injected or TBI setup.

 

[jbuening]

I've been looking at these for quite some time. They also sell the elbow to hook up the normal throttle bodies but i'd go with the accel like in your first picture. Hood clearance should be watched though, cause this intake looks like the Vic Jr which is high rise. Not sure on the height of the throttle body though. My mach is my daily driver so converting to EFI just isn't in the picture right now

 

[gonzothegreat]

thanks for the eBay link, I think I am going to adapt my RPM performer for the DIY job trying to save cash on the EFI conversion

 

[Bullitt]

unless you have access to a machine shop i'd recommend against it.

how are you going to cut the injector pockets? you can buy bungs to epoxy in, or you can buy a tool from Kinsler to cut the pockets (tool is like $200). then you have to do a fuel rail unless you individually plumb each injector and then you still have to make a fuel rail to plumb those 8 lines into 1 or 2 feed lines (you'll go broke on fittings).

and on top of that you're still injecting a dual-plane manifold which really won't work all that well (tuning nightmare).

if you want to keep the performer, your best bet is going to be throttle body injection.

 

[rhyno9]

I've been looking at these for quite some time.

One of the problems with them is the fuel rails are unavailable at this time. At least that is what I had found with regard to a 351w.

 

[gonzothegreat]

unless you have access to a machine shop i'd recommend against it.

how are you going to cut the injector pockets? you can buy bungs to epoxy in, or you can buy a tool from Kinsler to cut the pockets (tool is like $200). then you have to do a fuel rail unless you individually plumb each injector and then you still have to make a fuel rail to plumb those 8 lines into 1 or 2 feed lines (you'll go broke on fittings).

and on top of that you're still injecting a dual-plane manifold which really won't work all that well (tuning nightmare).

if you want to keep the performer, your best bet is going to be throttle body injection.

I have access to a good machine shop.
As for the dual plane, I was thinking of removing the separation wall inside

 

[Is1BadFord]

The separation wall isn't really the issue I'm thinking. With a single plane intake, you have a large open plenum that all the SIMILAR sized/shaped runners draw from. The key there is that tuning for each runner is similar. No odd twists and bends from one bank to the other. With a dual plane, airflow to each bank is different. Not necessarily a different amount, but I'm betting money that you have all kinds of different velocities going on in there. Any reasonably priced ECU doesn't tune from port to port, they tune bank to bank and rely on little or no variance in port flow and velocity from side to side to average injector pulses etc. I can't see a dual plane intake really working there.

You can buy a nice Victor Jr. styled single plane off Ebay for in the 150$ range if you really want to drill it yourself. These intakes are very uniform at the port area, and some already have a pad where injectors can be drilled (often this is for nitrous, but it's nice for us EFI guys). Your dual plane is going to make drilling and installing injectors a real pain, not to mention the tuning headaches later. Plus, a Performer RPM isn't the best flowing intake going right now. Even an air gap offers substantial increases in that dpt, along with other benefits.

My advice? Go with the predrilled Victor Jr. Injector bungs are about 60$ for eight, then the cost of having them epoxied/welded (I wouldn't use epoxy btw) makes the 299$ price tag worth it. The fuel rail isn't that difficult to make, and even if you couldn't make them the rails from many other companies will fit as port spacing is port spacing on a SBF. You're saving yourself mass headaches, and not really spending much more money than you would have any other way.

Oh, as for a Super Victor...the Victor Jr's are making upwards of 600hp on quite a few SBF's I've read about, even more on occasion (go to www.massfloefi.com, they're making over 800hp from what I understand). You'd need one wild as all hell combo to need a Super Victor =).

Hope this helps!

 

[5.0ina66]

The separation wall isn't really the issue I'm thinking. With a single plane intake, you have a large open plenum that all the SIMILAR sized/shaped runners draw from. The key there is that tuning for each runner is similar. No odd twists and bends from one bank to the other. With a dual plane, airflow to each bank is different. Not necessarily a different amount, but I'm betting money that you have all kinds of different velocities going on in there. Any reasonably priced ECU doesn't tune from port to port, they tune bank to bank and rely on little or no variance in port flow and velocity from side to side to average injector pulses etc. I can't see a dual plane intake really working there. !

Agreed! :SNSign: BUT...good luck fitting one under the hood...I vote for an xcellerator or a TorkerII, they're a lot shorter single planes and work well with megasquirt.

 

[Is1BadFord]

Yeppers!

Mine will use the Victor Jr style...I was even considering a Parker style lol. But for most people who are looking at hood clearance as an issue, either of the above intakes would work great.

My motor's also going to be in the 500+hp range...sooo =)

 

[jbuening]

A few more EFI reference sites for throttle bodies

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products/Information/throttleBodiesLSX.asp

http://www.auto-nomics.com/cgi-bin/showresults?q=everything

 

[gonzothegreat]

The separation wall isn't really the issue I'm thinking. With a single plane intake, you have a large open plenum that all the SIMILAR sized/shaped runners draw from. The key there is that tuning for each runner is similar. No odd twists and bends from one bank to the other. With a dual plane, airflow to each bank is different. Not necessarily a different amount, but I'm betting money that you have all kinds of different velocities going on in there. Any reasonably priced ECU doesn't tune from port to port, they tune bank to bank and rely on little or no variance in port flow and velocity from side to side to average injector pulses etc. I can't see a dual plane intake really working there.

You can buy a nice Victor Jr. styled single plane off Ebay for in the 150$ range if you really want to drill it yourself. These intakes are very uniform at the port area, and some already have a pad where injectors can be drilled (often this is for nitrous, but it's nice for us EFI guys). Your dual plane is going to make drilling and installing injectors a real pain, not to mention the tuning headaches later. Plus, a Performer RPM isn't the best flowing intake going right now. Even an air gap offers substantial increases in that dpt, along with other benefits.

My advice? Go with the predrilled Victor Jr. Injector bungs are about 60$ for eight, then the cost of having them epoxied/welded (I wouldn't use epoxy btw) makes the 299$ price tag worth it. The fuel rail isn't that difficult to make, and even if you couldn't make them the rails from many other companies will fit as port spacing is port spacing on a SBF. You're saving yourself mass headaches, and not really spending much more money than you would have any other way.

Oh, as for a Super Victor...the Victor Jr's are making upwards of 600hp on quite a few SBF's I've read about, even more on occasion (go to www.massfloefi.com, they're making over 800hp from what I understand). You'd need one wild as all hell combo to need a Super Victor =).

Hope this helps!

it does help, thanks buddy

 

[gonzothegreat]

A few more EFI reference sites for throttle bodies

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products/Information/throttleBodiesLSX.asp

price tag $1000

 

[ForceFed70]

for my car i'd originally decided to run a megasquirt, actually built the computer, made a harness, installed it all in the car and had issues with the computer.

now i'm putting a 5.0 mass air system on the car. a much better solution in my opinion.

just some advice from someone who's been down that road.

I'm sorry to hear that the megasquirt wasn't working for you.

So far I've been having great luck with my megasquirt EFI conversion. The '70 already starts and idles alot better than it did with the old holley double-pumper. That's not to say I didn't have some problems... a worn out ignition switch really had me chasing my tail for a while there...

If you or anyone else ever needs some help with a megasquirt install, I'd be glad to help.
Here's a link to my Megasquirt writeup: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=593406

 

[Is1BadFord]

price tag $1000

http://www.ptrsds.com/manifolds .htm

Here's one for 465$, not sure if it comes with Throttle sensor and IAC or not. Scroll down to the bottom btw.

After reading your main post, I looked into MegaSquirt quite a bit more last night. All I knew was it was speed density, which was something I didn't want. After reading BottleFed70's write up, and reading around some more, I decided to price it out. Even having the ECU and other electronics prebuilt, it knocked 1000$ off my budget for the fuel injection conversion. This puts it at just over 2000$, but that includes the fuel system from tank to fuel rails, as well as all spark control. I'm actually going to look into the EDIS system today, and see if it isn't less expensive than a distributor/coil setup =). I know it can make good power!

I'm still a little concerned with speed density + my .620"+ and 292dgr solid roller cam on a 331ci motor, but I think once I get it situated, I'll be able to tune it out, or someone might be able to help me tune it out anyhow =p.

Good luck with your project, let us know how it goes =)